Volkswagen Admits to Cheating US Emissions Tests

Dans

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Sir Matt

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VW probably aren't the only ones, but they are just about the only company that sells diesel cars in the US. Most manufacturers don't even bother selling diesel cars because of strict emissions tests. Trucks are a different story so it may be that they've been cheating on those.
 

Dans

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But to do that on a worldwide scale and risk getting caught...it could put them out of business on that scale potentially (although I don't think that would allowed to happen and there's a lot to happen), I mean 11 million cars?!
Quite! Mind boggling isn't it? The CEO will have to go.
 

Dans

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There is one thing though - they have admitted it. When I think back to the banking crisis, did many banks openly admit to wrong doing in this way - which clearly was the case - or did they try and shift blame and avoid taking full responsibility?
 

Dans

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He earned €15.9m in 2014.

Think he should give much of that back?
 

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Christ, the numbers are mindblowing. That £18bn is only for the US fines remember and the US regulators go in fecking hard- we've seen that with the banks.
It's going to end up being one of the biggest corporate writedowns in history.

VW says 6.5bn euro provision could rise as it faces punishing fines
The German car maker signalled it might have to put aside more money to cover the costs of the emissions disaster, saying “ongoing investigations” meant the “amounts estimated may be subject to revaluation” and that its earnings targets would be “adjusted accordingly”.

Last year the company had global sales of €202bn and made a pre-tax profit of €14.8bn on the 10 million vehicles it sold, making it the world’s largest car company.

If America’s Environmental Protection Agency pushes for the maximum penalty for Violating the Clean Air Act, VW could face a fine of $37,500 for each vehicle affected, potentially opening it up to an $18bn hit.

It will also be liable for the cost of recalling cars and modifying them
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...W-issues-profit-warning-sets-aside-6.5bn.html
 

Dans

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I read that Australia are now looking into VW too.
 

Jippy

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I read that Australia are now looking into VW too.
You tempted? SaxoBank's reaction. Bolded the what they are doing bit- he's basically saying extent of the fines are obviously unquantifiable and it will probably recover within a couple of weeks. Short buying window.

What's next for scandal-ridden Volkswagen?

By Peter Garnry, Head of Equity Strategy, Saxo Bank
22 September 2015


· Volkswagen shares lose 22% on US diesel imbroglio

· Global scale of VW's legal liability not yet known

· Scandal-driven stock collapses usually mean-revert higher



It has been a volatile year for Volkswagen. The German carmaker started the year like a rocket fueled by the European Central Bank's new quantitative easing programme to lower the EUR exchange rate and assure continued credit growth.

Following the peak in March, continuous bad news from China and slowing economies set in motion a massive decline in the share price ending with a big splash yesterday with shares down as much as 22% following the revelation that Volkswagen's US business had cheated US regulators on how much emission its diesel vehicles produce.

Including today's declines, around $19 billion in market value has been erased and it certainly begs the question of what is likely to happen.

Massive uncertainty

Normally when a scandal hits, the stock price recovers quickly as traders overreact to news. A good example is Standard Chartered on August 7, 2012 when the share price fell as much as 26% intraday on news that the bank had helped the Iranian government to cover up $250 billlion in illegal transactions.

A few weeks later, the bank settled with US regulators and was fined $340 million. As the chart below shows, the share price jumped back to new highs by year-end.

So why are buyers not coming to the table in droves when it comes to Volkswagen? The uncertainty is simply much greater and there is no precedent in this case. With Standard Chartered, analysts had a reasonable idea within a few weeks how big the fine could be.

If an automaker violates the Clean Air Act it costs $37,500 per vehicle. Given the number of sold diesel cars, this brings the potential fine to $20 billion. However news out this morning states that other governments such as Australia will now look into the matter and see if their emission standards have been violated by Volkswagen.

In plain language, this may not be an isolated case so the tail risk is just much bigger.

