Was the Casemiro signing a mistake?

gaffs

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Right.

But another significant difference is that Casemiro had spent the bulk of his career proving himself at the top level of football, whereas Pahlinha at 27 had spent his career playing in the Portuguese league.

The ideal player is 25-26 years old and has proven himself at a top club for 2-3 years. But then that's quite rare (and costly)... you'll have to assume the risks on age, proven ability, etc.
Like a Valverde, who Real wouldn't sell.

Big clubs don't sell those types of players, unless its is for an enormous fee. I dont recall the last player at his peak who left one big club for another. Maybe Coutinho to Barca?

Look at the big transfers now - Rice, Caicedo, Enzo, Kane, Bellingham, Gvardiol. All coming to big clubs from lesser teams.

Anyone big club selling now is doing so because they player is either past their best or they have found a better, and often cheaper replacement.

The fact that the Casemiro sale funded the Tchouameni transfer tell you all you need to know about the transfer prowess of Real Madrid and MUFC.
 

Bondi77

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We paid too much and gave him a contract that was too long.
I would have been alright with a three year deal but it looks like he is gassed already and he has not even done a year and a half :houllier: :houllier:
 

gaffs

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It's genuinely amazing how many of you have written the player off. Talking about him in the past tense. If you're going to use this season as a barometer, you can do that for the entirety of the squad who were here last season.
Im not writing him off. I just very much doubt we will see peak 22/33 Casemiro again this year, or for the remainder of his contract.

And really, was he that good, or did he just look good last season because he have not had a serviceable defensive midfielder for over a decade.
 

always_hoping

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No. His signing played a big part in United finishing 3rd in the league and winning a first trophy since 2017 last season. If United are to finish in the top 4 this season and/or win a trophy (FA Cup probably the only one winnable now) A fit and in form Casemiro will likely play a big part in that.
 

AndyMUFC

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You don't know he's going to do when he's in a functioning team. We've not been set up to help him at all and it's a long season.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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I think the terms were probably the mistake. Casemiro on a short term contract with performance incentives probably would have suited us more, but then again he would not have agreed to the deal. Fact is, we needed someone who knew how to play as a DM and he still had some gas in the tank. Age is catching up to him a bit sooner than hoped.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Casemiro was at least top-class for a season, unlike the majority of our big money signings. We won a cup and we don't get top 4 without him last season, when he arrived we were a mid-table team and would have went the way of Chelsea. I think it's too early to write him off this season, the team is in disarray and the tactics have been strange.
 

Ghostrider318

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For the money - Yes

You cant tell me we couldnt get a quality DM for that money that would last atleast 5 seasons. Yet another indictment of our lack of planning and terrible scouting infra
 

dutchred

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People forget that he had Modric and Kroos alongside him at Real. He didn't have to do all the defensive work himself and when he moved forward one of those 2 covered him. In the end we will see the benefit when he works alongide young energetic players like Mainoo and Gore. They will learn a lot from him and aslo allow him some freedom from the pure DM role he has been given
 

FerociousCorgis

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People forget that he had Modric and Kroos alongside him at Real. He didn't have to do all the defensive work himself and when he moved forward one of those 2 covered him. In the end we will see the benefit when he works alongide young energetic players like Mainoo and Gore. They will learn a lot from him and aslo allow him some freedom from the pure DM role he has been given
he physically looks done already by the time mainoo and gore are hypothetically first team starters he will be beyond past it physically
 

dutchred

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he physically looks done already by the time mainoo and gore are hypothetically first team starters he will be beyond past it physically
I disagree. He is being asked to do too much as his partners (Mac, Eriksen, Bruno, Mason) are too busy all palaying as '10' and take no defensive duties. What surprises me is that ETH has not tried him nd Amrabal together, with one of Eriksen/ Bruno/ Mason.
 

dutchred

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I disagree. He is being asked to do too much as his partners (Mac, Eriksen, Bruno, Mason) are too busy all palaying as '10' and take no defensive duties. What surprises me is that ETH has not tried him nd Amrabal together, with one of Eriksen/ Bruno/ Mason.
I would like to see a Midfiled of Casemiro Amrabat
Eriksen
With Bruno or Mason playing right until Amad is fully fit.
Sub either Casemiro or Amrabat with Mainoo and Gore last 20 minutes on a regular basis to give them playing time
 

kouroux

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I'd say no, how we used him constantly him has been a mistake. I'm talking in terms of role (way too advanced at times, creative burden wtf) and in terms of managing his minutes
 

GBBQ

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We do get lots of people saying ‘oh wow 30 is over the hill now…’ in mock sarcasm when people question the long term vision of a signing like Casemiro. it’s not just age though it’s all the high intensity games he plays and going far in all competitions for club and country.

