Volkswagen Admits to Cheating US Emissions Tests

Sir Matt

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/21/usa-volkswagen-idINL5N11R0TU20150921


* VW shares fall nearly 20 pct for 14 bln euro market cap drop

* U.S. EPA says to widen probe to other carmakers

* U.S. Justice Department starts criminal probe -Bloomberg

* VW initially denied trying to game inspections

* Germany also to investigate carmakers' emissions data (Adds White House 'quite concerned', VW CEO pledge on German testing, Bloomberg report on DOJ probe.)

By Andreas Cremer and Valerie Volcovici

BERLIN/WASHINGTON, Sept 21 (Reuters) - Volkswagen shares plunged by nearly 20 percent on Monday after the German carmaker admitted it had rigged emissions tests of diesel-powered vehicles in the United States, and U.S. authorities said they would widen their probe to other automakers.

German officials, alarmed at the potential damage the scandal could inflict on its car industry, urged Volkswagen to fully clear up the matter and said it would investigate whether emissions data had also been falsified in Europe.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said on Friday the world's biggest carmaker by sales used software for diesel VW and Audi branded cars that deceived regulators measuring toxic emissions and could face penalties of up to $18 billion.

The scandal reverberated on Monday with the White House saying it was "quite concerned" about the reports of VW's conduct. And the U.S. Department of Justice started a criminal probe of the effort to game the emissions tests, Bloomberg News reported.

The EPA and California officials said on Monday they would test diesel vehicles from other manufacturers for similar violations. In addition to Volkswagen, automakers including General Motors Co and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles sell diesel cars and SUVs in the United States.

"You will understand that we are worried that the justifiably excellent reputation of the German car industry and in particular that of Volkswagen suffers," German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel said.

VW shares fell 18.6 percent to close at 132.20 euros, wiping some 14 billion euros ($15.6 billion) off its market cap. Shares in Porsche SE, a holding company which controls 51 percent of VW's common stock, also plunged around 20 percent, while the European autos index was down 4.1 percent.

Volkswagen Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn has promised to support testing by German authorities of the company's diesel cars, Germany's Transport Ministry said on Monday.

Winterkorn said on Sunday he was "deeply sorry" for the breach of U.S. rules and ordered an investigation. People including a VW supervisory board member said Winterkorn may have to resign.

"This disaster is beyond all expectations," said Ferdinand Dudenhoeffer, head of the Center of Automotive Research at the University of Duisburg-Essen.

Analysts said it was unclear whether other automakers had also broken rules or what the ultimate cost could be for VW, which reported 2014 net income of 10.84 billion euros ($12.15 billion) according to Thomson Reuters data.

German rivals Daimler and BMW said the accusations made by U.S. authorities against VW did not apply to them.

Industry experts predicted the scandal would hit VW hard, just as it was hoping to move on from a damaging leadership battle, with a supervisory board meeting on Friday due to discuss a new company structure and management line-up.

Winterkorn, who saw off a challenge to his authority with the ousting of long-time chairman Ferdinand Piech, ran the VW brand between 2007 and 2015, including the six-year period when some of its models were found violating U.S. clean air rules.





"DEFEAT DEVICE"

Evidence of increased toxic emissions at VW first emerged in 2014, prompting the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to start investigating VW, a letter by CARB to VW dated Sept. 18 showed.

Volkswagen initially denied it was trying to game the inspections, attributing the higher emissions readings to "various technical issues and unexpected in-use conditions," the EPA said in its formal notice of violations on Friday.

The stonewalling continued until the agency threatened to withhold certification for the carmaker's 2016 models, the EPA said.

"Only then did VW admit it had designed and installed a defeat device" that purposely lowered emissions while it was being inspected, the agency said. During regular driving, emissions would return to a much higher level, boosting the car's performance.

Any decision on emissions control mechanisms would have been taken at the group's Wolfsburg headquarters and not by regional divisions, a source close to Volkswagen said.

