"Up to 11 players now want to leave United after becoming disillusioned with life at the club."

[Buster15]

I have wanted him gone because I felt that he was not good enough but this also puts the whole thing in a different light. He simply did not have the strength to drop some players like Rashford. He should have. I hope RR drops anyone who is not following his instructions and not putting in an effort. Be it Ronaldo or anyone else.

Definitely.
Tuchal at Chelsea has done the right thing by dropping Lukaku for speaking out. And Lukaku has done the right thing by apologising.
Hopefully Rangnick has the character to do the same.
One thing I detest more than cheating is player power.
No body is bigger than Manchester United and the players have to understand that.

 

[Red Dreams]

Definitely.
Tuchal at Chelsea has done the right thing by dropping Lukaku for speaking out. And Lukaku has done the right thing by apologising.
Hopefully Rangnick has the character to do the same.
One thing I detest more than cheating is player power.
No body is bigger than Manchester United and the players have to understand that.

I trust Ralf.
He is trying his best to turn around years of mismanagement.
Too many players have got used to an easy life drawing huge pay.

Get rid.

Play the kids if he has to.

 

[DEdwards]

all of us - get rid
the United board - give all 11 new contracts

Agreed, but this is the mentality within the Club that we are stuck with for years to come.

 

[caid]

I feel like every manager comes in talking about how excited they are to work with so many talented players and implement their system and then 6 months later they look a decade older and want to be rid of half the squad. I feel like this will be useful experience for Rangnick moving forward as to how the long term manager is faring.

As to this story i'm fairly positive we'd love to sell the overwhelming majority of the 11 players but their wage demands have scuppered any chance at a deal. Even leaving on a free all of them will be on lower wages elsewhere, they're clearly too stupid to recognise we dont give a shit they're unhappy and wish they'd move the feck on.

 

[90 + 5min]

My agenda? We all knew that these absolute fecking wastes of space had zero intention of signing new contracts and they should have been sold in the summer on that basis alone, and that's before we even get into their shitty attitude and complete disrespect for the club and the fans, blaming those entitled twats is given. But if you don't think Solskjaer shouldn't shoulder some of the blame for the current situation we find ourselves in, when it was painfully obvious we needed a clear out in the summer, then I don't really know what to say? They should have gone, at bargain bin prices, get their wages off the books and get shut of them and their negativity, and I'm saying this as someone who backed Solskjaer until the West Ham cup game.

Solskjaer should get blame for couple of things. No one is blameless. One of those was trusting the players and their characters in longer run. You can't give them a finger because they will eventually take the whole hand. I agree about throwing out some players that just spread negativity around the club.

It just sounded like it was / is Solskjaer fault that we have players who don't care in the team. We need to put blame where it should be.

 

[romufc]

There is only one player in this United team I will defend and that is Greenwood.

Everyone else, can go if they want, if they re disillusioned, they need to get back to reality and get out of the club.

None of them deserve the wage or the shirt.

That includes Ronaldo, we don't pay for reputations, his quality on the pitch is poor.

 

[Ixion]

Ole doesn't take all the blame, it's a combination since Fergie and Gill left. Woodward, Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole have all contributed as well as lots of players having a bad influence. The low standards, the sloppy play, the bad personalities, the insane wages, inbalances in the squad etc. It has all come about as a combination of all of the above, and allowing players to hold power over the manager by backing them above LVG & Mourinho while they leak things and undermine them I don't think has helped at all.

We need a new LVG to gut the squad and implement their style...just without his downsides like being blinded by big signings like Di Maria/Falcao and actually develop entertaining football.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Typical. All this group want to do is make excuses and blame the manager. I really hope we have a proper clear out.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I will say though that I'll be very glad if this all comes to a head now and these players start leaving in January. Let's try and clear as much of this bullshit as we can before a permanent manager is appointed, so the first six months of his time here aren't spent trying to deal with the same thing.

If I was the permanent manager what I'd ideally want to take over is a much thinner squad, filled out with youngsters if need be, consisting of players with the mental and physical capacity to play a higher intensity brand of football, and with space for more quality additions. Even if it's still short on quality, fine, just give me a squad suited to my brand of football with as little dead weight as possible.

Frankly Rangnick can turn the rest of this season into a death march for all I care. Put the most demands possible on them and let those who are too old, slow, weak or lazy drop out.

I read this as a death match like out of WWE and was all for it. Disappointed to re-read it as a death march.

 

[Trex]

I get the feeling the squad isn't happy that Ole the nice guy is gone and the fact that we have replaced him with a more disciplined manager. They could all F**k off, we treat this guys like they are treble winners or something when their average level is barely top four, we have bottom half EPL quality starting here and its not just in quality but mentality.

 

[SER19]

What's the motivation for players who are losers to perform, when 4 successive managers at this club have been thrown under the bus and fans ate it up every time. They're not going to win league, they're still being paid, they live in complete bubbles while pr teams monitor everything for them.