He proved his worth last year but currently he’s off the pace and it reminds me a lot of Matic, positive instant impact with diminishing returns season on season.

Probably we’re asking too much of him given how attack minded the players he is paired with tend to be.

He did the job last year though and stopped the rot temporarily. I suppose the hope is that Mainoo steps up and takes over the position and Casemiro is more a rotation option.
 

ForFuchsSake

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Revisionism shouldn’t taint our view of the signing just because he’s struggled this year.

He was undoubtably outstanding last season and only behind Rodri as the best defensive midfielder in the league - Rodri, himself, is the best in the world.

For the transformative effect he had on the side last year I can’t categorise him as a ‘mistake’ despite his performances falling off this season. I don’t think this could have been anticipated given he was still performing at an elite level. I don’t think his current level is necessarily his ‘new norm’ either. Hopefully, we’ll see a drastic improvement after Christmas (along with the team itself)…
 
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poleglass red

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Casemiro was at least top-class for a season, unlike the majority of our big money signings. We won a cup and we don't get top 4 without him last season, when he arrived we were a mid-table team and would have went the way of Chelsea. I think it's too early to write him off this season, the team is in disarray and the tactics have been strange.
He wasn't, he had a spell in the middle of the season where he was very good, he wasn't great at the start and he had a very poor ending to the season. Add in 7 games missed via suspension as well. We'd all love that good version of him, but we aren't going to get that consistently from him. Great player no doubt, but we got him too late in his career
 

honirelandboy

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Yes we never learned from the signings of Matic and Mata when signing Varane and Casemiro, There's a reason by big clubs let these players. Varane is injury prone and Real could see Casemiro was in decline.
For the price of Casemiro and Mount we could of signing Declan Rice and McAllister and our midfield would be miles better.
 

Dannn411

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Yes it was. End of story. A blind and deaf man could have told you the moment he was signed that it would end up like this.
 

kkj25

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I am not writing him off I think we have been dysfunctional this season so can't really know for sure how he is, If we were to be sensible and say buy Andre, use Casemiro once a week/bigger matches it would actually IMO still be a signing that ends up working. I mean Matic was still ok if not needed week in week out if he had stayed we could have alternated. Not the right age profile but would have worked until a young protege could was sourced.
 

Catt

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Yes we never learned from the signings of Matic and Mata when signing Varane and Casemiro, There's a reason by big clubs let these players. Varane is injury prone and Real could see Casemiro was in decline.
For the price of Casemiro and Mount we could of signing Declan Rice.
Mata was 26 when he signed for United, the club made no mistake signing him. Dunno how old Matic was though. Casemiro didn't want to sign a new deal so he left. Not sure about Varane..
 

Iker Quesadillas

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There's a reason why a big club like Chelsea would let Juan Mata go.

Now let me just check who else they let go that transfer window. Ah, Kevin De Bruyne.
 

Dan_F

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He’s just been far more exposed than at Madrid. He’s never been someone who was asked to cover an open midfield or press higher. Not to mention Kroos and Modric are going to keep the ball much better, leaving him less exposed. Hopefully we can get a chunk of the money back in the summer for him and Varane.
 

TheRedHearted

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I think it was a panic buy after we failed to sign de Jong. It bought us Champions League football at least so I consider it a mixed success and he's still a first team player so... maybe not a failure exactly. A success with reservations. Ten Hag's second best signing so far, after Martinez.
Agreed but at his pedigree it wasn’t so panic, we needed a DM, he was available, great injury record. If we were smart and actually had a Director of football and actually listened to our scouts or had reasonably good scouts we could have signed a prospect for 20-35 plus another midfielder in the de Jong mold. It’s not like we were signing a mediocre aging midfielder with a bad injury record though
 

lex talionis

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A fair question, but who was the realistic alternative CDM who was available to us last summer?
 

Andycoleno9

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It's an £130mil outlay if he plays out 4 years.
Yes, but people behave like he is finished completely. Sure, he is not Casemiro from Real but he is still one level above Amrabat or McT. He is still a good player.
 

FerociousCorgis

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A fair question, but who was the realistic alternative CDM who was available to us last summer?
i mean the thought that literally the only available CDM in the entire world was casemiro is not true. We have a supposed scouting network. Use it.
 

gaffs

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Yes, but people behave like he is finished completely. Sure, he is not Casemiro from Real but he is still one level above Amrabat or McT. He is still a good player.
You dont pay £130mil over 4 years for one level above Amrabat or McT.

