If coached properly? Most.
We’re not THAT bad
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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Didn’t mean serious potential as in we have world class footballers but serious potential in it being a very fun team to watch. There is no reason why that 11 shouldn’t be entertaining at the very least
We aren't great by any stretch, but without that cretin Mourinho, we would look a better team and be better off than we are now. I mean, Jose literally couldn't be doing a worse job than he is.
Is it clear? because we have lost to teams like Brighton and West Ham this year. You think they have better squads too?
Well if we have two world class coaches well proven to improve players at every club they went suddenly turning shit when they come to Manchester united, isn't it indicative that the problem is elsewhere?
Why use would changing the manager be if the new guy can't improve our players as well?
IF our squad is not THAT bad, then why can several players not do the very basics required to be a professional footballer?
You simply cannot blame the coaching, tactics or manager for the inability to make a simple pass, of control a ball.
So why is this? These players are much better than they are showing so are they deliberately doing it?
It could be confidence, but I don't see how that would turn good players to shit in the way some of ours have.
You simply cannot blame the coaching, tactics or manager for the inability to make a simple pass, of control a ball.
So why is this? These players are much better than they are showing so are they deliberately doing it?
It could be confidence, but I don't see how that would turn good players to shit in the way some of ours have.
Actually yes we are. We have the highest paid squad in the league and we manage to produce terrible performances week in and week out. How could this happen? Seriously almost all of our starting eleven can go and no on would regret them : Rojo, Jones, Valencia, Matic, Sanchez, Lingard, Lukaku.
We have too many mediocre overpaid players and we shouldn't give any money to Mourinho in January. He would go for Boateng and Perisic again. We should clear out the deadwood that has been present for too long at this club instead of giving them new contracts.
Get rid of them and play the kids till the end of the season, they might be worse but at least we wouldn't question their effort.
We have too many mediocre overpaid players and we shouldn't give any money to Mourinho in January. He would go for Boateng and Perisic again. We should clear out the deadwood that has been present for too long at this club instead of giving them new contracts.
Get rid of them and play the kids till the end of the season, they might be worse but at least we wouldn't question their effort.
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Problem is there are four clubs who have title aspirations in this league and then there's Arsenal who don't but are on the cusp.
If you reduce expectations to just qualifying for the top four then we still need to be able to mix it with the four best teams in this league, and I can't see how that changes much.
Still, that would be an improvement on this season where we have failed even to challenge.
There's an old say which goes like this 'before you learn how to run you must first learn how to walk'. That's the problem with United these days. We're so desperate to return winning that nothing is done properly these days. The youth academy has seen better times, our scouting staff is a joke, the club lack the experienced football people with the right contacts to deal matters like choosing the right manager for us, get rid of the deadwood and offer players fair salaries on reasonable fees etc.
I think we need to start from scratch. Lets bring the right people for the right jobs (DOF, Head of recruitment and manager) and start from there. If we get a manager whose able to motivate the players we have, who can play decent attacking football, who can fully exploit the youths he's got at his disposal (ex Periera, TFM and Tuanzebe) and make some good signings then I am happy for now. Who knows that might be enough. Neither Ranieri nor SAF had the best of squads when they won the EPL title.
The squad we have, if coached properly, is plenty capable of competing for top 4, it needs additions to compete with City and Liverpool for the title yes, but the position we are in is down purely to the manager, he's poisoning the well and creating the narrative that we have a worse squad than Everton and Arsenal, nevermind Spurs and Chelsea.
There's certainly enough talent in this team for at least for a top 4 finish. We showed as much last year. You just need to set it up in a functioning system and maintain an atmosphere where players can be consistent enough.
Now the problem is, the longer we mess up our managerial appointments and the longer we stay in the wilderness, the pressure gets bigger, there's less patience and stability, more nervous energy, players are less inclined to come and the ones that we have are more easily convinced to leave (that can at least be mitigated by throwing money around, as long as we have it) so getting back to the top gets harder.
We have enough talent, but depending on the next few years, this might not be the batch that gets us any significant success. I wouldn't get too attached all things considering.
Now the problem is, the longer we mess up our managerial appointments and the longer we stay in the wilderness, the pressure gets bigger, there's less patience and stability, more nervous energy, players are less inclined to come and the ones that we have are more easily convinced to leave (that can at least be mitigated by throwing money around, as long as we have it) so getting back to the top gets harder.
