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jojojo

JoJoJoJoJoJoJo
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A place for bits and pieces, in particular for things that us WSL novices might find useful to know, to understand the environment we’re joining. Hopefully it’ll develop into a cross between an archive of useful links, a chat and a FAQ thread. If you read a good article, or find a useful news site, or if you realise you’ve acquired some knowledge that might help or interest the rest of us, then you can post it here.

It’s not intended as an everything megathread. If you’ve got a topic, or an interview link or whatever that’s mostly about United and you think it needs a thread of its own, just create a new thread in here as you normally would.

Please continue to use the main football forum for discussion of women’s football matches not involving United, international football etc.

Incidentally, like everything else about us getting the sub-forum rolling, this thread title and the thread's aims will evolve as we do and the team does. If it's not working we'll change it.
 
Women's football - finance, budgets, wages etc
So, because I was talking to someone about it yesterday, and ended up with a Google hour today, I did a bit of digging and so I can give you.

The Financial FAQs of Life

To be a WSL1 team and meet all the commitments in terms of contract hours for players, additional staff, youth training, transport etc it’s estimated a club needs a minimum of around £500k/year. An FA subsidy is available to a maximum of £120k, this is designed to cover some of the costs of specialist staff (like a doctor during matches, a physio during training, a fulltime fitness coach) and similar commitments. Obviously the real costs vary from club to club – with things like the training ground, and the matchday stadium being major variables, in addition to the wages.

It's thought that City and Chelsea spend around £1m/year on their teams.

Contracts are generally short, two years is considered a significant commitment, so transfer fees are rare. If you’re looking to sign a top player or someone playing abroad you may have to factor relocation costs and a signing fee in there. Wages aren’t high enough to make things like family travel, house move and accommodation costs irrelevant.

Average attendances in WSL1 are around the 1000 mark. City are the best supported team, they get over 2000.

Some Championship clubs can meet the minimum licence conditions for that division by fundraising around £200k + FA subsidies of up to £60k. But it's tough, a lot of jobs previously done by volunteers are now required (by the FA) to be done by qualified paid staff.


What do the players earn?
In 2017/18, most WSL1 players were on semi-pro contracts, the majority earning under £20k/year, with a lot on less than £10k. The top players on fulltime pro contracts (basically the City, Chelsea, Arsenal squads and a smattering of senior players in other teams) were on around £30/40k+.

In terms of contract hours, WSL1 will go fulltime professional this year. Even so, a lot of players will still be on less than £20k. That’s less than the national average wage in the UK, so it’s mostly about love not money.

Being in the England women’s squad is a big deal, the FA have been paying about £25k/£35k year to a top group of players (about 30 of them) in addition to their club contracts. Some England players now also have sponsors, we're talking £5/10k extra there.

In other words - a top fulltime pro player, will now be on around £75k/year, about half of it coming from the club. However, most players outside the top teams will be earning £20k or less. Championship semi-pro players will get 5/10k, a couple of years ago it was closer to £2k. It's likely that United will pay fulltime contracts similar to WSL1 contracts from day one.

Historically a lot of top players, including our manager, supplemented their income by doing coaching jobs. A lot of the others had normal jobs outside football or were students. One of the many unknowns about the new structure is whether the advantages of going fulltime will outweigh the possible loss of experienced semi-pro players who might now be asked to take a pay cut or drop out of college to continue.

For context.
The wages are comparable to those paid to semi-pro players in the upper tiers of men's non-league football. Even with the new rules, an average WSL1 club will have a smaller budget than any team in the highest non-league division. Non-league teams expected to be in the hunt for promotion to the League (like Salford City who are in the top division of non-league, the fifth tier of English football) have much bigger wages budgets than teams like City /Chelsea.

Incidentally, it struck me when I was writing this that Phil Neville’s experience with Salford could actually be helping him understand the financial pressure on his national squad and the youngsters trying to get into it.
 
Class of 63 said:
Not sure where to put this but it maybe of interest to some.

'Laying the Foundations' (30 mins)

An exclusive documentary following the Girls u16 team during their FA Youth Cup campaign last season is on MUTV later on today 18:30, repeated @ 22:30
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Thanks. I think we need somewhere to post useful stuff like this and this is probably the best place. I'll rename the thread.
 
Came across these tweets.




So basically if we get into top two, we'll get promoted as I'm sure we can meet the criteria.

Also reading comments in social media, looks like many are hoping we fail. It's just the same with men's team! I hope the girls are tough and mentally prepared being Manchester United players.
 
RedPamie said:
Came across these tweets.




So basically if we get into top two, we'll get promoted as I'm sure we can meet the criteria.

Also reading comments in social media, looks like many are hoping we fail. It's just the same with men's team! I hope the girls are tough and mentally prepared being Manchester United players.
Click to expand...


That’s going to be interesting, as I’m not assuming we’ll be at the top places given the squad is so young.
 
Class of 63 said:
Really enjoyed watching 'Laying the Foundations', I got quite emotional towards the end :o
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Yep. They seemed like a really committed bunch - coaches and players, and a happy bunch. Some nice insights on the coaching side as well, like having them play boys teams on small pitches to speed up their one/two touch play.