You can find that in the Premier League for half the price.
 

Andycoleno9

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You dont pay £130mil over 4 years for one level above Amrabat or McT.

You can find that in the Premier League for half the price.
We payed 70 mil (lets see will that be 130 mil) for world class player who will lift a team. His impact in first year was huge. He was our most important player with whom we achieved both goals for last season.
So far he has one great season and one not so good half season.

Again, for me his first season is already enough to justify his transfer
 

KeanoMagicHat

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He wasn't, he had a spell in the middle of the season where he was very good, he wasn't great at the start and he had a very poor ending to the season. Add in 7 games missed via suspension as well. We'd all love that good version of him, but we aren't going to get that consistently from him. Great player no doubt, but we got him too late in his career
He didn't have a very poor ending to the season, he had 2-3 great performances where he carried us at the end of the season when we were struggling over the line for Champions League. He had a a below-par month to 6 weeks or so after the League Cup, and played horrible against Liverpool but recovered well. Overall it was still a great season.
 

The-Mezzala

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I didn’t want him last season. Short term. Nothing left to prove. Massive money all round. I thought he’d become another Matic which would stop us buying a more suitable young player for x amount r of years. Then he proved me wrong by being our best player in patches. Also the young lads needed some leadership in the squad.

This season has proven my initial thoughts to be correct but he definitely is still a good player he just doesn’t seem fit yet for whatever reason.
The Matic comparison spot on. Great for a season but players can age quickly in football and both did/have. Need to take the Saudi money in Jan and buy a young DM .
 

Yagami

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He was a terrible transfer.

People saying he had a great season are reaching. It was bad, with a few good moments. Usually goals because his general play was horrific. A real detriment to any hopes of playing progressive football.

You get a lot of "he was worth it for securing cl football", which isn't true either, but whatever. Let's say he was the reason why. How's that working out for us? We've been on this rodeo before. Prioritising short term gain instead of long term, and then promptly getting embarrassed in Europe because we didn't take the time to build a good team.

When will people learn? This is not new.
 

Ali Dia

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The Matic comparison spot on. Great for a season but players can age quickly in football and both did/have. Need to take the Saudi money in Jan and buy a young DM .
The real pity is in the meantime Caciedo Enzo Bellingham Szobozlai etc have all moved. We really should be front of the line after Madrid for the very top young players. We’ve been way too passive in the market if there are other clubs interested it seems
 

The-Mezzala

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The real pity is in the meantime Caciedo Enzo Bellingham Szobozlai etc have all moved. We really should be front of the line after Madrid for the very top young players. We’ve been way too passive in the market if there are other clubs interested it seems
Cacideo was even wanted by Ole before Brighton got him and this clown show of a board said no. Ugarte now at PSG was another missed opportunity.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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People saying he had a great season are reaching. It was bad, with a few good moments. Usually goals because his general play was horrific. A real detriment to any hopes of playing progressive football.
Any evidence to say he was bad last season or just throwing that out there? The opposite argument is far stronger and has statistical and evidencial backing. BBC vote last year 53% picked him United's player of the year, but they must be all wrong. Neville said he was signing of the season in May, and made United 30% better, but he must be wrong too. He was 3rd best in his position in the league after Bruno Guimaraes and Rodri by average rating on WhoScored, but they must be wrong too. He had the third most tackles per game of any player, but he only scored goals apparently.
 

Yagami

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Any evidence to say he was bad last season or just throwing that out there? The opposite argument is far stronger and has statistical and evidencial backing. BBC vote last year 53% picked him United's player of the year, but they must be all wrong. Neville said he was signing of the season in May, and made United 30% better, but he must be wrong too. He was 3rd best in his position in the league after Bruno Guimaraes and Rodri by average rating on WhoScored, but they must be wrong too. He had the third most tackles per game of any player, but he only scored goals apparently.
You may not like my answer, and if it comes off as condescending I apologise because that's not my intention, but it's basically just my eyes. That's what I'm basing it off.

I don't care what everyone else thought of him. Judging a player is subjective. What many look for in a player, and, in this case, a midfielder, is not what I prioritise. So, every time I've watched him, and his lack of attributes I want in a midfielder are on show, I can't rate his performances. I can't rate a Manchester United midfielder who is so poor on the ball. Who can't shield it. Who can't go 5 minutes without going Hollywood Hulk Hogan. Who, when we have a team pinned back in their 3rd, carelessly gives the ball away instead of playing the safe pass negating any control we built up. Who's a coin flip on whether we'll still have possession after his first touch. I could go on.