Every coach in the league is a good coach. What do the players want, johann cruyff back to life, with fergie? Think about it. Their day to day involves some training with one of about 100 people in the world who could manage them

How bad could it possibly be? To justify what we see. Lazy, weak, half assed cowardice.

They're losers addicted to losing and blaming others and soon no decent manager in the world will touch this cesspit and we'll enter Liverpools 90s years

 

[SER19]

I get the feeling the squad isn't happy that Ole the nice guy is gone and the fact that we have replaced him with a more disciplined manager. They could all F**k off, we treat this guys like they are treble winners or something when their average level is barely top four, we have bottom half EPL quality starting here and its not just in quality but mentality.

They're the least successful United squad in living memory. This summer marks 5 years without a trophy. So many of these guys have never won anything, for a reason.

 

[Ixion]

I get the feeling the squad isn't happy that Ole the nice guy is gone and the fact that we have replaced him with a more disciplined manager.

One of the tweets/reports today said the training ground felt "Oppressive" was the one that stood out to me. I'm pretty sure they're not behind barbwire being forced to train, what a stupid way to describe it, some of the players live on a different planet.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Effort may be less but output hasn’t been less for two and half years. Rashford has more goals and assists in that period than Mane has. Mane continues to live off his 18/19 form.

Give me Mane over Rashford every day of the week. Not even a comparison.

 

[Trex]

What's the motivation for players who are losers to perform, when 4 successive managers at this club have been thrown under the bus and fans ate it up every time. They're not going to win league, they're still being paid, they live in complete bubbles while pr teams monitor everything for them.

Every coach in the league is a good coach. What do the players want, johann cruyff back to life, with fergie? Think about it. Their day to day involves some training with one of about 100 people in the world who could manage them

How bad could it possibly be? To justify what we see. Lazy, weak, half assed cowardice.

They're losers addicted to losing and blaming others and soon no decent manager in the world will touch this cesspit and we'll enter Liverpools 90s years

United need to stop this blame the coach mentality especially now we are going in the direction of hiring a manager who would be proven to play with attacking impetus, the players need to take responsibilty for their actions especially the home grown ones who feel protected and entitled.

 

[jasT1981]

Bunch of overpaid divas. Last week it was because they had to go home in the dark after training.

What it seems like is 'player power' has been stopped and Ralf is in charge, and they can't handle it and want out.

 

[GoldanoGraham]

Will be interesting to see which players do and who doesn’t pipe up soon backing the new management…..all be very quiet on the social media front since Monday’s debacle…

 

[SER19]

Bunch of overpaid divas. Last week it was because they had to go home in the dark after training.

What it seems like is 'player power' has been stopped and Ralf is in charge, and they can't handle it and want out.

100% hope he gets even tougher now. See who's up to it and weed out the Everton players

 

[Oranges038]

As great as they were, none of them have coaching badges or the desire to become coaches. It’s long hours and a thankless task when the team aren’t winning, look at how Carrick and McKenna have been treated.

They also know nothing of modern systems and coaching techniques. Part of the reason Scholes lasted about 4 games at Oldham was because he would stand in training and tell the lads to do this: (pings a 70 yard pass to the forwards feet) and they would just stare at him and explain that they couldn’t do that and Scholes’ response was “why not?”.

Scholes has his coaching badges though.

Did he not leave because he was fed a crock of shit before he took the job, the lack of money, no hot water in the showers, buses not showing up amongst other things and in his words, an interfering owners telling him not to play certain players?

And not because the players couldn't play a 70 yard pass.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

We still have Phelan though. Wish the club would bring in a few explayers to help behind the scenes. Rio teaching the defenders, scholes teaching the midfielders etc. Bayern have done that for years. AC Milan did it when they had their successful period under ancelotti. Have people in around the club who understand the dna of the club and the standards that are required.

Yeah I never understood why we never brought Rio or Vida in to help the central defence, or even Evra to try and mentor the fullbacks.

 

[Polar]

Is that supposed to make us feel better. AWB, Maguire, Rashford all been dire

Many players suffers from the fact we are a very unbalanced team. Their (AWB, Maguire, Rashford) basic skills aren’t our greatest concern. They’re basically good enough to bring us back in the top-4 fight.

 

[acnumber9]

By bizarre you mean defaulting back to what Ole did when he realised our players are in no shape to play how he wants?

We should allow him to get rid of all the overpaid divas in the squad even if it means we miss out on top 4.

Yes, I consider it bizarre to revert to tactics that didn’t work to the extent the previous manager got sacked.

 

[Polar]

it's a combination since Fergie and Gill left.

I also blame them a little bit

 

[crossy1686]

Scholes has his coaching badges though.

