Lingard and McT for two.
Waiting to the 87th Minute Before Subs
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
Of course its bollocks. We did NOTHING after 60 minutes... Zero, oh apart from concede a stupid fecking goal. It genuinely would be impossible for our bench players to have contributed less... And the fact that they had fresh legs and could actually run probably means on the most basic level they'd have contributed more.
Great post!
Thats always the first line of defense: our squad is sooo bad. Yeah, if you compare us to City, maybe even Liverpool, but really not in comparison to the likes of Sevilla, Kopenhagen or Norwich or all the other low-end clubs in the league and europe we struggle against.
If you need a squad composed of only top players to win against those, you simply aren't a very good manager, end of story.
For reference, this was Klopps starting 11 in the 2016 EL semi Liverpool won comfortably:
Mignolet
Clyne
Toure
Lovren
Milner
Coutinho
Firmino
Sturridge
Moreno
Lallana
Can
With world beaters from the bench like Benteke, Lucas Leiva and Joe Allen
The squad isn't good enough. He made a judgment call that those on the pitch, although tiring, were still miles better than what's on the bench. I agree with Ole on that.
James is a championship player.
Ighalo was playing in china for a reason.
Mata was past it when we signed him 6 years ago and not clear who people think he should have replaced.
People have been saying for since the restart that we're fecked because beyond the starting 11 when just have turds. That remains the case until Woody splashes some cash.
This place has become so reactionary after every result. Just take the defeat and stop crying about it, we're rebuilding and it takes time.
James is a championship player.
Ighalo was playing in china for a reason.
Mata was past it when we signed him 6 years ago and not clear who people think he should have replaced.
People have been saying for since the restart that we're fecked because beyond the starting 11 when just have turds. That remains the case until Woody splashes some cash.
This place has become so reactionary after every result. Just take the defeat and stop crying about it, we're rebuilding and it takes time.
Maybe bringing them on would have made a difference, maybe they'd be out of their depth. Who knows. They're both so far from this level of quality that like I say, I would feel more confident in a tiring Rashford or Greenwood producing a moment of magic than either of them.
If we had been outplayed throughout the second half and Ole was sat on his hands not changing anything then I would agree, but we were by far the better team and were done in by a goal against the run of play. But for a couple of mistakes at either end should have won comfortably with the players already on the pitch.
Matic and Mata were on the bench. Both have proven capable of changing the game, or at least competing against this 4th team on La Liga.
So, one was nose-picking on the bench, the other was brought in at 87th minute. Hah..
So, one was nose-picking on the bench, the other was brought in at 87th minute. Hah..
Not all subs have to be Messi level. Sometimes you just need some fresh legs. I think waiting until 87th min to make subs considering that our performance levels dropped significantly after 65th min or so is basically giving up.
Oh my god. Literally everyone is a cnut on this forum now. This thread is an embarrassment about how far this forum has fallen since I started reading it. We didn't make subs because our squad isn't good enough you fecking pricks. Any other day, we win by several goals.
It was literally the previous game though, less than a week ago.
We had a burst of around 20 mins after half time but then as the game went on, tiredness crept in and Sevilla were making changes and we weren’t.
I didn't think greenwood, rashford or martial looked tired today... but thought Rashfords confidence was so low that I would have rolled out lingard or james. james to really push the counter attacking angle, or lingard for the tight spaces that came up because seville defended in incredible numbers, either would have made sense to me
other than that, maybe throw ighalo on 5 mins earlier....
other than that, maybe throw ighalo on 5 mins earlier....
It should be obvious why we don’t make subs. The players on our bench are FAR inferior to the players who start (even Rashford)
I’d rather have a tired Martial, Bruno or Greenwood than a fresh Mata, James or Lingard
I’d rather have a tired Martial, Bruno or Greenwood than a fresh Mata, James or Lingard
Regardless of the quality, he needed fresh legs on the pitch so it takes the workload of the likes of Martial, Bruno and Pogba. Matic and TFM would have helped with that.
I'm surprised some people don't see that.
I'm surprised some people don't see that.
We are not going to sign 11 squad players, we will sign 3 or 4 so the majority of those players will remain. Will they be ignored next season as well?
Mata pretty much was the reason we won against Copenhagen.
And what about Ighalo ffs ? Why did we bring him on loan then ?
Rashford was having a stinker. Mata and Ighalo wouldn't have done any worse. At least do your job.
While the main reason we lost is because we fecked up ton of easy chances, the management of subs was ridiculous and the more ridiculous thing is, it's not the first time under Ole.
I said it in the match thread about 30 seconds before they scored that we need to make a change but i couldn't pick a sub out that i wanted to bring on.