We have enough talent, but depending on the next few years, this might not be the batch that gets us any significant success. I wouldn't get too attached all things considering.
I would agree that Mourinho should take responsibility for the style of play and the tactics used on the pitch, but lets also be realistic we have a number of first team squad players with limited skills, a lack of footballing nous and/or the capability for in game management; who don't seem to communicate with each other, especially when under pressure and worst of all seem to keep making the same mistakes, exercising poor judgement, making too many bad decisions on a regular basis. These are all matters connected with the players individually and reflect attitudes you wouldn't expect from professional sportsmen.
The team Mourinho sent out against Liverpool (admittedly some missing through injury) was you felt the players he trusts to try to follow his plans, but they collectively are not good enough, even to do that and that is the fact Jose and all of us have to face up to. Honest toilers all of them, but just not good enough, now that other top 4-6 teams have strengthened.
The team Mourinho sent out against Liverpool (admittedly some missing through injury) was you felt the players he trusts to try to follow his plans, but they collectively are not good enough, even to do that and that is the fact Jose and all of us have to face up to. Honest toilers all of them, but just not good enough, now that other top 4-6 teams have strengthened.
The team play like a bunch of individuals that have turned up for a kickabout at the local park and they have only just met.
I'm pretty certain Mourinho is Bipolar and has a mental illness caused by stress.
He's a completely different man compared to the one who got the job in 2016.
Weren't there similar things said with Moyes and LVG here ?
Mourinho needs sacking ASAP as he became a big part of the proboem but the reason some think the squad is good is because they overrate many of its players. It's a top 4 squad at best, not a title challenging one.
Mourinho needs sacking ASAP as he became a big part of the proboem but the reason some think the squad is good is because they overrate many of its players. It's a top 4 squad at best, not a title challenging one.
Don't kill me as always I come in peace (I start all my post in the United forum with this).
I'm not having that you squad is not good enough. Is it as good as ours at City? No. But, its the 3rd most expensive squad in the history of football so there has to be some talent there.
You have lots of talent but some really weak areas (fullbacks). You are being misused. In Jose's first window most people would said he had a better window than Pep. You brought in some great players and kept DDG. You have a squad that should be competitive. No one can tell me that players like Pogba, Fred, Matic (who has been terrible admittedly), Sanchez are worse than players like Wijnaldum, Henderson, Keita, Mane. The issue is other managers teams are exceeding the sum of its parts (Liverpool by a mile) while you guys are not even close.
There is a core of top players and some duds.
The issue is of all the players at your club how many are now more valuable then when they signed. DDG is one for sure, but would you make a profit on any of your defenders? Matic, Pogba, Herrera, Lukaku etc... Why have so many players regressed? This team was comfortably 2nd last season and everyone was saying that in terms of ability the points gap to us was not reflective, now all of a sudden the devil has convinced you he's in charge of a £700m Southampton. A new manager, 2 fullbacks (maybe even just a right back) and you are back competing, maybe not for the title with City and Liverpool but you are certainly back among the top 4 and making strides.
But then when you think about it and going against everything I've just typed, two of the best managers in the world have failed over the last 5 seasons. LVG and Jose both have incredible CV's. Why can two world class managers fail with two powerful squads? There seems to be no easy solution and the is it the manager or is it the squad question, seems to be quite a conundrum.
I'm not having that you squad is not good enough. Is it as good as ours at City? No. But, its the 3rd most expensive squad in the history of football so there has to be some talent there.
You have lots of talent but some really weak areas (fullbacks). You are being misused. In Jose's first window most people would said he had a better window than Pep. You brought in some great players and kept DDG. You have a squad that should be competitive. No one can tell me that players like Pogba, Fred, Matic (who has been terrible admittedly), Sanchez are worse than players like Wijnaldum, Henderson, Keita, Mane. The issue is other managers teams are exceeding the sum of its parts (Liverpool by a mile) while you guys are not even close.
There is a core of top players and some duds.
