What are you on about. This is all on Ten Haag. He is Ten Haags old goalkeeper. I struggle to see why the glaziers get the blame or the scouts but Ten Haag gets away with it. Its a disgrace from Ten Haag. There is a reason why no other top managers bought there old players. Did Klopp buy all the Dortmund players? I think Pep has bought one of his old players in his whole career. But Ten Haag just gets all his old trash and doesn't even know they are sht. Madness
Fairly mainstream opinion : Onana isn’t Fabrice Ondoa, or very good
- Thread starter Plant0x84
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For those that remember when City got their first ball playing keeper, we’re currently in the Claudio Bravonana era.
Look mate you can do stats all you like but the fact of the matter is we are not very good and Onana has a lot to do.
Maybe. In defence of Everton they really dont have the funding we do do they? I really feel for Onana but he is a professional GK and has money we can all dream of and I really dont have that much symphaty for him.
There are GKs on the market we can get from 5 to 15 mil so thats that
Who's allowing him to do that? That shit should've stopped after dropping 100m on Antony. Murtough apparently has a veto on all transfers, this is absolutely on him too.
Why is that so confusing?
It’ll be like a shooting gallery at the funfair ….half the City team will win a goldfish.
Agreed. But its more on Ten Haag. Murtoughs veto comes from a financial/business perspective. He doesnt know how good a player is. He relies on the scouts/manager to say. 'Hey this guy is awesome and worth x amount.' He then squares it financially and says yes/no. The Scouts get their information from watching games and analytics. But Ten Haag has the Grade A information on him. If the scouts/manager and CEO are in a room discussing a player who's information would hold more value? The ex manager every time.
Post-Shot XG plus or minus takes into account the quality of the shots Onana is facing and the quality of his shot stopping and keeping those opportunities out. It's a measure of his shot stopping performance calibrated for the hand he's been dealt by a leaky defense. In this he is 15th in the Prem, both in absolute terms and on a per 90 basis. This is getting close to gutter-level stuff.
You can use the volume of shots he is facing as an indictment of the defense or midfield, but by Post-Shot XG he is still doing quite poorly when he is presented with a shot to save. Simply pointing to the number of shots he has saved does not absolve him of his underperformance in this regard, especially when the other facets of his game that might still make him a net positive have yet to take full effect.
are you meant to be replying to me?We had two more capable keepers, although one Dean Henderson has injury issues and he’s an outspoken Knob End, the other Mateo Kovar who will probably end up the Goalkeeper of the year in the bundersliga, for me not keeping Kovar was one of the worst mistakes in recent united transfer history, when this guy goes on to be the new Petr Cech and they want £80m for him, you better hope we had a buy back clause in that contract, Onana is not in the same conversation!
Stating the obvious, but having more shots at your defence would lead me to assume the volume affects the mind and abilities, leading to worse performances.... anyway I'm out, I'm not actually arguing for or against Onana but this is clearly the "shit on Onana thread" so I'll leave you all to it....
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/saves
Here is the list of saves for everyone. He’s faced less saves than Allison. Less saves than the Tottenham keeper.
Some of your stats are very unfair on the other keepers. Martinez for example has played 25% less games. Pope has played a game less as well.
So we have conceded less shots than Liverpool. Roughly less per game than Martinez. Slightly more a game than Newcastle. Much less than West Ham.
The stats at the moment put us in line with a lot of clubs chasing top four. Liverpool/Villa/Newcastle/Chelsea/Tottenham.
At most it is a 0.5 shots per game difference between the first choice keepers at those clubs.
And Onana is the only one who has made massive routine errors.
It's an assumption. I'm not sure I've seen anything to bear it out. The flip side argument is made all of the time. When a goalkeeper has not had much to do all game and is suddenly called into action the "rustiness" or inactivity leads people to assume expected lower performance due to concentration levels and alertness not being at the highest.
I'm not necessarily trying to bash Onana either, as I think he, more than most keepers, has facets to his game that could perhaps warrant accepting a slightly lower level of shot stopping performance. I just think presenting shots saved in that manner as some kind of slam dunk defense of him is facile.
Bournemouth (19th) and Sheffield United (20th) both have positive Post-Shot xG +/-. Their goalkeepers are also 1st and 2nd on the list of "most saves this season."
I can't find any "shots conceded" stat but it's a safe guess that the teams at the bottom of the table are conceding lots of chances. So this strongly suggests that you can concede lost of chances and not suck at your job.
He's not good is he? Can see his United career being very short as things stand.
Saying that we can't do a City and just bin him like they did with Bravo.
Saying that we can't do a City and just bin him like they did with Bravo.
Are we agreeing? I think I agree with everything you've said. I just don't know if I would consider this enough data to make any strong statements on the volume of shots faced vs. shot stopping performance hypothesis.
I will say that when we get to the point where we are comparing the Manchester United keeper to bottom of the table keepers, something has gone seriously wrong.
In my humblest of opinions, I believe most people only wanted him or saw him during his performance in the CL finals. As usual our management probably heard Pep talking highly of a player and ran for him to “trump” City.
I remember after the finals Pep saying something along the lines that they didn’t have a plan for Onana and I thought to myself we are going to spend stupid money on him.
