Kompany slams pretty heavily, studs up, into Jesus' ankle. if that isn't a foul I don't know what is
VAR - Not the hero we want, the one we need
- Thread starter Pavl3n
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Ain't saying it wasn't, just that may have judged it that way in terms of when the ball needs to be in play.
Control of the ball can’t be a prerequisite for a foul, and the proof of that is that we see penalties given as corners are floated into the box. How does the ref ascertain who’s in control when the ball is yet to reach either player involved?
Jesus was clipped, the ball seems to have been within the field of play as contact was made. One could argue that the reason that he kicks it wide is because he’s trying to avoid the tackle and tries to play on. Clear penalty for me, but I’m not really complaining since I wanted Belgium to win.
Ball was still in play.
What was they thinking?
What was they thinking?
Anyone else think the referee took a stern decision for Neymar's 90th minute dive because of VAR?
If he had fecked up, he knew VAR would catch the foul and call for the penalty later.
Withour VAR, I think he would give it as a pen. 90th minute, knockout stage, Neymar etc
If he had fecked up, he knew VAR would catch the foul and call for the penalty later.
Withour VAR, I think he would give it as a pen. 90th minute, knockout stage, Neymar etc
The Kompany one should've been a pen. Ball was in play.
I've slept on it and I somehow find it really strange and maybe even corrupt that he gives a correct penalty at first, but then VAR overturns it without letting the ref see it again.
With no explanations the people in the VAR booth can just overturn or give a lot of 50/50 penalties because they are an "intelligent system". But without explanations or clear rules, this could also be used as a tool for matchfixing/bias. At the World Cup we supposedly have the cream of the crop of refereeing, but we wont see this amount of "quality refs" in each country - England for example would need 3 good refs in a booth at each game and one on the field - its hard enough to just mention one good referee in England combined.
The episode of yesterday was VAR's own Hand of God episode. Referee-pundits says it was a penalty. Wrongly sends out a team. But with far less controversy/media hype because its an "intelligent system"
With no explanations the people in the VAR booth can just overturn or give a lot of 50/50 penalties because they are an "intelligent system". But without explanations or clear rules, this could also be used as a tool for matchfixing/bias. At the World Cup we supposedly have the cream of the crop of refereeing, but we wont see this amount of "quality refs" in each country - England for example would need 3 good refs in a booth at each game and one on the field - its hard enough to just mention one good referee in England combined.
The episode of yesterday was VAR's own Hand of God episode. Referee-pundits says it was a penalty. Wrongly sends out a team. But with far less controversy/media hype because its an "intelligent system"
FIFA just needs the refs to give a small statement after matches and/or release the audio of VAR communication immediately after a match. I'm sure there is a logically sound explanation for every decision taken in the current spotlight, but on controversial calls like this the silence is often filled with all kinds of accusations and suspicions and that can't be good for the refs or the game.
They actually said they'd debrief the media post match in case of a big VAR decision that needed an explanation. I guess they didn't feel it was needed here.
VAR failed with Kompany's foul. It does a good job overall but it doesn't replace human decisions and human decisions will always be imperfect: because of cognitive biases, limitations, politics, corruption, etc.
If Russia manage to win it, we'll come to reconsider some decisions which paved the way for them by subtly or not so subltly eliminating Spain, Brazil...(France and England coming next?).
They're also quoted of this from earlier in the tournament:
Which makes this everso much more wrong. The VAR-room must have meant it was a REALLY clear and obvious mistake from the referee. There's nothing obvious about the situation at all.
Obvious to the referee, not obvious to the audience. Those aren't necessarily the same.
No, of course not. VAR is not considering what is obvious to the ref. This is why its bad: Its not obvious to anyone that its definitely NOT a penalty and then the original decision (penalty) should stand.
Can someone who thinks this is not a penalty explain why?
The ref never gave a penalty.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that it wasn't a penalty, but my guess would be that
a) because they judged that the significant part of the contact was made after the ball crossed the line
b) because they judged that Jesus was looking for the contact
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Didn't he point to the spot in the first place? That was my clear understanding and what the commentators on danish television said.
No he definitely gave a goal kick.
Pretty sure he pointed for a goal kick.
They usually whistle in addition to pointing if it's a pen.
There was 0 chance that Jesus would have caught the ball before it would have gone out of play.
The ball wasn't in Jesus' control and was already going to get out of play regardless of Kompany's tackle. A bit like Cole's foul on Hernandez a few years ago which was not given a penalty.
So ball is not in his control anymore, and Jesus is looking for contact. I think it was the right decision in the end.
Wrong. Read the thread, ball doesn’t need to be under control, same situation as crosses going into the box and pens given without player in control.
