VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season

[redshaw]

Henderson was fouled.

What's upsetting is the memory of De Gea being fouled but the goals stand, the narrative switches for that day that the keeper needs to be stronger.

If that was De Gea last night being fouled by Mateta in the exact same way I really don't think the goal would've been ruled out and if it was there'd be a weeks uproar about big bad United getting a decision against a plucky smaller club and something has to be done.

 

[WeePat]

I think if Hojlund does what Badiashile does it's a foul and rightly disallowed and if Badiashile does what Hojlund does your goal doesn't get disallowed.

Hojlund does have a quick glance at Henderson before jumping with him/into him, however people classify it. In basketball, you'd call that a box out, which is totally legal and good play, but in football, with how protected keepers are, it seems like a fair call. I'll be honest though, I don't know what the rules say about incidents like this. I'm just going off how they've called this kind of incident over the years.

That said, Arsenal do what Hojlund did deliberately every single and it's allowed every game. Half their goals this season have come from someone doing what Hojlund did.

 

[whitbyviking]

The disallowed goal was wrong. Henderson needs to be far stronger.

Agreed.

Hojlund looks at Henderson and moves in front of him where the ball will be contested and just jumps straight up. Doesn’t jump into him at all doesn’t even use his hands to jump. Henderson bounces off his hips.

It’s textbook challenging the keeper without fouling. As a keeper you are taught that is legal and you have to occupy the space to prevent being crowded out. When I played in goal that would have been a goal pretty much every time, even in Norway where there is no culture of challenging the keeper to put one on them. We had a Scottish ex international manager and he would have slaughtered me if I’d conceded that, he wouldn’t have even asked for a foul.

In my opinion Henderson messes up his starting position and is asking for the foul as soon as he goes up in the air. He knew he’d made a mistake.

I generally don’t think keepers are treated too softly either, it’s impossible to defend yourself when you are jumping with your hands extended up in the air so the slightest touch is enough to knock you off if you’re not prepared for it and the attacker is clearly challenging you and not the ball. This wasn’t one of those situations. Hojlund went out of his way to jump cleanly. It was a keeper mistake, and Henderson got away with it.

*had to edit this twice, Hojlund was autocorrected to Hopkins and then hound

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Henderson was fouled.

What's upsetting is the memory of De Gea being fouled but the goals stand, the narrative switches for that day that the keeper needs to be stronger.

If that was De Gea last night being fouled by Mateta in the exact same way I really don't think the goal would've been ruled out and if it was there'd be a weeks uproar about big bad United getting a decision against a plucky smaller club and something has to be done.

Like feck he was. Strikers are allowed to compete with the keeper in the air. Hojlund had his arms down by his side and didn’t jump in Henderson’s direction. Couldn’t do any more to make his challenge fair and legitimate.

 

[Lash]

Like feck he was. Strikers are allowed to compete with the keeper in the air. Hojlund had his arms down by his side and didn’t jump in Henderson’s direction. Couldn’t do any more to make his challenge fair and legitimate.

Is there not some part of the law though if you impede the keepers arms (albeit Hojlund did this very lightly), it's a foul? I feel like there is.

On an overall point, Gillet is fecking useless. This is coming from a disgruntled better, but how the feck did he not book Munoz? He seemed to let a lot of contact go unchecked until the Henderson incident and then suddenly it's an issue. He managed to take 5 mins to think about that issue before making a decision, but just waved away the Hojlund foul and never had a second think. I'm genuinely intrigued to watch his ref cam, as I think he's one of the worst ones in the prem.

 

[SilentWitness]

Hojlund does have a quick glance at Henderson before jumping with him/into him, however people classify it. In basketball, you'd call that a box out, which is totally legal and good play, but in football, with how protected keepers are, it seems like a fair call. I'll be honest though, I don't know what the rules say about incidents like this. I'm just going off how they've called this kind of incident over the years.

That said, Arsenal do what Hojlund did deliberately every single and it's allowed every game. Half their goals this season have come from someone doing what Hojlund did.

A glance can be an attempt to make sure you challenge fairly though, not just a glance to foul. I think Hojlund challenges fairly and if that's a foul then the protection of keepers is quite ridiculous.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A glance can be an attempt to make sure you challenge fairly though, not just a glance to foul. I think Hojlund challenges fairly and if that's a foul then the protection of keepers is quite ridiculous.

Fairly sure I remember someone saying that there's a directive to referees in La Liga (and the CL) that any attempt to challenge a keeper in the air, within the six yard box, is an automatic free out. This doesn't apply in the PL though. Which was confirmed by the referee taking an absolute age to make his mind up whether there was a foul or not. With such clear evidence on replay that there wasn't any foul, it's ridiculous that VAR didn't intervene. Poxy technology fails at its most basic duties, yet again.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Like feck he was. Strikers are allowed to compete with the keeper in the air. Hojlund had his arms down by his side and didn’t jump in Henderson’s direction. Couldn’t do any more to make his challenge fair and legitimate.

