Vincent Kompany: Man City quadruple a matter of time | Next year?

[schwalbe]

No team is going to win CL without element of luck involved, so it's not about winning it. The problem with Guardiola is how it played out every time Bayern got to semi finals and faced one of the other 3 paper favorites for the CL title. His tactical approach was successfully countered by all 3 opponents.

2014. Bayern 0-5 Real Madrid
2015. Bayern 3-5 Barcelona
2016. Bayern 2-2 Atletico

When that happens 3 years in a row then it changes perspective for some people and you can't really blame them for seeing it differently and calling it a failure.

The first one was the big feck up, the other two weren't failures. Against Barca both Ribery and Robben were injured and if Lewandowski hadn't missed absolute sitters the scoreline would have looked much better.
We were the much better team against Atletico and should have easily won, Bayern just failed to score often enough.
I don't even like Pep and i'm happy he's gone, but calling the CL runs a failure is at least questionable. His approach for away games in the CL is horrible though. Bayern only won one out of 9 matches away from home in the CL knockout stages and we didn't only play teams like Barca.

 

[m1y2]

Never happened.

I hope that he fails at Man City, but that is far from certain, and would not undo his records he did at Barca and Bayern.

who was the coach then? http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsle...round=2000350/match=2009610/postmatch/report/

7:0 on aggregate oh you're right it was Villanova.. Guardiola was so Barca bound in my head that it became one... he got thrashed however by Barcelona when in Bayern 4:0

 

[Revan]

who was the coach then? http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsle...round=2000350/match=2009610/postmatch/report/

7:0 on aggregate oh you're right it was Villanova.. Guardiola was so Barca bound in my head that it became one... he got thrashed however by Barcelona when in Bayern 4:0

Hmm, again never happened. It was 5-2 which is slightly better. To be fair to him, Bayern was without Robbery that tie.

 

[Shane88]

Wouldn't be surprised if he heads off to China in the summer. Seems to be completely ravaged by injuries.

 

[pilky02]

Seriously? look at his trophy haul compared to the French Fraud

why has it always got to be French this and French that, pathetic comment really. Do people have to be defined by their race?. Don't worry though i won't report you Inigo .

Seriously though i got flagged up for you taking offence at me for calling Bakayoko the black Fellaini and i click on your name and find this and you calling rashford an overrated English kid??? Something about a teapot and kettle comes to mind pal but you might kick up a fuss if i type out the whole saying.

 

[Paxi]

Wouldn't be surprised if he heads off to China in the summer. Seems to be completely ravaged by injuries.

Yeah if they're going to win a quadruple, itll definitely be without him.

 

[U99ted]

Hmm, again never happened. It was 5-2 which is slightly better. To be fair to him, Bayern was without Robbery that tie.

That must be why they beat Arson 10-2 recently.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

why has it always got to be French this and French that, pathetic comment really. Do people have to be defined by their race?. Don't worry though i won't report you Inigo .

Seriously though i got flagged up for you taking offence at me for calling Bakayoko the black Fellaini and i click on your name and find this and you calling rashford an overrated English kid??? Something about a teapot and kettle comes to mind pal but you might kick up a fuss if i type out the whole saying.

I have nothing to add to this conversation, but I just wanted to say - I think you should be promoted on the strength of your username and location info alone. Bravo.

You're an idiot, play a record.

 

[Infordin]

he had just luck and Messi at Barca, good timing for him and club he knows through and through but he's just not very good manager, at Bayern he had another best team in a country by a mile and we can say the domestic title was expectedbut he failed miserabely in the CL,so he did now and struggling big time in the league too...

After Ferguson won the treble in 99, he didn't win another CL until 2008. He didn't reach a single final during this 9 year span, and only reached 2 semifinals. He even got knocked out in the groupstage in 2006. Nobody questions Ferguson's reputation as an elite manager.

Guardiola reached three consecutive semifinals during his time at Bayern but failed miserably in the CL, apparently.

 

[roonster09]

After Ferguson won the treble in 99, he didn't win another CL until 2008. He didn't reach a single final during this 9 year span, and only reached 2 semifinals. He even got knocked out in the groupstage in 2006. Nobody questions Ferguson's reputation as an elite manager.

Guardiola reached three consecutive semifinals during his time at Bayern but failed miserably in the CL, apparently.

Ferguson didn't have the best squad in the world and PL didn't have all the best players either. I wouldn't say Pep failed miserably but he didn't achieve what Bayern wanted. Bundesliga was easy when 2nd team kept on losing it's best players and Bayern had a team that was so much better than the 2nd team, CL was the biggest test and he failed against all the Spanish big 3.

Jose also reached 3 semi finals with Madrid but most think he wasn't a success at Madrid even when he was the only manager to win La Liga in around 8 years.

