Paxi
Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
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- Mar 4, 2017
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Poch or Rogers will be next United manager, we will finish 8-10 and Ole will get sacked its as simple as that. If not now, (which should be) then at the end of the season.
Look at his PL record. It speaks for it self. Anyone who tries to downplay it as massive moron. Poch just reached the end of the cycle with Spurs just like Klopp did with Dortmund.I think its irrelevant whether Poch bought the players or not. Whats more important is that he got them playing good attacking football while spending (net) considerably less than other clubs.
His Spurs side challenged for a title and reached a CL final (where they were the better team), achievements which one would scarcely believe to be possible in 2014 when he was hired.
Spurs have improved their squad, profile and standing in the league because of him. One cant hail the players when Spurs win and fire the manager when the team loses. He's one of the best coaches in the world and theres no doubt about it.
However, his demeanor strongly suggests that he needs a break. He will definitely have a job by summer 2020. I highly doubt we are smart or brave enough to fire Ole and hire him in the summer.
If so then why has Ole achieved more points (10) over nearly a full year of football with a weaker squad than Spurs?Poch did well at Espanol initially as pointed out by a poster in the know. Did very well for Southampton and did extremely well for Spurs. It is a no brainer as Poch is in a different stratosphere in managerial ability to Ole. Different planet. We're just incompetent and dithering to pull the trigger and do what's right.
Because it was the end of the road for poch at spurs as I explained that happens in football. Lest we forget how Ole did with a newly promoted side and shortly after in the Championship. If Ole were to get sacked now you think anyone would be on the phone to his agent from the top two tiers of English league? Now ask the same question for Poch.If so then why has Ole achieved more points (10) over nearly a full year of football with a weaker squad than Spurs?
So the last year can be excused for Pochettino (the fairest side by side comparison) but Ole taking over an already doomed, terrible Cardiff side is definitive proof that he is a bad manager?Because it was the end of the road for poch at spurs as I explained that happens in football. Lest we forget how Ole did with a newly promoted side and shortly after in the Championship. If Ole were to get sacked now you think anyone would be on the phone to his agent from the top two tiers of English league? Now ask the same question for Poch.
No Poch got sacked and rightly so. The thing is Poch had 6 successful years in England. How many has Ole got. Id struggling to call Ole's tenures in England as underwhelming - that's being polite, in fact.So the last year can be excused for Pochettino (the fairest side by side comparison) but Ole taking over an already doomed, terrible Cardiff side is definitive proof that he is a bad manager?
But that's the problem, you're talking about a manager being in a 'different stratosphere' of ability yet you've got barely any real comparison.No Poch got sacked and rightly so. The thing is Poch had 6 successful years in England. How many has Ole got. Id struggling to call Ole's tenures in England as underwhelming - that's being polite, in fact.
Who they are and what they did in the past is exactly what makes them the manager they are now. It’s naive to ignore this especially when it’s the reason Jose currently just got a job. End of the day Ole is just basics and I doubt your not even impressed about hard work squad harmony.Come on man. No matter how badly you want to believe that or how many times you repeat it does not make it any more true. Its not like there is conflicting reports on the matter or this is just hearsay from dubious sources.
Poch himself said this: “I am not in charge and I know nothing about the situation of my players. I am only coaching them and trying to get the best from them. Sell, buy players, sign contract, not sign contract – I think it is not in my hands, it’s in the club’s hands and [chairman] Daniel Levy. The club need to change my title and description. Of course I am the boss deciding the strategic play, but in another area I don’t know. Today, I feel like I am the coach.” Can it get any more clear than that?
