Wan-Bissaka for sale

Pronewbie

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You tanked his value. He was a project of a potentially great player when you signed him and in 3 years he didn't improve one bit. For the past half season was getting benched by Dalot. He's turning 25 early next season now, and on wages that for every club outside those 14-15 megarich/megaspenders are huge wages. And you want him out. Nobody's gonna sign him outright. Best you can do, send him on loan and hope he does well and rebuilds his value. Then sell next year
To be fair we've mismanaged every single player's career at the club. But as you've alluded to - onwards and upwards.
 

Bertie Wooster

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We've certainly mismanaged players, failed to get the best out of most of them, etc.

But I think Wan-Bissaka is also in that group of players who looks good at 'smaller' teams, when people focus more on his positives; but isn't quite good enough for the 'top' clubs, where his weaknesses are more exposed and highlighted.

He's got good physical attributes and can get up and down well - especially when he has space to run into, as he does more at the likes of Palace. And that's enough to receive praise in the media and certain level clubs. But his technical attributes are limited, and his attacking end product virtually non existent. Which, at a club like United, and compared to what the FB"s at rival clubs produce, is poor and gets criticised more than if he was at the likes of Palace.

Defensively, he's good one on ones. And again, at the likes of Palace, that's what was focused on more. At a club like United, the frequency he gets caught out of position dealing with balls from the other side gets more attention as every goal the top teams concede is a bigger thing, and more scrutinised, than the likes of Palace conceding them. So defenders weak areas there can go under the radar a bit more.

It's similar with Maguire at Leicester. We were looking to buy English, and the positive attributes of those two were being regularly highlighted. But the limitations in their games meant they were never £50m / £80m rated players. And, with those price tags, and playing at a huge clubs, comes more scrutiny on the negatives of their game and less on the positives which are good enough for a certain level - just not necessarily Man United, £50m / £80m level.

Unfortunately, with his increase in wages, there's no way a more suitable level club could afford to buy him permanently at the moment. So a loan to that mid-level PL, with us paying much of his wages, is more likely if he does leave.
 

tomaldinho1

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If we sign Antony who’s used to having a full-back that constantly goes forward and gives him an option (and pulls a marker away), and then have AWB behind him who doesn’t make those runs frequently we’ll be here in a year saying Antony’s a flop because he can’t dribble his way out of the constant double marking job that the opponents put on him.

How do I know this? Because I’ve seen the Sancho thread.
Yes but why would you listen to anyone who is already calling Sancho a flop? Let’s see how all these ‘flops’ do under a new coach who is hands on. I’ve seen people call VdB a coward because he tried to play one twos (I.e. didn’t just whack it long), AWB Sunday League, Maguire not PL quality, Martial finished, Rashford finished, Ronaldo finished…you get the picture. Some will not succeed but I’d bet a good few will look like new players next season.
 

Stacks

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should never have been acquired after one "decent" season at Palace and they priced him the same as Walker. One season of top level experience. we got English taxed. Our transfer strategy under Ole was very suspect. It was clear early this dude was fugazi
 

acnumber9

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Even in AWB's better season of 2020/21, his numbers are underwhelming and he wasn't performing higher than Dalot was this season. Also, did Dalot just have a good season? I'd say definitely not. If his numbers are better than AWB's (either for the season just gone or the one previous) in a season in which the entire squad underperformed, surely that suggests there is more to work with with Dalot than AWB? Besides, Dalot must overlap a bit if he is getting solid to very good passing numbers in advanced positions.
Well I haven’t looked at the stats for previous seasons so can’t really comment on that. I just expect it was better because when watching matches I could see he was playing better.

I don’t believe it’s a good season for Dalot but it has been his best season. Very low bar mind you.

Progressive passes or passes in advanced positions would have nothing to do with his positioning when attacking. He comes into the centre.

I think Wan Bissaka has more to work with. All that will ultimately matter is if the manager does.
 

shamans

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You not going to reply to all the tags you got in the Amber Heard- Johnny Depp thread then?

Sorry not sorry for the off topic :wenger:
No interest. Outright misogynistic comments and bad faith arguments since the beginning. The case was a farce. Sad to see how celebrity status protects you from being abusive. Everyone on that thread seems to know how I feel so I don't want engage in mindless dirt slinging.

Also it's been a month and some folks are still going at it.
 

Anustart89

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Yes but why would you listen to anyone who is already calling Sancho a flop? Let’s see how all these ‘flops’ do under a new coach who is hands on. I’ve seen people call VdB a coward because he tried to play one twos (I.e. didn’t just whack it long), AWB Sunday League, Maguire not PL quality, Martial finished, Rashford finished, Ronaldo finished…you get the picture. Some will not succeed but I’d bet a good few will look like new players next season.
Well I can’t turn off half the forum, that would very much defeat the point of being here, so that’s why I have to read morons posting their opinions on Sancho.

