Btw Manchester United payed above the release clause in both the Anderson (Porto) and Nani (Sporting) cases
Victor Lindelöf
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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He's a good strong defender with a nice brain but still a bit too raw. Also reckon his ceiling to be good but not world class.
Oh right I didn't know that, cheers for the info.
I was very impressed with him against Bayern last year. He was the only Benficaplayer who managed to stay composed.
But defenders are hard to evaluate. We tend to get very excited when we see a tall, strong and fast centre back, but brains beat power every time if you ask me. And you really need to study a defender to know his positional abilities or if he can lead a back line (communication is so important!). Some defenders seem prone to brainfart moments too.
Lindelof is not particular fast or very strong in the air, but he seem to have a good brain and to be great on the ball. Might be a good match for Bailly.
He is talented - but is he better than Jones, Smalling or Bailly ? No - so why should we sign him ? He is not exceptionally quick, he is not very tall - he is a good allround defender but not what we should be looking at.
There are probably 10 defenders available who are better - let's go for one of those
There are probably 10 defenders available who are better - let's go for one of those
In January? I'd like to see your list...
The only quality one I can think of is van Dijk, and even his availability is questionable (I can't see Southampton wanting to sell).
We cannot rely on Smalling or Jones for a whole season.
There have been lots of new faces around the block in recent years. With Mourinho in charge, United's pulling power will only grow bigger and bigger. A guy like Boateng (currently having trouble with management) would definitely listen closely when Mourinho comes calling and he's not the only one! But of course you'll have to put the big bucks on the table and with big bucks we're talking "pogbaesque" here. Can't predict the future!
Last summer was overshadowed by the big acquisition of Stones, but in the background Klopp managed to snap up Matip for free and the guy's been nothing but a huge success story so far. Media doing their own scouting reports, but he was -according to my knowledge never ever mentioned, so point stands, the map is still huge. As far as i know Luiz wasn't even Conte's first choice. He actually preferred Koulibaly, so another one who could be taken into consideration. I'm not sure van Dijk is that good, seems very attacking and all over the place, Gimenez and Bailly partnership is too young for a Premiership winning side these days, IMO.
The important thing must be to make absolutely sure that the new guy is a lot and i mean a lot better compared to the player's we're already having. I'd be careful with Lindelöf.
Club spent an estimated amount of 150 mil. for four new players. Taking Champions-League football next season for granted (it really is a must), money will come in, so one Galactico signing should be possible. Club won't buy two of them. Either you stock up your firepower our set up the defence more nicely. Personally, i'd take defence as priority, because i have no confidence in the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo or Blind doing it consistently. I don't think a big player would be joining in winter, most of them still participate in the Champions-League, not worth making up for it by paying over the odds, IMO.
Not at the expense of an experienced player. If we buy top quality, find a taker for Rojo and Mourinho is still happy, why not?! So far, a talent from a lower league is one risky business, one has to be sure, otherwise it's suicide. Everything can happen and afterwards not much of a chance to recoup most of the already invested money.
Taking a closer look at the defence next season, one year older by then:
- Bailly (23)
- Shaw (22)
- Valencia (32)
What i see is more or less three headless chicken. No need for another one. What we need is being able to shut up shop any time we want to but it ain't happening without a mad, demanding cock right in the middle. David Luiz is showing the world what Chelsea's been missing.
Do you really want the Premiership's most lethal hitmen coming for a 23 years of age central defence (one of them doesn't even know the league)?! There will be mistakes and some of them will turn out to be costly.
For most of us it's okay if we don't win the league this season, but next season -next season we go for it! I've seen enough of this season to believe that we need more leadership at the back and that comes with experience earned the hard way in Europe's top leagues, so pay up!
I'm not sure why it matters. Neither was Terry, Ayala or Cannavaro. We have two very tall and exceptionally quick defenders in Smalling and Bailly. But these two should be sufficient and more than good enough, and Jones (given no injuries) should be a good enough squad player. But Jones should be replaced due to the injuries.
As long as he has a football brain he is better than someone like Rojo. Weird choice though, would have thought we wanted a plug and play experienced CB who is dominant aerially and good on the ball.
I don't know this lad v well but from comments seems he is just a generally ok player who might be good with time?
I don't know this lad v well but from comments seems he is just a generally ok player who might be good with time?
I don't know about Boateng's issues at Bayern but I still find it highly unlikely they'ld let him go regardless, more likely Ancelotti would be gone before it got to that, and there's no way we'd pay Pogba money for him or any of the other experienced CB's, the reason we'd pay it for an attacker is they are huge commercial assets that can bring revenue in, ugly perhaps but the truth of the busienss of football.
