We’re not THAT bad

[leontas]

Jose has succeeded in lowering our standards and expectations this season. But our squad is not as bad as he makes it out to be. We are playing some of the most disjointed football I’ve ever seen from a football team but I strongly believe we have the quality to not only be in the top 4 but also challenging the league leaders.

We only need to appoint an attacking-minded manager to get the best out of our players but I’m optimistic that it won’t take years of rebuilding to get us to where we want to be.

If you think about it, we could be fielding a starting XI like this one, which should be playing fast and exciting football:

De Gea

Dalot
Bailly
Smalling
Shaw

Herrera
Fred
Pogba

Martial
Rashford
Sanchez

And we still have potentially exciting players on the bench or coming through the academy like Mata, Andreas, Gomes, Greenwood, Chong etc.

That’s a team that should be easily beating lower table teams and taking the game to the other top 6 teams. A manager that actually trains these players into a cohesive attacking unit that presses the opposing teams and plays fast transitions will be successful.

In addition, we need a DoF that will work with the next manager to make minor tweaks to increase the depth of our squad. Next summer is hugely important for this as we have quite a few players coming to the end of their contracts.

These are steps we should be taking now to put everything in place for next summer. But in short we shouldn’t be preparing ourselves for years of mediocrity. We’re not that far away from challenging again. We just need to get the next manager right.

 

[Varun]

Yes, our squad is fine. Needs tweaks but most squads do.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Don’t think anyone really disagrees with this bar the staunch Jose-in crowd (who are a dying breed, thankfully) who will slate everyone and anyone bar their precious Jose.

 

[El Presidente]

Of course we have some great players but they won’t stick around much longer and rightly so.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah our squad is not that bad. It's just that Jose has done superb job in convincing everyone on how hard it is to do the job.

Btw, saw reddit post (from Jose's interview in 2015) where he said he has stopped doing lot of things in training now and training is not all that important, ability to adapt is. This sort of explains why we are so disjointed.

 

[horsechoker]

Our squad is not that bad so why does it perform so poorly?

This question has baffled scientists for centuries but perhaps the answer is clear...

 

[Robbie Boy]

Southampton sacked their dated, dour manager and already look a better prospect. Mourinho is a colossal problem.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I truly believe if we had any of the top four managers since the start of the season, we would be a lot better off. So yeah, common denominator there....

 

[crossy1686]

We need about three new players in defence and to replace whoever's been broken by the current regime. Some of these players haven't performed under two to three managers now, to give them more time or more chances is a mockery to the club and its fans.

 

[Barca84]

It's a squad that looks like it should be competing for top four. Not good enough to trouble City but who is?

The problem has to be the manager.

 

[Member 113277]

We need two leaders.

1. on the field
2. coach

This squad could be transformed with the above (and a couple of good signings).

 

[B20]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

Yeah, nah...

 

[JPRouve]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

You could say the same thing about a good chunk of your players if it wasn't for Klopp and his management.

 

[settembrini]

I don't have much hope we will get the next manager right. We like appointing people who peaked a long time ago and are firmly in the declining part of their career.

 

[Member 113277]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

As would most of your squad, apart from Salah and Virgil.

 

[Robbie Boy]

You could say the same thing about a good chunk of your players if it wasn't for Klopp and his management.

When Jordan Henderson is your club captain.... Imagine the likes of Mane and Robertson with us, they would look just as fecking awful as the rest of them.

 

[Eugenius]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

And your team which has been half plucked from the likes of Southampton and Newcastle?? Full of world beaters like Lovren, Winaldjum, Clyne?

 

[DWelbz19]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

In the same way that pre-Klopp, Wijnaldum, Milner, Shaqiri, Henderson, and Robertson wouldn’t either.

No squad (apart from City’s) is loaded with star studded talent in near enough every position.

A cohesive system and player confidence does eons to a team. Ours have been at rock bottom for at least a year now.

 

[Hawks2008]

The talent is there, needs some work but an actually good coach would get something out of the squad.

 

[Robbie Boy]

In the same way that pre-Klopp, Wijnaldum, Milner, Shaqiri, Henderson, and Robertson wouldn’t either.

No squad (apart from City’s) is loaded with star studded talent in near enough every position.

A cohesive system and player confidence does eons to a team. Ours have been at rock bottom for at least a year now.

It's just a giddy Liverpool fan, that's all. Don't forget Fergie's last title winning teams had players like Hernandez, Cleverley, Welbeck, O'Shea, Park etc, etc. Of course it has a-lot to do with the coaching and management. Our team under a progressive, attack-minded manager would look a-lot better than the shite we have been serving up. That Liverpool team on paper does nothing for me, but they are being coached well and even bang average players like Shaqiri are looking good.

 

[Bubz27]

We need about three new players in defence and to replace whoever's been broken by the current regime. Some of these players haven't performed under two to three managers now, to give them more time or more chances is a mockery to the club and its fans.

Tbf, from the OP the only one who fits that criteria is Smalling, and I think most will agree he would do with replacing. And Herrera. I like him, but would have him as a squad player who'd still rack up 35-40 appearances a season not really let you down.

 

[ZlatMan]

People need to stop deluding themselves into thinking this squad is good - it's not, it's gabarge even worse than the Moyes era. What we saw last night are players in Man Utd shirts unable to do simple 5 yard passes, that is a joke! Jose was right to downplay expectations because this team isn't good enough for top 4 which is gone for a while. Let us not forget this is hugely the same team that finished 2nd place ahead of Spurs and Liverpool with the best defence in the league. This now should be taken as a miracle because this same squad can't even do the basic right.

I know you lot are gonna have none of Jose's words so I tell you this simple fact - he is the same manager that taught players do the basics right which got him success in everywhere he goes including United. Did he forgot his principles in just one season half or did the players went "feck this! We can do whatever we want"?