In the worst-case scenario, Volkswagen will be banned from selling diesel vehicles in the US for a certain period such as BNP Paribas was banned from conducting certain USD transactions for a year, on top of a $9 billion fine due to the French bank's involvement in helping Sudan, Cuba and Iran perform said transactions.

The point here is that US regulators are not shy to send a strong signal to companies when they violate the rules. It is in this light that the large declines should be viewed.

What should traders do?

It seems unlikely that US regulators would fine Volkswagen to the tune of $20 billion. The German automaker gets 13.6% of its revenue from North America which means probably around 10-12% from the US. Assuming a pro rata share on profits, Volkswagen makes around €1.1-1.3 billion in profits from its US business.

It would be unheard of to fine a company so disproportionately to its annual profits. As such, it looks like an overreaction in the share price.

What normally happens in these events (short-term) is that mean-reversion strategies kick in and begin buying shares. However, if the selling pressure is too big from long-term investors and short sellers then stops are hit and mean reversion strategies withdraw again quickly.

It is simply not worth it in the short term to supply liquidity.

In little more than a week we are rolling into October and then thousands of longer term quant-driven equity funds will be crunching the numbers. A company like Volkswagen will likely shift into being a very attractive value stock given that no databases will have updated earnings forecasts for FY'16.

As these quant-driven equity funds often have hundreds of positions they do not care about the firm-specific risk tied to this event. As a result, their computer programs will kick in and begin buying Volkswagen shares.

For the next couple of days the share price will wobble as the flow of sellers and buyers arrive at the table. Short-term, it looks like the mean reversion strategies are pulling away and thus only market-makers stand as last defense but they are only providing brief liquidity before flipping the shares. It could take a week for the stock price to settle as the longer term quant-driven equity funds get into action.

But opportunities on the upside will occur, but it requires good timing. We stay on the sideline for now as we already have German carmaker exposure through BMW.

 

Dans

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Interesting - thanks for posting. I think I would definitely wait a few days to see which other countries decide to look into VW - those with their own car industries to support and protect - so South Korea, France (that would be politically dicey), Japan.........

EDIT - that bit about DBs not being updated with earnings forecasts suggests to me though that they will not be buying at the right time surely? i.e. a value stock based on very imperfect information.
 

JPRouve

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If I'm not mistaken one or several German carmaker use or used Peugeot Diesel engines, so maybe they are also involved?
 

Dans

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A German car maker using French motors? Really? I cannot believe that.
 

JPRouve

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A German car maker using French motors? Really? I cannot believe that.
Only Diesel, I don't know if it's the entire engine though and I don't know much about cars so I might be wrong.

edit: It's BMW.
 

adexkola

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So that's why Greece still managed to get into the EU with their false stats?
'

This has nothing to do with the overall usefulness of statistics and data.

This will be a big dent on an already poorly accepted fuel source here. Hated US VWs before this. Biggest POS cars I've had the displeasure of owning and repairing. Couldn't get ours out of the VW parking lot after a repair without the service light coming on. 3 different neighbors had worse ones than us.
I liked my VW. I rode it into the ground, so whatever repairs I had to do on it, I probably had them coming. Had one recall for an engine intake manifold issue.

He earned €15.9m in 2014.

Think he should give much of that back?
Morally that would be cute, but if you were in his position I would hope you'd just resign and fade away with your millions.

Plus it's unlikely all of that was cash, some was probably deferred stock.
 

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This has nothing to do with the overall usefulness of statistics and data.



I liked my VW. I rode it into the ground, so whatever repairs I had to do on it, I probably had them coming. Had one recall for an engine intake manifold issue.



Morally that would be cute, but if you were in his position I would hope you'd just resign and fade away with your millions.

