You might be right but think about this angle too; Donny knows how ETH systems work and what’s expected. He will be able to hit the ground running (no pun intended) whereas the others will play catch-up with what’s expected
Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch
- Thread starter VanDeBank
- Start date
Yeah, no questions there. I mean, he did play him a lot at Ajax.
(Btw: 'now that' should have been 'not what' in my post.)
True in principle, but I thought the idea advanced by many VDB apologists is that he needs a system and teammates on his wavelength. If that is the case it is a chicken and egg situation. Personally I have no idea if that is the idea or whether he just doesn't cut it (to date) which could be an easier explanation.
Both of these things can be true.
ETH rates Donny in his system.
ETH does not think Donny is good enough for United.
We have seen numerous examples over the years of good players in lesser teams following their managers to a big job because the manager trusts them and then ultimately not being up to the job. We saw it with Fellaini and Moyes and who can forget Brendan bringing wee Joe Allen to Liverpool. As a Welshman I love Joe Allen in ways that are not entirely healthy but I can quite clearly see he is not a true PL quality player.
I think it most likely that ETH will keep Donny around next season and he will be actively involved within the squad but in the longer term he will most likely be replaced by a better player and moved on as ETH can aim higher in the transfer market here than he could dream of at Ajax.
ETH rates Donny in his system.
ETH does not think Donny is good enough for United.
We have seen numerous examples over the years of good players in lesser teams following their managers to a big job because the manager trusts them and then ultimately not being up to the job. We saw it with Fellaini and Moyes and who can forget Brendan bringing wee Joe Allen to Liverpool. As a Welshman I love Joe Allen in ways that are not entirely healthy but I can quite clearly see he is not a true PL quality player.
I think it most likely that ETH will keep Donny around next season and he will be actively involved within the squad but in the longer term he will most likely be replaced by a better player and moved on as ETH can aim higher in the transfer market here than he could dream of at Ajax.
He's really not. He's OK at playing safe, short passes. Thats not the same as being great at short passing. His control is fine but nothing stand out.of all the things you can pick out you start with this? they are 2 things that he is excellent with.
You don't like him which is your choice, but you dont need to over exaggerate.
If short passing and ball control are two of his best attributes, then to be suitable for a top team you need to compare him to other players at top teams who rely heavily on their ball control and short passing game. He doesn't come close, and most of those players have more in their game in addition to that. VDB is more comparable to say Harry Winks than Paul Scholes, and top sides need to be aiming to have players like Paul Scholes, not Harry Winks.
He went from playing under ten hag to ole and then lampard, it's not wonder he has looked rubbish since leaving ten hag's set up
He could just be rubbish of course.
Forgot he existed. Out of sight out of mind. If Ten Hag turns him into a worthy starter for us I'll be incredibly impressed.
Good to see Frank playing him in his favoured position today.
Yes, it must be everybody else's fault expect the player.
From the best seat in the house for the darts to the best seat in the house for a PL game
I still stand by the idea that Sancho and Van de Beek needed to play close together on the pitch. Donny at LCM maybe with Sancho LW. They have a similar give and go, pass and move, combination style that could have worked well with Shaw on that left side.
Then we could have had Bruno at RCM with a runner (Rashford or Elanga) trying to get in behind. They would be a more direct attack.
Two contrasting style and maybe it doesn’t work on the same pitch but it kind of highlights how we have an odd collection of players who don’t really fit together as a whole.
Then we could have had Bruno at RCM with a runner (Rashford or Elanga) trying to get in behind. They would be a more direct attack.
Two contrasting style and maybe it doesn’t work on the same pitch but it kind of highlights how we have an odd collection of players who don’t really fit together as a whole.
He will get time under ETH. He will be amazing linking up with Sancho.
While ETH obviously rated him before, I somehow doubt how a player who has hardly played any football in the league for two seasons, will become an integral part of the squad all of a sudden.
Well it's not like any player improved under ole is it, even world class players have come here from working under good managers with defined system to then working with our average and past it managers.
It's interesting that United coaches were said to have doubted his ability to be "a United type player". Individual moments I would imagine.
He had been operating as an effective cog in a smooth running system for Ajax, and strikes me as a system player who was a fish out of water in teams who don't have one.
