Was the Casemiro signing a mistake?

Oscar Bonavena

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I loved what Case did for us for most of last season, but for his age profile, his signing wasn't good value for money and we weren't going to get much more than one good season out of him.

We need to move away from signing old timers whose best days are behind them. No other big club seems to do it only us.
 

PoTMS

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Yes. Unless you think giving us 4 months worth of football and contributing us to getting top 4 / UCL football was worth £60m (+ £10m addons and £350k in wages) only to get dumped out of the group stages and needing to replace him the following season.
 

Leftback99

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A lot of Football Manager gamers here, “buy the kid”…

The main reason we finished 3rd last season was Casemiro. I have serious doubts that we would have even made Europa with McFred. The post WC run was basically Casemiro and Rashford getting results.

‘So many big goals and assists from Casemiro last season and he helped us get results this season too.

I’m blown away by how many on the Caf are critical of Casemiro here, like our current form is 100% his fault. When we had pace in our CBs last season with Shaw - Licha - Varane - Dalot/AWB, we could play a much higher line, meaning Casemiro and Eriksen had less ground to cover. Varane/Shaw mopped up the balls over the top, and we were compact in defense.

‘Now with Evans/Maguire, they don’t have the speed to cover the balls over the top and so they have to play much deeper. Even worse, Mount isn’t disciplined enough to stay back, Eriksen is too slow/old to cover much ground. McTominay has never been an instinctual defender. What’s left? Casemiro trying to cover those gaps. He gets the blame, but actually it’s a combination of injuries and questionable tactics by Ten Hag.

At the end of the day, we’ll get 60m at least for the CL this season in revenues. Casemiro was a huge part of that, so absolutely worth it, we don’t make the CL spots if he’s not purchased.

If we want to assign blame, how about Antony? Onana? Rashford?
We didn't play a 'high line' last season.

It wasn't Casemiro or nobody. A bit of scouting and we could have had say Onana and Palhinha instead last summer, who we've been linked with to basically replace him already.

We're about to crash out with Casemiro playing 2 games in the CL, heavily responsible for us losing one of them.
 

hobbers

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I’m blown away by how many on the Caf are critical of Casemiro here, like our current form is 100% his fault. When we had pace in our CBs last season with Shaw - Licha - Varane - Dalot/AWB, we could play a much higher line, meaning Casemiro and Eriksen had less ground to cover. Varane/Shaw mopped up the balls over the top, and we were compact in defense.

‘Now with Evans/Maguire, they don’t have the speed to cover the balls over the top and so they have to play much deeper. Even worse, Mount isn’t disciplined enough to stay back, Eriksen is too slow/old to cover much ground. McTominay has never been an instinctual defender. What’s left? Casemiro trying to cover those gaps. He gets the blame, but actually it’s a combination of injuries and questionable tactics by Ten Hag.

At the end of the day, we’ll get 60m at least for the CL this season in revenues. Casemiro was a huge part of that, so absolutely worth it, we don’t make the CL spots if he’s not purchased.

If we want to assign blame, how about Antony? Onana? Rashford?
Literally no one has said our current form is 100% his fault. Or that he's more at fault than ETH, Rashford, Bruno, Onana etc.

And high lines have zero to do with it. We didnt play a high line with Varane and Martinez either. Slightly higher maybe, but we're talking a few metres.

Casemiro has been stonkingly shite since the Liverpool game. His use of the ball is shocking. He doesnt track runners. Repeatedly he loses the ball and launches into desperate slide tackles that get nowhere near anything and take him out of the game.

The only part of the pitch he's done well in consistently is the opponents penalty area. That's it. He's a chunky Scott McTominay at best this season. Except we didnt pay £70m and £300k a week for McT.

The opportunity cost of spending £70m on a past-it Real bench warmer, only physically up for giving us 6 months of good football, is staggering. Just look at Palhinha who we could have got instead for let's say £40m (2x for the United tax). Now he's an £80m player and we'd be lucky to get someone to take Case off us for free.
 