Germany's Robert Bosch supplies diesel emissions control devices to VW, an industry source said. Asked whether Bosch had supplied the electronic module central to the EPA test findings, a company spokesman said: "We supply components for exhaust after-treatment to several manufacturers. The integration is the responsibility of the manufacturer."

The way carmakers test vehicles has been coming under growing scrutiny from regulators worldwide amid complaints from environmental groups that they use loopholes in the rules to exaggerate fuel-saving and emissions results.

In 2013, an Indian government-named panel accused GM of flouting testing regulations by fitting engines with low emissions in vehicles sent for inspection. And in 2014, Hyundai Motor Co and affiliate Kia Motors Corp paid $350 million in penalties to the U.S. for overstating fuel economy ratings.

The European Commission said it was in contact with VW and U.S. regulators, but that it was too early to say whether any specific immediate surveillance measures were needed in Europe or whether VW vehicles in Europe were also affected.

VW overtook Japan's Toyota in the first half of this year to become the world's biggest carmaker by sales, but is facing a sharp slowdown in its most profitable market, China.

The U.S. scandal also adds to the challenge it faces in reviving its North American business, which has long lagged its performance elsewhere.



"HUGE LOSS OF TRUST"

Ingo Speich, a fund manager at Union Investment that owns about 0.4 percent of VW shares, said he was braced for the crisis to spread for the carmaker that makes vehicles from budget Seats and Skodas to luxury Bentleys and Lamborghinis.

"The market is anticipating more than just the U.S. issue. We have to admit that just looking at the facts there is a huge loss of trust in management," he said.

Exane BNP analysts said VW's problems could have wider implications for diesel vehicles, which have long struggled to gain a foothold in the U.S. market.

Bernd Osterloh, the head of VW's works council and a supervisory board member, called for those responsible to be held accountable. He said Winterkorn would resign should investigations prove he was personally responsible.

The carmaker's second-largest shareholder, the German state of Lower Saxony, said, however, that decisions would have to wait until the crisis had been "fully and thoroughly" examined.

As well as regulatory fines, analysts said VW could be hit by a drop in sales and lawsuits from shareholders and environmental groups.

The company has already told its U.S. dealers to stop selling the diesel models criticised by U.S. regulators, while Keller Rohrback LLP has filed a nationwide class action complaint against VW's U.S. division, saying it deliberately deceived consumers and regulators in its emissions testing.

VW's Canadian unit has also stopped selling some diesel models, the Globe and Mail newspaper reported.

Ratings agency Fitch said the deepening crisis could put pressure on the company's credit ratings. ($1 = 0.8924 euros) (Additional reporting by Gernot Heller and Markus Wacket in Berlin; Ilona Wissenbach in Stuttgart; Philip Blenkinsop and Barbara Lewis in Brussels; Writing by Christian Plumb; Editing by Mark Potter, Gareth Jones, Grant McCool)
It's one thing if there were a part that was defective because of poor quality control or negligence, but this is a willful and deliberate attempt to evade regulations. They destroyed their plausible deniability. :lol:
 

VorZakone

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Makes me wonder why people value statistics so much, feck knows how many times they've been manipulated.
 

adexkola

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It's one thing if there were a part that was defective because of poor quality control or negligence, but this is a willful and deliberate attempt to evade regulations. They destroyed their plausible deniability. :lol:
No way a genuinely negligent issue like emissions could have passed countless gates of checks and controls. This was deliberate, and it came from the top. Glad to see their stock price take a huge hit, removes the incentive for fudging industry standards and government regulations.

Makes me wonder why people value statistics so much, feck knows how many times they've been manipulated.
Huh? Despite this, statistics is very valuable. It's very hard to falsify stats and get away with it, when they need to be reproduced or checked they fall apart.
 