Come on be fair, he does jump in his direction. He ends almost on top of him inside the goal after they duel. I appreciate the fact that it's unfair that De Gea doesn't get a free kick for this stuff. That screen shot of the Chelsea thing is indeed ridiculous, but Hojlund very clearly jumps into him, not next to him.

Though if there are indeed seperate directives per country I guess maybe your rules are different. We definitely have the directive over here as well. Keepers can't be touched in the 6 yard box. Like, at all.

 

[Oranges038]

To be fair, that was allowed as it was part of a FA approved campaign to kick racism out of football

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Come on be fair, he does jump in his direction. He ends almost on top of him inside the goal after they duel. I appreciate the fact that it's unfair that De Gea doesn't get a free kick for this stuff. That screen shot of the Chelsea thing is indeed ridiculous, but Hojlund very clearly jumps into him, not next to him.

Though if there are indeed seperate directives per country I guess maybe your rules are different. We definitely have the directive over here as well. Keepers can't be touched in the 6 yard box. Like, at all.

He jumps towards the ball. Which is what you have to do if you want to head it. Are you saying he just have jumped straight up in the air, making no attempt to head the football?

The only reason that ball went over the line was because Henderson was weak as piss. Pathetic goalkeeping, which shouldn't have been covered up by pathetic officiating.

EDIT: Here's a video, for anyone who needs a refresher. Look at the way Henderson flings himself down after the tiniest bit of contact (which was hip to hip)

 

[KirkDuyt]

He jumps towards the ball. Which is what you have to do if you want to head it. Are you saying he just have jumped straight up in the air, making no attempt to head the football?

The only reason that ball went over the line was because Henderson was weak as piss. Pathetic goalkeeping, which shouldn't have been covered up by pathetic officiating.

EDIT: Here's a video, for anyone who needs a refresher. Look at the way Henderson flings himself down after the tiniest bit of contact (which was hip to hip)

As far as I know you cant really deliberately physically challenge a keeper for the ball in the 6 yard box, but I saw you mention this doesnt apply in England. So if that's true that changes things.

 

[Oranges038]

He jumps towards the ball. Which is what you have to do if you want to head it. Are you saying he just have jumped straight up in the air, making no attempt to head the football?

The only reason that ball went over the line was because Henderson was weak as piss. Pathetic goalkeeping, which shouldn't have been covered up by pathetic officiating.

EDIT: Here's a video, for anyone who needs a refresher. Look at the way Henderson flings himself down after the tiniest bit of contact (which was hip to hip)

Even as a keeper I genuinely don't think it's a foul, it's just weak goalkeeping. Henderson was kind of jumping from a standing position so was at an immediate disadvantage, those are always difficult especially when ball is dropping like that. There's no real push, no arm across, just two players competing for a ball in the air, neither gets a definitive touch on it and it goes in.

If that is a foul then Anderson kicking right through the back of Dalot and the other guy pushing Casemiro in the back are both fouls.

 

[Sandikan]

I mean, we were. We were also absolutely dreadful but those things are not mutually exclusive. The disallowed goal was absurd, there's nothing in it and I've seen De Gea being lambasted for years for being too weak in much harder situations and there was a foul on Dalot. The outcome of the game should not matter in debating the refereeing of them.

You can't knock into a keeper, they're a protected species and it's been that way for years.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

You can't knock into a keeper, they're a protected species and it's been that way for years.

This goal has been given multiple times - this season and previous ones.

 

[Skills]

It's being sabotaged by shit referees. That was the perfect opportunity for it to actually function as intended but a shit show of a referee ruins it.

 

[Shane88]

Why not allow the play to develop? They have the technology to pull it back and call offside if necessary, like they do 99.9% of the time.

The quick call stunk of them doing Madrid a favour.

 

[Amar__]

So the refereee just decided to ignore VAR offside rule and blow the whistle in Real Madrid's favour.

Nothing to see here, just Real Madrid usual CL campaign.

 

[Skills]

Why not allow the play to develop? They have the technology to pull it back and call offside if necessary, like they do 99.9% of the time.

The quick call stunk of them doing Madrid a favour.

Because the refs are shit. People complain about VAR, but it's the refs that have always been the problem. The more decision making we takeaway from referees the better the sport is.

 

[Shinjch]

Far too many examples of their incompetence deciding outcomes. They are really hurting the game.

 

[2 man midfield]

Can’t they bin off linesmen? If they’ve got automated offsides, do they even need them?

