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Mental. It's not like the spendings were made from money generated by stealing from orphans, drug trafficking and slavery. It's money made from being successful in football, so why would you hold it against the club?If that makes you satisfied, I am happy for you. For me however, the club is average, especially when you put the enormous spendings in relation to the results.
Tbf we have only finished once in top 3 in last 5 years. Not a big mistake calling us average.It's simply incorrect to call the club average.
That said, I don't think that Mourinho is helping his confidence, or any of the defenders for that matter.
What we saw from Lindelof last night was clear signs of him being out of his depth. He didn't make that awful back because he is technically poor, he made it because he came on in a difficult moment and he was afraid.
Ominous signs.
Worst? Google “William Prunier man utd”. That fella was pretty bad, albeit he was on loan so somewhat different to Lindelof.I believe he's the worst defender i've ever seen play for United in a Premier League match. His positioning is terrible, he's fairly slow, not intelligent, and clearly isn't very good at passing. If he ever plays for United again I can only imagine it's because there's not a single other option or we just don't give a fucc.
I am sorry if I came out rude, that wasn’t my intention. However for me, the performance of United has been very average the last years. Some success last year with second place however miles away from the title. Some international success two years ago with Europe league title however everybody knows that is the second division of international football. I would call the results average. Anyway, that was not the point, the point was that the club seem incapable of taking care of the talents of both star players and young players. That is a problem.It's simply incorrect to call the club average.
That said, I don't think that Mourinho is helping his confidence, or any of the defenders for that matter.
What we saw from Lindelof last night was clear signs of him being out of his depth. He didn't make that awful back because he is technically poor, he made it because he came on in a difficult moment and he was afraid.
Ominous signs.
It’s not from a ROI point of view, United have average results. Simple as that. But they are second in the world, or third, at salaries. That fact points at a problem.Mental. It's not like the spendings were made from money generated by stealing from orphans, drug trafficking and slavery. It's money made from being successful in football, so why would you hold it against the club?
You wouldn't call Microsoft an average business because a bunch of businesses performed better than Microsoft from an ROI perspective for a few years. So why would you do the same with United?
You seem to be forgetting that he followed up nearly gifting a goal from the assist/backpass to Dele Alli, with completely losing Kane from the resulting corner and falling backwards while allowing him a free header from 5 yards out. He gifted two easy-as-you-come goal scoring chances in the space of minutes and he was only on the pitch for 30 mins yesterday.I thought he actually played alright against Leciester, unfortunately he got roped in with Bailly's incredibly terrible performance and got dropped for it. I'm sure his confidence is low and then he gets subbed in when we're already two goals down. The back pass was terrible but they didn't capitalize from it at least. He's not nearly as bad as everyone is making him out to be, he just needs a run of games beside someone who can give him some direction.
Average results. 4 finals in the last 3 years (with 3 wins) and consistently being at the top end of the table is average? Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you simply not know what average means?It’s not from a ROI point of view, United have average results. Simple as that. But they are second in the world, or third, at salaries. That fact points at a problem.
He clearly has confidence issues, he got a ton of slack and was dropped for Leicester when it was mainly shambolic from Bailly, I'm just guessing that was part of his problem yesterday.You seem to be forgetting that he followed up nearly gifting a goal from the assist/backpass to Dele Alli, with completely losing Kane from the resulting corner and falling backwards while allowing him a free header from 5 yards out. He gifted two easy-as-you-come goal scoring chances in the space of minutes and he was only on the pitch for 30 mins yesterday.
He didn't have any positive influence either. That's quite a shambolic cameo for a defender.
It is very average to me. You know that Europe league is for the teams which are too poor for the CL, right? But this debate is meaningless. United have performed average to me, and amazingly to you. I can live with that.Average results. 4 finals in the last 3 years (with 3 wins) and consistently being at the top end of the table is average? Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you simply not know what average means?
Tbf we have only finished once in top 3 in last 5 years. Not a big mistake calling us average.
If you want to say that United have been average at the elite level then I have no issue with that. To call the club 'average' with nothing more to qualify that statement is just completely incorrect.It is very average to me. You know that Europe league is for the teams which are too poor for the CL, right? But this debate is meaningless. United have performed average to me, and amazingly to you. I can live with that.
I thought he actually played alright against Leciester, unfortunately he got roped in with Bailly's incredibly terrible performance and got dropped for it. I'm sure his confidence is low and then he gets subbed in when we're already two goals down. The back pass was terrible but they didn't capitalize from it at least. He's not nearly as bad as everyone is making him out to be, he just needs a run of games beside someone who can give him some direction.