Sir Matt

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No way a genuinely negligent issue like emissions could have passed countless gates of checks and controls. This was deliberate, and it came from the top. Glad to see their stock price take a huge hit, removes the incentive for fudging industry standards and government regulations.



Huh? Despite this, statistics is very valuable. It's very hard to falsify stats and get away with it, when they need to be reproduced or checked they fall apart.
Of course it was intentional, but they should learn from other industries that you need to do this on a low enough level that a small-time fall guy can take one for the team. This came from HQ instead of being a "rogue staffer/trader" trying to get ahead.
 

adexkola

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Of course it was intentional, but they should learn from other industries that you need to do this on a low enough level that a small-time fall guy can take one for the team. This came from HQ instead of being a "rogue staffer/trader" trying to get ahead.
Hehe, harder to get away with that excuse in manufacturing. I recall an employee at a defense contractor accidentally emailing avionics data for military hardware to China, an ITAR violation. The government promptly slapped the company with a multi million dollar fine and threats of disbarment.

They could take a few tips from the banking sector.
 

Bebe

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Massive corporation in breaking laws for economic gain shocker.

Regulations designed to protect environmental stability prove ineffective shocker.


I'm sure VW are the only company who've done this. Certainly a case of one bad apple, it would be incredible to think that other, similar entities have engaged in the same behaviour, for the same purpose.
 

VorZakone

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No way a genuinely negligent issue like emissions could have passed countless gates of checks and controls. This was deliberate, and it came from the top. Glad to see their stock price take a huge hit, removes the incentive for fudging industry standards and government regulations.



Huh? Despite this, statistics is very valuable. It's very hard to falsify stats and get away with it, when they need to be reproduced or checked they fall apart.
So that's why Greece still managed to get into the EU with their false stats?
 

LitterBug

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So do any of you care about emissions when purchasing a car? Like does anyone really look at it and say, nah too high emissions, I'm going with a Reva instead?

On a personal level buyers of those cars benefited from this too by paying less for cars.

On the grand scheme of things how much larger would the impact on the environment really be?
 

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So do any of you care about emissions when purchasing a car? Like does anyone really look at it and say, nah too high emissions, I'm going with a Reva instead?

On a personal level buyers of those cars benefited from this too by paying less for cars.

On the grand scheme of things how much larger would the impact on the environment really be?
I suppose that depends how many other manufacturers were in on it. I think they said on the news last night that diesel cars are still a small market in the US compared to Europe. Road transport is 17.5% of all emissions in Europe - diesels are 50% of the market in Europe - so here that would be significant.
 

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sure they aren't the only ones but who looks at that emissions stuff when buying a car?
 

berbatrick

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On the grand scheme of things how much larger would the impact on the environment really be?

This is one of those questions where an individual imapct in close to zero but the cumulative effect of enough people thinking in one of these directions means either accelerated destruction or a small hope of saving the environment.
 

LitterBug

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I suppose that depends how many other manufacturers were in on it. I think they said on the news last night that diesel cars are still a small market in the US compared to Europe. Road transport is 17.5% of all emissions in Europe - diesels are 50% of the market in Europe - so here that would be significant.
I don't even understand why people buy diesels to be honest. They cost more to buy, to service, to fill up, are noisier and pollute like a nuclear waste facility (even though their CO2 is lower than petrol, beats me why other pollutants are not taken into consideration, for taxing purposes) but they're much more efficient to run on paper so that makes up for it for some even though the gap is much smaller in real life conditions.

They also apparently retain their value better in the (very) long run and despite this not making any difference to the person who initially buys the car taking into consideration they will most likely change their car after 3-5 years, they still buy one!

I'd understand a diesel engine on trucks, vans, transport vehicles etc, but people buying it for personal use, jeez!
 

ArmchairCritic

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There are regulations set out to drive down emissions, if they aren't met they carry financial penalties, if Volkswagen Auto Group are wilfully circumventing regulations it's completely out of order regardless of whether it really affects the average consumer. The EPA and EU might as well not bother trying to save the environment if car manufacturers are going to do stuff like this.