Incidentally, for anyone with an online sub, the show is available on-demand as well as on the live schedule.
 
jojojo said:
Yep. They seemed like a really committed bunch - coaches and players, and a happy bunch. Some nice insights on the coaching side as well, like having them play boys teams on small pitches to speed up their one/two touch play.

Incidentally, for anyone with an online sub, the show is available on-demand as well as on the live schedule.
Click to expand...

I wasn't expecting too much because most of the documentaries for the reserve/youth teams over the years have been of poor quality, just thrown together, but that was interesting as you said on the coaching side.

I'm wracking my brain here trying to think where i'd know Jennie Swarbrick from, because to be brutally honest I hadn't paid too much attention to Womans football until it was announced United were setting up a team, and I don't think she was part of the squad announcement on the 13th on MUTV, maybe she's just got one of those faces :)
 
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Class of 63 said:
I wasn't expecting too much because most of the documentaries for the reserve/youth teams over the years have been of poor quality, just thrown together, but that was interesting as you said on the coaching side.

I'm wrecking my brain here trying to think where i'd know Jennie Swarbrick from, because to be brutally honest I hadn't paid too much attention to Womans football until it was announced United were setting up a team, and I don't think she was part of the squad announcement on the 13th on MUTV, maybe she's just got one of those faces :)
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I missed the programme. :(
Hopefully there's a replay?
 
Class of 63 said:
I wasn't expecting too much because most of the documentaries for the reserve/youth teams over the years have been of poor quality, just thrown together, but that was interesting as you said on the coaching side.

I'm wracking my brain here trying to think where i'd know Jennie Swarbrick from, because to be brutally honest I hadn't paid too much attention to Womans football until it was announced United were setting up a team, and I don't think she was part of the squad announcement on the 13th on MUTV, maybe she's just got one of those faces :)
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Jennie worked in the FA youth setup for a while so maybe she's appeared in the context of lads football as well.

Something that's come up occasionally in the articles about United and them closing the old women's team is the idea that it wasn't just about saving money. It was also that they didn't know what they were supposed to do with it.

A few years back, a PL youth coach told me that, for them, the women's team was, "like trying to run a Sunday League team," so they basically ignored it. I assumed that was a disparaging comment about standards, but maybe he meant it literally.

From the looks of that video on the girls team, United have now got experience of coaches taking it seriously at the youth level. Plus, there's an obvious professional structure for them to join in the WSL.

There's been a lot of pressure from the FA and the press etc, and the commercial possibilities are growing. But maybe it's also now more obvious to the club how it can be part of the club, just another team we run - not just a thing with a United badge on that they had to send money to.

Yes. I admit it. I've fallen for the United, "we wouldn't do it until we were ready to do it right," propoganda. :lol:
 
Grande said:
Suzy Wrack has done a great job of covering United’s women even before they had a team again - including visiting this place for material!
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Oh dear. Is she the journalist who attempted to get a sensible reply to a question on here, and got a trainwreck of a thread in reply? In which case, I'm impressed by her continued determination to educate United fans.
 
jojojo said:
Yes. I admit it. I've fallen for the United, "we wouldn't do it until we were ready to do it right," propoganda. :lol:
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:lol: me too.

But I'm not that naive to rule out the commercial drive behind United decision to enter women's football. Look at our major sponsors alone. Adidas, Chevrolet, Kohler. Im sure they are happy. More pics sent to fans with those logos. I can only imagine the number of social media engagements of the announcement!

United brand suddenly becoming more attractive to companies cater to women or want to expand their customer base.

Oh by the way, about broadcasting matters, does anyone know if United manage to do live matches from MUTV (in the event no other stations willing to do it. Will there be a fee for the opponents?
 
jojojo said:
Oh dear. Is she the journalist who attempted to get a sensible reply to a question on here, and got a trainwreck of a thread in reply? In which case, I'm impressed by her continued determination to educate United fans.
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Yes, she wanted to know more about the previous team, and if anyone could put her in contact with one of those players.

She was very impressive in not biting at any of the provocatory bait dangled in front of her by many.
 
jojojo said:
From the looks of that video on the girls team, United have now got experience of coaches taking it seriously at the youth level. Plus, there's an obvious professional structure for them to join in the WSL.

There's been a lot of pressure from the FA and the press etc, and the commercial possibilities are growing. But maybe it's also now more obvious to the club how it can be part of the club, just another team we run - not just a thing with a United badge on that they had to send money to.

Yes. I admit it. I've fallen for the United, "we wouldn't do it until we were ready to do it right," propoganda. :lol:
Click to expand...

Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but I was wondering if the club would, or are consider setting up a reserve or say a u19 team for those that are too old for the u16 team but aren't quite ready to step up into the first-team squad and there's a League in place already for them to play in to develop, or unlike the boys most 16/17 girls are ready to step up to be part of the first-team squad, and the rest are released to make way for the next group coming through.
 
