- Joined
- Apr 17, 2019
- Messages
- 10
- Supports
- Feyenoord
The critism on the VAR in the Netherlands is that its purely random. Imo the development that the VAR should go through, is some rule that decide when you will ask for a var-check.
And likewise, good luck explaining how the use of modern technology is unilaterally positive.If it's both compelling and correct then you'll have a hard time arguing that it isn't an improvement. Plus the emotion wasn't sucked out for City fans (or indeed Spus fans). Despair is as much an emotion as joy after all, so both went on an emotional rollercoaster in that minute and a half.
Like I said though, if even the potential threat of VAR stops you from being emotionally invested in your team scoring then that's unfortunate. Most people aren't that sensitive so.... *shrugs*
I mean good luck finding a sport that doesn't incorporate modern technology into its ruleset as we move further into the 21st century.
And likewise, good luck explaining how the use of modern technology is unilaterally positive.
It’s not about the 90s or early 00s. It’s about not disturbing a perfect creative process because there is literally no reason to.I never said it was though, nor does the pro-VAR argument depend on it being so. There just needs to be net benefit. Like I said, there are plenty of reasonable grounds to criticise VAR on that don't involve imagining what might happen in the future, or emotional damage to the sport that most people will never feel.
If the alternative argument is trying to keep football forever as it was in the late 90's/early 00's though then there was only ever going to one winner.
What an overraction. VAR and any type of instant replay in sports is about fair play. Football has evolved into a billion dollar dollar industry where results can have major financial repercussions (i.e. relegation/promotion, sports betting). The football governing bodies have an obligation to do whatever they can to make sure decisions are accurate and fair. They also need a defense against biased fans and journalists who claim matches are fixed by UEFA, the FA, or whoever. VAR helps with everything I just outlinedThey won’t understand it until they’ve grown bored of it. Football is about the billions of minor/major human decisions that go into each game/season/etc.
To change a part of that would be like removing something from a natural ecosystem. It will have consequences you can’t picture right now.
This is flatly untrue. Let's not make things up for the sake of argument (there is actually a sport you could have used to illustrate this)In only a few years it’s already become an annoyance in American football.
I think you're naive if you don't think football federations weigh the effects of implementing a system like VAR.Yes because when everyone said goal line technology would be that & we wouldn’t use it in other areas of the game..
Think you’re naive if you think in 5/10 years we won’t have more & more stoppages from more & more incidents being reviewed
“It’s not fair for defenders being penalised when attackers are getting away with it. You’ve got to have consistency.
Yeah, I've been saying this for a long time now. VAR to automatically review penalties, goals and red cards, but the teams have to have some kind of challenge system where they can challenge any call and force a VAR check.The critism on the VAR in the Netherlands is that its purely random. Imo the development that the VAR should go through, is some rule that decide when you will ask for a var-check.
Like how VAR benefited Daley Blind and proved he didn’t intentionally handball in the box vs. Juve?I think this is interesting.
https://talksport.com/football/529579/manchester-city-tottenham-llorente-handball-var-mark-halsey/
Especially this bit
All it would take is a challenge flag or something that you throw at the 4th official.Yeah, I've been saying this for a long time now. VAR to automatically review penalties, goals and red cards, but the teams have to have some kind of challenge system where they can challenge any call and force a VAR check.
If you want to waste your challenge (if it's not overturned) on a throw-in, then so be it. It's a travesty that it gets checked if it's inside the box, but two inches outside the box and you're left to the real-time, potentially obstructed, view of the referee.
Team challenges (which are kept if the call is overturned) have to be incorporated somehow IMO. Now people will be saying "well, teams will use it to waste time", but that easily fixable if you just add an automatic two minutes at the end of the game for a forced VAR check, even if the check takes ten seconds. That way a team forcing a frivolous VAR check in an attempt to waste time lose time instead.
Like how VAR benefited Daley Blind and proved he didn’t intentionally handball in the box vs. Juve?