Did he not leave because he was fed a crock of shit before he took the job, the lack of money, no hot water in the showers, buses not showing up amongst other things and in his words, an interfering owners telling him not to play certain players?

And not because the players couldn't play a 70 yard pass.

Well yes, Scholes massively underestimated the level of league 1/2 football, that was why he left.

 

[wolvored]

Yeah, because they look good as assets on the balance sheet. A lot of these guys were handed stupid contracts purely to preserve their market value.

Ultimately the coach / manager with the club and a director of football if there is one, should identify well in advance which players need to be shipped out and replaced. If you have a player that has barely played or contributed for years like Lingard, Jones, Mata, Bailly etc. chances are they won't be missed, they should be gone and those spots in the squad taken up by a youth player or a signing that has the potential to do better.

Thats where it doesnt make sense with this board. Why preserve market value if you dont intend to sell anyway? We never sell anyone on. Pogba could have been sold last season, now he will leave on a free.

 

[acnumber9]

The fact that you can’t run a training session the day after a match is well known. They’re so strict about enforced rest they aren’t even allowed a game of golf! Likewise the need to devote sessions immediately before a match to specific preparations for that match. We could argue the toss about 6, 7, 8 days training focussed on implementing a completely different way of playing but it’s a trivial amount regardless.

I’m not going to pretend we’ve been anything other than shit under Rangnick so far but there’s a tonne of mitigating factors. Not least the obvious long-term player discontent festering under the surface that’s the subject of this thread. We know he’s not a long term solution but it would be ridiculously knee jerk to show him the door at this early stage.

No training at all? No tactics discussed?

There were mitigating factors when Carrick was in charge too but the performances and results were better. We shouldn’t have to dismiss poor results and performances at this stage otherwise what was the point in change?

I know he’s not going to get sacked. That doesn’t mean that we’re better off for him being here. It’s relatively early days and he could leave me with egg on my face. That doesn’t change what we see in front of us right now and he isn’t managing the situation effectively and playing players not suited to his formation or playing them out of position is making the matter worse. That’s on him and him alone.

 

[acnumber9]

I stand by my point.

This fanbase is the pits!

No wonder at all that we have the kind of players that we do.

Let’s get rid of a manager who has been here for 6 weeks and hasn’t got us to the top of the league yet. What a failure

Only 5 days until we can pour our love out for the players we repeatedly sing about who are shite and don’t deserve to wear the shirt.

Having the kind of players we do is on the management. I’m not sure how me expecting a team that comprises the players we have to do better leads to them not being able compete with Wolves, Norwich and Newcastle.

There’s a vast middle ground between expecting a league challenge and excepting better than we’ve seen.

 

[Bastian]

The fact that you can’t run a training session the day after a match is well known. They’re so strict about enforced rest they aren’t even allowed a game of golf! Likewise the need to devote sessions immediately before a match to specific preparations for that match. We could argue the toss about 6, 7, 8 days training focussed on implementing a completely different way of playing but it’s a trivial amount regardless.

I’m not going to pretend we’ve been anything other than shit under Rangnick so far but there’s a tonne of mitigating factors. Not least the obvious long-term player discontent festering under the surface that’s the subject of this thread. We know he’s not a long term solution but it would be ridiculously knee jerk to show him the door at this early stage.

Yes, there are a number of mitigating factors. Absolutely. Mitten has been on about the wholesale changes to the coaching staff that Rangnick wanted to avoid. And the main factor for me, is the lack of training time which is requiring Rangnick to be some inspirational leader without implementing his vision. This month thankfully will have ample training time between matches, covid-free allowing. The discontent within the squad is obviously an issue, but that's where Rangnick needs to help himself and be ruthless. He's not got time for any indulgence. Hopefully there'll be a genuine cultural reset in that the players are just the players and the manager has the control. He's mentioned quite a few times that the squad is too big and hopefully we can start shifting players.

Those not committed and leaving on a free this summer shouldn't be in the group at all IMV. The only thing I disgree with in your take here, and others, is that he's not a long-term solution. He might be. He's only 63, highly ambitious and I doubt he walked into the job without at least hoping to stay longer, which he jokingly already suggested. If it's not ten Hag, I'd rather stick with Rangnick and continue (or begin) down this path of modernising our play and shifting all the players who cannot handle that for whatever reason.

 

[Springchat]

Crazy if true. But given recent performances I wouldn’t be disappointed if the whole lot wanted to go and we could start from scratch again.

If we do see some players walk who could be some good players to bring in?

 

[Desert Eagle]

No training at all? No tactics discussed?

There were mitigating factors when Carrick was in charge too but the performances and results were better. We shouldn’t have to dismiss poor results and performances at this stage otherwise what was the point in change?

I know he’s not going to get sacked. That doesn’t mean that we’re better off for him being here. It’s relatively early days and he could leave me with egg on my face. That doesn’t change what we see in front of us right now and he isn’t managing the situation effectively and playing players not suited to his formation or playing them out of position is making the matter worse. That’s on him and him alone.