Yeah we have done for the past 6 years. The rebuild really should have started with Moyes, but he failed miserably in that. Then came LvG and Jose and for whatever reason they ignored all the obvious signs that this was a long term project that had to be done carefully and strategically with long term planning, but both of them was so caught up in their own ego they failed. LvG had his head to far up his own arse with his whole philosophy nonsense and Jose as the instant success merchant he is failed because he tried just that and then had a meltdown when things did not go his way. What is clearly not working is changing managers every one-two years either
Moyes got sacked because he took the champions to 7th and it was clear as day he had lost the dressing room. To be fair though, Moyes had an "impossible" job and i think the only ones who could have followed Fergie would have been Jose, Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti
LvG got sacked because he did worse in his second season than he did in his first
Jose got sacked because he had a full meltdown. If he had acted like an adult he would still be managing us
Despite the results being pretty arse in the league (16 points in 12 matches is fecking terrible) there are some positive signs as well. We are harder working, squad seems happier and more harmonious than it has in a while, transfers both ways have been good and young players are getting plenty of chances. Every manager that has achieved something of note in the league has had time to do so. Some do it faster than others, but that often depends on where they start. Pep won the league his second year and Klopp (if they pull it off) will win in his fourth year. The difference here is not the quality of the managers, but rather that the City team Pep inherited was vastly superior to the Liverpool squad Klopp took over so naturally it would take more time to get them up to standard
And just for the record. If it was Poch we hired last December and not Ole and they had identical results my stance would be exactly the same. Who they are and what they have done in the past means almost nothing. Simply because i think its ridiculously unfair to expect anyone to bring us back to the top with only one preseason and one window
And by then Poch will be in Madrid, Rodgers will be playing CL football with a more exciting project, Allegri will be at Arsenal, leaving us Emery but the club will decide to go with Steve Bruce because he's a club legend.Poch or Rogers will be next United manager, we will finish 8-10 and Ole will get sacked its as simple as that. If not now, (which should be) then at the end of the season.
Highly likely. We missed out on Jose when Sir Alex Ferguson retired and unless we move quickly we will miss out on Pochettino as well.Why are we so unlucky? We always seem a step behind. Why did Spurs sack Poch right now? What if they waited until end of March? He may well have been our next manager. Now we will stick with Ole and probably end up midtable and Poch will get hired by another club before the end of the season and we will be stuck as usual.
Regarding the first point, you can’t criticise him for others failings. Plenty of managers have been better resourced and achieved less. The bulk of United’s success in the PL has been at a time before there were 4 or 5 teams potentially capable of winning the league (and often it was one, or at best two). I wouldn’t use that to criticise Fergie. You can only compete against what’s in front of you.I hear what you're saying and this seems to be the common narrative but Spurs only achieved what they achieved in a time when United, Arsenal and Chelsea have been going through major transition. All things considered, Spurs would have still been the 5th or 6th best team in the league if the other clubs hadn't dropped the ball.
Also, all the players Pochettino 'brought through' were there when he joined. He had a slight clear out and didn't have the money to spend so he had no option to trust the likes of Kane, Ali and Dier. He's got lucky with a couple of them but the rest aren't much to shout about.
The only reason I think Rodgers is a better fit than Pochettino is because of the experience he has in a title run-in. Moyes had a similar profile to Pochettino (most people are forgetting this) and he was handed a title winning side that were certainly not on the decline. We all know how that turned out.
If you've won titles you know what it takes to win titles and you know how to deal with key situations that happen throughout the season. I'd even be happy to bet that Rodgers wins the PL, or equivalent before Pochettino does. I have a feeling he's going to really struggle in his next role if it's at a big club with big expectations.
Its not completely irrelevant, but Poch doing what he did at Spurs is no guarantee he would do well here. Apples and oranges really. Regarding Jose, i am pretty confident that will not end well at Spurs. Not for him and not for the club.Who they are and what they did in the past is exactly what makes them the manager they are now. It’s naive to ignore this especially when it’s the reason Jose currently just got a job. End of the day Ole is just basics and I doubt your not even impressed about hard work squad harmony.
According to the internet, Woodward tapped up Poch last year but snubbed him and here we are with Ole. I want Ole to succeed too and think we'd be foolish to sack him at this time unless structural changes are made as well.Pochettino is a very good manager. The Tifo video of him and comparing his end with Klopps end at Dortmund is fascinating to watch. People really need to watch it, to understand how things fell off at Spurs.