Class of 63 said:
Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but I was wondering if the club would, or are consider setting up a reserve or say a u19 team for those that are too old for the u16 team but aren't quite ready to step up into the first-team squad and there's a League in place already for them to play in to develop, or unlike the boys most 16/17 girls are ready to step up to be part of the first-team squad, and the rest are released to make way for the next group coming through.
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I've not seen anything official on it. There is a FA "Development League" (split as a northern league and a southern league) that acts as a bridge, but we weren't in it last year, and I've not read anything to confirm that we're joining it this year.

I've read, but again nothing official or confirmed, that we already had a U18 team structure available, and that the U16s weren't just told to go and find new clubs after last season.

Maybe for now, the Foundation will carry on running it as an extension to the regional talent club. Whether we already have enough players at that level to join the league, or we'll stick to friendlies or something, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Like so much of this story :smirk:
 
RedPamie said:
But I'm not that naive to rule out the commercial drive behind United decision to enter women's football. Look at our major sponsors alone. Adidas, Chevrolet, Kohler. Im sure they are happy.
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I think the adverse PR was an issue for the club, and ultimately that's a commercial issue. The FA, the media, and I suspect some (potential) sponsors were probably making it hard to ignore, at least as a tick box on a checklist. I also think it opens up a route for some local or small companies to act as United sponsors or advertisers for the first time in years - though I think we'll be very selective about who.

But I do think we've gone past the tickbox bit. The work so far looks like we mean it, and that we mean it's our team. It's not a cash grant to an amateur club, or even the buyout of an existing semi-pro team. It's not a simple "throw some money at it" team either.

It feels like a team that belongs to United from day one - despite all those Liverpool recruits. It's a team for dreamers. Like I say, despite being a season ticket holder for the men's team, with all the cynicism that implies, it's a team that makes me feel happy about the club. The propoganda is working on me. For now.
 
jojojo said:
But I do think we've gone past the tickbox bit. The work so far looks like we mean it, and that we mean it's our team. It's not a cash grant to an amateur club, or even the buyout of an existing semi-pro team. It's not a simple "throw some money at it" team either.

It feels like a team that belongs to United from day one - despite all those Liverpool recruits. It's a team for dreamers. Like I say, despite being a season ticket holder for the men's team, with all the cynicism that implies, it's a team that makes me feel happy about the club. The propoganda is working on me. For now.
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I love how happy our former graduates signing for senior team now. I was surprised Katie Zelem chose us. But then we saw she seems happy and excited. I also like her story about her dad calling her when the news broke in May that United will have a senior women's team.

I think it's been emotional for some players and fans not just me! :devil:

Even those ex Liverpool players :lol: bits from them about couldn't turn down Manchester United, big club doing it properly, want to make history, etc. Other players from smaller clubs are downright giddy to be part of the team.

I guess the propaganda is working on many of us, players and fans!
 
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jojojo said:
I've not seen anything official on it. There is a FA "Development League" (split as a northern league and a southern league) that acts as a bridge, but we weren't in it last year, and I've not read anything to confirm that we're joining it this year.

I've read, but again nothing official or confirmed, that we already had a U18 team structure available, and that the U16s weren't just told to go and find new clubs after last season.

Maybe for now, the Foundation will carry on running it as an extension to the regional talent club. Whether we already have enough players at that level to join the league, or we'll stick to friendlies or something, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Like so much of this story :smirk:
Click to expand...

United have a very young first-team squad, but i'm interested to know what the average age of the other teams will be once the season starts, and if it's the same in both Leagues, based on absolutely nothing but i'd guess the girls feature(or are more likely to be developed physically to cope) in the first team sooner than boys of a similar age do(thinking 16-18), but maybe leave the game sooner(28-32)if they haven't reached the very top at club or International level, to have kids or a change of career perhaps, just can't imagine many journeymen, oops journeywomen going down the Leagues and still playing into their late 30's, though obviously there will be the odd one that does.

There's a good chance i'll be totally wrong about it, but we'll soon find out once they open the doors, or play in the League or Cup :lol:
 






Feels real, now that the club set the season/match day ticket price. :drool:

And I watched Laying The Foundation finally! So so emotional.
I was surprised I enjoyed it :) esp when they won against Liverpool. Also felt sadness that some girls who happened to be United fans had to go to rival clubs for their career (Like Izzy C)! The staff prepared them well, with nice facilities etc for them to get success with other teams. :o

I like the part about the girls having a match vs local boys team in cold rainy day in Manchester to what, challenge and test them!

But finally we have a senior women's team now. So so excited.
 
Class of 63 said:
£39 for a season ticket !? that's half a good night out :D
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I did the survey they sent out to some season ticket holders, I suggested £29 for the season ticket but I won't begrudge them the £39. Especially as it includes the cup matches. :D
 
I hope we get decent crowd this season. I wish I lived near Manchester lol. I'd buy a couple too at least!

@jojojo or other season ticket holders, do you guys see interest among fans/ST holders to get to the ground? Considering it's far (from what I read) and City got so many women's football fans hooked. I even saw in social media, some United fans going to city women's matches. I don't begrudge them tbh. It's not so black and white for some fans.
 
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