It's a bit strange that they've done this trick on relatively small and efficient cars like the Golf or A3, I would've thought their emissions wouldn't have been that high anyway.
 
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unchanged_lineup

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I don't even understand why people buy diesels to be honest. They cost more to buy, to service, to fill up, are noisier and pollute like a nuclear waste facility (even though their CO2 is lower than petrol, beats me why other pollutants are not taken into consideration, for taxing purposes) but they're much more efficient to run on paper so that makes up for it for some even though the gap is much smaller in real life conditions.

They also apparently retain their value better in the (very) long run and despite this not making any difference to the person who initially buys the car taking into consideration they will most likely change their car after 3-5 years, they still buy one!

I'd understand a diesel engine on trucks, vans, transport vehicles etc, but people buying it for personal use, jeez!
In Ireland, diesel is much cheaper than petrol - that's the main reason.
 

Rado_N

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So do any of you care about emissions when purchasing a car? Like does anyone really look at it and say, nah too high emissions, I'm going with a Reva instead?

On a personal level buyers of those cars benefited from this too by paying less for cars.

On the grand scheme of things how much larger would the impact on the environment really be?
Company car drivers and fleet managers 100% do, the tax benefits to both employee and employer are pretty sizeable.

I don't even understand why people buy diesels to be honest. They cost more to buy, to service, to fill up, are noisier and pollute like a nuclear waste facility (even though their CO2 is lower than petrol, beats me why other pollutants are not taken into consideration, for taxing purposes) but they're much more efficient to run on paper so that makes up for it for some even though the gap is much smaller in real life conditions.

They also apparently retain their value better in the (very) long run and despite this not making any difference to the person who initially buys the car taking into consideration they will most likely change their car after 3-5 years, they still buy one!

I'd understand a diesel engine on trucks, vans, transport vehicles etc, but people buying it for personal use, jeez!
It's mpg, simple as that. Diesel is also cheaper than unleaded at the pump at the moment, bizarrely.

People doing a lot of miles are right to opt for a diesel, people doing short journeys who think they'll get better mpg are totally wrong though, and their engines will end up fecked of they don't get properly warmed up.
 

LitterBug

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Company car drivers and fleet managers 100% do, the tax benefits to both employee and employer are pretty sizeable.



It's mpg, simple as that. Diesel is also cheaper than unleaded at the pump at the moment, bizarrely.

People doing a lot of miles are right to opt for a diesel, people doing short journeys who think they'll get better mpg are totally wrong though, and their engines will end up fecked of they don't get properly warmed up.
Yea I filled up on Saturday and they were the same price which I found strange.

It's undeniable that you get better mpg on a diesel engine but despite the difference on paper being sky high in a real life test done funnily enough on an Audi A3 as an example the difference in mpg between a petrol and diesel model was 20 mpg on paper but in real life this was only 11 mpg which is nearly half of what is quoted! So even if that is £200-300 a year based on typical use of 10k miles a year (albeit most people don't do this and average is close to 8k) you still need 5-10 years to claw back what you shelled extra to pay for it which as I said doesn't make it viable for people who've made the initial purchase so I find it as bizarre as the diesel price drop!
 

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For those asking about whether anyone cares about emissions, well it's a bit more complicated than that.

Diesels are not really a hit in the US - they need to comply with far, far stricter emissions regulations in the US than in Europe, so most don't bother because their engines can't hit the targets.

VW effectively opened up a market under the false pretence that their engines complied with these targets. It's blatant fraud actually.

The share price is down another 10% today already and with a potentially massive fine to come, you have to wonder how low can it go?

Possibly a great buying opportunity in a few months, because this company must surely be too big, too efficient to not recover. Share price was at 250 eur not too long ago (120 today).
 