What an overraction. VAR and any type of instant replay in sports is about fair play. Football has evolved into a billion dollar dollar industry where results can have major financial repercussions (i.e. relegation/promotion, sports betting). The football governing bodies have an obligation to do whatever they can to make sure decisions are accurate and fair. They also need a defense against biased fans and journalists who claim matches are fixed by UEFA, the FA, or whoever. VAR helps with everything I just outlined
This is flatly untrue. Let's not make things up for the sake of argument (there is actually a sport you could have used to illustrate this)
I think you're naive if you don't think football federations weigh the effects of implementing a system like VAR.
VAR produced one of the most excited, drama-filled football matches I have ever seen, yet some are in hear complaining. Crazy stuff
Yep. It’s the difference between scripted and unscripted drama.Yes because football federations always make the best decisions..(Quatar cough cough)
If you need VAR to rule out a goal for a match to be compelling then it’s a bit sad I guess. I’d call the atmosphere more awkward & odd than compelling.
Of course there is, they're just not as important as the benefits. The argument is getting tedious, VAR is here to stay, now the discussion should be how the system can be improved instead of having a "how'bout my little feelings though" roundtable.There are NO arguments against for you guys? Not at all.
Bit silly to think just because it’s here that it’s good or will improve the entertainment value.Of course there is, they're just not as important as the benefits. The argument is getting tedious, VAR is here to stay, now the discussion should be how the system can be improved instead of having a "how'bout my little feelings though" roundtable.
Evidence is on @awop ’s sideBit silly to think just because it’s here that it’s good or will improve the entertainment value.
Oh yes and so much of it. Good to draw conclusions from the one time and all. Dope.Evidence is on @awop ’s side
I watch the Bundesliga every weekend, bud. It has worked.Oh yes and so much of it. Good to draw conclusions from the one time and all. Dope.
Quantify it.I watch the Bundesliga every weekend, bud. It has worked.
It’s been a positive addition to La Liga and the Eredivisie as well.
I’ve not seen statistics released from this season yet, but statistics do exist from last season and the last World Cup.Quantify it.
The critiques about Qatar are real and documented. The critiques about VAR are based upon an abstract concept of the "romanticism of the game". Not exactly the same thing.Yes because football federations always make the best decisions..(Quatar cough cough)
If you need VAR to rule out a goal for a match to be compelling then it’s a bit sad I guess. I’d call the atmosphere more awkward & odd than compelling.
Don’t think anyone’s said it will kill it, just that it will change it. The change could be for better or worse and is still to be determined. The accuracy of results has never once in the history of the game hindered its popularity or growth. To focus so much on it now is a risk.The critiques about Qatar are real and documented. The critiques about VAR are based upon an abstract concept of the "romanticism of the game". Not exactly the same thing.
The last sentence is a straw man. Nobody is saying you need VAR for a compelling match. What a lot are saying is the notion that VAR will kill the "romanticism" of the game is a complete fabrication based on nothing but personal preferences.
"But you can't quantify romanticism of the game! You just can't!"I’ve not seen statistics released from this season yet, but statistics do exist from last season and the last World Cup.
World Cup: 99.3% accurate
La Liga: https://www.skysports.com/football/...-la-liga-statistics-released-by-referees-body
IFAB report compiled from 800 matches in 20 competitions in 2018: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42781236
I’d like to see you quantify “it’s going to take away romance and emotion of the game”.
It’s not on me to prove anything. The proof is in the fact that it’s the most popular sport on earth and has come to be so without the help of instant replay. It’s the responsibility of VAR proponents to prove or quantify how it will make the sport better. No easy task considering there’s not a close second in terms of popularity.I’ve not seen statistics released from this season yet, but statistics do exist from last season and the last World Cup.
World Cup: 99.3% accurate
La Liga: https://www.skysports.com/football/...-la-liga-statistics-released-by-referees-body
IFAB report compiled from 800 matches in 20 competitions in 2018: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42781236
I’d like to see you quantify “it’s going to take away romance and emotion of the game”.
You are making an accusation against VAR, aren’t you?It’s not on me to prove anything.