The issue is of all the players at your club how many are now more valuable then when they signed. DDG is one for sure, but would you make a profit on any of your defenders? Matic, Pogba, Herrera, Lukaku etc... Why have so many players regressed? This team was comfortably 2nd last season and everyone was saying that in terms of ability the points gap to us was not reflective, now all of a sudden the devil has convinced you he's in charge of a £700m Southampton. A new manager, 2 fullbacks (maybe even just a right back) and you are back competing, maybe not for the title with City and Liverpool but you are certainly back among the top 4 and making strides.
But then when you think about it and going against everything I've just typed, two of the best managers in the world have failed over the last 5 seasons. LVG and Jose both have incredible CV's. Why can two world class managers fail with two powerful squads? There seems to be no easy solution and the is it the manager or is it the squad question, seems to be quite a conundrum.
There will be no improvement under Mourinho, of that I'm certain. There is also no quick fix but someone has to take control of this situation. The club has been pissing around hiring a DoF for too long now, it is time they got serious. Ed is oblivious to the glaring problems on the football side but never in a million years is he going to give that power up and judging by his comments he is refusing to learn.
Our next few signings must have leadership qualities and be captain material. Smalling, young and Valencia should be nowhere near the armband for such a big club. Valencia gave up a fecking shirt number because the pressure was too much and now he is club captain.
I am fearful though that a new manager will step in and come up against the same problems but optimistic that an attacking impetus will cover up some of the cracks until someone has the balls to clear out the weak players.
Our next few signings must have leadership qualities and be captain material. Smalling, young and Valencia should be nowhere near the armband for such a big club. Valencia gave up a fecking shirt number because the pressure was too much and now he is club captain.
I am fearful though that a new manager will step in and come up against the same problems but optimistic that an attacking impetus will cover up some of the cracks until someone has the balls to clear out the weak players.
Someone put it perfectly a few weeks ago.
The squad is top 3 material.
The manager is bottom half material.
Therefore our current standing of 6th/7th is about right.
The squad is top 3 material.
The manager is bottom half material.
Therefore our current standing of 6th/7th is about right.
Anywhere 3rd-6th is pretty much par for the course for this group of players. The problem is that Mourinho is no longer able to get them to perform to even their own standards, let alone surpass them.
When the players play for their countries they play very well. Even Lukaku and Fellaini. Darmian is a regular for Italy and so is Matic, and Lindelof for Serbia and Sweden. Rashford and Lingaard for England. Even Young was in and out of the squad. Valencia and Sanchez for their countries. Fred was in the Brasilian squad for the WC and DeGea is the Spanish keeper and Pogba won a world cup this year.
How come they become so terrible when they play for United?
How come they become so terrible when they play for United?
Our players are not that bad. Club has this policy, they'll fine anyone who refuse to hoof the ball forward to Fellaini or Lukaku.
No one would shine under this system
No one would shine under this system
At the moment I don’t look at that squad and think “title winning team” - but isn’t that partly because Mourinho hasn’t been able to get us playing like a team? I really don’t think that’s any indication of the players abilities.
As another poster mentioned, bar De Gea, no other player has joined us and seen his stock rise. I look at our team and no has played better for us than they did for the team they joined from. Can you say the same about the other top 4 teams? I don’t think so.
The sad reality is that we’re playing less than the sum of our parts. We’re even playing less than the individual quality of each player. We’re constantly rotating and changing systems and it’s hard to predict who will start and in what position from game to game.
I’ve been watching United for over 20 years and even under Fergie there were seasons where we didn’t have the best squad in the league, and we had the likes of Fletcher and Cleverley playing in midfield. But it still felt like we had a way of playing and we were playing like a team.
Yes we may need 2-3 changes to the squad to challenge the likes of City but reading some of the stories and posts since the game yesterday you’d almost feel like we just need to sell the entire team and start over. And I honestly don’t think that’s true.
I would bet my life that team would finish outside the top 4. That team is so soft and we would concede on set-pieces on a regular basis. Smalling and Bailly are not good in the air and both seem to concentrate more on wrestling their man instead of winning headers.
Who would win the ball back in midfield? Maybe Herrera, but Fred and Pogba certainly haven't shown the ability to break up play and win back possession on a regular basis.
And the front three.... It would be interesting only to see who gave the ball away more each week.
These players are living off reputation, and to a man are soft. The first sign of a challenge and they would all hide.
