Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

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ISSYNAZAR said:
Being manager of Everton and the manager of Manchester United are two different things no?
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Yes but the principle is the same. You don't willingly sell your best player. Why is that so hard to grasp? It's why I posted the quote from 2004. The principle still stands. What difference does it make if he did it a couple years ago?

I am not saying it means we're selling Rooney. However, if he is sold, no one should be surprised and say "but but but Moysie said he wasn't for sale!! :mad: "
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Being manager of Everton and the manager of Manchester United are two different things no?
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Very much so but the points remain the same.

1) You dont openly say that your player is up for sale as it lowers his value.
2) You dont keep a player who wants to be elsewhere unless you need him desperately. Again, you dont tell this to the press though.
 
The Rooney questions today was as boring as his current saga.. I wanted to hear a lot more than just Rooney.
 
Hearing a lot about Rooney being in his best shape for many years. I think the most important part is why. Why is he in his best shape for many years? Why wasnt he in great shape in the previous years? He wants a new club and thats why he's willing to get in great shape. Not for us.
 
It seems to me we know nothing now we didn't know yesterday. Moyes wants United remain. We really do know that. But what we don't know is whatr Rooney wants, whether it's an assurance he'll be the marquee player in the position of his choice, more cash or just to get the feck out of England altogether and go to Real or Barcelona or whoever would take him -- or none, or all, of the above.

Like many other posters here I don't like the position we're in now, especially as Roo has suffered no harm whatsoever at the hands of Fergie. As I see it, he should thank the gods every single night for the talent he has and the wealth and fame he has amassed and the massive role United have had in helping make him one of the most well-known (which is not to be confused with popular) athletes on the planet.

We will have to remain patient.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Not very hard to grasp that the point remains the same mate.
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That no sane manager would openly state that a star player is up for sale? that's a fairly obvious point. However the fact that he went to the trouble of rooting out an article containing Moyes' 2004 'not for sale' statement and compared it to his 2013 statement was silly IMO.

The two situations couldn't be more different.
 
This is bad news, if true (about Rooney staying). However, I believe this statement about as much as I believed anything Fergie said in the past. No matter what the situation is with Rooney, the club are hardly likely to say that he is free to leave and we don't want, subsequently knocking £5m-£10m off his asking price and putting the power in the buying clubs hands.

I still think he will leave and will only believe that he will remain at the club on 1st September when the transfer window is shut
 
Shark22 said:
That no sane manager would openly state that a star player is up for sale? that's a fairly obvious point. However the fact that he went to the trouble of rooting out an article containing Moyes' 2004 'not for sale' statement and compared it to his 2013 statement was silly IMO.

The two situations couldn't be more different.
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You'd think it was obvious but we had people earlier in the thread taking that statement at face value and saying its established now that Rooney's staying which is mental.
 
But why are is so hard to accept the point at face value and assume the only reason is to keep his price at a premium? Sometimes they do tell the truth.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
But why are is so hard to accept the point at face value and assume the only reason is to keep his price at a premium? Sometimes they do tell the truth.
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Because Moyes seems to genuinely want the fecker to stay. It doesn't seem like United are after an optimum transfer fee for him, thus they aren't playing games here. What Rooney himself wants - or what games he and his agent are playing - is a different story.
 
Striker10 said:
What are you talking about? :nono: Who do you support? That's madness. What we all want to see is him button it, and realize these are his peak years. He needs to be fit and playing and scoring goals. He's BEEN great here. He can BE great again for United.
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You can't force kids to be friends


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ISSYNAZAR said:
But why are is so hard to accept the point at face value and assume the only reason is to keep his price at a premium? Sometimes they do tell the truth.
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The two points are not mutually exclusive. Moyes killed two birds with one stone today. Show how much he wants Wayne to stay and let clubs know if we're selling him, he's not going cheap.
 
Moyes has said the right thing in talking him up and saying he is not for sale. A new manager is like having a fresh start, which is perhaps all Rooney needs.
 
The 2004 articles simply raises a decent point. He's said he's not for sale before and Rooney has left. Therefore this isnt the end of it
 
Seems as though some points of view on the "He is not for sale" are revolving around the club want to make sure they can get the best price for him but, if the club really were looking to sell him at a high price is say something along the lines of "Well if we get an insane bid, then we'd have to at least consider it and speak to Wayne about it". That would get any club looking to get Rooney to put up or shut up.

The only thing that was really clear from the statements was the "transfer request" was in a private conversation between SAF and him and there has never been an official request to the club, not even a verbal one. The exact exchange we'll never really know, even if Rooney tries to set the record state from his perspective, it will become a matter of he said / he said - so keeping his mouth shut and just getting on with things now with Moyes is best for him and the club.
 
Shark22 said:
That no sane manager would openly state that a star player is up for sale? that's a fairly obvious point. However the fact that he went to the trouble of rooting out an article containing Moyes' 2004 'not for sale' statement and compared it to his 2013 statement was silly IMO.

