United's rebuild has not even started and won't start any time soon and here's why

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by fastwalker, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. Oct 14, 2019
    #81

    AllezLesDiables Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,748
    That appointment was a contingency of Klopp’s appointment. Klopp wanted to deal with a similar structure that he had in Dortmund.
  2. Oct 14, 2019
    #82

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    20,324
    So Klopp's appointment has nothing to do with Edwards?

    As a poster just mentioned Guardiola and Klopp would not have selected their current clubs without having Serriano and Bergestain and Edwards in place.
  3. Oct 14, 2019
    #83

    AllezLesDiables Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,748
    No, Edwards becoming DoF was tied into Klopp’s appointment
  4. Oct 14, 2019
    #84

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    20,324
    Any links? Odd thing to depend on when Edwards was never a DoF before. Klopp wanting DoF is a fair request but I don't see why he wanted only Edwards who was part of the committee which did poor job.
  5. Oct 14, 2019
    #85

    Borussin Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    218
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund
    But Edwards did not get that promotion until 1 year after Kloppo joined Liverpool. Before then he was working alongside Ian Ayre I think his name was, but he was leaving, so Edwards got promoted, which was something Klopp was very happy to have happen, as he'd at that point worked with him for 1 year and trusted him.

    Before then, he didn't know him, so it wasn't tied into his appointment.

    I am sure Klopp was given assurances how transfers would work though. The difference with Klopp and Rodgers is that Klopp is 100% used to working with a sporting director. Rodgers was not, and didn't want to, which is why Liverpool ended up with that mad transfer comittee, to appease Rodgers. When Klopp arrived, he was more than happy to work how he was used to working - with a director, rather than a comittee.
  6. Oct 15, 2019
    #86

    Lentwood Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    West Didsbury, Manchester
    Have to take issue with this because it really highlights one of our primary issues post SAF - we seem to believe that just having the right man sat in the dugout is enough

    Klopp and Pep didn’t rebuild Liverpool and City at all. To use an analogy, imagine Formula 1. Pep and Klopp are great drivers (Hamilton and Leclerc) but they can only do what they do because they are in the best cars (Mercedes and Ferrari) - and for them to be in the best cars requires a fantastic team of engineers, analysts and tacticians

    Sure you could put them in the Lotus or the Toro Rosso and they would still be good drivers. But they wouldn’t win anything.

    Ive said it before and I’ll keep saying this - we really need to get over this Cult of the Manager fast. They come and go but the success or failure of a club can’t be (and isn’t) solely in their hands
  7. Oct 15, 2019
    #87

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    4,677
    Location:
    Ireland
    Klopp re-built Liverpool, Pep Re-built City

    But not without the money that the owners supplied to them.
  8. Oct 15, 2019
    #88

    Infra-red Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,981
    Location:
    left wing
    I don't think anyone really believes that this is going anywhere. This latest "rebuild" is simply part of a series of rebuilds that have been initiated every 2 or so years since Ferguson retired.

    In a year's time we'll likely have a new manager, who will want his own players, and with no DoF to ensure even a modicum of continuity, many of the players bought in the preceding 2 years will probably find themselves sidelined.

    We are in a state of perpetual "rebuilds/transition phases" for the foreseeable.
  9. Oct 15, 2019
    #89

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    51,278
    United's rebuild cannot start unless we've got a competent board who can handle a high staff turnover. We need somebody who get rid of the deadwood while concurrently replace such deadwood with good quality players. That would reduce complacency, it would maximise the money we can get out of unwanted players and it will give the message across that we mean business. Who will ever take us seriously when we insist to keep someone like Jones for nearly a decade?
  10. Oct 15, 2019
    #90

    dev1l Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    7,478
    The rebuild has one major problem.... Not enough cash available. The club is busy trying to cut costs so less cash is available. During summer a reporter claimed that there was only 100 million available (net). And in the end we spent around 70m net.
  11. Oct 15, 2019
    #91

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    51,278
    It is possible to rebuild the squad without spending the outrageous amount of money City spent. However that requires a huge restructuring which include

    a- A top quality football CEO who knows his stuff and isn't constantly taken to the cleaners by players, agents and clubs
    b- A top quality DOF and scouting team who is knowledgeable about world football and can spot a bargain from miles away. We currently have Ole who knows about foreign leagues as much as Rooney know about nuclear science
    c- A manager whose tactics and man management skills allows him to maximise the potential of the team rather then hinder it.

    Once we've got that then we can handle a high staff turnover. That means that deadwood will be sold quickly and for a decent fee, new players are brought in the moment we spot the need for them, the salary bill is kept low while each player will be on his toes cause one mistake might cost him his career at top level.
  12. Oct 15, 2019
    #93

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    51,278
    That's an issue but its not that terrible either. Imagine if we had a top system in place and we ended up with the following transfers

    DC: Pavard 35m
    RB: AWB- 50m
    Midfield: Rabiot and Ramsey - free
    RW: Bergwijn - 40m
    LW: James - 15m
    Stk: Icardi (loan)

    We would be flying.