I don’t mean average compared to all clubs in the world. It is compared to where the club want to be. Yes top 30 in the world maybe but for me that is average. Again, I wrote it to point at the problem with the club not being able to take care of players.If you want to say that United have been average at the elite level then I have no issue with that. To call the club 'average' with nothing more to qualify that statement is just completely incorrect.
Thanks! I need a good laugh about now.Worst? Google “William Prunier man utd”. That fella was pretty bad, albeit he was on loan so somewhat different to Lindelof.
We're actually ranked 12th in Europe by UEFA based on our European performance over the last 5 seasons.I don’t mean average compared to all clubs in the world. It is compared to where the club want to be. Yes top 30 in the world maybe but for me that is average. Again, I wrote it to point at the problem with the club not being able to take care of players.
Think that's what he means ( and what I think so too ) not that we became a midtable club but I'm not him so can only speak about myself.If you want to say that United have been average at the elite level then I have no issue with that. To call the club 'average' with nothing more to qualify that statement is just completely incorrect.
I know, the Europe league title and last years second place must weigh heavy.We're actually ranked 12th in Europe by UEFA based on our European performance over the last 5 seasons.
I will say this, I am yet to see his passing and ability on the ball that is supposed to be his strong point. Just because he doesn’t immediately hoof the ball upfield like our other defenders, doesn’t make him good on the ball.
Good on the ball is defined as players like Ramos, Hummels, even the much maligned David Luiz, players who actually do something constructive in possession. Those are players who are good on the ball. All Lindelof does is look for an easy pass near him to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible instead of punting it long.
Plenty of top cbs have made that mistake. All players make mistakes. I wouldn't really play him that much myself but thats because I don't think he is good not because he made a mistake.If I was a manager and I had a defender who passed it back like that he would never play again, or at least until I was sure his attitude had improved. Just so incredibly lackadaisical, I get that he's meant to be a calm presence in the backline but that was just utterly careless.
I dunno, it looked less like a freak mistake to me, and more just total carelessness. Sure, plenty of top CBS make the error but you give him an opportunity to come in like that after having a poor game vs Brighton? And he repays it with a pass as lazy as that? You'd think he would come in incredibly determined to prove himself, to me it just looks like he simply doesn't have the right attitude.Plenty of top cbs have made that mistake. All players make mistakes. I wouldn't really play him that much myself but thats because I don't think he is good not because he made a mistake.
Or he was incredibly nervous and low in confidence?I dunno, it looked less like a freak mistake to me, and more just total carelessness. Sure, plenty of top CBS make the error but you give him an opportunity to come in like that after having a poor game vs Brighton? And he repays it with a pass as lazy as that? You'd think he would come in incredibly determined to prove himself, to me it just looks like he simply doesn't have the right attitude.
Like Matic's headless dribbling as (almost) the last defender?If I was a manager and I had a defender who passed it back like that he would never play again, or at least until I was sure his attitude had improved. Just so incredibly lackadaisical, I get that he's meant to be a calm presence in the backline but that was just utterly careless.
I had a lot of faith in that guy and was frustrated with LVG for not playing him but in the end his exit was more than justified. The man doesn't even look the part at Everton! I agree with you over Lindelof. He doesn't belong in this league and would struggle even at a club like Wolves.He reminds me of Schinderlin when he was here, very timid, shying away from the ball, and can't handle the pressure of playing for Utd.
Was he really a rock though? He had one or two good games but that doesn't make him a player. He's below average when it come's to defending.Watching him for us be almost useless, and watching him for Sweden be a rock against the best in the world; sigh there must be a player somewhere, one we scouted and decided was worth 30m. I remain hopeful we will unlock that at some point, although for that to happen we need an experienced rock to help develop him (same for Bailly as well).
It's not the attitude, it's the talent, or, lack thereof.I dunno, it looked less like a freak mistake to me, and more just total carelessness. Sure, plenty of top CBS make the error but you give him an opportunity to come in like that after having a poor game vs Brighton? And he repays it with a pass as lazy as that? You'd think he would come in incredibly determined to prove himself, to me it just looks like he simply doesn't have the right attitude.
Watching him for us be almost useless, and watching him for Sweden be a rock against the best in the world; sigh there must be a player somewhere, one we scouted and decided was worth 30m. I remain hopeful we will unlock that at some point, although for that to happen we need an experienced rock to help develop him (same for Bailly as well).
He's just not good enough. Arsenal had flops like Senderos (who had a good international career) and Gabriel Paulista who showed way more initial promise than Lindelof ever has. The guy is just not good enough at this level.He should go on loan somewhere to settle in the league and grow confidence. There must be an arragement with some club that he could go and play. If he played consistently for a year he would be fine.