Plus it's unlikely all of that was cash, some was probably deferred stock.
Ours was plagued with computer issues. Seemed every month a different board would break and we'd be out $1K. They of course had no idea why. Sometimes the replaced board would fry over and over. Bulbs would blow every week and some were near impossible to replace without taking major parts out of the car so would cost $50-$100. Clearly faulty electrics that have always plagued VW. Apparently far worse in ones assembled in Mexico than the US. Our poor neighbors had far worse problems though. Two had more computer board issues than us (how that is even possible I don't know) and the third had failed brakes and a sticky accelerator.... on a relatively new car. I had a buddy who loved his VW and I told him abotu all these problems. He didn't believe it until he was 3 years in and then one day he called me from the side of the road. A mechanic friend prewarned me about VW (his best customers) and I ignored him. Bad move on my part.

Another issue I had with the VW company culture was on their recalls. There was a recall due to sludge in engines which required the use of synthetic oil. We had to provide evidence of every single oil change proving we used synthetic. We said check your fancy computer there since we've done them all here.... sorry sir, we don't keep records. Right, my arse you don't.
 

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Interesting - thanks for posting. I think I would definitely wait a few days to see which other countries decide to look into VW - those with their own car industries to support and protect - so South Korea, France (that would be politically dicey), Japan.........

EDIT - that bit about DBs not being updated with earnings forecasts suggests to me though that they will not be buying at the right time surely? i.e. a value stock based on very imperfect information.
I guess in Europe it will be an EU fine rather than country by country, but Bloomberg and Reuters reporting on new countries launching probes every five minutes, eg S. Korea, Singapore, Malaysia etc...Those fines are going to mount up.

On the quants models. I get Saxo's points about they don't care so much about individual stock risk so much given they trade hundreds of positions, but you'd think a profit warning would automatically trigger a review and update.
 

FCBarca

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Makes me wonder why people value statistics so much, feck knows how many times they've been manipulated.
Absolutely.

Moreover, the implications could be much greater should they investigate not just other automakers for emissions data but safety issues across the industry
 

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Ours was plagued with computer issues. Seemed every month a different board would break and we'd be out $1K. They of course had no idea why. Sometimes the replaced board would fry over and over. Bulbs would blow every week and some were near impossible to replace without taking major parts out of the car so would cost $50-$100. Clearly faulty electrics that have always plagued VW. Apparently far worse in ones assembled in Mexico than the US. Our poor neighbors had far worse problems though. Two had more computer board issues than us (how that is even possible I don't know) and the third had failed brakes and a sticky accelerator.... on a relatively new car. I had a buddy who loved his VW and I told him abotu all these problems. He didn't believe it until he was 3 years in and then one day he called me from the side of the road. A mechanic friend prewarned me about VW (his best customers) and I ignored him. Bad move on my part.

Another issue I had with the VW company culture was on their recalls. There was a recall due to sludge in engines which required the use of synthetic oil. We had to provide evidence of every single oil change proving we used synthetic. We said check your fancy computer there since we've done them all here.... sorry sir, we don't keep records. Right, my arse you don't.
:lol: Jesus

After my dealer warranty was up I only went to the dealer for diagnostics, then turned around and went to a local car mechanic or a Meineke. Their maintenance prices were obscene.
 

senorgregster

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:lol: Jesus

After my dealer warranty was up I only went to the dealer for diagnostics, then turned around and went to a local car mechanic or a Meineke. Their maintenance prices were obscene.
an expensive lesson for sure. I feel bad for the VW workers on this current issue though. They'll be the biggest losers.
 

VorZakone

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This has nothing to do with the overall usefulness of statistics and data.
I seriously disagree. There is so much more manipulation going on that we do not know about. People who wrote papers with the data of Greece or even a company like Enron used data which are pretty much useless now. So this has everything to do with the usefulness of statistics IMO. Only stats of which we are a 100% sure that they are correct are useful.
 