    Instead we've got a manager who has a poor grasp of players from other football leagues and an incompetent CEO who takes ages to conclude a deal.
  13. Oct 15, 2019
    #94

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    4,677
    Location:
    Ireland
    I agree, but I cannot see Woodward standing down for anyone soon. We need to start restructuring throughout and badly need a DOF who is given full control of transfers and football matters.
  14. Oct 15, 2019
    #95

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,402
    Agree.Ridiculous to say that they aren’t even trying to rebuild the club....but they need the right manager to be a part of that process.Our current manager is obviously woefully inequipped to rebuild the team...
  15. Oct 15, 2019
    #96

    JoaquinJoaquin Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    7,644


    The excuses starting already
  16. Oct 15, 2019
    #97

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    51,278
    If we don't spend anything in January or we bring some relic from Juventus dustbin then Ole's future is pretty much signed.
  17. Oct 15, 2019
    #98

    SirAF Ageist

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    31,294
    Predictable, but to be fair it IS difficult to do good business in January. Not impossible, but very difficult.
  18. Oct 15, 2019
    #99

    Jonno Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,560
    Location:
    Preston, Lancashire
    No, I disagree with that. Hodgson had the same tools Klopp had, but he wasn't up to the task of re-building Liverpool. Klopp re-built Liverpool. Pep transformed City from being a top 4 teams to a dominant winning machine.

    We have the resources, we have the platform, but we don't have the right manager in charge.
  19. Oct 15, 2019

    Infra-red Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,981
    Location:
    left wing
    He's probably a dead man walking already. The club will presumably wish to avoid relegation and so a striker will probably come in. New manager will then be given £70m-£100m in the summer.
  20. Oct 15, 2019

    dev1l Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    7,478
    We might spend 250 million next summer IF we sell Pogba for 150...
  21. Oct 15, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Location:
    Fred | 2019/20 Performances
    Go for players with clauses. Roca, Partey.
  22. Oct 15, 2019

    Infra-red Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,981
    Location:
    left wing
    You might be right. My guess is that £150m will prove to be rather optimistic with two years left on his deal.
  23. Oct 15, 2019

    dev1l Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    7,478
    True. More like 120m
  24. Oct 15, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    51,278
    If Ole's future is sealed then we will get Mandzukic at best.
  25. Oct 15, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,385
    There is no way Ole will be able to stick it out until January.
  26. Oct 15, 2019

    Lee565 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,009
    I would say even less than that with how Solskjear is using pogba so deep this season and playing under such awful management that has the team looking completely lost. We are basically shooting ourselves in the foot with how we are restricting pogba's ability to score and create assists in the final third.
  27. Oct 15, 2019

    dev1l Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    7,478
    We should then tell France to play him in final third too then
  28. Oct 15, 2019

    Noc-Z ffs

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    956
    Location:
    Fergie's Backyard.
    I agree and right wing has frustrated me for years! We also bought Sanchez and played him on the left when Martial had been on a good run there. All the while completely neglecting the right. Can't get my head round the logic. There's been a lack of proper planning for a long time. The neglect of the squad has been ridiculous and dates back to before Fergie retired. Should never have required a rebuild - the team should see a natural evolution but thats impossible now and maybe Fergie saw that.

    I actually think enough money has been invested post Fergie, but not wisely enough. Nowhere near it. So now we need to spend more. Far more.
  29. Oct 15, 2019

    tenpoless Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,183
    Location:
    *Teleports behind you*
    As long as We haven't found the right manager, We'll always be rebuilding. Every time a new manager comes in it's another rebuilding process.

    There's no clear plan in our recruitment. The new manager always want to get rid of players from the previous manager mainly due to the tactics they want to implement. So the rebuilding process has started a long time ago, it's just never finished and then another rebuilding comes in. We're on a loop.
  30. Oct 15, 2019

    Freeney New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    You are 100 procent correct.

    The same people who criticise the club for not spending enough are the same people who gets angry and cry about overspending on ”bad” players, when a few months before the signings they were writing and urging the club to buy (Fred, Lukaku, matic and so on).

    Hypocrites.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2019
  31. Oct 15, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,850
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    I'll remind you of that in February ;)
  32. Oct 15, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,850
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    Forget the Manager, whoever he is, the rebuild is going on quietly in the background, there's been a root'n'branch at Academy level, similarly with the Scouting network and no doubt in other areas of the club as well, Rome wasn't built in a day, calm yer Beanz.
  33. Oct 15, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,385
    Please do.
  34. Oct 15, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,385
    6 year rebuild? Wasn't even that broke in the first place. Some how they have managed to ruin a championship winning club.
  35. Oct 15, 2019

    Russky14 New Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    33
    The logic on Sanchez full stop was the Galactico syndrome and shirt sales.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2019
  36. Oct 15, 2019

    lysglimt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,063
    Exactly - you need a good memory to find 10 january transfers over the last 3-4 seasons, who significantly improved their sides right away

    There were a few really good ones in 2018 (Van Dijk, Aubameyang, Laporte, Deulofeu, Moura), next to none in 2019 - Tielemans was an exception

    But it's pretty much a case of finding that one player who is in a club willing to let him go without being certain of getting a replacement in. For instance I am pretty certain that for instance Leicester won't let a player go in january - because they know they don't have to, and they feel they can reach the C.L if they keep the player.
  37. Oct 15, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,850
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    I will providing my Filofax doesn't let me down.
  38. Oct 15, 2019

    Antisocial Has a Sony home cinema

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    13,393
    Indeed it is - that’s part of the reason we needed a big window last summer... :mad:
  39. Oct 15, 2019

    momo83 Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2013
    Messages:
    605
    The qualm I have with comparing Ole to Klopp, besides the fact that it’s like comparing a £2 a night hostel to a 7 star hotel, is that while it did take Klopp 4 years to win a European Cup and launch a genuine title challenge, throughout those years there was still improvement. It’s not as if they stayed rubbish or became even worse and then suddenly one season played great football, got 97 points and won the European Cup.

    The point you said about 10 years is also true from the top. The new owners came in and set a 5 point mandate...
    1) Pay off the debt.
    2) Increase revenue and become a profit making club
    3) Attract the best players
    4) Develop a culture of winning
    5) Win trophies

    I remember when the Glazers took over there was no talk of any strategy. Privately they looked at it and thought let’s just milk this cash cow.