According to the 2 Benfica fans posting in this thread Lindelof's most impressive aspect is his brain and use of the ball, so that sounds to me like what we need next to Bailly. I'm not agasint the experiecned CB argument at all, I just feel certain we wont pay the type of fees mentioned to get any of the elite ones, it'll be more a case of building a young partnership.
I would trust Jose and his scouts if we went for Lindelof, much like with Bailly I have not seen much of him so I am not pinning my flag to the mast here, but just like with Bailly once again Jose knew best when it came to CB's, his bread and butter in the transfer market over the years.
I'm not sure what our spending will be to be honest mate and I am not sure it needs to be as big on one player as it was last summer, but if we do drop marquee money on a player I am sure it will be a forward, most probably Griezmann.
To those who say Lindelof is slow, have you even watched him?
He is actually quite fast, strong and really good in the air.
He is definitely much better then our current sets of CB (except Bailly of course).
He is actually quite fast, strong and really good in the air.
He is definitely much better then our current sets of CB (except Bailly of course).
Age doesn’t always indicate maturity. I mean look at OShea. He was actually better when he was younger (his first season in first team). Smalling has the football brains of some 18 year old playing for Maidstone United and that despite being 27 year old and EPL proven. On the other hand people who had the opportunity to watch Baresi and Maldini since their debut would testify that they showed great maturity from day 1. Bailly may not be a leader, but he’s holding the fort quite well, despite his young age.
I always thought that our managers underestimated our defensive problems and that the problem will bite us back pretty soon. Smalling and Jones have the football brain of a calculator with the latter being pretty injury prone, Blind is a midfielder and Rojo is a disaster waiting to happen. On the right we play a failed winger whose backed by wingback while on the left we’ve got another injury prone defender whose greatly rated but has yet to justify the hype. Bailly was a good addition to the team but I never thought he could do it by himself.
Linderhof might not be the ideal solution but it’s always difficult to sign in January without getting ripped off. TBF we won’t get ripped off in this deal because he’s got a minimum fee clause which is quite realistic. Also, let’s face it, I doubt that we’re sort the issue with Linderhof. Valencia is growing old, Darmian is horrible and Shaw and Jones love their time in the treatment room. So there’s still plenty of space to squeeze an experienced defender in
Forum experts don't really need to see a player to have an opinion of how good he is these days. Hardly something new though
Is he great in terms of facial expressions?
Jones's seal of approval..
Stuff like the bold part is how you can identify people who've not seen him play much. Lindelöf is rather quick for a centerback, and an excellent tracker in recovery (could even sample that with the way he contained Guerreiro as a rightback last summer). Not sure what the the 'not very tall' part is about, either - he's about 6'2", which is tall enough for a centerback, especially when you combine it with with his tenacity and vertical 'leap'. The best centerback in the world isn't taller (Godín), the best centerback in the world before him wasn't taller (Thiago), and arguably the best centerback in the league isn't taller (Alderweireld).
This isn't track and field - there's a lot of overblown focus on athletic and physical metrics instead of looking at things that really matter - footballing ability, defensive nous, determination for improvement, and intangible traits that can elevate certain players above their peers. Dunno if he's ready to be a first team starter for United just yet coming from the Primeira Liga (even though he was a standout vs Bayern in Europe, and a vital cog for the Swedish U-21 team that unexpectedly won the EUROs), and maybe we should be buying in the Giménez/Laporte tier of more proven young defenders - but Lindelöf certainly has the tools and apparent mentality to become a quality centerback.
The big aesthetic/functional issue is that he is a bit similar to Bailly in terms of defensive profile, and you get the sense that it would be a Ramos + Pepe type of 'hardman + hardman', but overall slightly rash central defense.
I've actually watched Victors development from when he was just 15 years old playing for my local club (which I played for myself for almost 15 years). Well, of course, I missed watching him a couple of years when he was in Benfica B but still..
The thing with him is that he always seems adept to the level of play.
He was good, not dominant, in the team which won Swedish third tier and got promoted to the second tier. He was good, not dominant, in the second tier. When he got called up to the Swedish u-21 team he was good, not dominant. The same for when he finally had the chance in Benfica and Swedens national team. The thing is, that's what you want from central defenders. Do your work, never mess up. No need to be "dominant" and be the shining star every game.