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I've got a new job that doesn't come with a company car, Its a 15k commute every year.
I was tempted to buy diesel, but only really wanted to spend 5k on the car really.
Ended up a 5 year old 1.6 petrol with less than average miles for £4200. I wont get anywhere near spending the extra in petrol over diesel, purchase price and depreciation over the 3 years I intend to keep it.

Only thing I will lose out in is having to fill up a little bit more often because of the reduced tank range over the equivalent diesel.
The trip computer says 450 miles when full on this car, the absolute best I can wangle out of the 1.5 Dci in my work Megane is 560.
 

Dans

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And another 5% down since my last post! Now trading at 113.70. Mad.
 

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Typical Germany

It's stupid because it was sure that someone, someday, would have found their bluff

I'm sure that Volkswagen are not the only one

This story can bring them to the bankruptcy

Never been a fan of the brand, but in the last yrs they made great cars.
 
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Rado_N

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Google Finance, I put it on a few minutes ago and it dropped from 111.4 down to 105.75
 

hp88

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Sounds like they're remapping the engine during the test which pretty common for a owners do this themselves.

So do any of you care about emissions when purchasing a car? Like does anyone really look at it and say, nah too high emissions, I'm going with a Reva instead?
Just over £400 VED on cars that produce more than 255g/km of C02, that takes a few things off shortlist.
 

Rado_N

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And if you were to actually buy? I went to the first few broker sites on google and they were all much higher than that.

EDIT: The 5Y low is 96. Let's see if it hits that and then you're really talking.
Yea I don't bother going to broker sites, just use Google or Yahoo Finance live pages.

103.40 at the moment.
 

Dans

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Back up to 111.85 - have we already missed the boat? I am tempted.

Edit - I am looking at the price on the Frankfurt exchange btw (so Euros).
 

Dans

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Wow - it's being suggested that this could affect as many as 11 MILLION cars.

Kinell. I think I'll wait a littlelonger before buying.
 

LitterBug

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I've got a new job that doesn't come with a company car, Its a 15k commute every year.
I was tempted to buy diesel, but only really wanted to spend 5k on the car really.
Ended up a 5 year old 1.6 petrol with less than average miles for £4200. I wont get anywhere near spending the extra in petrol over diesel, purchase price and depreciation over the 3 years I intend to keep it.

Only thing I will lose out in is having to fill up a little bit more often because of the reduced tank range over the equivalent diesel.
The trip computer says 450 miles when full on this car, the absolute best I can wangle out of the 1.5 Dci in my work Megane is 560.
I am waiting till they get hit with the actual fine then I'm thinking of buying £10k's worth.
 

ArmchairCritic

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Wow - it's being suggested that this could affect as many as 11 MILLION cars.

Kinell. I think I'll wait a littlelonger before buying.
Wow, surely this trick would only be for the American markets though as you said the regulations are different to Europe.
 

Rado_N

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Call me cynical but I doubt they're the only ones doing shit like this.

The EPA and DoJ investigations will be interesting.
 

Dans

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Not necessarily as lower emissions mean lower taxes is many countries and therefore a more attractive purchase given what you get for your low emitting car.
 

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This will be a big dent on an already poorly accepted fuel source here. Hated US VWs before this. Biggest POS cars I've had the displeasure of owning and repairing. Couldn't get ours out of the VW parking lot after a repair without the service light coming on. 3 different neighbors had worse ones than us.
 

ArmchairCritic

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Call me cynical but I doubt they're the only ones doing shit like this.

The EPA and DoJ investigations will be interesting.
I guess it all depends how many Diesels you sell in the US, I doubt a manufacturer would risk this if they sold considerably less volumes than VW.
 

ArmchairCritic

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Not necessarily as lower emissions mean lower taxes is many countries and therefore a more attractive purchase given what you get for your low emitting car.
But to do that on a worldwide scale and risk getting caught...it could put them out of business on that scale potentially (although I don't think that would allowed to happen and there's a lot to happen), I mean 11 million cars?!