Don_Johan14

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Casemiro was a short-term signing, and in my opinion, United needed to sign more in the long term.
After that, the cost of the transfer and signing is enormous, leaving less room for other operation.

Last year, he had a good stretch of play for the middle of the season. After the absences due to suspension, his performance dropped a lot.

In the coming years, it is normal that his performance will not improve except for specific matches.
 

Michael T

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Both the Casemiro and Varane signings were mistakes in my opinion. I feel it's a failure of our owners, back-room staff and scouting departments in sourcing quality younger players to fill those positions. Same with the return of Ronaldo - it's caused us no end of expensive headaches. They seem like short-term business decisions, rather than long-term footballing decisions. Hopefully Sir Jim's coming involvement will finally put an end to the practice.
 

DSG

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We didn't play a 'high line' last season.

It wasn't Casemiro or nobody. A bit of scouting and we could have had say Onana and Palhinha instead last summer, who we've been linked with to basically replace him already.

We're about to crash out with Casemiro playing 2 games in the CL, heavily responsible for us losing one of them.
We played much higher. Was it Bayern or Barcelona? No. But it was much, much higher than we can play now with Maguire/Evans.

‘That is horseshit on Onana and Paulinho. 99% of scouts and DoFs would have taken Casemiro at 30 over those two. Seriously, I don’t know what to tell you if you can’t see how good he was last year and throughout his career.
 

DSG

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Literally no one has said our current form is 100% his fault. Or that he's more at fault than ETH, Rashford, Bruno, Onana etc.

And high lines have zero to do with it. We didnt play a high line with Varane and Martinez either. Slightly higher maybe, but we're talking a few metres.

Casemiro has been stonkingly shite since the Liverpool game. His use of the ball is shocking. He doesnt track runners. Repeatedly he loses the ball and launches into desperate slide tackles that get nowhere near anything and take him out of the game.

The only part of the pitch he's done well in consistently is the opponents penalty area. That's it. He's a chunky Scott McTominay at best this season. Except we didnt pay £70m and £300k a week for McT.

The opportunity cost of spending £70m on a past-it Real bench warmer, only physically up for giving us 6 months of good football, is staggering. Just look at Palhinha who we could have got instead for let's say £40m (2x for the United tax). Now he's an £80m player and we'd be lucky to get someone to take Case off us for free.
5-7m higher line is quite a bit in top level football fella. Seriously, 2-3 steps inside the half and 2-3 steps outside the half is a massive difference.

Of course, Casemiro isn’t infallible. He absolutely has had a few poor games. But he’s come through with crucial goals, he tends to break up play / tackle further up the pitch, and he’s a much much better passer than he gets credit for. He’s excellent at recycling possession and he’s a master of the tactical foul and all of the dark arts. He’s all one-touch, McFred 2-3 touches. It’s a huge huge difference in us breaking the high press, and if you Can’t see that, don’t quit your day job, cause you ain’t making it as a football scout.
 

justsomebloke

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Im not writing him off. I just very much doubt we will see peak 22/33 Casemiro again this year, or for the remainder of his contract.

And really, was he that good, or did he just look good last season because he have not had a serviceable defensive midfielder for over a decade.
He was that good.
 

justsomebloke

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5-7m higher line is quite a bit in top level football fella. Seriously, 2-3 steps inside the half and 2-3 steps outside the half is a massive difference.

Of course, Casemiro isn’t infallible. He absolutely has had a few poor games. But he’s come through with crucial goals, he tends to break up play / tackle further up the pitch, and he’s a much much better passer than he gets credit for. He’s excellent at recycling possession and he’s a master of the tactical foul and all of the dark arts. He’s all one-touch, McFred 2-3 touches. It’s a huge huge difference in us breaking the high press, and if you Can’t see that, don’t quit your day job, cause you ain’t making it as a football scout.
I think he's had more than a few bad games this season. And none close to his top level last season.
 