He's really good with his feet. Calm and controlled with quality passes. He is also pretty good in the air with ambitions "to never lose a header". I think he would be a good partner for Bailly with his quality set up passes and good position play.
I think he's ready for PL and will continue to develop to a great defender. Not sure he will become world class like top 7-8 defenders in the world, but def good enough to play in a team racing for titles. Maybe he already is, its pretty hard to evaluate the quality of Primiera Liga.
Whilst talking about Victor. This is worth reading. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/09/benfica-vasteras-victor-nilsson-lindelof
My conclusion: F*ck Benfica.
The thing with him is that he always seems adept to the level of play.
He was good, not dominant, in the team which won Swedish third tier and got promoted to the second tier. He was good, not dominant, in the second tier. When he got called up to the Swedish u-21 team he was good, not dominant. The same for when he finally had the chance in Benfica and Swedens national team. The thing is, that's what you want from central defenders. Do your work, never mess up. No need to be "dominant" and be the shining star every game.
He's really good with his feet. Calm and controlled with quality passes. He is also pretty good in the air with ambitions "to never lose a header". I think he would be a good partner for Bailly with his quality set up passes and good position play.
I think he's ready for PL and will continue to develop to a great defender. Not sure he will become world class like top 7-8 defenders in the world, but def good enough to play in a team racing for titles. Maybe he already is, its pretty hard to evaluate the quality of Primiera Liga.
Whilst talking about Victor. This is worth reading. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/09/benfica-vasteras-victor-nilsson-lindelof
My conclusion: F*ck Benfica.
I come from an area in the world that love defenders. aS @Wythenshawe said, defenders should be good in defending first and then the rest is a bonus. Sure the time when a defender would shoot the ball at the stands at the first hint of pressure is long over. There again, I can't understand this obsession with ball playing defenders either.
Also teams will never be able to win without a top quality defense and there will never be a top quality defense if it keep changing personnel. Teams who had the best defenses in the world knew exactly what the defensive lineup will be and that stability was one of the reasons why they were so strong. Case in point is the AC Milan star studded defense (Tassotti-Baresi-Costacurta-Maldini) or the United best defense ever (Gaz-Rio-Vidic-Evra).
Also teams will never be able to win without a top quality defense and there will never be a top quality defense if it keep changing personnel. Teams who had the best defenses in the world knew exactly what the defensive lineup will be and that stability was one of the reasons why they were so strong. Case in point is the AC Milan star studded defense (Tassotti-Baresi-Costacurta-Maldini) or the United best defense ever (Gaz-Rio-Vidic-Evra).
You fail to mention Rojo or Eric. They both have a poor injury recordsfor United as well.
Our English players are so greatly blamed for everything. Laughed my head off when posters were blaming Carrick for being the leak in the camp.
I honestly don't see us signing an upgrade on what we have in January and spending tens of millions on players who are no better and less proven, is very unappealing.
Eric who? Bailly? He's been with us for just few months ffs! The likes of Jones had been in the treatment room enough for us to consider making a monument for him (the crocked trinity ie Hargreaves, Jones and Saha)
You described Lindelof's style perfectly. He is regular, rarely makes a mistake and does his work without fuss.
No need to insult Benfica. Benfica is well known for its charity both in and out of country. If Benfica is refusing to pay such money, it is because it has its legal rights. I simply don't see Benfica messing up on that department. Every club/institution praises Benfica payment schedules and overall competence, except Vasteras apparently.
they are probably being d*cks similarly as big clubs (us included) tend to do. It will be poetic licence when United signs the boy for a measly £23m because of his minimum clause fee
I care not about your ffs. Time out v time played! Here months v injured months. Im not denying Phil has missed great a amount of playing time due to injury. Simply pointing out all of our defenders get injured on a regular basis. Yet Chris and Phil are always the first mentioned.
They had been here longer and therefore they have the longest injury list. No one expects players not to get injured time to time especially defenders. But Jones track record is almost tragic (bordering to the hilarious).
Injury prone players were always criticized in redcafe. From Hargreaves to Owen right to the likes of Jones, the Crocked twins and Saha, the United fans have poor tolerance towards them. TBF I don't blame them. Our beloved club seem to have endless patience with them. It will support them all the way and will wait eagerly for any hint of recovery to handle them a contract extension only to look surprised that these players returned to the treatment room soon after they signed the contract extension. Meanwhile once these boys are at the treatment room, they get hyped almost to the ridiculous. Fabio Da Silva became like some sort of legend for us despite barely ever touched the ball for us.