I’m very much excited by EtH but a team that plays attacking swashbuckling football as has been touted has no place for someone who barely qualifies as a footballer in a key position in a modern, attacking team. The poster I responded to thought that we should really go with AWB if we signed Antony, but that would only leave people disappointed when it turns out that not even him can escape being double marked due to getting no help from his right back. And then they’ll complain that Antony doesn’t track back when the opponents inevitably win the ball by triggering their press every time AWB receives the ball and we’ll have gone full circle.
 

OpenIntrovert

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Well I can’t turn off half the forum, that would very much defeat the point of being here, so that’s why I have to read morons posting their opinions on Sancho.

I’m very much excited by EtH but a team that plays attacking swashbuckling football as has been touted has no place for someone who barely qualifies as a footballer in a key position in a modern, attacking team. The poster I responded to thought that we should really go with AWB if we signed Antony, but that would only leave people disappointed when it turns out that not even him can escape being double marked due to getting no help from his right back. And then they’ll complain that Antony doesn’t track back when the opponents inevitably win the ball by triggering their press every time AWB receives the ball and we’ll have gone full circle.
The problem with AWB is not that he does not want to help the winger, but that he tends to get the positions wrong when he is no longer on the ball. We shall leave it to ETH and his coaching staff to see if they can work on his off the ball movement, and if the response is good, he can certainly be the main right back. It also depends on how ETH is going to setup his team in terms of formations.
 

Stacks

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You tanked his value. He was a project of a potentially great player when you signed him and in 3 years he didn't improve one bit. For the past half season was getting benched by Dalot. He's turning 25 early next season now, and on wages that for every club outside those 14-15 megarich/megaspenders are huge wages. And you want him out. Nobody's gonna sign him outright. Best you can do, send him on loan and hope he does well and rebuilds his value. Then sell next year
I agree with this take. The most we’d get for him this summer is probably about 15m as we’d likely have to subsidise his wages. I’d keep him this season and see what Ten Hag can do for him coaching wise. There’s a lot of good raw material there but I just don’t know if it can be molded or not.

Only three viable options are to sell him for peanuts this summer, loan him and hope he increases his value for a sale next summer, or hang on to him this season and see how he does under ETH and then reassess next summer. If he has another bad year and barely plays, he’ll probably accept a pay cut to move, so he can play. But I still think there’s something there to be worked with. I don’t know if it’ll even be at RB. ETH has a history of retraining players. He may be a candidate.
He was never a potentially great player, that's the problem. Sometimes the club simply misevaluates a player, there isn't necessarily a hidden potential lurking beneath the surface that we have been unable to unlock. Sometimes you just sign a complete duff and at 50 mill that's what he is.

The fans have had to make excuses for him and claim that he can improve basic abilities for his entire period at the club, which reflects his quality. It is pretty difficult to build basic technique into a player. It wasn't about polishing a player that already had attacking prowess, he struggles to control the football, struggles to carry the ball, has an extremely limited passing range, and can't cross.
I agree with the 3rd guy. He had too many things to improve on many of which should be natural or already established as a first team £50 million player. it makes no sense. You are only likely to make minimal improvements on just a few attributes in your career. People act like he will improve 25 % towards max skill score in every attribute.
 

giorno

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I agree with the 3rd guy. He had too many things to improve on many of which should be natural or already established as a first team £50 million player. it makes no sense. You are only likely to make minimal improvements on just a few attributes in your career. People act like he will improve 25 % towards max skill score in every attribute.
I called him a *project* of a potentially great player. Not a potentially great player. That said, he's a fantastic 1vs1 defender and a really good dribbler. Improve his off ball defence and passing - both eminently coachable things if the coach is good at his job - and you've got yourself at the very least a shut down defender who contributes well in the build up with his dribbling and doesn't hurt you with his passing. AKA, Ferland Mendy. The guy who just won a double as a key player for Real Madrid. And i don't rate Mendy as a great player, but he's been excellent for us

Now if you could get his final ball to a decent level, you'd have a great player there

I do agree that spending that kind of money on him was pretty mad. Massive gamble that blew up in your face
 

Devil may care

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I think a mid-table team might well go for him but it's probably going to have to be a loan at first due to last season which is frustrating.
 

