https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44658757
This is what VAR is about, increasing the percentage of correct decisions.
This is what VAR is about, increasing the percentage of correct decisions.
VAR - Not the hero we want, the one we need
- Thread starter Pavl3n
- Start date
If VAR isn’t a bad concept when the wrong decision is made then it can’t be a good concept when the right decision is made.
Bottled it again
Not that I'm complaining in this instance
Not that I'm complaining in this instance
Is there a gif of this supposed penalty end of the game?
I'm not a ref and I'm genuinely confused by what level of contact/pulling is allowed in the box so until someone clarifies it, I'll assume they have their reasons for not giving a penalty.
It seems like tons of players can pull and grab each other in the box without any foul.
It seems like tons of players can pull and grab each other in the box without any foul.
Pique and Ramos were clearly fouled.
However, if a Spanish player commits a foul (i.e. grabs a Russian player) before or at the same time that Pique/Ramos are grabbed then VAR aren't supposed to review it, even if the fouls on the Spanish players are far more blatant. All it takes is one Spanish player to grab a Russian and it's not a review as far as VAR are concerened.
Correct decision imo as I thought there was grabbing by Spanish players too, much though I wanted Spain to win.
However, if a Spanish player commits a foul (i.e. grabs a Russian player) before or at the same time that Pique/Ramos are grabbed then VAR aren't supposed to review it, even if the fouls on the Spanish players are far more blatant. All it takes is one Spanish player to grab a Russian and it's not a review as far as VAR are concerened.
Correct decision imo as I thought there was grabbing by Spanish players too, much though I wanted Spain to win.
If you’re referring to the Spain penalty shout at the end, then I disagree. I don’t think there was enough in it for a penalty. But this is why it’ll never be perfect, there’s plenty open to interpretation.
yes and no that would have been the softest penalty ever to decide a knockout game with so much tension. No penalty for me.
Pique got manhandled.
It doesn't matter whether its a dead rubber group game with Spain leading 5-0 or the 93rd minute of the World Cup final at 0-0.
It's a penalty.
It doesn't matter whether its a dead rubber group game with Spain leading 5-0 or the 93rd minute of the World Cup final at 0-0.
It's a penalty.
I didn't pay attention to Pique but Ramos was also grabbing the Russian player so it could have easily been given as a Russia FK
But it was reviewed? And then called no.
I know What you mean as that’s the same as the Kane Incident. But this one WAS called for review.
I think it was just iffy enough for the ref To bottle it, earlier in the game or for Russia the decision may have been different.
If the question was just whether the grabs on Pique and Ramos were severe enough to constitute a penalty then it would have gone to review, with the referee having the opportunity to correct his initial call not to award the penalty.
The fact that it didn't even go to review indicates that VAR felt the grabbing by Spanish players rendered a review uneccesary.
Imho both Pique and Ramos were looking for that contact and added to it. No pen whatsoever.
If thats a penalty then this should not be a contact sport
Which I agree with. It was never a penalty thats why the people in the box told the referee no review was necessary. If that was a penalty then 90% of outcomes in the box would be a penalty.
It wasn't reviewed as far as I'm aware, it was checked. The next step would have been to recommend a review, at which point the referee would have had the opportunity to view it himself at the side of the pitch.
They go to ground far too easily. It is a contact sport, and players need to at least try to stay on their feet. If they go down like a sack of potatoes when they feel a hand on their shoulder, VAR shouldn’t act. Correct decision IMO.
They did right not going to a long review. Ramos had ahold of the top of the Russia man's shirt, was turned the completely wrong way, then went down. Would have been a ridiculous penalty and Ramos might not have made out of the stadium alive.
I really dont understand the point of VAR if they couldnt see Ramos and Pique getting pulled down in the box.
This is going to become the imaginary card waving, isn't it?
Is VAR going to encourage a focus on long balls and set pieces, looking to draw contact in the box and go down?
Kane’s penalty was very soft, should have been reviewed by referee.
But VAR can’t really be of much help when there is a bad ref.
But VAR can’t really be of much help when there is a bad ref.
How much contact can be allowed? Should forward players be expected to at least try to stay on their feet when there is some contact? Because right now, the incentive is to go down like a sack of potatoes.
