What is that, like c. 24k? Just under the average salary in the UK.
Universal Basic Income
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Absolute Tory nonsense. The number of people that would choose not to work for £1600 a month when they could continue to work, continue to get £1600 a month and be comfortable with disposable income will be small enough not to concern yourself with.
Those that do, let them worry about their own situation. You’re getting your money too.
I'm an economy noob, but if everyone got UBI, wouldn't everything just cost more?
Only if the government had to print money to pay for it.
What about supply/demand?
What? £1600 a month free of tax isn't enough to live on?
Yep, Civil Service for you. Underpaid and overworked
FixedYep, UK Civil Service for you. Underpaid and overworked
For the majority it's more than they get now. But I'd say most would use it as a top up and continue workinf
It’s not a simple as that. More people having money in this country and spending money creates jobs, wealth and security. A strong economy can strengthen the currency which makes importing cheaper.
Security means confidence in the market, if a company can sell more it means they can buy in bulk and negotiate better deals which brings their wholesale costs down which can then be passed on to the consumer.
No. Why would it?
I don't think it would work to be honest.
For £1600 after tax it would be a big drop off in salary for me but I'd still consider it. Maybe downsize my house, go mortgage free and just enjoy the free time.
I'm 33 and would likely retire at 40 if this came in............... I hope it does!!!!!
You'd lose masses of the workforce. Also, what incentive would kids have to learn skills and get in to employment if they were going to get enough money to live anyway?
For £1600 after tax it would be a big drop off in salary for me but I'd still consider it. Maybe downsize my house, go mortgage free and just enjoy the free time.
I'm 33 and would likely retire at 40 if this came in............... I hope it does!!!!!
You'd lose masses of the workforce. Also, what incentive would kids have to learn skills and get in to employment if they were going to get enough money to live anyway?
I mean, for my situation personally it would allow my wife to be at home with our kids more and I would be able to see them all more.
I’d happily take 1600 and keep doing my job as well.
It’s barely below the average salary for the UK. Surely every person earning the same or below would take it, which would be almost half the country.Why do people think it’s either UBI or work?
The point is that it’s both.
The point is that it’s both.
I just don’t get how the country could afford this - it would be like a massive increase in (non-means tested) benefits spending.
I understand even less how it could be used as a solution to jobs going due to AI - jobs going would mean less taxes being paid which means less money to spend. The benefits of AI would be for companies / shareholders, many of which won’t need to be based in the UK and therefore won’t pay tax here, or not much.
I understand even less how it could be used as a solution to jobs going due to AI - jobs going would mean less taxes being paid which means less money to spend. The benefits of AI would be for companies / shareholders, many of which won’t need to be based in the UK and therefore won’t pay tax here, or not much.
Wouldn't a reduced workforce drive up wages though, which would incentivize people to get back into work?
I'm confused; does UBI top you up to £1.6k if you earn less that that? i.e. say I get £1.4k month, would UBI top me up to £1.6k, so I'd get £200 untaxed?
It's a separate £1.6k tax free amount that has nothing to do with your salary. So whatever you earn, you earn + an additional £1.6k per month.
I think it's generated from increasing corporation tax, but not sure.
As an aside - I'm really shocked anyone would be against this.
The only downside is - we''ll see corporations raise their prices to mitigate the tax, and because they know consumers will have an extra £1.6k in their pocket. Just as they've been protecting their margins against rampant inflation and cost of living crisis.
it's enough to live on but most people don't want to live on 400 quid a week
That's mental, I'd be rich. Sign me up
Edit: By rich, I mean I'd be out of debt.
I’m broadly “for” UBI as a general concept. Couple of points though;
* it would be interesting to get a poll here. If UBI was brought in, would you;
1) stop working
2) reduce your hours/go part-time
3) continue as-is
* second point is that UBI is a massive shift from the norm. By bringing in UBI, are we tacitly accepting the failures and limitations of free market economics and indeed - capitalism? If so, should that not be addressed more directly in terms of wealth distribution etc?