 

[ti vu]

Ferguson didn't have the best squad in the world and PL didn't have all the best players either. I wouldn't say Pep failed miserably but he didn't achieve what Bayern wanted. Bundesliga was easy when 2nd team kept on losing it's best players and Bayern had a team that was so much better than the 2nd team, CL was the biggest test and he failed against all the Spanish big 3.

Jose also reached 3 semi finals with Madrid but most think he wasn't a success at Madrid even when he was the only manager to win La Liga in around 8 years.

SAF admitted it (?) that he approached CL wrongly for most early part of his career. Losing that CL tie vs Milan in 2007 did really change him & taught him some valuable lesson he applied to his team: Carrick role, midfield 3, mobile position interchanging front lines... We could see we turned more pragmatic but arguably better in CL with resource. Our decline toward SAF's retirement is more down to individual players' quality than with tactic which the pre 2007 SAF was often considered naive.

 

[roonster09]

SAF admitted it (?) that he approached CL wrongly for most early part of his career. Losing that CL tie vs Milan in 2007 did really changed him & we could see we turned more pragmatic but arguably better in CL with resource. Our decline toward SAF's retirement is more with individual players' quality than with tactic which the pre 2007 was often considered naive.

Yeah SAF wasn't very good in CL as he was in the later years but losing in 2007 was down to injuries. From 2007 he was very good though.

 

[ti vu]

Yeah SAF wasn't very good in CL as he was in the later years but losing in 2007 was down to injuries. From 2007 he was very good though.

I don't disagree. It plays huge part in the problem. Watching that game countless time, I think another part of the problem is still the way SAF approach game (the first leg is a vital one that decided the tie than second leg). We played Carrick Fletcher & Scholes in midfield, but differently than later years. Scholes played more purely as no 10. Carrick & Fletch were utilized more of box to box role which never suits Carrick & it let too much space for Kaka in his prime to operate just before our (make shift) defense line. In later years, it would be Carrick sits deep, the 2 other midfielders or a roaming forward play hybrid roles, no traditional no 10. That's truly more 3 men midfield. What SAF did were trying to blow Milan apart meaning we're also more open to be countered. That midfield is more like what Mourinho is trying to implement with Herrera being Carrick's (misused) position, Pogba in Fletcher place & Mkhi or a new no 10/ second forward next season in Scholes' place.

SAF in latter years approached game better. We lost Vida & Brown vs Barcelona next season & we still pretty approached the game the right way. The blend between being defensive & attacking was better, not just on personnel level but also tactical level. Less space between the defense line & midfield like with this AC Milan game even for home game where we go for goal on other end.

Edit: (bolded part) Rewatch Kaka's first goal. Neither players positioning wrongly Heinze & Carrick. Just that the tactic, roles assigned to them asking a lot for them to step up taking responsibility (CB step into midfield, a part of 2 men midfield has to drop deep pick up floating attacker playing in pocket of space) which against their natural game: Carrick doesn't like to running around alot; Heinze doesn't like to a foot race with attack which he's either close to them when playing on the wing or trying keep distance so he can recover with last ditch tackle. Kaka was just tactically deployed perfectly to destroy both of them

Edit 2: Back to the topic, SAF's greatest strength beside man management, is his adaption ability. He's stubborn in certain scenario, but he reinvented himself over the years. Adaption however seems like Pep, LVG, Klopp... the purists' weakness. Adapting may require changing fundamental ideas. The coaches I listed may tweak here & there but their fundamental ideas is the same.

 

[roonster09]

I don't disagree. It plays huge part in the problem. Watching that game countless time, I think another part of the problem is still the way SAF approach game (the first leg is a vital one that decided the tie than second leg). We played Carrick Fletcher & Scholes in midfield, but differently than later years. Scholes played more purely as no 10. Carrick & Fletch were utilized more of box to box role which never suits Carrick & it let too much space for Kaka in his prime to operate just before our (make shift) defense line. In later years, it would be Carrick sits deep, the 2 other midfielders or a roaming forward play hybrid roles, no traditional no 10. That's truly more 3 men midfield. What SAF did were trying to blow Milan apart meaning we're also more open to be countered. That midfield is more like what Mourinho is trying to implement with Herrera being Carrick's (misused) position, Pogba in Fletcher place & Mkhi or a new no 10/ second forward next season in Scholes' place.

SAF in latter years approached game better. We lost Vida & Brown vs Barcelona next season & we still pretty approached the game the right way. The blend between being defensive & attacking was better, not just on personnel level but also tactical level. Less space between the defense line & midfield like with this AC Milan game even for home game where we go for goal on other end.