Jippy

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I seriously disagree. There is so much more manipulation going on that we do not know about. People who wrote papers with the data of Greece or even a company like Enron used data which are pretty much useless now. So this has everything to do with the usefulness of statistics IMO. Only stats of which we are a 100% sure that they are correct are useful.
I think you're confusing data and statistics tbh.
 

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For those asking about whether anyone cares about emissions, well it's a bit more complicated than that.

Diesels are not really a hit in the US - they need to comply with far, far stricter emissions regulations in the US than in Europe, so most don't bother because their engines can't hit the targets.

VW effectively opened up a market under the false pretence that their engines complied with these targets. It's blatant fraud actually.

The share price is down another 10% today already and with a potentially massive fine to come, you have to wonder how low can it go?

Possibly a great buying opportunity in a few months, because this company must surely be too big, too efficient to not recover. Share price was at 250 eur not too long ago (120 today).
Good post. Very informative.
 

Jippy

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I see what you mean. I'm talking about statistics as in data, not statistics as in the science of statistics.
I'd view statistics as a means of anylsing compilations of data, personally. But yeah, we all know statistics can be twisted any which way you want, but you'd hope hard data, ie from emissions tests, would be accurate.

Potential Enron? Or would that go too far?
Don't think so. Maybe a rights issue at worst. Saxo said it could get a temp ban from selling in the US and it is going to make a massive loss, but the Telegraph put the numbers into context.

The US Justice Department is reportedly launching a criminal investigation into the scandal, which could lead to hefty fines. If America’s Environmental Protection Agency pushes for the maximum penalty for Violating the Clean Air Act, VW could face a fine of $37,500 for each vehicle affected,potentially opening it up to an $18bn hit.

VW has put aside €6.5bn to pay for the fault - which is likely to include a massive recall - but this could rise as “ongoing investigations” means the “amounts estimated may be subject to revaluation” and its earnings targets would be “adjusted accordingly”, VW has said.

To put the scale of the cost into context: Last year VW had global sales of €202bn and made a pre-tax profit of €14.8bn on the 10 million vehicles it sold, making it the world’s largest car company
 

Dans

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VW - 2014 figures:

CASH - just under 40 bn
ASSETS - just under 350 bn
DEBT - just over 125 bn
 

Brophs

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Maybe this is why my car always smells of farts?
 

Dans

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Hey maybe they could sell these devices to people like your good self? Recoup some of the losses.
 

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This doesn't bother me much tbh. I'd be more concerned if it was faulty airbags or brakes.
 

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VW - 2014 figures:

CASH - just under 40 bn
ASSETS - just under 350 bn
DEBT - just over 125 bn
I haven't got time to look now, but the massive Toyota car recall a few years ago must give a clue of how much it will cost VW, albeit you'd expect Toyota to have faced more punitive sanctions, given actual deaths occurred from the steering faults.
 

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I haven't got time to look now, but the massive Toyota car recall a few years ago must give a clue of how much it will cost VW, albeit you'd expect Toyota to have faced more punitive sanctions, given actual deaths occurred from the steering faults.
Both will face class action suits. Car makers are quite adept at avoiding real penalties for deaths due to negligence. I suspect VW will take a bigger hit due to the nature of their deception.
 

Dans

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Winterkorn will be replaced by Müller, CEO of Porsche apparently.
 

Jippy

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Both will face class action suits. Car makers are quite adept at avoiding real penalties for deaths due to negligence. I suspect VW will take a bigger hit due to the nature of their deception.
It shouldn't do- When GM had its ignition issue, which affected 28 million cars and actually caused 174 deaths, it was fined $900m, which was equivalent to $33.50 per car. People are talking about a $37,500 per car fine ($18bn) for around 550,000 cars for VW. GM obfuscated and didn't co-operate, while VW is.

We know the US has a propensity to fine foreign companies that transgress more heavily, but the full penalty would be saying this is more than 100x worse than GM's killer cars! Think of it that way and it is bonkers.

Just this second been speaking to a guy who has a couple of million in VW and he is sticking with it.