Are We that bad? Well, I guess it depends on expectations. If we, as fans, expect, to dine at Europe’s top table, or even title challenge in the PL, then we’re miles behind, compared to the very top teams. Not just starting XI, but squad depth as well.
We’ve not been in a title challenge, for 6 seasons, barely even, finishing within the Top 4.
So if we lower expections, and accept, at present, we’re a 5th-8th club, then the answer, is no, we’re arent that bad.
The team, the OP posted, is an average team. That, I don’t think, would finish top 4.
Herrera, isn’t what is needed as a defensive minded midfielder or a deep lying playmaker. Fred, hasn’t shown us anything, he could start week in, week out, for a side, with title winning ambitions. Rashford, certainly not up top as our centre forward, not yet, maybe in the future. The Cb’s are average.
A new manager, who believes in, attack minded football, would surely, get more out of this squad.
I think maybe 4 additions, would see us, back in the top 4. We’d have to constantly, outspend, the top 4 clubs currently in the PL, to get title winning again.
We’ve not been in a title challenge, for 6 seasons, barely even, finishing within the Top 4.
So if we lower expections, and accept, at present, we’re a 5th-8th club, then the answer, is no, we’re arent that bad.
The team, the OP posted, is an average team. That, I don’t think, would finish top 4.
Herrera, isn’t what is needed as a defensive minded midfielder or a deep lying playmaker. Fred, hasn’t shown us anything, he could start week in, week out, for a side, with title winning ambitions. Rashford, certainly not up top as our centre forward, not yet, maybe in the future. The Cb’s are average.
A new manager, who believes in, attack minded football, would surely, get more out of this squad.
I think maybe 4 additions, would see us, back in the top 4. We’d have to constantly, outspend, the top 4 clubs currently in the PL, to get title winning again.
Not to hype up either Chelsea or Arsenal, but the difference the mentality of a manager can make on a team is huge. Arsenal looked lost last season, this season they have signed some decent players and Emery seems to have them playing a brand of football with a lot more purpose than Wenger had in the latter years of his tenure. Likewise Chelsea and Sarri. Sarri has Chelsea playing some quality stuff and they look much better than last year under Conte. Now I know they are still miles away from City and Liverpool, but both Klopp and Guardiola have had more time to stamp their identity on their respective teams. Have to remember Guardiola finished 3rd in his first season in charge, likewise Klopp took a few seasons to adjust.
What i'm trying to say is that you don't need 5 transfer windows, a €400m budget and world beaters in every position before you can have a team playing your 'brand' of football. Whats even worse is that Mourinho has had all of this, and still bemoans lack of quality in his side. We play with 0 imagination, 0 fluidity and 0 sense of purpose, cowardly and minimal risk football the likes of which mid to lower table teams play against the big sides. I actually think that most of the teams below us play better football, but the only reason we are 7th and not even lower is that we have some really talented individuals who can produce against the lower teams, aka matches against Bournemouth and Newcastle. The reason we can't do it against the likes of Liverpool or City is because its hard to attack whatsoever when the entire team is camped in their own half and already gassed from chasing the ball. Its very hard to break 80 yards up the pitch and take the minimal chances you make on a consistent basis, it just doesn't happen. And that tactic is just inherently flawed when we're already leaking goals.
Regardless, this notion that the players aren't good enough, and that sacking Mourinho won't solve anything, is just baffling to me personally. I'm not saying the players have downed tools, nor am I suggesting that it is acceptable to do so, but how can we expect them to enjoy their football? And if they're not enjoying their football then how can we expect them to produce world class performances. I think Pogba is one of the most gifted players on the planet, and part of me thinks he's an absolute clown, while the other part of me has sympathy for him. What i will say about him is that he knows the footballer that he is, what he can do and what he's good at, if i was him I would just be wondering 'why the hell did United and Mourinho buy me?' I'm not absolving him of of his defensive duties in the team, but under Mourinho, defence seems to be his no. 1 objective. The number one objective for every player seems to be 'stop them from scoring and then do something when we get the ball'. How can Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Lingard or any of our attackers play consistent, quality football when their primary objective seems to be what they can offer going back the field, not what they can do in the opposition half. Buying Pogba and playing the football we do is like buying a ferrari and never taking it out of second gear. You don't see Messi putting in defensive shifts week in, week out. Was Iniesta not a great midfielder because he wasn't good enough defensively? Would Iniesta even play in this team? The sad thing is that I think Mourinho would prefer Fellaini over perhaps the greatest midfielder to ever play football.