Edit: (bolded part) Rewatch Kaka's first goal. Neither players positioning wrongly Heinze & Carrick. Just that the tactic, roles assigned to them asking a lot for them to step up taking responsibility (CB step into midfield, a part of 2 men midfield has to drop deep pick up floating attacker playing in pocket of space) which against their natural game: Carrick doesn't like to running around alot; Heinze doesn't like to a foot race with attack which he's either close to them when playing on the wing or trying keep distance so he can recover with last ditch tackle. Kaka was just tactically deployed perfectly to destroy both of them

Like I said we weren't tactically great but our whole defense was injured. First leg we played with O'Shea - Brown - Heinze - Evra. Except Evra whole defense was back ups, Heinze and Evra rotated at LB but we left with no choice but to play Heinze as CB.

Second leg we rushed back Vidic, still had Neville and Rio out.

What I'm saying is the tie could have been lot better if not for so many injuries in defense.

 

[ti vu]

Like I said we weren't tactically great but our whole defense was injured. First leg we played with O'Shea - Brown - Heinze - Evra. Except Evra whole defense was back ups, Heinze and Evra rotated at LB but we left with no choice but to play Heinze as CB.

Second leg we rushed back Vidic, still had Neville and Rio out.

What I'm saying is the tie could have been lot better if not for so many injuries in defense.

I didn't disagree in previous post or now. Just trying to explore the tactical side of it; thus saying that SAF after this season was more comfortable to entertain the idea of playing as underdog & adapted his team to the circumstances which this game SAF was still his naive self.

I just had a edit part 2 in my previous post.

 

[roonster09]

I didn't disagree in previous post or now. Just trying to explore the tactical side of it; and saying that SAF after this season was more comfortable to entertain the idea of playing underdog & adapt his team to the circumstances which this game SAF was still his naive self.

I just had a edit part 2 in my previous post.

I agreed with your post but I just wanted to continue my excuses

Yeah, one of the best quality of SAF is his willingness to adapt to modern football. Not only on tactical front but also on man management side.

 

[Infordin]

What I'm saying is the tie could have been lot better if not for so many injuries in defense.

That's true, but it wasn't just a make-shift defence that cost United, you lost the midfield battle to Milan. They played a 4-3-2-1 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Ambrosini-Seedorf-Kaka.

The only time in that tie when you looked better than Milan was when Gattuso went off injured (the final 40 minutes at Old Trafford). Otherwise Milan were clearly the best team and controlled the remaining 140 minutes of both games.

I don't think that you would have stopped Milan from winning even if you had Rio and Vidic fit, because Ancelotti outsmarted SAF and won the battle in the midfield.

 

[ti vu]

That's true, but it wasn't just a make-shift defence that cost United, you lost the midfield battle to Milan. They played a 4-3-2-1 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Ambrosini-Seedorf-Kaka.

The only time in that tie when you looked better than Milan was when Gattuso went off injured (the final 40 minutes at Old Trafford). Otherwise Milan were clearly the best team and controlled the remaining 140 minutes of both games.

I don't think that you would have stopped Milan from winning even if you had Rio and Vidic fit, because Ancelotti outsmarted SAF and won the battle in the midfield.

So now we're on agree term on one matter: SAF was naive until IMO season 2007-2008; do you agree that the challenge for Pep would be adapting, changing fundamental ideas of his style in case he couldn't find the resource to build a team that can carry out his ideas to fullest like the Barcelona team? And using SAF's naive years wouldn't be an good excuse for Pep as SAF had his regrets regarding CL & he wished he would have realized sooner than he did.

 

[Nighteyes]

That's true, but it wasn't just a make-shift defence that cost United, you lost the midfield battle to Milan. They played a 4-3-2-1 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Ambrosini-Seedorf-Kaka.

The only time in that tie when you looked better than Milan was when Gattuso went off injured (the final 40 minutes at Old Trafford). Otherwise Milan were clearly the best team and controlled the remaining 140 minutes of both games.

I don't think that you would have stopped Milan from winning even if you had Rio and Vidic fit, because Ancelotti outsmarted SAF and won the battle in the midfield.

Nah. We lost because most of our defense was either unfit or injured. Not just that but we had a very small squad fighting very hard in 3 completions while Milan could afford to rest loads of players before games. We went to Milan on the back of a brutal game at Everton which pretty much drained us.

 

[roonster09]

That's true, but it wasn't just a make-shift defence that cost United, you lost the midfield battle to Milan. They played a 4-3-2-1 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Ambrosini-Seedorf-Kaka.

The only time in that tie when you looked better than Milan was when Gattuso went off injured (the final 40 minutes at Old Trafford). Otherwise Milan were clearly the best team and controlled the remaining 140 minutes of both games.

I don't think that you would have stopped Milan from winning even if you had Rio and Vidic fit, because Ancelotti outsmarted SAF and won the battle in the midfield.