They either thought the ball was out of play before the ‘main’ foul. But ball is clearly in play.
Or, they though Jesus dived or bought it.
In the current climate of the game its a pen but I'm old school so I only really think penalties should be given with an obvious chance at goal is squandered. Jesus kicked the ball out of play as Kompany touched him, the same outcome would have been achieved had he stayed on his feet.
Nope. In crosses/corners, there is a chance that the player can get the ball, here it was zero. A similar situation might have been the ball to be in some other part of the pitch (let's say in defense), while a defender tackles an attacker in the other zone. Ball still in play, but no pen would be given (though it might be a red card, etc). On other words, if Materazzi had headbutted Zidane instead, it wouldn't have been a penalty for France. Just a red card for Materazzi and an indirect kick or whatever.
Laws of football are very short, so there doesn't exist 'the rule doesn't say so'. The rules are subject to interpretation and referees are not robots. Penalty is given when you deny a chance in the zone. If there is no chance (i.e the ball is getting out of play without any chance for the player to get it), then you don't get the penalty. There are of course other reasons why it might not have been given:
- Kompany was trying to not hit Jesus, while Jesus, knowing that the ball is getting out, went for a contact which he could have avoided.
- The foul (not necessarily the contact) happened while the ball was out of play.
- Brazil were diving all day long so there might be bias there from refs, and so they might have been biased to not give the pen, genuinely think that it wasn't a pen. Just look at rival fans who for the same event might have totally different opinions.
This. And there is also the difference to a penalty given after corner for example. The player might not be clearly in control of the ball when he is fouled, but the ball remains inside the playing field and thereby a chance to score a goal might have been prevented by the foul. That was not the case with Jesus. The ball was going out anyway and he would have had no chance to reach the ball even if Kompany would not have hit him.
VAR are buying into this ‘It’s coming home’ nonsense by the looks of the non-call there on Lovren in the box. That’s every bit a penalty as anything England have got one for this tournament. It’s the sheer hypocrisy and inconsistencies which grate with this new system.
I must have missed it. Was that a penalty in favor of England or Croatia?
Croatia.
This will be a sad season. Watching Rangers for some stupid reason, and lack of VAR is grating.
What leagues do have it?
Italy
Germany
Spain?
France?
What leagues do have it?
Italy
Germany
Spain?
France?
I think it was because they didn’t bother to look at it until after all the players had left they pitch. They’d have had to pull everyone back from the dressing room.
There’s precedent for that happening, actually. I’ve forgotten the exact circumstances and the exact teams involved (could be the MLS) but VAR overruled the referee after the half-time whistle went and they had to come back out onto the field to take the penalty. It is possible.
* EDIT: It was a Bundesliga game between Mainz and Freiburg last season.
So what is PL waiting to implement VAR? Watching VAR in FA Cup shows us that English referees are so bad and arrogant that they can't even make VAR works. I remember Chelsea:Norwich game when Graham Scott gave 2 yellow cards for diving to Morata and Willian for no reason. Arguably both penalties but definitely not diving. And after VAR intervention nothing changed. It works very well in other leagues should be the same in EPL.
What about CL? Imo 90% of winners would be different lately in CL if we had VAR. Pep and Zidane have 5 CL trophies together and i'm sure if VAR was used in CL last 10 years they would have zero, maybe one for Zidane.
What about CL? Imo 90% of winners would be different lately in CL if we had VAR. Pep and Zidane have 5 CL trophies together and i'm sure if VAR was used in CL last 10 years they would have zero, maybe one for Zidane.
You're going a bit too far there, VAR would not have put a stop to the Real Madrid stomping machine.
They have already announced it won't be used this season so probably the next.
I don't know if they have announced anything regarding the Nations League but since it's also a UEFA competition i guess not.
DIABOLICAL DECISION !!!!
fairly infrequently given without the VAR, anyway
fairly infrequently given without the VAR, anyway
I wasn't sure if it was a penalty or not. Therefore referee's decision should have stood as it wasn't clear and obvious i.e. no penalty.
Again, a problem with the application of VAR by the referees, not VAR itself.
Again, a problem with the application of VAR by the referees, not VAR itself.
Hand goes to ball. Hardly gives refs any choice once they see it in replay.
Yeah, it's wrong.
Pique was wrong too, in my opinion.
Can't give penalties for that, makes no sense.
Pique was wrong too, in my opinion.
Can't give penalties for that, makes no sense.
It was a pen. He moved his arm and opened his palm.
Croatia have benefitted from lots of favourable decisions throughout this world cup. Couldn't care less about a perceived injustice.
Croatia have benefitted from lots of favourable decisions throughout this world cup. Couldn't care less about a perceived injustice.