I'm just glad more people are realising how bad he is. Everything everyone has criticised him for this season, he has been guilty of since his first appearance here. His literal debut.
 

goalscholes

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He was great last season. But we keep making the mistake of spending large amounts on players with no resale value, who will only get worse and block us signing younger promising players.

So yes, a mistake, unless we can recoup some money from Saudi
 

DSG

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Put it this way.

A much worse signing than Maguire factoring in price, number of good performances and roi.
It was an objectively bad signing. Ticked every mistake we’ve been making for 10 years.

Spend months pissing about trying to sign someone else. Sign an aging player on a long term contract with high wages. Signing made after the season had already started. Delayed full involvement due to fitness/ integration.
We can't really 'afford' it, hence the FFP difficulties were now in. These type of short sighted signings have caught up with us. He wasn't our best player last season, he had a good mid season spell and was poor outside of it.

Helped us get CL but it's now very likely we've lost it again and we're stuck with his £300k+ a week contract for a heavily declining player.

He'll be hard to offload unless we're lucky that Saudi come in and he actually wants to go.
Is it worth 60m + enormous wages to get top 4 if that player can then (seemingly) have nothing further to contribute? I'd rather spend the money elsewhere on a younger player who can hopefully contribute to more than just one 3rd place finish.
A lot of Football Manager gamers here, “buy the kid”…

The main reason we finished 3rd last season was Casemiro. I have serious doubts that we would have even made Europa with McFred. The post WC run was basically Casemiro and Rashford getting results.

‘So many big goals and assists from Casemiro last season and he helped us get results this season too.

I’m blown away by how many on the Caf are critical of Casemiro here, like our current form is 100% his fault. When we had pace in our CBs last season with Shaw - Licha - Varane - Dalot/AWB, we could play a much higher line, meaning Casemiro and Eriksen had less ground to cover. Varane/Shaw mopped up the balls over the top, and we were compact in defense.

‘Now with Evans/Maguire, they don’t have the speed to cover the balls over the top and so they have to play much deeper. Even worse, Mount isn’t disciplined enough to stay back, Eriksen is too slow/old to cover much ground. McTominay has never been an instinctual defender. What’s left? Casemiro trying to cover those gaps. He gets the blame, but actually it’s a combination of injuries and questionable tactics by Ten Hag.

At the end of the day, we’ll get 60m at least for the CL this season in revenues. Casemiro was a huge part of that, so absolutely worth it, we don’t make the CL spots if he’s not purchased.

If we want to assign blame, how about Antony? Onana? Rashford?
 

DSG

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You may not like my answer, and if it comes off as condescending I apologise because that's not my intention, but it's basically just my eyes. That's what I'm basing it off.

I don't care what everyone else thought of him. Judging a player is subjective. What many look for in a player, and, in this case, a midfielder, is not what I prioritise. So, every time I've watched him, and his lack of attributes I want in a midfielder are on show, I can't rate his performances. I can't rate a Manchester United midfielder who is so poor on the ball. Who can't shield it. Who can't go 5 minutes without going Hollywood Hulk Hogan. Who, when we have a team pinned back in their 3rd, carelessly gives the ball away instead of playing the safe pass negating any control we built up. Who's a coin flip on whether we'll still have possession after his first touch. I could go on.

I'm just glad more people are realising how bad he is. Everything everyone has criticised him for this season, he has been guilty of since his first appearance here. His literal debut.
I see… so, Real Madrid was wrong, Brazil was wrong, the pundits were wrong, the journalists were wrong, but Yagami was right. And still he can’t pinpoint what he doesn’t like about him.

Bizarre take.
 

Greck

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He was a terrible transfer.

People saying he had a great season are reaching. It was bad, with a few good moments. Usually goals because his general play was horrific. A real detriment to any hopes of playing progressive football.

You get a lot of "he was worth it for securing cl football", which isn't true either, but whatever. Let's say he was the reason why. How's that working out for us? We've been on this rodeo before. Prioritising short term gain instead of long term, and then promptly getting embarrassed in Europe because we didn't take the time to build a good team.

When will people learn? This is not new.
He was good till what I recall was an injury or suspension but I agree with the rest. Spending 50m for CL qualification sound sketchy at best. Won't that take a huge chunk of the revenue? Then you have the silent detriment of knowing he'll be due for replacement, no doubt with another 50m at least plus salaries. Is the increase in sponsorship that significant? From afar that just sounds like bad finance if money is the goal.
 
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