Stacks

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I called him a *project* of a potentially great player. Not a potentially great player. That said, he's a fantastic 1vs1 defender and a really good dribbler. Improve his off ball defence and passing - both eminently coachable things if the coach is good at his job - and you've got yourself at the very least a shut down defender who contributes well in the build up with his dribbling and doesn't hurt you with his passing. AKA, Ferland Mendy. The guy who just won a double as a key player for Real Madrid. And i don't rate Mendy as a great player, but he's been excellent for us

Now if you could get his final ball to a decent level, you'd have a great player there

I do agree that spending that kind of money on him was pretty mad. Massive gamble that blew up in your face
I feel passing and off ball defence and naturally gifted things. The technical aspects of the game are typically areas you have from young and off ball defence ties to instincts. I was always good at anticipating in defence but he makes Sunday League errors in positioning despite being at a pro club since young. Same with Shaw. its a lost cause. Even Trent hasn't improved much in this regard. I think we over value how much coaches can improve a player. things like off ball defence should improve with experience of various defensive situations but he stayed the same so he is a shit learner
 

Stookie

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send him out on loan somewhere where he can build up a bit of confidence and form. Like Lingard did at WH. Then see if said club he’s at will make an offer like WH did. Only United were stupid to turn that down.
 

Gordon Godot

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I called him a *project* of a potentially great player. Not a potentially great player. That said, he's a fantastic 1vs1 defender and a really good dribbler. Improve his off ball defence and passing - both eminently coachable things if the coach is good at his job - and you've got yourself at the very least a shut down defender who contributes well in the build up with his dribbling and doesn't hurt you with his passing. AKA, Ferland Mendy. The guy who just won a double as a key player for Real Madrid. And i don't rate Mendy as a great player, but he's been excellent for us

Now if you could get his final ball to a decent level, you'd have a great player there

I do agree that spending that kind of money on him was pretty mad. Massive gamble that blew up in your face
He was never even the prospect of a great player. His passing and delivery are woeful, he can only beat players when its happenign at full speed and even then he looks like Bambi about to lose it. When teams sit back, as they did with him, he is utterly useless.
 

tomaldinho1

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Well I can’t turn off half the forum, that would very much defeat the point of being here, so that’s why I have to read morons posting their opinions on Sancho.

I’m very much excited by EtH but a team that plays attacking swashbuckling football as has been touted has no place for someone who barely qualifies as a footballer in a key position in a modern, attacking team. The poster I responded to thought that we should really go with AWB if we signed Antony, but that would only leave people disappointed when it turns out that not even him can escape being double marked due to getting no help from his right back. And then they’ll complain that Antony doesn’t track back when the opponents inevitably win the ball by triggering their press every time AWB receives the ball and we’ll have gone full circle.
I don’t think we’re going to play swashbuckling football to temper expectations but we will be progressive and keep the ball a lot better. That should help our full backs in particular because our midfield right now is anti-possession and when they get the ball it’s hot potato.

That was me you replied to (I think) and my take is any full back, literally any full back in the league, can make overlapping runs if the coach wants them to. That’s just basic fitness. AWB doesn’t have a great delivery but then Dalot is as sporadic as they come so if we’re comparing the two I’d take AWB right now. Basically allow him to overlap if we sign Antony and just be ok with this season there not being loads of quality coming from his deliveries.

ideally we just sign a great RB and this is all moot but I’m working off the assumption it’s AWB or Dalot.
 

marcus agrippa

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I don’t think we’re going to play swashbuckling football to temper expectations but we will be progressive and keep the ball a lot better. That should help our full backs in particular because our midfield right now is anti-possession and when they get the ball it’s hot potato.

That was me you replied to (I think) and my take is any full back, literally any full back in the league, can make overlapping runs if the coach wants them to. That’s just basic fitness. AWB doesn’t have a great delivery but then Dalot is as sporadic as they come so if we’re comparing the two I’d take AWB right now. Basically allow him to overlap if we sign Antony and just be ok with this season there not being loads of quality coming from his deliveries.

ideally we just sign a great RB and this is all moot but I’m working off the assumption it’s AWB or Dalot.
On what basis? All the stories I've seen since ETH was appointed state AWB is surplus to requirements. Evidently ETH doesn't fancy him. If we don't sign a right back, or even if we promote one from the youth teams, this is Dalot's spot to lose.
 

tomaldinho1

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On what basis? All the stories I've seen since ETH was appointed state AWB is surplus to requirements. Evidently ETH doesn't fancy him. If we don't sign a right back, or even if we promote one from the youth teams, this is Dalot's spot to lose.
He might well want to sell him but I've not seen any credible links about clubs interested in him
 

marcus agrippa

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He might well want to sell him but I've not seen any credible links about clubs interested in him
My point is it makes little sense to talk about AWB as an option given the manager has evidently decided early on that he isn't up to it. ETH seems a very decisive coach, who has a clear idea what he wants.
 