However he'd have no excuses if it didn't work out for him next season under ETH.
He had been operating as an effective cog in a smooth running system for Ajax, and strikes me as a system player who was a fish out of water in teams who don't have one.
However he'd have no excuses if it didn't work out for him next season under ETH.
It's not about improving, it's about showing a baseline of ability that says this guy can play for us. Or even that he can play PL football. Most of them have managed at least one of those things at some point regardless of the manager. There's also an element of personal responsibility, not continually hiding behind excuses. VDB has been rubbish from start to finish, here and at Everton.
He will not succeed here .. doesn't look like a player to me..
Hag will not be able to save his United career
Hag will not be able to save his United career
I think that Donny can work out for us, under his previous manager.
I'll actually be shocked if he doesn't make the most appearances for a midfielder under ETH next season.
I'll actually be shocked if he doesn't make the most appearances for a midfielder under ETH next season.
He wasn’t a regular starter under ETH at Ajax, was he? My memory of him (in CL games anyway) was coming off the bench when they needed a goal?
Probably not in the 88th minute every week though
He was. There was a period where he had to fight for his placd in the team but generally a starter.
‘Like a new signing’
Baffling statement and confidence in a player who has failed miserably in the PL so far.
I just don't get the desperation and belief for this lad. You'd think he had the talent of one of the best in the world the way some go on.
If he makes it here, great, if he doesn't I don't care. If his former boss doesn't manage to get a tune out of him in the PL, that will most certainly say it all.
If ETH wants to implement his system at United, playing VDB would surely helps.
Surely he will realise that this is not the Dutch league and we don't have a De Jong to carry the entire midfield. Donny is a passenger in all phases of play except the final third where he might pull a flick or 1-2 off, and we can't afford passengers.
Ok, cool. This is definitely good news for him. And I’ve always thought he was criminally underused during his time here, so this pleases me.
Why did he go to Everton again?
It seems insanely unlikely that ETH would go from regarding VDB as a key player at Ajax to a complete non-entity at United. Particularly in a context where having a player who has already worked with you for years will obviously be a help as the rest of the squad adjusts to what you want from them.
I would expect some significant gametime for VDB next season, if not as a starter them as a 12th man who gets regular gametime. Assuming VDB wants to stay, that is.
I would expect some significant gametime for VDB next season, if not as a starter them as a 12th man who gets regular gametime. Assuming VDB wants to stay, that is.
Player himself showed very little to justify any kind of excitmente from the fans point of view, however with ETH in there's always a chance he doesn't end up as a failure like Kagawa or Mkhitaryan before..
Player himself certainly have a point to prove and I'd bet he will raise his game like never before. Would be cool if he transforms himself into a Herrera rather than the two flops mentioned before.
Player himself certainly have a point to prove and I'd bet he will raise his game like never before. Would be cool if he transforms himself into a Herrera rather than the two flops mentioned before.
He has a groin issue and wont play against Liverpool.
Not sure ETH can save his United career. He is probably not suited or good enough
Another 90 minutes of prime bench warming in the bank, he feels right at home with Frankie. I think he is going to be in spectacular bench form for next season, should have all of his snacks and stuff sorted, plenty of jokes and discussion points for the rest of his mates in the invisible club.
He is injured.
sst, that doesn't fit the narrative some people have
Pretty silly comment
Watching some clips of Ten Hag's Ajax, and crazy how integral he used to be to that team. Like watching something from a parallel universe.
Either he is shit or he's unlucky as hell.
Maybe both.....
Maybe both.....
Well, I guess that's the debate. Is Klaassen integral to Ajax right now? 'cause he sure is found at the end of a lot of chances, at a similar (if not better rate) as VDB.
The only difference is VDB scored in a few CL knockouts.
Guus Til, is Feyenoord's top scorer, playing in a similar role and he's absolute crap and flopped at Spartak.
I think VDB is slightly better than Klaassen and will be useful to ETH next season, but I wouldn't expect his success to be recreated, as there is a pattern with similar types of players flopping abroad.
I guess the successful one is Wijnaldum, and he's actually quite rapid and can dribble.