Ole deserves his chance but the problem is, he will be scrutinised even more with Poch available. I just want my club to be winning again, so with Ole or Poch, I don't care. But if Ole doesn't get us top 4 at the end of the season and there's no real sign of progress, he needs to go. But in the meantime, incompetent Ed needs to have sounded out Poch and tapped up Marco Rose. So if Ole needs replacing, it would be one of these two, hopefully Rose.
The internet eh? That source of all truth.According to the internet, Woodward tapped up Poch last year but snubbed him and here we are with Ole. I want Ole to succeed too and think we'd be foolish to sack him at this time unless structural changes are made as well.
My guess is we'll keep Ole until the end of the season or we get close to relegation, whichever comes first. Poch will go to PSG or RM, and we'll either stick with Ole or hire whoever wants the job.
There is no comparison to behave. One is one of the best managers in the country the other is not. If Ole was so good, wouldn't at least a Championship club picked him up after Cardiff or even a league one Club? Instead he went back to obscurity, whereas Poch managed a top club for 5 seasons and basically made them into a solid top 4 side. Night and day difference.But that's the problem, you're talking about a manager being in a 'different stratosphere' of ability yet you've got barely any real comparison.
Points wise Solskjaer has us 4th over his time in charge which is seen as some kind of miracle with Poch at Spurs.
You don't know that he wasn't offered a post, you're basing that on pure conjecture. Fact is Cardiff was a mess. He tried to play football there when they were crying out for a Warnock or Dyche. We can use that experience to knock him forever it seems.There is no comparison to behave. One is one of the best managers in the country the other is not. If Ole was so good, wouldn't at least a Championship club picked him up after Cardiff or even a league one Club? Instead he went back to obscurity, whereas Poch managed a top club for 5 seasons and basically made them into a solid top 4 side. Night and day difference.
That was the year before.The internet eh? That source of all truth.
Fact is, we never approached Poch as we were on that great run which ended in the PSG win.By that time Poch signed a contract extension,the board went with Ole as permanent which in turn culminated in the cluster feck of a season's end
No. Consistently winning the league season on season with that expectation to do so and every team playing you is a cup final means you have more experience at what it takes to win than someone who gets a medal for finishing in the top 4.So winning a league title with Celtic is a bigger achievement than consistently finishing top 4,in the most competitive league in the world,competing against teams that are outspending you season after season??Wow....As for his struggles this season,Jurgen Klopp finished 13th in his final season at Dortmund.Unfortunately Liverpool didn’t come to the conclusion that he’s rubbish because he finished 13th....
For me, I am just on the cusp of saying stick with OGS, but if I HAD to, Rodgers all day every day. He is a good manager, with a good tactical sense and he always seems to get the fans on his side too.If we had a straight up choice between Pochettino and Rodgers who would people choose ?
He was given free reigns at Cardiff. He signed a bunch a shite players, had them playing shit football with shit tactics that subsequently got them relegated. Instead of sacking him like any other relegated club would have, they let him have a go in the championship, which was a total flecking disaster. It might be conjecture but I'd wager it's very close to the truth.You don't know that he wasn't offered a post, you're basing that on pure conjecture. Fact is Cardiff was a mess. He tried to play football there when they were crying out for a Warnock or Dyche. We can use that experience to knock him forever it seems.
No Poch got sacked and rightly so. The thing is Poch had 6 successful years in England. How many has Ole got. Id struggling to call Ole's tenures in England as underwhelming - that's being polite, in fact.
He made a very poor decision to go to Cardiff and that has tarnished him. Clubs will obviously always go for the 'proven' record. If his first job in the PL was at an up and coming Southampton side like Poch his career might have taken a completely different path, equally if Poch had started at a terrible Cardiff side we might never have heard of him again.There is no comparison to behave. One is one of the best managers in the country the other is not. If Ole was so good, wouldn't at least a Championship club picked him up after Cardiff or even a league one Club? Instead he went back to obscurity, whereas Poch managed a top club for 5 seasons and basically made them into a solid top 4 side. Night and day difference.
One the cusp of what exactly? 5 wins out of 6 mostly against minnows?You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.
This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.
No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.