The two situations couldn't be more different.
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The premise is the same so what is so silly? It's a general principle. You take most things with a grain of salt. Otherwise, you leave yourself open to getting burned for what you didn't expect. In both cases, Moyes wanted him to stay. The differences come in that we are speaking about two distinct points in Wayne's career and we don't know for certain if Wayne still wants to leave/stay.
 
Shimo said:
Seems as though some points of view on the "He is not for sale" are revolving around the club want to make sure they can get the best price for him but, if the club really were looking to sell him at a high price is say something along the lines of "Well if we get an insane bid, then we'd have to at least consider it and speak to Wayne about it". That would get any club looking to get Rooney to put up or shut up.

The only thing that was really clear from the statements was the "transfer request" was in a private conversation between SAF and him and there has never been an official request to the club, not even a verbal one. The exact exchange we'll never really know, even if Rooney tries to set the record state from his perspective, it will become a matter of he said / he said - so keeping his mouth shut and just getting on with things now with Moyes is best for him and the club.
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Moyes said Rooney didn't make a verbal request? When was the last time Manchester United said we'd entertain an "insane bid" for a player?
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
But why are is so hard to accept the point at face value and assume the only reason is to keep his price at a premium? Sometimes they do tell the truth.
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Erm - ignore the response above: I misread your post. I agree - I believe Moyes wants him to stay.

One may also say, of course, that the club covers the other angle by expressing their wish that he remains - as Platato suggests. But I don't think the other angle is the principal reason Moyes said what he did - in those particular words. Not unless he's playing a needlessly elaborate game with the possible suitors.
 
The point about Best acting up - twice - above, is a good one. Roy Keane effectively held United "ransom", like Rooney did in 2010, threatening to leave for Italy if he wasn't paid more. Yes, the circumstances were slightly different, but Keane showed no absolute loyalty to the club either. He very much put himself above both club and manager at the time. As he did later too, when he publicly criticized Fergie's pre-season plan. What's my point? That Best and Keane were very different personalities compared to Rooney. They were both free spirits, regarded and accepted as such by the fans. Keano's various outbursts over the years have generally been met with "that's just Roy, he speaks his mind," even when he has come out and disrespected Fergie in a way Rooney probably wouldn't dream of.

Just pointing this out, it's not an apology for the fat (or formerly fat) scouser: He's nothing to Best or Keane, neither in terms of footballing ability nor charisma or general likeability. But it shows the irrational nature of fandom. What is unforgivable when done by a scouse chav with fake hair is easily tolerated when done by someone more tasty.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Keano's various outbursts over the years have generally been met with "that's just Roy, he speaks his mind," even when he has come out and disrespected Fergie in a way Rooney probably wouldn't dream of.
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Loads of people on here think that Keane's a cnut. Especially after his "Nani's red was justified" rant.
 
Platato said:
Moyes said Rooney didn't make a verbal request? When was the last time Manchester United said we'd entertain an "insane bid" for a player?
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Moyes said he doesn't know what was said between Rooney and Fergie and didn't need to know when asked about the transfer. If it was a official verbal request even, he'd have known about it being the new manager who was trying to make sure that one of the more important players status was taken care of. So all we know is according to Fergie, in the private conversation they had, Rooney asked for a transfer. To me there is enough in the great man's past to take everything he says with a grain of salt. It's in the real possibility that Rooney did question if he should leave and Fergie exaggerated that to say he's asked for a transfer when asked about it.

To answer your question on of when the last time, if ever, we've said we'd consider an insane bid - No clue. But, that doesn't mean it's not something that could have been said if indeed our goal is to generate interest to getting him out of the club while still getting a high bid for him rather than saying he is not for sale and putting off suitors to even trying.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The point about Best acting up - twice - above, is a good one. Roy Keane effectively held United "ransom", like Rooney did in 2010, threatening to leave for Italy if he wasn't paid more. Yes, the circumstances were slightly different, but Keane showed no absolute loyalty to the club either. He very much put himself above both club and manager at the time. As he did later too, when he publicly criticized Fergie's pre-season plan. What's my point? That Best and Keane were very different personalities compared to Rooney. They were both free spirits, regarded and accepted as such by the fans. Keano's various outbursts over the years have generally been met with "that's just Roy, he speaks his mind," even when he has come out and disrespected Fergie in a way Rooney probably wouldn't dream of.

Just pointing this out, it's not an apology for the fat (or formerly fat) scouser: He's nothing to Best or Keane, neither in terms of footballing ability nor charisma or general likeability. But it shows the irrational nature of fandom. What is unforgivable when done by a scouse chav with fake hair is easily tolerated when done by someone more tasty.
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One difference between Keane and Rooney was that Keane was clearly being paid below market rate. His point was always an honest one: I want my pay to reflect my quality and importance as a footballer. United were known for being poor payers then too. Rooney before his bumper contract would have been on good money anyway, and even if he did feel he deserved higher compensation he went about asking for it in an under-handed, deceptive manner.

George Best was an alcoholic, I don't see how his behavior is that relevant unless Rooney admits his head has been turned by London's eateries or something.
 