Why buy Pogba, a player who has obvious ability and strengths, play him in a system that doesn't suit him, a style that doesn't align with his qualities, and then wonder why he is not performing? And then people turn around and say "well he cost 90m he should perform regardless." That is absolute nonsense. If that was the case then why even bother with a manager? If out top players should perform regardless of our manager or our style, then why do we seem so obsessed with who is the right man to take us out of this mess.
I'm just using Pogba as an example here, the same pretty much goes for all of our attacking and creative players. How can they perform to the best of their abilities in this set up, with this style. And then people say 'well Mourinho bought Matic to facilitate Pogba, switched to a 3 man midfield" bla bla bla. Did we change how we played? We bought Matic and essentially we just have another body in midfield to protect the back 4. Did we change our style, or become more attacking? You could play Pogba in the #10 free role, let him do what he wants, and there would still be no difference, because against top teams we can't even manage to have 40% posession, home or away. That's the problem.
What i'm trying to say is that you don't need 5 transfer windows, a €400m budget and world beaters in every position before you can have a team playing your 'brand' of football. Whats even worse is that Mourinho has had all of this, and still bemoans lack of quality in his side. We play with 0 imagination, 0 fluidity and 0 sense of purpose, cowardly and minimal risk football the likes of which mid to lower table teams play against the big sides. I actually think that most of the teams below us play better football, but the only reason we are 7th and not even lower is that we have some really talented individuals who can produce against the lower teams, aka matches against Bournemouth and Newcastle. The reason we can't do it against the likes of Liverpool or City is because its hard to attack whatsoever when the entire team is camped in their own half and already gassed from chasing the ball. Its very hard to break 80 yards up the pitch and take the minimal chances you make on a consistent basis, it just doesn't happen. And that tactic is just inherently flawed when we're already leaking goals.
Regardless, this notion that the players aren't good enough, and that sacking Mourinho won't solve anything, is just baffling to me personally. I'm not saying the players have downed tools, nor am I suggesting that it is acceptable to do so, but how can we expect them to enjoy their football? And if they're not enjoying their football then how can we expect them to produce world class performances. I think Pogba is one of the most gifted players on the planet, and part of me thinks he's an absolute clown, while the other part of me has sympathy for him. What i will say about him is that he knows the footballer that he is, what he can do and what he's good at, if i was him I would just be wondering 'why the hell did United and Mourinho buy me?' I'm not absolving him of of his defensive duties in the team, but under Mourinho, defence seems to be his no. 1 objective. The number one objective for every player seems to be 'stop them from scoring and then do something when we get the ball'. How can Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Lingard or any of our attackers play consistent, quality football when their primary objective seems to be what they can offer going back the field, not what they can do in the opposition half. Buying Pogba and playing the football we do is like buying a ferrari and never taking it out of second gear. You don't see Messi putting in defensive shifts week in, week out. Was Iniesta not a great midfielder because he wasn't good enough defensively? Would Iniesta even play in this team? The sad thing is that I think Mourinho would prefer Fellaini over perhaps the greatest midfielder to ever play football.
Why buy Pogba, a player who has obvious ability and strengths, play him in a system that doesn't suit him, a style that doesn't align with his qualities, and then wonder why he is not performing? And then people turn around and say "well he cost 90m he should perform regardless." That is absolute nonsense. If that was the case then why even bother with a manager? If out top players should perform regardless of our manager or our style, then why do we seem so obsessed with who is the right man to take us out of this mess.
I'm just using Pogba as an example here, the same pretty much goes for all of our attacking and creative players. How can they perform to the best of their abilities in this set up, with this style. And then people say 'well Mourinho bought Matic to facilitate Pogba, switched to a 3 man midfield" bla bla bla. Did we change how we played? We bought Matic and essentially we just have another body in midfield to protect the back 4. Did we change our style, or become more attacking? You could play Pogba in the #10 free role, let him do what he wants, and there would still be no difference, because against top teams we can't even manage to have 40% posession, home or away. That's the problem.
Worth noting Man. United have 5th worst defence in league now. Think it's Cardiff, Fulham, Southampton and Burnley who are only teams to concede more and you all know where they are in the league.
