VAR and Refs | General Discussion

[Yorke to Cole]

An awful decision, that again highlights the deficiencies of the officials.

I feel we have been on the wrong end of decisions over the past 2 seasons. Martial red card v Tottenham, McTominay v Tottenham, the hand ball in the FA cup , 2 goals disallowed v Burnley.


I would like to see the dark arts come back into our game, where we have players and management arguing the toss with officials. Like Ferguson used to do, in which he would get into the heads of the referee.

 

[Isotope]

I'm so glad VAR exist. It exposes how inept some of the referees are.

 

[90 + 5min]

The explanations given by the VAR officials to MOTD were ridiculous. “No clear evidence of the ball hitting Scamacca’s hand” and Antonio scored from a “second phase of play” after it hit his hand. The stupidest fecking thing about the Antonio handball was that he controlled the ball with his hand. It was a blatant deliberate handball. A free out, whether or not he scores.

They are just making up the rules as it goes depending on their mood.

Ridiculous that we in this gigantic industry can’t have mic on referees and video / mic from VAR room. People really wonder what is going on.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The explanations given by the VAR officials to MOTD were ridiculous. “No clear evidence of the ball hitting Scamacca’s hand” and Antonio scored from a “second phase of play” after it hit his hand. The stupidest fecking thing about the Antonio handball was that he controlled the ball with his hand. It was a blatant deliberate handball. A free out, whether or not he scores.

Did they explain how Dawson got a penalty for clotheslining Andreas?

I realise the ref had warned Andreas about holding, but for the actual penalty decision, the bloke did literally nothing and Dawson just ran into him.

 

[Gazautd18]

Did they explain how Dawson got a penalty for clotheslining Andreas?

I realise the ref had warned Andreas about holding, but for the actual penalty decision, the bloke did literally nothing and Dawson just ran into him.

Apparently because he was warned twice he "gave the ref a decision to make".... or something like that...

 

[Samid]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Out of shot? Those cameras literally had one player to focus on

 

[Andycoleno9]

The explanations given by the VAR officials to MOTD were ridiculous. “No clear evidence of the ball hitting Scamacca’s hand” and Antonio scored from a “second phase of play” after it hit his hand. The stupidest fecking thing about the Antonio handball was that he controlled the ball with his hand. It was a blatant deliberate handball. A free out, whether or not he scores.

Where do you find explanation for decisions? If you have link ......
Thank you

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Where do you find explanation for decisions? If you have link ......
Thank you

MOTD = Match of the day.
Probably on BBC iPlayer.

 

[sebsheep]

MOTD = Match of the day.
Probably on BBC iPlayer.

They also showed that it was a pretty obvious handball on the same show.

 

[alexthelion]

https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct


It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
• scores in the opponents' goal:
  • directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
  • immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

It's on the officials to interpret the time.

Didn't score immediately after the ball hit his arm, the goalie made a half save before Rashford put it in the net.

 

[Doracle]

The stupidity of the current handball rule in the Rashford scenario is emphasised by the following:

- If the keeper brings him down, it’s a penalty and the fact the ball brushed his arm is irrelevant;

- if he passes to another player who taps it in, the fact the ball brushed his arm is irrelevant;

- if Pickford actually successfully stops him so that Rashford has to go and collect the ball again and then scores, the fact the ball brushed his arm is irrelevant.

There’s no sensible reason why any of those three scenarios should result in a different outcome. It’s just a rule put in place by people who seemingly have little real understanding of the game. No fan wants goals like that to be ruled out.

 

[Gio]

The explanations given by the VAR officials to MOTD were ridiculous. “No clear evidence of the ball hitting Scamacca’s hand” and Antonio scored from a “second phase of play” after it hit his hand. The stupidest fecking thing about the Antonio handball was that he controlled the ball with his hand. It was a blatant deliberate handball. A free out, whether or not he scores.

That's the sort of bollocks that comes when when they retrofit rules to enable a VAR system of managing handballs.