Results have been the exact same. 4/6 under Carrick and 10/15 under Ralf and no I don't count the young boys game.

 

[acnumber9]

Give me Mane over Rashford every day of the week. Not even a comparison.

Well Mane has 5 years on Rashford and playing for a better manager so I would expect a more developed player.

 

[acnumber9]

Results have been the exact same. 4/6 under Carrick and 10/15 under Ralf and no I don't count the young boys game.

Well if you ignore a game sure. You’re also ignoring one of Carrick’s where an away win meant the Young Boys result didn’t matter. Also ignoring the comparative difficulty helps.

 

[Ixion]

Having the kind of players we do is on the management. I’m not sure how me expecting a team that comprises the players we have to do better leads to them not being able compete with Wolves, Norwich and Newcastle.

There’s a vast middle ground between expecting a league challenge and excepting better than we’ve seen.

Our players simply are unable to match a side like Wolves in possession and passing, we haven't trained or focused on that kind of play for a couple of years and we seem completely incapable of pressing so the pass circles round us. Ralf can tell them what to do but if they are scared of being in possession and not willing to press it's not going to go well. The other approach is to say who cares about possession and play like Mourinho and most fans hated that.

To improve our sloppy play, poor pressing, poor ball retention etc. will take months of training.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Having the kind of players we do is on the management. I’m not sure how me expecting a team that comprises the players we have to do better leads to them not being able compete with Wolves, Norwich and Newcastle.

There’s a vast middle ground between expecting a league challenge and excepting better than we’ve seen.

Let’s at least give him some time to see what happens, shall we? Seems more than fair as opposed to constantly backing the players who are the only consistent in the past 5/6/7 years.

The same players who cannot find their teammates after the manager has done everything he can do to influence the team.

I know where my support lies at this present time.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Well Mane has 5 years on Rashford and playing for a better manager so I would expect a more developed player.

In 5 years time Rashford won't even be in the Premier League if he carries on his current trajectory.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No training at all? No tactics discussed?

There were mitigating factors when Carrick was in charge too but the performances and results were better. We shouldn’t have to dismiss poor results and performances at this stage otherwise what was the point in change?

I know he’s not going to get sacked. That doesn’t mean that we’re better off for him being here. It’s relatively early days and he could leave me with egg on my face. That doesn’t change what we see in front of us right now and he isn’t managing the situation effectively and playing players not suited to his formation or playing them out of position is making the matter worse. That’s on him and him alone.

Carrick represented continuity. We could easily have got those same results/performances under Ole. We’ve seen it before. Often at our lowest ebb.

Once Carrick (and McKenna) moved on everything changed. And the players response to this change has so far not been good at all. The safety net of familiar, popular faces on the coaching team has been ripped away and heads have dropped as a result. Rangnick has already made some tough decisions that we didn’t see under Ole (dropping Rashford, Fred and Bruno after terrible performances) but there’s only so much he can do when the team is flat-lining, mentally, like it is right now. Especially when he’s trying to change the way we play. It might not be working but he’s tried a different formation and is obviously still working out the personnel to make it work (and if we have the personnel to make it work!)

I’m more than happy to reserve judgement. There’s only so much he can do in such a short space of time when we need a profound cultural reboot, on and off the pitch. Doing what Carrick did and applying minor tweaks to the approach under Ole was the easy option, with no long term upside.

 

[VanDeBank]

Because Jesse had a good spell at WHU the club increased his price, instead of just getting rid. It was obvious the change of scenery did him good and him coming back here he might relapse again.

Except he looked hungry as hell in his early cameos and did quite well in them.
His unhappiness is a direct result of his lack of minutes.

Anyone thinking we can just have a clear out is kidding themselves. Glazers care far more about money than football and they will not allow the club to lose money by getting rid of contracted over paid players at any price. Ole’s weak character created a tail wagging the dog syndrome allowing these players too much power.

Years of Club mismanagement at the very top has brought us to where we are now. Yes, we do need to get rid of the dozen or so bad apples but in truth this is likely to take years. I have total support for RR, but does the club? If allowed a completely free rein I believe Ralph, or someone with that level of professionalism and tactical experience/nous could get us back to where the fans want us to be within even a year or two. However, under the current regime, no manager will be given the freedom to make the decisions needed to put football before money.

We had a clear out when Van Gaal came in.
It's about cahones, not ownership.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Tweet

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[VP89]

Tweet

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Ah that's what he does (?)

 

[Oranges038]

Thats where it doesnt make sense with this board. Why preserve market value if you dont intend to sell anyway? We never sell anyone on. Pogba could have been sold last season, now he will leave on a free.

Makes no sense to me either, if they are of no use to you on the pitch they should be out the door.