To put things into perspective, AC Milan waited for Van Basten to recover for just 2 years. We're talking here of Van Basten, one of the finest players in the world not someone whose biggest contribution to football was headbutting the pitch. Barcelona was far less patient than that. They basically sent Diego Armando Maradona home to rot because of a cruciate ligament injury. Its one thing being an arse (Barcelona was an arse with Maradona) and its one thing being so supportive that your own players ends up taking you for a ride
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Charity is good and well.. I'm sorry if I offended you. But that's my feelings, based on Benficas act and since I "know" whats being said in the contract between the clubs.
I think they´re just trying to take advantage of being a big club with economic muscles compared to a really small team. I don't think it's about the 250.000€. It's about making the clauses go away because Västerås SK has rights to ~20% of his selling price, and then we talk some really big money (even tho 250.000 € is 50% of the yearly revenue for Västerås SK).
Well, this thread is not about that, even tho it could become a really important guideline for making future clauses in contracts. I'm glad we're at the same page regarding describing his skills on the pitch.
Do we really need to spend £30M on this player?
Its £23m
I get what you are saying and I agree with you when you say that this whole situation was caused (especially) due to the eventual transfer rights... Then we will be talking millions, potentially 6-7 M€ and that's a lot of cash even by Benfica's standards. I'd be gutted in your position too, that's completely understandable. I'd guess that Vasteras negotiated in an amateurish way and were caught outside of their depth. That would be very unfortunate for you, but a valuable lesson nonetheless. In any case, Vasteras holds the formation rights (1,5-3% I think) and that will represent at least the 250.000€...Charity is good and well.. I'm sorry if I offended you. But that's my feelings, based on Benficas act and since I "know" whats being said in the contract between the clubs.
I think they´re just trying to take advantage of being a big club with economic muscles compared to a really small team. I don't think it's about the 250.000€. It's about making the clauses go away because Västerås SK has rights to ~20% of his selling price, and then we talk some really big money (even tho 250.000 € is 50% of the yearly revenue for Västerås SK).
Well, this thread is not about that, even tho it could become a really important guideline for making future clauses in contracts. I'm glad we're at the same page regarding describing his skills on the pitch.
I wish all the best for your club, I really do. Lindelof has been one of my fav players over the years and it was with great satisfaction that I saw his affirmation. We know he really loves the club and he is quality. If Benfica was capable of maintaining its best young players for longer... I'd choose Lindelof everyday.
Is this happening then?
Assuming Benfica wont sell if they qualify for the CL Knockout stages, how close are they to actually qualifying?
Can they stop the deal? There's a minimum clause involved
It's a bit up in the air, they might have to beat Napoli in their final group game but it also depends on the Besiktas result against Dynamo Kiev.
Thanks, looked at the group table but couldn't figure out who needed what or who played who as I didn't have the fixtures.
I imagine they cant unless its a release clause like the one Liverpool had with Suarez, that activating it only allows you to speak with the player.
Even if they drop into the Europa League I can't see them wanting to sell
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-target-benficas-victor-9377256
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-target-benficas-victor-9377256
Prime target according to Dunc. Skysports said the same a couple of weeks ago too I think. Benfica usually have some good defenders, mate for Zlatan too
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-target-benficas-victor-9377256
Prime target according to Dunc. Skysports said the same a couple of weeks ago too I think. Benfica usually have some good defenders, mate for Zlatan too
Dunno if it's been mentioned but when he was playing for Benfica B; the coaches and players started calling him Iceman for his composed and reliable play. I mean, that's high praise to receive as a 18-19 year-old. Showing such maturity can only be a good thing.
I watched him playing for Sweden as a right-back when they won the U21 and he stood out with a few others in that group for sure. He's been rock solid for both Benfica and Sweden. I don't think age is a problem with this player.
If Mourinho thinks he's ready then i'm all for it.
I watched him playing for Sweden as a right-back when they won the U21 and he stood out with a few others in that group for sure. He's been rock solid for both Benfica and Sweden. I don't think age is a problem with this player.
If Mourinho thinks he's ready then i'm all for it.
Important things in thread: our scouts are looking at him and may decide to sign him
Unimportant things: our fans have watched YouTube videos and think his ceiling isn't world class
Unimportant things: our fans have watched YouTube videos and think his ceiling isn't world class
Some of our fans were saying the same shit about Bailly in the summer.
Depay looked better than Martial on YouTube too.
Put on the Benfica-Napoli match to check him out & he gets beat by a nice little flick for a Napoli goal.
Oops.
Oops.
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