No. We had plenty of chances at Old trafford too which we failed to convert. Our defense was the big problem, like I said we played our back up players in 3 of the 4 positions in first leg and 2 out of 4 in Milan.

I remember Gattuso kept on fouling Ronaldo and escaping cards though.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

why has it always got to be French this and French that, pathetic comment really. Do people have to be defined by their race?. Don't worry though i won't report you Inigo .

Seriously though i got flagged up for you taking offence at me for calling Bakayoko the black Fellaini and i click on your name and find this and you calling rashford an overrated English kid??? Something about a teapot and kettle comes to mind pal but you might kick up a fuss if i type out the whole saying.

Ooh! Looks like someone got their fingers burnt

 

[pilky02]

Ooh! Looks like someone got their fingers burnt

Try to delete your contradictions before signalling your virtue next time or you may out yourself as a bit of a hypocrite again. Feck me decency eyy?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Try to delete your contradictions before signalling your virtue next time or you may out yourself as a bit of a hypocrite again. Feck me decency eyy?

Ouch, that would hurt but I don't give a feck!

Try not to racially stereotype people seeing as you have the monopoly on virtue

 

[Needham]

You'll never ever see another English team do the treble.

 

[Verbalkint]

Relax, guys...he was referring to the moral quadruple of course. They've already earned it i'm guessing.

 

[Irrational.]

I believe Kompany has been misinterpreted here. What he meant was, it's only a matter of time before he gets another quadriceps injury. Which isn't an exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination. Typical rag British media.

 

[littleman]

So now we're on agree term on one matter: SAF was naive until IMO season 2007-2008; do you agree that the challenge for Pep would be adapting, changing fundamental ideas of his style in case he couldn't find the resource to build a team that can carry out his ideas to fullest like the Barcelona team? And using SAF's naive years wouldn't be an good excuse for Pep as SAF had his regrets regarding CL & he wished he would have realized sooner than he did.

This is not true, he recognised his own "naivety" much earlier but the team could only evolve so far, especially with a British core.

 

[padr81]

I believe Kompany has been misinterpreted here. What he meant was, it's only a matter of time before he gets another quadriceps injury. Which isn't an exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination. Typical rag British media.

Vk's issues are his calf mainly but imho I think a quadruple for him is playing about 5 minutes in the Premiership, 5 in the CL, 5 in the FA Cup and 5 in the League Cup in a season.
Its a big ask for Vinnie but as soon as he achieves it he'll aim for the quintuple of the previous 4 and hopefully add 5 minutes in the Charity Shield as well.

 

[Invictus]

Vk's issues are his calf mainly but imho I think a quadruple for him is playing about 5 minutes in the Premiership, 5 in the CL, 5 in the FA Cup and 5 in the League Cup in a season.
Its a big ask for Vinnie but as soon as he achieves it he'll aim for the quintuple of the previous 4 and hopefully add 5 minutes in the Charity Shield minutes as well.

 

[Irrational.]

Vk's issues are his calf mainly but imho I think a quadruple for him is playing about 5 minutes in the Premiership, 5 in the CL, 5 in the FA Cup and 5 in the League Cup in a season.
Its a big ask for Vinnie but as soon as he achieves it he'll aim for the quintuple of the previous 4 and hopefully add 5 minutes in the Charity Shield as well.

Well played sir

 

[ti vu]

This is not true, he recognised his own "naivety" much earlier but the team could only evolve so far, especially with a British core.

It's your opinion, I won't say it's wrong. I have mine which I can point out the difference in SAF's tactic with similar set of players (see my following post of that discussion).

 

[20solskjaer]

No team is going to win CL without element of luck involved, so it's not about winning it. The problem with Guardiola is how it played out every time Bayern got to semi finals and faced one of the other 3 paper favorites for the CL title. His tactical approach was successfully countered by all 3 opponents.

2014. Bayern 0-5 Real Madrid
2015. Bayern 3-5 Barcelona
2016. Bayern 2-2 Atletico

When that happens 3 years in a row then it changes perspective for some people and you can't really blame them for seeing it differently and calling it a failure.

Isnt this normal for everyone when theres only 4 teams left in the competition?

 

[psychdelicblues]

Oh well...

 

[AR87]

The gift that keeps on giving

 

[bleedred]

Quadralol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Stain]

Nice bump

 

[Irrational.]

Such a raggish tint on things. What he actually meant was (being out of) the quadruple only a matter of time.

 

[MullerUtd]

His expression at the end says it all.
Don't worry Vinny, there's still next season.

 

[stubie]

Remember when Jamie Redknapp was w****** over Guardiola's arrival

 

[Skills]

Trophyless for 2 seasons out of 3 now.