Huddersfield incredibly have conceded one less league goal (28) than Man United (29).
Huddersfield incredibly have conceded one less league goal (28) than Man United (29).
There is a reason why we are so bad this season. This same defence was the second best last season. It is the front man and the midfield. This season no sooner has the defence clears the ball it is back at them. Neither the front players and neither the midfield can hold the ball to give them a breather.
Change Matic and get a good defensive midfield player and another striker who can hold the ball and we will be much better.
Change Matic and get a good defensive midfield player and another striker who can hold the ball and we will be much better.
It's interesting to consider what type of team/system Jose wanted to create here and the fact that in 3 seasons he sees it as being a 'long way away' from being one of 'his' sides.
Personally, I think Jose's plan for United was to use a 4-2-3-1 system with Pogba as a deep/creative centre midfielder and Lukaku as the powerful striker. He seriously misjudged both player's suitability to play those roles. Lukaku as a target man just doesn't work and Jose wants Pogba to do a conservative job in the midfield which he clearly doesn't want to do. He then signs Fred ostensibly with the idea of playing a 4-3-3 but soon abandons that. The guy has made some serious errors and has to account for his own failings.
Personally, I think Jose's plan for United was to use a 4-2-3-1 system with Pogba as a deep/creative centre midfielder and Lukaku as the powerful striker. He seriously misjudged both player's suitability to play those roles. Lukaku as a target man just doesn't work and Jose wants Pogba to do a conservative job in the midfield which he clearly doesn't want to do. He then signs Fred ostensibly with the idea of playing a 4-3-3 but soon abandons that. The guy has made some serious errors and has to account for his own failings.
Liverpool fan here, so obviously not biased at all! 
I don't think Liverpool's squad is necessarily man-for-man better than United's. In fact, you could make the argument that Manchester United ought to have a comparable attack (Martial, Rashford, Lukaku vs Salah, Mane and Firmino), arguable better midfield (Pogba, Mata, Matic, Fred vs Henderson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Shaqiri) and maybe a worse defence (Liverpool's back four is arguably the best in the premier league just now) and on pedigree, Man Utd ought to have a better goalkeeper. On current form, I would probably mostly pick Liverpool players over Manchester United's, but to be honest, Van Dijk aside, I have mostly been quite jealous at the signings Manchester United has been able to make. At the time of the transfers, Pogba, Lukaku, etc felt big and consequential, and Liverpool looked like it was shopping in the bargain basement bin by comparison (Robertson, Klavan , Matip, Shaqiri anyone). Until Van Dijk, Liverpool had barely crossed the 40m mark on a single transfer while United by then had probably broken that mark half a dozen times already.
However, I would say that from the outside, Mourinho seems to have managed to make the team less than the sum of its parts. Yes, players like Bailly and Lindelof haven't exactly set the world alight, but they are competent footballers, or were competent enough to convince Manchester United to part with a lot of money for them. Even players like Matic look a shadow of their former selves, barely able to do the basic things that made them indispensible parts of title winning sides.
I would say that Mourinho does not believe in reinvention, and is being increasingly shown up as a one-trick pony. It was a very good pony mind - who can argue with Mourinho's winning record. By comparison, other managers seem to evolve as the game changes.
I think any top manager can find themselves struggling for inspiration. However, when your thing is winning rather than playing good, enjoyable football, it can become a drag. Mourinho does not have anything else he can turn to. I believe that if Manchester Utd was playing good football but clearly falling short in specific areas, there wouldn't be the negative air around the club. There can be a lot of goodwill towards a manager if results are going wrong, but performances, or at least part of them, are acceptable. There are times when I question whether Mourinho actually likes football - whether, if he was not a millionaire many times over, he would want to pay to watch his own teams play.
I don't think Liverpool's squad is necessarily man-for-man better than United's. In fact, you could make the argument that Manchester United ought to have a comparable attack (Martial, Rashford, Lukaku vs Salah, Mane and Firmino), arguable better midfield (Pogba, Mata, Matic, Fred vs Henderson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Shaqiri) and maybe a worse defence (Liverpool's back four is arguably the best in the premier league just now) and on pedigree, Man Utd ought to have a better goalkeeper. On current form, I would probably mostly pick Liverpool players over Manchester United's, but to be honest, Van Dijk aside, I have mostly been quite jealous at the signings Manchester United has been able to make. At the time of the transfers, Pogba, Lukaku, etc felt big and consequential, and Liverpool looked like it was shopping in the bargain basement bin by comparison (Robertson, Klavan , Matip, Shaqiri anyone). Until Van Dijk, Liverpool had barely crossed the 40m mark on a single transfer while United by then had probably broken that mark half a dozen times already.