Gazza said:
One difference between Keane and Rooney was that Keane was clearly being paid below market rate. His point was always an honest one: I want my pay to reflect my quality and importance as a footballer. United were known for being poor payers then too. Rooney before his bumper contract would have been on good money anyway, and even if he did feel he deserved higher compensation he went about asking for it in an under-handed, deceptive manner.

George Best was an alcoholic, I don't see how his behavior is that relevant unless Rooney admits his head has been turned by London's eateries or something.
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That ain't the point. The point is that these players, Keane and Best, were much more popular with our fans than Rooney has been, especially over the last few seasons. How "unforgivable" something is seems to depend on how popular you are to begin with, not the nature of what you've actually done.

I don't mean to imply anything beyond this simple point. But I think it's a point worth mentioning.
 
Ekeke said:
Hearing a lot about Rooney being in his best shape for many years. I think the most important part is why. Why is he in his best shape for many years? Why wasnt he in great shape in the previous years? He wants a new club and thats why he's willing to get in great shape. Not for us.
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Not automatically. Maybe with 2 years remaining, he's wanting to impress a new manager. I think Rooney should sack his agent and stop being a div.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
That ain't the point. The point is that these players, Keane and Best, were much more popular with our fans than Rooney has been, especially over the last few seasons. How "unforgivable" something is seems to depend on how popular you are to begin with, not the nature of what you've actually done.

I don't mean to imply anything beyond this simple point. But I think it's a point worth mentioning.
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No, I think the nature of it DOES matter. How popular you are of course matters too. But the difference between openly asking for money that befits your status in the game and underhandedly going around agitating for more money is different and will be treated differently. Of course the fact that Roy Keane was a favourite of OT helped and conversely Rio Ferdinand didn't get any benefit of the doubt at the time he was spotted having dinner with Peter Kenyon. But Rooney was seen by United fans as more in the Keane mould (in 2010) and so I don't think there's much difference in how they were perceived by supporters, more in how they went about asking for new contracts.
 
Shimo said:
Moyes said he doesn't know what was said between Rooney and Fergie and didn't need to know when asked about the transfer. If it was a official verbal request even, he'd have known about it being the new manager who was trying to make sure that one of the more important players status was taken care of. So all we know is according to Fergie, in the private conversation they had, Rooney asked for a transfer. To me there is enough in the great man's past to take everything he says with a grain of salt. It's in the real possibility that Rooney did question if he should leave and Fergie exaggerated that to say he's asked for a transfer when asked about it.
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Is there such thing as an formal verbal request?

And i'm fairly confident that Moyes knows the pertinent details of the meeting between SAF and Rooney.


Striker10 said:
Not automatically. Maybe with 2 years remaining, he's wanting to impress a new manager. I think Rooney should sack his agent and stop being a div.
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That wouldn't say much for the respect Rooney had toward Fergie last year, or the other coaches and his team mates for that matter.
 
Gazza said:
No, I think the nature of it DOES matter. How popular you are of course matters too. But the difference between openly asking for money that befits your status in the game and underhandedly going around agitating for more money is different and will be treated differently. Of course the fact that Roy Keane was a favourite of OT helped and conversely Rio Ferdinand didn't get any benefit of the doubt at the time he was spotted having dinner with Peter Kenyon. But Rooney was seen by United fans as more in the Keane mould (in 2010) and so I don't think there's much difference in how they were perceived by supporters, more in how they went about asking for new contracts.
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You may have a point - in fact, I'll gladly concede the Keano point. His straight shooting manner served him well at the time, and was obviously easier to swallow than Rooney's approach in 2010. But this is about more than money - or the way in which players go about procuring it.

The fact is that none of Rooney's actions (there aren't that many of them, really) can explain why so many of our fans dislike him so strongly. What he has done isn't exceptional by any stretch. The Keano point again - how many players come out clean in the open and demand a pay rise, "fair" and square? What Rooney did in 2010 is run-of-the-mill these days: He used some kind of leverage to improve his contract (and by "he" I mean his agent). He then apologized to his team mates for the "ambitions" thing and said it was all business. Which it is, like it or not.

I may be crazy but to me the fact that he apologized makes him look less of a cnut than many others I can think of.

Rooney's two instances of acting up in order to change his status at the club have both been made public - and that is, I suspect, the only difference between these and countless other cases we are blissfully ignorant of
 
Striker10 said:
Not automatically. Maybe with 2 years remaining, he's wanting to impress a new manager. I think Rooney should sack his agent and stop being a div.
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The same agent that gets him the big contract deal? No chance of that happening.
 
Just watching and listening to the interview
Moyes was definitely put under pressure re the Rooney issue, and couldn't answer the question that Rooney had said he wants to stay

I for one hope he leaves, it won't give me any joy to see him surpass Bobby Charlton's record, I'll still celebrate his goals as he's scoring them for United, but that will be all. To ask to leave once is bad enough, but we needed you then, so sucked it up, I hope we don't do the same this time.
 
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