Before they changed the rules, good referees used to judge it with some weighting given to the level of advantage gained from the handball. In effect what would have happened without the handball - is it exactly the same (i.e. the handball was irrelevant and unintentional) or has it changed the ball's direction? It's clear from all 3 cases that the handballs changed the course of the ball into the striker's path and enabled the goal. And by any traditional means of assessing them, should have been ruled out.

The spirit of the handball rule was always about striking the balance between, on one hand, preventing advantage gained through use of the arms and, on the other, not punishing players when they could do nothing about it. And because VAR can almost always tell if the ball was handled or not, they have changed the whole rule to focus on whether it was handled, rather than the issues of intent and advantage gained because these are judgement calls. In drifting away from the original purpose of the law, they end up having to justify ridiculous scenarios created by the rules around the deployment of VAR.

 

[Desert Eagle]

They are just making up the rules as it goes depending on their mood.

Ridiculous that we in this gigantic industry can’t have mic on referees and video / mic from VAR room. People really wonder what is going on.

Won't be because of corrupt gambling money. No chance

 

[norm87cro]

Ill be honest. Liverpool should have had a penalty but feck them

 

[arnie_ni]

The stupidity of the current handball rule in the Rashford scenario is emphasised by the following:

- If the keeper brings him down, it’s a penalty and the fact the ball brushed his arm is irrelevant;

- if he passes to another player who taps it in, the fact the ball brushed his arm is irrelevant;

- if Pickford actually successfully stops him so that Rashford has to go and collect the ball again and then scores, the fact the ball brushed his arm is irrelevant.

There’s no sensible reason why any of those three scenarios should result in a different outcome. It’s just a rule put in place by people who seemingly have little real understanding of the game. No fan wants goals like that to be ruled out.

This sums it up. I don't think the rule makers really understand the game. They mustn't have played. Seems to be no common sense in some rules.

 

[Mb194dc]

Handball is a mess only because the original idea is only deliberate handball should be penalised.

Then to stop players making themselves bigger for blocks etc, you get all the guidance about what deliberate handball is...

The guidance should be simplified and judgement used much more again.

 

[Anustart89]

Handball is a mess only because the original idea is only deliberate handball should be penalised.

Then to stop players making themselves bigger for blocks etc, you get all the guidance about what deliberate handball is...

The guidance should be simplified and judgement used much more again.

I think it was fairly fine having only deliberate handballs being punished, as long as that didn't just extend to "deliberately handling the ball", but also "handling the ball while deliberately making a movement that makes the body bigger", for example if someone did a deliberate star jump and someone walloped the ball at them I'd give a foul as well.

However, there was really no need to introduce "non-deliberate handball is an offense if a goal is scored immediately after", but once they fecked that up there really really really no reason to introduce "non-deliberate handball is an offense if a goal is scored by the same player that handled the ball immediately after", because that introduces situations like ours, where the exact same on-field offense changes depending on whether Rashford puts the ball in the net or whether he stops it at the goal line for Bruno to smash home.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think it was fairly fine having only deliberate handballs being punished, as long as that didn't just extend to "deliberately handling the ball", but also "handling the ball while deliberately making a movement that makes the body bigger", for example if someone did a deliberate star jump and someone walloped the ball at them I'd give a foul as well.

However, there was really no need to introduce "non-deliberate handball is an offense if a goal is scored immediately after", but once they fecked that up there really really really no reason to introduce "non-deliberate handball is an offense if a goal is scored by the same player that handled the ball immediately after", because that introduces situations like ours, where the exact same on-field offense changes depending on whether Rashford puts the ball in the net or whether he stops it at the goal line for Bruno to smash home.

The latest bollockology is 100% down to VAR. The whole unnatural shape thing applies to penalties but they’ve no obvious equivalent for a striker controlling a ball which bounces up and hits their hand. Technically, none of the three contentious decisions at the weekend involved an unnatural arm position. So using that same rationale none of them are a handball. But the people behind VAR can’t cope with the technology not being used to disallows goals when they know millions of people will be absolutely furious to see strikers handle the ball before a big goal (e.g. Henry vs Ireland)

They’re determined to “fix” an unfixable problem (because fixing stuff is what their technology is supposed to do) so the way the game is referee’d is getting more and more mangled. All to accomodate something we never needed in the first place. It’s absolutely infuriating.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

And yet more VAR bollox.