However, I would say that from the outside, Mourinho seems to have managed to make the team less than the sum of its parts. Yes, players like Bailly and Lindelof haven't exactly set the world alight, but they are competent footballers, or were competent enough to convince Manchester United to part with a lot of money for them. Even players like Matic look a shadow of their former selves, barely able to do the basic things that made them indispensible parts of title winning sides.
I would say that Mourinho does not believe in reinvention, and is being increasingly shown up as a one-trick pony. It was a very good pony mind - who can argue with Mourinho's winning record. By comparison, other managers seem to evolve as the game changes.
I think any top manager can find themselves struggling for inspiration. However, when your thing is winning rather than playing good, enjoyable football, it can become a drag. Mourinho does not have anything else he can turn to. I believe that if Manchester Utd was playing good football but clearly falling short in specific areas, there wouldn't be the negative air around the club. There can be a lot of goodwill towards a manager if results are going wrong, but performances, or at least part of them, are acceptable. There are times when I question whether Mourinho actually likes football - whether, if he was not a millionaire many times over, he would want to pay to watch his own teams play.
All this is exactly right. Start from scratch, with a long-term plan/strategy, and re-build a dynasty build step by step.
Our squad is good but that doesn’t mean as a team we’re not atrocious at the moment. It’s our worst start in 26 years. Right now we’re playing like a relegation candidate.
Need to get a centre back in Jan and hopefully even a solid Matic replacement and we could potentially challenge for top 4. Can’t see it though.
Need to get a centre back in Jan and hopefully even a solid Matic replacement and we could potentially challenge for top 4. Can’t see it though.
unfortunately for Manchester United your squad simply is ‘that bad’ . As a Liverpool fan I used to look at your team and just see talent in every position. I don’t see that now. You’d struggle to find a top four/five team that would take more than two at most players from your squad and even then they’d be squad players and not fit into their first eleven. You’ve signed some dross. Yes I do think they are capable of playing much better yet I still think your about the right position in the league with this set of players.
We are less than the sum of our parts just now. The names on the teamsheet often look strong (defence excluded) but as a team we are a shit show just now. We all know something is badly wrong, and many of us suspect the problems go beyond the manager. If we could get a top class centre back partnership, we'd improve enormously, but that still leaves the manager/board/ownership problems. We have big problems in all areas of the club.
squad is not that good guys and girls. Accept it and get over it. Mix of a little bit of underdeveloped and inconsistent youth with potential, a LOT of midtable or worse players, and not enough top class quality. Overwhelming majority wouldn’t look out of place in a West Ham shirt.
Overall, our team is not bad. On the other hand, I believe some of them, especially the young players, possess the potential to be top footballers in PL at least, but they need someone to coach them. And we need someone to take care of our tactics.
Also, I do not agree with some comments that replacing them by STARS is the only way to chase the title. If I look back to SAF days, I won't deny that most of our players were not world class, but our team was a world class champion. What I saw was though Sir Ferguson's squad always had only one to two top players, he did a fantastic job to build a team around them. So when they put on their red shirt, they fought till the end and they won their matches.
In my opinion, just let go several players like Matic and Sanchez who are coming down from their peaks. SAF days may not come back, but Red will be definitely be no joke to other 19 teams anymore. (Too optimistic?)
Also, I do not agree with some comments that replacing them by STARS is the only way to chase the title. If I look back to SAF days, I won't deny that most of our players were not world class, but our team was a world class champion. What I saw was though Sir Ferguson's squad always had only one to two top players, he did a fantastic job to build a team around them. So when they put on their red shirt, they fought till the end and they won their matches.
In my opinion, just let go several players like Matic and Sanchez who are coming down from their peaks. SAF days may not come back, but Red will be definitely be no joke to other 19 teams anymore. (Too optimistic?)
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Apparently we are.
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