I’m questioning its value. To make such a big change to the fabric of the sport you, or those who pushed for it, should be able to assign some sort of value to it.You are making an accusation against VAR, aren’t you?
So, go ahead. Quantify your claim. Show me the crowds of people in La Liga, the Bundesliga, the World Cup, etc. all in a bored stupor, lulled to death by the soul crusher that is VAR.
The bolded is irrelevant. For one, VAR will not hinder the growth of football (I think we can all agree with that). More importantly, a decision that wins or loses a professional football match can have important ramifications. Ask Cardiff, if they end up relegated by a point, how much that offside goal might have cost them. Missed revenue from extra home matches in a knockout competition, wagers on matches, and public perception of match-fixing are a few other obvious reasons why instant replay/ VAR is beneficial.Don’t think anyone’s said it will kill it, just that it will change it. The change could be for better or worse and is still to be determined. The accuracy of results has never once in the history of the game hindered its popularity or growth. To focus so much on it now is a risk.
They’ve published the stats on VAR every year so far showing its value. I mean... those on my side have done their part to prove their case.I’m questioning its value. To make such a big change to the fabric of the sport you, or those who pushed for it, should be able to assign some sort of value to it.
Somebody still hasn’t backed up their claim that instant replay has become “an annoyance” in American football.This reminds me of how wrong people were when the NFL adopted instant replay.
Of course there is, they're just not as important as the benefits. The argument is getting tedious, VAR is here to stay, now the discussion should be how the system can be improved instead of having a "how'bout my little feelings though" roundtable.
Somebody still hasn’t backed up their claim that instant replay has become “an annoyance” in American football.
They’ve published the stats on VAR every year so far showing its value. I mean... those on my side have done their part to prove their case.
Convenient that you don’t think you have the same burden of proof.
Stats stats stats..this is where we’re different- just because VAR increases accuracy levels of decisions doesn’t mean it’s good for the game.
So by your logic we should video replay every tackle , throw in, goal kick, free kick in the pursuit of getting 100% accuracy as that’s the be all and end all to you? Hell to the free flowing nature of the game.
Which of course you can’t do as football is massively a subjective sport
...we ALL agree
In the general sense though, we are travelling with/towards technology-assisted decision-making being part of sport & in football giving equivalent leeway or benefit of the doubt to attackers now.
And I was wondering - and I don't mean this rudely but younger, non-romantics & American people seem to love the meticulous accuracy, strict rules being rules approach & all the data & statistics more than the 'making it up as you go along' approach.
I remain undecided on VAR generally, a long trial seems reasonable. Once you see the best angle, Llorente was a stone-cold handball. VAR should have been disallowing it, therefore VAR cocked it up on this occasion.
Once you see the best angle, Llorente was a stone-cold handball. VAR should have been disallowing it, therefore VAR cocked it up on this occasion.
Don’t think anyone’s said it will kill it, just that it will change it. The change could be for better or worse and is still to be determined. The accuracy of results has never once in the history of the game hindered its popularity or growth. To focus so much on it now is a risk.
It’s not on me to prove anything. The proof is in the fact that it’s the most popular sport on earth and has come to be so without the help of instant replay. It’s the responsibility of VAR proponents to prove or quantify how it will make the sport better. No easy task considering there’s not a close second in terms of popularity.
I’m questioning its value. To make such a big change to the fabric of the sport you, or those who pushed for it, should be able to assign some sort of value to it.
But that's the actual purpose of the system. It's designed to do this one thing and it's doing it. Turn it around, do you think the current system is "good for the game" ? Or are you going to harp back about "we need to improve the referees" ?Stats stats stats..this is where we’re different- just because VAR increases accuracy levels of decisions doesn’t mean it’s good for the game.
So by your logic we should video replay every tackle , throw in, goal kick, free kick in the pursuit of getting 100% accuracy as that’s the be all and end all to you? Hell to the free flowing nature of the game.
Which of course you can’t do as football is massively a subjective sport