* it would be interesting to get a poll here. If UBI was brought in, would you;
1) stop working
2) reduce your hours/go part-time
3) continue as-is
* second point is that UBI is a massive shift from the norm. By bringing in UBI, are we tacitly accepting the failures and limitations of free market economics and indeed - capitalism? If so, should that not be addressed more directly in terms of wealth distribution etc?
didn't realise wages were so shit in the UK now
I'm too used to Australia prices
My rent is more than that.
That’s my utilities sorted and nothing more
Is this really affordable for everyone?
I don't know how much money goes into means testing and all the infrastructure behind it, but surely its not ~47 million people getting £1.6k * 12 = £902bn a year.
I based that on everyone in the UK aged 18 or over getting it (https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...d Wales (17.3 million,aged 60 years and over) - is that correct?
I don't know how much money goes into means testing and all the infrastructure behind it, but surely its not ~47 million people getting £1.6k * 12 = £902bn a year.
I based that on everyone in the UK aged 18 or over getting it (https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...d Wales (17.3 million,aged 60 years and over) - is that correct?
What do they pay out in esa/dla/universal credit etc etc. That will all stop. So we should only be considering net cost.
Not everyone lives in London?
Holy shit. Really?! Do you live with a load of animals that need 24/7 tropical temperatures?
Yep..its more than my wife earns. She could easily drop down to a 3 day week for example and have a lot better work life balance
It's frustrating, some people even write that they understand and then proceed as if they don't anyway.
I agree, the issues that bedevil 'the working poor' which is assumed what this is aimed at, go beyond assuring income streams. Why can't they be paid a living wage now? That leads to more questions than answers. The truth is however somewhere down the road, the advances in AI, the changes needed to save the planet, etc. will mean less people working, but it won't necessarily mean more leisure time and the necessity, and the ability, and pride in 'earning your keep' cannot be lost.
Way back in the 70's when Youth unemployment was beginning to make its present felt, the government (somewhat in panic it must be said) turned to the idea of encouraging young people, who were out of secondary education, but not able or willing to enter further or higher education and with out a job, or training, to take up places on YOP's Schemes (Youth Opportunities Programmes). These schemes were basically to keep kids off the street, but were supposed to give them experience of the world of work, e.g. arriving on time, following instructions, and learning what they could about anything they were involved with. However, there was no official training, even at times no H&S and no pay, just 'work experience'.
Eventually (after NTI) these schemes were overtaken by the Youth Training Schemes (YTS), but the almost unique thing about these early attempts was they were nearly all about restoring the environment, e.g. cleaning out canals, planting trees, shrubs, etc, cleaning up graffiti, and for a while in places where these programmes ran, the local environment did improve and ultimately it led to better schemes being developed with local community involvement high on the list. Sadly no proper local records were kept of whether progression into employment for post 16's was really achieved, also there were some horrific accidents reported and accusations of 'slave labour' abounded, which made the government look elsewhere and they came up with YTS,
Is it possible that something like this could return, but with proper aims and objectives, H&S and other safeguards and with £1600 per month wages. Perhaps no kids involved this time, but adults...well just a thought!
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Well, if everyone could afford, let's say, a rental apartment then the owner would just push up the price, no?
It will be good for the building trades, gardeners , mechanics etc as they can take the 400 pound a week and do a few days here and there for cash to top up the money.
Seeing as we’re getting by ok on our current income, an extra £3200 per month for me/my wife would mean we have so much money we literally wouldn’t know what to do with it all. I’m generally positive about UBI but that seems intuitively a bit wrong.
Same. I mentioned my wife dropping days a few posts up but I don't see anyway I'd continue a 5 day week either. Why would I?
When we have billionaires jetting in to space for shits and giggles, I don’t think the masses would have much to feel guilty about over an extra £1600.
By the time you convert to dollars and then take away how much more everything costs in Australia, I’m sure it works out reasonably similar.didn't realise wages were so shit in the UK now
I'm too used to Australia prices
Most of our living costs aren't predicated on this. There would certainly be inflation in several sectors.