Ekeke

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If he only gives us 1 season of very good performance and we dont get most of the money back then yes it was obviously a mistake. He's probably paid off about £25-30 million in 1 season and we paid over £61 million.

This is why it seemed strange that we started last season with McTom as our 6 after signing him and not getting him into the mix as soon as possible. It was always going to be to the wire to be worth a large amount of money when you're signing someone around 30.
 

NoPace

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The opportunity cost of spending £70m on a past-it Real bench warmer, only physically up for giving us 6 months of good football, is staggering. Just look at Palhinha who we could have got instead for let's say £40m (2x for the United tax). Now he's an £80m player and we'd be lucky to get someone to take Case off us for free.
I'd say this is a good case against it being a good signing, but no way we get CL football without him and my understanding of the figures involved are that we made that much in prize money and sponsorships, so he probably will end up being "worth the money" assuming we end up selling Casemiro to the Saudis for say 20M in 18 months.

6.4/10

Far better ways to spend 70M, but it's not Sancho or another signing you'd have to give a failing grade.
 

Resonance

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One good season and then 6-7 bad games the next season doesn’t make him a bad signing. The jury is still out.
 

Dearg hÉireann

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I think he was pretty good last season, not spectacular but made 51 appearances, chipped in with a few goals but his suspensions from red cards stopped it being great.
This season he's been fairly poor I think, obviously if it continues in that fashion then it will be deemed a very poor value signing but time will tell.
 

Someone

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Thought he had a great season last year, and I was under the impression that he takes good care of himself and can play at the top level well into his 30s. A bit surprised by his form this season. In hindsight yeah we were desperate and needed a quick fix, but I think the problem was that we kept chasing FDJ all summer which caused all this.
 

Marcus

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No. But we were desparate and got fleeced over the fee for a player his age.
 

Smores

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Saved us last season. He just cost too much but signing him was not a mistake
Well the fee is a substantial factor in signing someone. If we only get one good season out of him then it's been a mistake.

The financial impact of signing Casemiro and paying his wages has a direct impact on our ability to strengthen elsewhere.
 

Leftback99

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We played much higher. Was it Bayern or Barcelona? No. But it was much, much higher than we can play now with Maguire/Evans.

‘That is horseshit on Onana and Paulinho. 99% of scouts and DoFs would have taken Casemiro at 30 over those two. Seriously, I don’t know what to tell you if you can’t see how good he was last year and throughout his career.
Nope we play a higher line this season:
https://markstats.club/epl-teams-22-23/
https://markstats.club/epl-teams-23-24/

Casemiro had a decent few months for us and was poor outside it. I don't care what he did in the rest of his career.
 

Unam333

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He is a success. He was part of the team that got us CL-money this season and a trophy. Problem is we wasted quite a lot of money to find a replacement.
 

RedUnited86

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He is a success. He was part of the team that got us CL-money this season and a trophy. Problem is we wasted quite a lot of money to find a replacement.
It shows how far standards at this club have fallen that the League Cup and Champions League money is seen as a successful season.
 

thegregster

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No.

The big mistake was not using the Mount money to sign cover/long term replacement. Same goes for Varane. Without both of them we wouldn't have finished 3rd and had the platform to get to the next step. Unfortunately it appears that we have fecked all the progress up.
 

glazed

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I think we all know he was a short term success for which we are now paying the price. If Arsenal went mad and offered to trade you Rice for Casemiro and Mount you'd bite their hand off and throw in Van der Beek as a sweetener. That's how bad our transfer department is.
 

Gordon Godot

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No.