tomaldinho1

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My point is it makes little sense to talk about AWB as an option given the manager has evidently decided early on that he isn't up to it. ETH seems a very decisive coach, who has a clear idea what he wants.
Understood. Shut down the thread
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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You tanked his value. He was a project of a potentially great player when you signed him and in 3 years he didn't improve one bit. For the past half season was getting benched by Dalot. He's turning 25 early next season now, and on wages that for every club outside those 14-15 megarich/megaspenders are huge wages. And you want him out. Nobody's gonna sign him outright. Best you can do, send him on loan and hope he does well and rebuilds his value. Then sell next year
We didn’t ‘tank his value’, we overpaid for him in the first place. At no point was he potentially ‘great’. He could have a great loan at an EPL club & we still won’t recoup the fee.
 

romufc

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He was never an excellent defender, he was an excellent tackler.

His positioning has always been tragic.
Thank you. People fail to understand this.

Even being an excellent tackler, its fine as RB when you outside the box but as a CB, inside the box is a very very dodgy trait to have.
 

marcus agrippa

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Surely it's ok to discuss the possibility AWB won't be sold in the WAN BISSAKA FOR SALE thread?
Hey ... I'm not the one who brought up locking threads. Just find it odd shoehorning a player into the side who by all accounts was first on the chopping block by the new manager. Better to discuss how United can best recoup the investment, but that's just my opinion.
 

tomaldinho1

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Hey ... I'm not the one who brought up locking threads. Just find it odd shoehorning a player into the side who by all accounts was first on the chopping block by the new manager. Better to discuss how United can best recoup the investment, but that's just my opinion.
marcus, get agrippa.

Sorry couldn't help it... I wonder how much he'll sell for though, his stock is low and he's on big wages - genuinely might be £15m or less with add-ons, clubs know we're desperate to sell him and football has transitioned towards a much less defensive game with full backs needing to be more than good defenders these days. I really think best case scenario (unless someone pays a decent fee for him and that, for me, would be £25m+ which is still a big loss) is we keep him here and he's either just a steady backup or he improves.
 

marcus agrippa

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marcus, get agrippa.

Sorry couldn't help it... I wonder how much he'll sell for though, his stock is low and he's on big wages - genuinely might be £15m or less with add-ons, clubs know we're desperate to sell him and football has transitioned towards a much less defensive game with full backs needing to be more than good defenders these days. I really think best case scenario (unless someone pays a decent fee for him and that, for me, would be £25m+ which is still a big loss) is we keep him here and he's either just a steady backup or he improves.
Yeah ... I really don't think we can sell him outright. For me, the most realistic option may be a loan, maybe subsidizing his wages. The hope is we can raise his stock to what it was before we bought him. I believe he has two years left on his contract, with an option for an extra year. That is, we don't need to sell immediately. We can wait, hope he does well, and flog him off after next season. And hope it doesn't blow up in our faces like Martial's loan. The wages are still a concern, though, going forward.

Unfortunately, for all the talk of Crystal Palace, I'm skeptical Vieira would want him the way he has them playing right now, but who knows? Either way, we should be looking at a club that might maximize his playing style.
 

sepulturite

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No interest. Outright misogynistic comments and bad faith arguments since the beginning. The case was a farce. Sad to see how celebrity status protects you from being abusive. Everyone on that thread seems to know how I feel so I don't want engage in mindless dirt slinging.

Also it's been a month and some folks are still going at it.
I don't want to take this thread any more off topic than I already have, but I just want to say that if you still think that Heard is the victim after watching that trial then there's no hope for you mate.

Anyway apologies mods for the off topic, I'm done now.
 

tomaldinho1

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Yeah ... I really don't think we can sell him outright. For me, the most realistic option may be a loan, maybe subsidizing his wages. The hope is we can raise his stock to what it was before we bought him. I believe he has two years left on his contract, with an option for an extra year. That is, we don't need to sell immediately. We can wait, hope he does well, and flog him off after next season. And hope it doesn't blow up in our faces like Martial's loan. The wages are still a concern, though, going forward.

Unfortunately, for all the talk of Crystal Palace, I'm skeptical Vieira would want him the way he has them playing right now, but who knows? Either way, we should be looking at a club that might maximize his playing style.
Yep I just can't see us finding a buyer this summer - I bet some of the lower table clubs are putting in ridiculously low bids to test their luck but I can't see anyone paying good money for him & then he might decide to stay after all given his wages and being at United is a great gig. That's why I'm hopeful we'll see him start to improve areas of his game because I do feel sorry for many of our young players who arrived and seem to have been thrown into a team without much of a plan. That's probably what I disliked most about previous United coaches, how lost we looked on the pitch in general versus one or two moments of class that would rescue points - if that changes, i think we'll see the younger players we've lost faith in step up.