The only one going through my head was ighalo for rashy and shifting martial to the wing and maybe mctominay but our best midfielder was fred and i wasnt taking pogba of in a semi for him.
What changes would you have made, genuine question?
Based on what? The countless amazing things they were doing in the last 30 minutes? At one point Mason was so tired he couldn't kick the ball.
Wanted the interviewer to ask him about this but he didn’t.
Looked like he was trying to make a point, probably not the right time to do it. Didn't Mourinho do something like this during his time here?
Oops, just made a thread about trying to understand it 
Spot on. The squad is being horribly utilized. And today was not a one off.
It’s the strength in depth that’s the problem. Why would you want to bring on those players for any of the starters?
There’s no potential game changers whatsoever, whereas all the starters are, even when they’re not having the the best game.
There’s no potential game changers whatsoever, whereas all the starters are, even when they’re not having the the best game.
See post 2 above this.
I would get the argument if our players on the pitch were still contributing, but as the weren't it would be pretty much impossible for our bench players to have done worse.
Mate, we give our fresh legged players abuse every day on this forum. Now we want them to come on and save the game
Our last game was literally changed by someone coming off the bench.
Our last goal from open play was scored because a sub was fresh enough to run quickly and close down.
I am not saying we would have won the game, maybe we would have lost by bigger score who knows. I just don't like seeing our manager doing absolutely nothing to change the game, that's all.Mate, we give our fresh legged players abuse every day on this forum. Now we want them to come on and save the game
Ah yes, Lingard who has a grand total of one goal all season and McT who has been pretty poor recently. I've said I would have liked Ighalo on earlier with the shape being changed but I have no faith in any other attacking subs - I like Matic and McT.
You’re saying that this is evidence of OGS being a bad manager but then contradict yourself by saying we need a cf and a RW (Sancho). If we had decent players on the bench that could impact the game then he would have used them. Unfortunately the club have put the manager in a position, by giving contract extensions to below standard players, where he has to try and persist with this first XI because the drop off in quality is huge.
Then why extend his loan until January if he doesn’t even trust him?? And it’s not like January is going to be an easy period to find another striker!
Which was our last goal from open play BECAUSE he had fresh legs and could force a mistake though simply running and closing down.
And an attacking sub that wasn't Igahlo changed our last game.
It would be different if the players on the pitch were still doing things, or even LOOKED like they were going to do something. But Bruno and Martial apart, no one did... So how would it be possible for our bench players to contribute less?
Agree... Only Ighalo should have been considered he is a bit of a unit..
Up until their goal the match was going largely according to plan- them having plenty of the ball but us looking far more dangerous and creating chances.
We had 20 minutes with them on the ropes where we should have scored at least one but even outside that spell we created the clearest chances and looked like the most likely team to score.
You can say that their subs changed the game, but to me it was a lack of concentration that led to them scoring totally against the run of play with 11 minutes to go.
In any case, the point that Ole isn't proactive enough is moot until he has a bench to allow changes without a massive drop off in quality.
Because none of them are that good? James hasn't been good in about 8 months and looks bereft of confidence. Lingard, the scapegoat of the forum is now a player we should be bringing on? The player who the forum seems to despise? Mata changing the game against Copenhagen is all fine and well but against a team like Sevilla, I doubt he would do much.
Lingard capitalising on a mistake against Leicester when we were 1-0 up is hardly something to hold on to. He does feck all whenever else he has been subbed on. 99% of the time he does nothing as a sub. Lingard, James, McT have all scored 1 goal each this season coming on as subs. Which is the same as Greenwood combined.
Should have brought on Ighalo for Rashford to create a focal point, Rashford was having one of his all too often unintelligent performances, he was like an extra defender for them, tripping over himself and running into people, we do not have the football intelligence or experience up front to play a fluid front 3, why did we keep on Ighalo if he is not going to be used.
There’s nothing to this. We all know we’re shite beyond the first XI so let’s back the manager this summer
Agree on this. Everyone, including Ole as he won't touch the feckers with a bargepole, knows the squad players are nowhere near good enough. But surely in a game where tiredness and frustration had crept in there was time to freshen it up earlier than the 86th minute?
That's the only point I'd make from tonight's game against Ole, as I understand he's between the devil and the deep blue sea with this squad beneath the first XI. Also his first choice attackers should have finished better and his first choice defenders should have defended better. Ole can't change any of that from the sidelines.
Not think martial moved to left and ighalo up top would of brought a different attack considering that after a short spell in the second half nothing really happened ?
That’s mostly the case with every club
But you have to try something
Remember macheda coming on and scoring the winner? No way was he ever better than even half the bench but it was something different
Yeah we needed a change before that but right after the goal would have given the team some much needed urgency i feel.