The big mistake was not using the Mount money to sign cover/long term replacement. Same goes for Varane. Without both of them we wouldn't have finished 3rd and had the platform to get to the next step. Unfortunately it appears that we have fecked all the progress up.
It was a mistake, its the classic short term solution that has typified United over the last decade. Huge amount of money in fee plus wages, clearly on the way down, now we are stuck with him and need to spend just as much on a replacement. A 2 year signing on a free would have been great. Mount is a separate issue, but another terrible Murtough/ ETH signing
 

sullydnl

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No.

The big mistake was not using the Mount money to sign cover/long term replacement. Same goes for Varane. Without both of them we wouldn't have finished 3rd and had the platform to get to the next step. Unfortunately it appears that we have fecked all the progress up.
That's assuming we couldn't instead have signed any younger and/or less expensive players who would also have managed to get us to third. Which is a big assumption given how often other clubs sign players who end up outperforming ours. It wasn't (or shouldn't have been) Casemiro & Varane or nobody good.
 

PeteRae

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He was one of our best players last season. However the short termism won’t wash. He is struggling now in a struggling team. If he wasn’t struggling maybe the team would tick better.

Someone people mention Rice, maybe not as good as Cas but long term he would have been better for us. His legs will still be in tack in 5 years time.
 

poleglass red

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One good season and then 6-7 bad games the next season doesn’t make him a bad signing. The jury is still out.
he didn't have one good season though, he started slowly last season, did well in the middle and then was poor, very poor, towards the end, plus through in 7 games missed via suspension. When he was good, his ability and what we brought was obvious, but he can't sustain that through a whole season. Had we got him on a free on a short term deal say like Ibra, then yes it would have been a better deal. Come in, win a cup, get top 4, job done, then off you go. We paid a lot of money, are paying top wages. He's been here 1 full season last year, this season between poor performances and injury he'll miss half this season. We've a short spell in the middle of last season where he looked good. For 60-70 million and what's he being paid, so far not a great signing for me personally..
 

RedCoffee

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Probably got us into a champions league spot, worth 60m pa alongside Martinez, Shaw and Rashford so yes worth the money
 

hobbers

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If we can get any money from Saudi for varane and Casemiro in January/Summer we’ll have done well to mitigate the damage of forking money to real for their cast offs
 

Aretak

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he didn't have one good season though, he started slowly last season, did well in the middle and then was poor, very poor, towards the end
A lot of people seem to have memoryholed this for some reason. I keep seeing the narrative (not just on here) that he was amazeballs last season and has only fallen off now, yet he was really poor in the latter part of last season too. As was Eriksen post-injury, and I distinctly remember the moaning about both of them and talk of how their legs had gone. There was also the excuse that the suspensions had derailed his season and that he would be fine after the summer break and a full pre-season, but obviously that's not been the case and he's still, for whatever reason, looked sluggish and unfit this season.
 

Resonance

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A lot of people seem to have memoryholed this for some reason. I keep seeing the narrative (not just on here) that he was amazeballs last season and has only fallen off now, yet he was really poor in the latter part of last season too. As was Eriksen post-injury, and I distinctly remember the moaning about both of them and talk of how their legs had gone. There was also the excuse that the suspensions had derailed his season and that he would be fine after the summer break and a full pre-season, but obviously that's not been the case and he's still, for whatever reason, looked sluggish and unfit this season.
He was one of our best players last season, you can have a bad spell of games and still have a good overall season. Just like a goal scorer can go through a barren spell and not score for a lot of games but still win the golden boot.
 

Alemar

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It wasn’t a mistake - he was by far our best player last season, without him we wouldn’t be anywhere near top 4 even.

That said, he declined severely this year
 

Daily_Blind

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Signing him wasn’t the mistake. Not signing a younger version of him to step in when the inevitable decline took place was the mistake.
 

The Purley King

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If we can get any money from Saudi for varane and Casemiro in January/Summer we’ll have done well to mitigate the damage of forking money to real for their cast offs
100% agree.
Saudi for varane and Casemiro would be perfect.
Might not even lose out on much money if that happens.
 

Tiber

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70m for 6 really good months before his legs went? clearly a bargain