 

[Jeppers7]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...t-liverpool-soft-and-what-is-the-handball-law

I’ve never heard such rubbish. On the Antonio one....because the ref didn’t give it VAR can’t intervene? WTF. The whole point of VAR is to sort out the mess that referees make with their utter incompetence. Instead they bend rules around whatever narrative suits.

Unsuprisingly Gallagher feels ours was the correct decision. Shocker.

 

[Doracle]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...t-liverpool-soft-and-what-is-the-handball-law

I’ve never heard such rubbish. On the Antonio one....because the ref didn’t give it VAR can’t intervene? WTF. The whole point of VAR is to sort out the mess that referees make with their utter incompetence. Instead they bend rules around whatever narrative suits.

Unsuprisingly Gallagher feels ours was the correct decision. Shocker.

The wording of his explanation around the Antonio one is very confusing. I think he’s trying to say that the VAR deemed the handball wasn’t deliberate and then, because the goal wasn’t immediate, was correct to give the decision. He doesn’t seem to give a view on whether the handball was deliberate or not, which I would say is the more obvious error in the decision.

 

[Jeppers7]

The wording of his explanation around the Antonio one is very confusing. I think he’s trying to say that the VAR deemed the handball wasn’t deliberate and then, because the goal wasn’t immediate, was correct to give the decision. He doesn’t seem to give a view on whether the handball was deliberate or not, which I would say is the more obvious error in the decision.

Pathetic. Makes referees incompetence even worse.

 

[Samid]

Getting pathetic now.

 

[Drainy]

Pointless

 

[acnumber9]

It was being said in this thread how much better VAR is in other parts of Europe. If you needed anymore evidence to call bullshit on that here it is.

 

[arnie_ni]

I can understand the handball. Arm was by his side but he did lean into it for me.

However, the 2 footed lunge was as clear a red as you'll see.

Compare that to awbs red from last season for standing on someone's ankle. Totally mental.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I can understand the handball. Arm was by his side but he did lean into it for me.

However, the 2 footed lunge was as clear a red as you'll see.

Compare that to awbs red from last season for standing on someone's ankle. Totally mental.

It didn't even need VAR to call that, it was clear even from the wide TV angle in real time. I thought the ref was going to VAR just to be sure, but couldn't believe it was only a yellow.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can understand the handball. Arm was by his side but he did lean into it for me.

However, the 2 footed lunge was as clear a red as you'll see.

Compare that to awbs red from last season for standing on someone's ankle. Totally mental.

He leaned into it and he had plenty of time to get his arm out of the way. The whole “natural position” get out of jail card is about the ball being smashed at you from close range so you can’t avoid it.

 

[arnie_ni]

He leaned into it and he had plenty of time to get his arm out of the way. The whole “natural position” get out of jail card is about the ball being smashed at you from close range so you can’t avoid it.

Oh I agree, but I can see why a (bad) ref wouldn't give it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Oh I agree, but I can see why a (bad) ref wouldn't give it.

In the pre-VAR world the decision wouldn’t bother me at all. Split second, difficult decision.

Now we’re stuck with the stupid poxy system, slowing the game down and making us second guess celebrations, incorrect decisions like this are absolutely fecking infuriating. Which is another VAR downside, in addition to the others I just mentioned.

 

[Idxomer]

Chelsea getting away again without receiving a red card.

 

[arnie_ni]

Thought Newcastle should have had a pen tbh

 

[Rado_N]

That’s as clear a foul as you’ll see but VAR says no penalty.

 

[ROFLUTION]

All Saudis in the VAR booth I see

Ridiculous that there is no transparency about the system - one like this NEEDS explaining

 

[Rado_N]

And another one.

 

[arnie_ni]

That's a stonewall pen

 

[Pexbo]

Outrageous

 

[ha_rooney]

fecking useless

 

[Strats]

Its time for referees and VAR to explain their decisions.

The protecting of them all is sickening

 

[SER19]

The decisions across all games today are absolutely shocking. Every single game