Completely changed the balance of defending. I think England have been ahead of the curve here. They complain to the ref early about holding, bring his attention to a certain match up and then react to contact.
I know people will say there should be no holding in the box but this is how teams have defended for the vast majority of the history of the game. It is a massive change going into a WC and some defenses have shown mass panic trying to adapt to it.
It is not a non-contact sport after all, at all levels there has always been pushing/pulling, grappling to establish position.
Agree about England adapting to it, they purposely took an age on every free kick and corner trying to create a mess in the box and I wasn’t surprised at all to see them making var signs and eventually getting a pen.
A lot of times holding is initiated by one side, but both are pulling at each other, then one loses theiir balance, and down both go in a tangle. Are those going to be penalties now?
People have slagged England's performance tonight but before the goal I thought it was a brilliantly managed game by them, relative to knockout tournament football.
... Which totally could have been a penalty, taking into account how previous handball-incidents has been handled. Personally thought it was such a clear penalty as Rojo got an advantage out of handling the ball.
I cannot understand this. The referee warns the player, looks at the player and he doesn’t stop holding, neither does he look at the ball - it’s 100% a penalty. He literally does what the ref tells him not to do and knows the ref is watching him. The ref would never turn back on this, and he probably let the VAR’s study the video after it was given. If I’m not mistaken, the same referee let another penalty be given by the VAR’s without looking at the video himself earlier in the tournament. I applaud that, 3x VAR’s beats one referee on the pitch who’s biased by his decision.
I’m not slagging their performance, not sure if you mean that towards me.
In the build up to the game Southgate and players mentioned setpieces and percentages of where goals come from and then During the match I noticed that all free kicks in the Columbia half took ages to actually take with nonsense in the box, same for corners. I know they were even slowing throw ins down, basically taking an age to do everything but they focused a lot on making a meal of things in the box imo
Played Colombia's emotions brilliantly, Colombia were pricks at times but England were going down very easily all over the place, killing the game, frustrating them so much they lost their heads to the point where is was the 85th minute before they started to play.
That is the tricky part, and what I think England have done well, establishing a narrative of what is happening on set pieces, and then exploiting it. Very clever, very professional.
It was reviewed, see Neymar penalty. They are all reviewed. It was also a clear pen, Sanchez just rode him in the end, which was stupid. The stupidness deserved a pen alone.
Not you no, I was referring to the posters in the match day thread. World Cup knockout football is about fine margins, you have to be smart. In the past England haven't been.
Yea I agree with all that, I was kinda pointing out their smartness, even if I didn’t enjoy watching it and thought it was slightly influenced by VAR being used.
These sort of investigations needs transparency, so the common man can check them and agree/disagree and bring the footballing law and a democratic opinion into it. It's basically just FIFA saying FIFA is doing great.
I read an article the other day with a guy going through all VAR decisions in the World Cup. I ended up disagreeing with 50% of what he said and thought he was a total knob.
There's just so much uncertainty and no consistency in what they take up, that it seems so incomplete.
One thing VAR has created is a 5 minute gap between the penalty being conceded and being taken. With the players harassing the ref to check the VAR as they have nothing to lose at that point.
The full time is never added on. Would like to see the comparison of time of ball in play between tournaments, see how VAR is influencing that.
The way I saw it: there is minimal contact, Kane starts going down, Sanchez is trying to move along with Kane, and Sanchez just cannot get out of the way as Kane goes down, and clobbers onto him and rides him on the way down, as you say. It is a fabricated penalty by Kane, but it also takes skill to pull off.
The right thing from Sanchez would be to stop, because Kane was basically on the way down. He would never catch that ball, i am afraid. If he keeps riding Kane from behind and Kane is already falling, tell me that it is stupid. he could easily back off but chose to stick close with Kane and paid the price for his stupid actions.
Not stupid, just inexperienced. Kane was fabricating the penalty all the way. I agree that even if the ref decides to look at the screen he probably doesn’t overturn the decision.
He is 32, has 85 caps, played in England, Italy and now Spain. Stupid. As he showed against japan with his hand and red card in the 6th minute too. Stop defending him