Shall we make a side by side comparison between the two clubs in regards to expectation and status, as well as resources? By the time he was let go, it was expected that Spurs at the very least finish top 4 on a yearly basis, and at the very least qualify from the CL group stage. Now look back at the expectations at that club when he took over, and there's your miracle.But that's the problem, you're talking about a manager being in a 'different stratosphere' of ability yet you've got barely any real comparison.
Points wise Solskjaer has us 4th over his time in charge which is seen as some kind of miracle with Poch at Spurs.
Over the last year Ole out performed Poch? Did Ole reach any of the cup finals let alone a CL final or am I missing something?He made a very poor decision to go to Cardiff and that has tarnished him. Clubs will obviously always go for the 'proven' record. If his first job in the PL was at an up and coming Southampton side like Poch his career might have taken a completely different path, equally if Poch had started at a terrible Cardiff side we might never have heard of him again.
Over the last year with both at similar level clubs (although Spurs nearly everyone would agree have a better squad), same level of competition, Solskjaer has outperformed Poch so to say he's in 'a different stratosphere' doesn't add up.
No you're not missing anything you're just ignoring the PL (10 point difference) and trying to be clever with the CL results (2 lucky results vs Ole's 1 against PSG). Let's forget the waste of time final.Over the last year Ole out performed Poch? Did Ole reach any of the cup finals let alone a CL final or am I missing something?
Yeah and you're just ignoring 5 previous season Poch had.No you're not missing anything you're just ignoring the PL (10 point difference) and trying to be clever with the CL results (2 lucky results vs Ole's 1 against PSG). Let's forget the waste of time final.
No i'm comparing the two over the same period as per the post you replied to .Yeah and you're just ignoring 5 previous season Poch had.
I don't agree with this unless you mean it will take two years to challenge for the title. To get this team to finish 3rd or 4th it shouldn't take that long even with Ole. After this summer's business we are now in a position whereby just two inspired signings plus a veteran back up striker would see us becoming the best of the rest after City and Pool.You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.
This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.
No matter who takes over will need 2 to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.
What are you on about? We have been awful tactically, the squad is shite granted but we should be beating the likes of Newcastle. We are 9 points off top 4 ffs. Two good games and we are on the cuspYou need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.
This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.
No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.
Ole is one month away from completing a full year managing United.You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.
This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.
No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.
Just to clarify, some of his more favoured squad members are (were) Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen and Kane - all of which were first team players when he arrived.Spurs were on the road to ruin when Poch went there. They were not up and coming at all. Far from it. The year before, they had sold Bale for record money and blown it all on duds. They had big earners willing to sit out and collect their paychecks, Adebayor ring any bells? They were full of flops who came on big money. Paulinho, Soldado, Lamela.
He got rid of all the big earners & players who didn't want to fight, brought in potential on a shoestring budget and got to work coaching them day in, day out to fulfill their potential.
Tactical battles usually takes place when we face other top teams with top managers. Our results against big teams is testament that the tactics is spot on. We're anything but technically awful. We just lack quality to open up lower teams which has nothing to do with tactics.What are you on about? We have been awful tactically, the squad is shite granted but we should be beating the likes of Newcastle. We are 9 points off top 4 ffs. Two good games and we are on the cusp
Its this sort of short sighted and reactionary BS what landed Ole the job. If the club had waited till the end of the season I'm not so sure he would have got the job.
I wasn't arguing that he got rid of the squad completely. Lamela & Kane might have been there to begin with, but they weren't main players. The person i was responding to said ''He took an up and coming squad and cemented them in the top 4 at the expense of us and/or Arsenal and Liverpool, but that was about as much about us being shite as them being brilliant.''Just to clarify, some of his more favoured squad members are (were) Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen and Kane - all of which were first team players when he arrived.
In his first season, he actually ended up with 5 points less than the car-crash season with AVB and Sherwood where we got beaten comprehensively (5 or 6 goals) by most of the top 4 sides.
I get that Man United fans are suddenly going to gloss over stuff if they want to convince everyone that it's a good idea to go for him, but don't try and rewrite history.