 

[Samid]

What on earth was baldie doing?! Just let it play out ffs

 

[Abizzz]

The most depressing thing is that it seems the refs just keep getting worse and worse. So many tactical fouls today too, from both sides, not a single yellow given. The standard of reffing is hurting the game across all leagues and competitions I watch.

 

[17Larsson]

Was it offside?

VAR was brought for big moments in big games, surely the last minute of a CL semi final is a good time to use it?

 

[2 man midfield]

Was it offside?

VAR was brought for big moments in big games, surely the last minute of a CL semi final is a good time to use it?

Irrelevant if the ref has blown the whistle, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. The lino should’ve kept his flag down.

 

[17Larsson]

Irrelevant if the ref has blown the whistle, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. The lino should’ve kept his flag down.

I know but that's why VAR was brought in, so they can use it. They've been letting play go for 5 minutes before raising the flag all season, why change that at the last minute of CL semi final?

 

[Pughnichi]

The ref, up until 112th minute was actually quite good. A strong ref, didn’t take shit. Didn’t buy the diving/wasting time from either team when it suited.

but then he goes and ruins it all with perhaps the worst decision of the season

 

[2 man midfield]

I know but that's why VAR was brought in, so they can use it. They've been letting play go for 5 minutes before raising the flag all season, why change that at the last minute of CL semi final?

Yep, I don’t get it either. That rule seems to vary from game to game. Which is weird because it’s a binary thing. They either leave them down or don’t.

 

[Flying high]

Irrelevant if the ref has blown the whistle, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. The lino should’ve kept his flag down.

The ref also doesn't have to immediately blow the whistle just because the flag goes up. Let the play go and see what happens.

 

[2 man midfield]

The ref also doesn't have to immediately blow the whistle just because the flag goes up. Let the play go and see what happens.

This is also true. I thought the ref had a great game until that last feck up

 

[bstb3]

The ref, up until 112th minute was actually quite good. A strong ref, didn’t take shit. Didn’t buy the diving/wasting time from either team when it suited.

but then he goes and ruins it all with perhaps the worst decision of the season

In fairness his lino put the flag up, that was where the error was. He has to trust him and assume a clear offside really, even though technically he could play on. He was good all night though, agree on that. Can't imagine the pressure and fatigue of the occasion but still from the assistant it's a huge error on almost the biggest stage imaginable. If it wasn't intentional then feel actually quite bad for him.

 

[Abizzz]

The ref, up until 112th minute was actually quite good. A strong ref, didn’t take shit. Didn’t buy the diving/wasting time from either team when it suited.

but then he goes and ruins it all with perhaps the worst decision of the season

He needed VAR to see the most obvious of pushes right in his line of sight.

 

[Pughnichi]

In fairness his lino put the flag up, that was where the error was. He has to trust him and assume a clear offside really, even though technically he could play on. He was good all night though, agree on that. Can't imagine the pressure and fatigue of the occasion but still from the assistant it's a huge error on almost the biggest stage imaginable. If it wasn't intentional then feel actually quite bad for him.

Yeah it’s the linos fault for going early. But ultimately the ref rules the pitch and he could have let it play out rather than going to the whistle. Such a shame

 

[Stobzilla]

Speaking on dodgy refs.

Michael "actually paid by the UAE and known Newcastle fan" Oliver is reffing the FA Cup final.

Well done City.

EDIT: My bad, he's just on VAR so you can guarantee another City non-penalty from a corner.

 

[Pughnichi]

Speaking on dodgy refs.

Michael "actually paid by the UAE and known Newcastle fan" Oliver is reffing the FA Cup final.

Well done City.

Nooooooooooo FFS

Any remote chance we had has been wiped out then.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah it’s the linos fault for going early. But ultimately the ref rules the pitch and he could have let it play out rather than going to the whistle. Such a shame

Be In Sport just showed that the ref whistled before the lino lifted his flag

 

[Pughnichi]

Speaking on dodgy refs.

Michael "actually paid by the UAE and known Newcastle fan" Oliver is reffing the FA Cup final.

Well done City.

It’s madley. Just checked. Oliver still on var though. Don’t know which is worse…him being on the pitch or making the decisions like a puppet master hidden in a dark room

 

[Pughnichi]

Be In Sport just showed that the ref whistled before the lino lifted his flag

feckin hell. If that’s the case, then that’s shambolic…and def makes it the worst decision of the season

 

[The Purley King]

That “offside” is utterly scandalous.
Was not offside and Bayern denied extra time .
Only just finished watching now but I’d be fecking fuming if that last call went against us.

Edit - it’s also completely inept from the Lino who surely can’t see a clear offside because there wasn’t one.
Have Madrid hired Barca’s brown envelope guy?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Be In Sport just showed that the ref whistled before the lino lifted his flag

Is there any chance he blew for a foul by the Bayern player competing to head the ball?

 

[Zen]

Hey, at least Bayern get an apology!