I remember after the finals Pep saying something along the lines that they didn’t have a plan for Onana and I thought to myself we are going to spend stupid money on him.
Disagree. There is no doubt that at least 3 recent goals conceded were purely down to terrible goalkeeping technique and/or lack of focus.
I'm not arguing that we should 100% drop him as I hope he increased in confidence/form. But those were howlers regardless of our defensive problems.
Of course ten hag has to also take blame for being very unimaginative with his targets but this is not a new thing at our club, our scouting and data analyst network is dreadful, we constantly just go for the lazy, unimaginative, flavour of the month from fellaini, to matic, to rojo, di maria, Maguire, ronaldo, sancho, casimero, sanchez and half of the ajax side that played under ten hag.
Just seen the highlights and the Jensen shot was in the middle of the goal and he had such a weak hand yet again. This is the so called sacrifice to have a goalie that can play out from the back. There are so many good goalkeepers in the Premier League, how can we end up paying £50m for a player that clearly isn’t that amazing.
And why is the manager having to pick all his old players? What signings are united not making, are they getting all top targets?
This idea that our manager picking signings is his fault is laughable. Pep only manages at clubs that know what they are doing so all he has to do is coach the teams.
Man United is a broken club wheee our managers have to manage a ridiculous amount of issues before they even get onto the training pitch.
I expected him to produce a few "howlers" here and there but as with everyone else thought that this would be mitigated by what he brings to the team during the build up.
What's worrying for me is he seems to struggle with the basics. Can't put it down to confidence either as he seems full of it (in a good way) but yeah I do worry that's something that can't be coached out of him.
What's worrying for me is he seems to struggle with the basics. Can't put it down to confidence either as he seems full of it (in a good way) but yeah I do worry that's something that can't be coached out of him.
Get rid take a hit on the transfer fee and sign Diogo Costa from Porto. Who we should of signed in the summer
People went overboard about DDG last season. He’d of saved a lot, if not most of the goals Onana has let in. I wasn’t looking to push DDG out the door, it was clearly that he became one of the scapegoats.
BUT.Onana hasn’t played with a full defence yet and he’s come into an unsettled team. I’d give him time to settle in and find his feet.
Still firmly in his corner. Letting De Gea go was the right move, don't listen to the idiots. Onana needs to cut out these 3 or 4 bad errors he's made and we as a team need to improve hugely to accentuate Onana's positives and minimise his negatives.
It's 50/50. Murtough is a football guy and he should be seeing that we didn't get value for the money spent on Antony. This season should've been different and the manager shouldn't have been allowed to pick all of the big transfers again.
Should have gone for Raya or done some scouting.
I keep reading this and as an opposition fan I don't get it. ETH signs players who are clearly his choice and the idea that he is at fault for their underperformance is laughable? I'm not on the wind up, I genuinely don't understand.
Dont try to understand United fans. It makes no sense
He’s absolutely fecking terrible. Probably the worst keeper I’ve seen in nearly 40 years of supporting the club.
This, ten hag is having to put out fires like sancho and ronaldo mess or trying to move on the unmovable in players like Maguire and martial because of our awful directors not doing a competent job, ten hag is clearly not good at the recruitment process himself but we kinda forget this is kind of new territory to him because he didn't have to spend time on it at ajax, the club should have been proactive in setting up a structure to get the best from him instead of basically relying on him to run everything behind the scenes from installing a philosophy from top to bottom at the club, recruitment and training facilities etc..
Bizarrely a lot of posters on here seem to think that ETH is the second coming and will not attribute any blame to him for the diabolical on-field state of the team.
He’s not very good at the in game tactical side of things either.
Why can’t people just call a spade a spade?
I think it's especially baffling as he's being contrasted with Pep...
...who famously replaced Hart with Bravo (a former Barca player) and then replaced Bravo with Ederson. Pep is very much involved in signing players... as virtually every Manager is. He also doesn't get every one of his targets, once again, like all Managers.
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Its not 50/50 at all. You want Murtough to trust the Manager or not? Ten Haag is telling him that Antony was a good signing even now. Whats he supposed to do. Call bullsht and ban him from signing anyone because his player judgement is fking sht? The day he does that then he will need to sack him
Bayindir isn’t ready so says ETH so it could be Heaton in goal
I’m genuinely not understanding the heat he’s getting for the goal - the forward got a good contact inside 10yrs of goal and it got a deflection that took it further from Obama’s original reach.
This is a different issue. A manager should be involved in transfers in/out. But the club should have its own long terms targets and players who fit the clubs long term plans.
When managers join a club ,quite often they do like to bring in players they’ve worked with to help them settle and have players they can rely on.
With ETH, most of his signings were doing well last season when the team was playing in well. The entire team is struggling, not just ETH players, this happens to even the best teams that confidence is sapped from everybody. To suggest his signings are now all a flop is very short sighted.
Then you factor in all the clubs issues that aren’t necessarily all ETH fault and one has to ask how anybody could reasonably expect United to be anything other then a mess.
If he does not improve significantly in the next game and onwards then he has to be benched and if that does not improve him, then he should be let go next summer, no need to give him too much time to come good, he should be doing much better in everything (shot stopping, ball distribution, claiming crosses, coming of his line, reflexes, etc...)