This same shitty attitude bought down LVG and same is doing for Jose. Whoever comes in need to get rid of the poisonous dressing room before the same happens to him.

 

[Stepney73]

The quality of both squads yesterday was more or less even but Liverpool looked like a team pulling in one direction while our team looked like 11 people that had all just met each other for the first time on the car park an hour before kick off.

 

[Robbie Boy]

People need to stop deluding themselves into thinking this squad is good - it's not, it's gabarge even worse than the Moyes era. What we saw last night are players in Man Utd shirts unable to do simple 5 yard passes, that is a joke! Jose was right to downplay expectations because this team isn't good enough for top 4 which is gone for a while. Let us not forget this is hugely the same team that finished 2nd place ahead of Spurs and Liverpool with the best defence in the league. This now should be taken as a miracle because this same squad can't even do the basic right.

I know you lot are gonna have none of Jose's words so I tell you this simple fact - he is the same manager that taught players do the basics right which got him success in everywhere he goes including United. Did he forgot his principles in just one season half or did the players went "feck this! We can do whatever we want"?

This same shitty attitude bought down LVG and same is doing for Jose. Whoever comes in need to get rid of the poisonous dressing room before the same happens to him.

#MourinhoIn

 

[JPRouve]

When I look at the OP's lineup, I see a team that would require 1 upgrade per line and a good coach in order to be really good. A ball playing CB, a midfield controller and a shifty wide player.

 

[Raw]

I agree. I wouldn't say it's good enough to be challenging for the title, but with a few smart signings it can win the title or at least be very close to City.

It depends on how much a new manager would get out of the players, but I think a centre back, defensive midfielder and a top striker would put us right up there. Maybe a very good right winger too if Sanchez truly is finished.

There's still a lot of deadwood to clear out though, but again it remains to be seen if a new manager can turn those players around.

 

[VJ1762]

Don’t think anyone really disagrees with this bar the staunch Jose-in crowd (who are a dying breed, thankfully) who will slate everyone and anyone bar their precious Jose.

Does this mean Jose is the One Ring?

 

[Westerkerk]

We are far less than the sum of our parts. We have been for a while and will continue to be under Jose. That is reason enough for him to be sacked.

We need football leaders who share the same vision. That's on and off the pitch. We need a manager with a clear vision for the club and leaders on the pitch who believe in it. We have neither but for certain, the former has to come before the latter .

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

The big problems are;

1. Lack of defensive foundation.
2. Lack of characters
3. Lack of system
4. Gap between board and manager
5. Quality

Which begs the question, which manager can tackle these issues? And can/will board acknowledge their lack of football competence (recruiting, football know how, etc.) to therefore make place for those who do?

The club is in turmoil. There is no denying in that. In this moment of time, it’s of importance that the manager and team salvaze something from this season (top 4 finish), but it wouldnt come as a huge surprise if this objective isnt achieved this season.

 

[SER19]

Id say most agree with that we have plenty of talented players. Jose should be getting more from them. I still dont believe a manager change will solve all our problems or certainly not quickly. Under each of our last 3 managers we have seem the same issues with motivation attitude and work rate despite large changes in players. See arsenal for wengers last ten years. There is a cultural change that needs to occur and the pressure and expectation at united are higher so we never seem far from a 'disaster' narrative . (Separately i think emery is doing a great job)

Any new manager deserves time provided the football is improving.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

A defensive manager like Mourinho needs a good defense. Our squad aren’t that bad apart from our back four. Our back four aren’t good enough and it’s Jose’s fault not able to make it priority. Even though he already had Pogba, Herrera, Martial & Rashford, He would still rather spend huge on overpriced striker like Lukaku, unused midfielder Fred and the past Sanchez than try to fix the defense first. Poor man management if he thinks he can win 1-0 every game by parking the bus with our current defense week in week out.

 

[OldPop]

Both yes and no. The truth is probably there between.

Everything that the coach says is not wrong, for example, that many competitors got better finances, managed to retain and hire good players.

Some players have also passed their best years and some will probably never get better.

But you are quite right in that the majority of the squad can be significantly better and that, with the right people in the club, probably does not have to take too much time to do.

A lot of things are about self-confidence, as many people point out in other threads, and it can change very quickly. So yes, I still agree on your conclusion!

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Pogba, Martial and De Gea aside most of your squad wouldn't look out of place at other midtable teams.

Not actually true. You're equating the performance of the players this year with their actual or potential ability; Hererra is a better player than most midfielders in the league. Smalling would get in most PL teams. Sanchez was a star before playing for us. Mata is an excellent player that would walk into most teams. Fred was excellent before joining us. Shaw looks like a world beater when confident and fit. They're just playing in a gash system, with no confidence, no direction, no leadership and no established pattern of play.

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah our squad is not that bad. It's just that Jose has done superb job in convincing everyone on how hard it is to do the job.

Btw, saw reddit post (from Jose's interview in 2015) where he said he has stopped doing lot of things in training now and training is not all that important, ability to adapt is. This sort of explains why we are so disjointed.

Not really, Fergie stopped taking training a long, long time ago and we were always successful. You can't see a bigger picture when you're in the thick of it, it's better for the manager to stand back and get an overview of things instead.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Not really, Fergie stopped taking training a long, long time ago and we were always successful. You can't see a bigger picture when you're in the thick of it, it's better for the manager to stand back and get an overview of things instead.

If you have excellent coaches who both develop the players technically and who understand perfectly your tactical objectives and are able to instill these in the players in training then yes. But this requires flawless integration and communication between coaches and manager. I think historically Jose had this with his trusted backroom team. That's obviously broken down (is it the first time Faria has not worked with Mourinho now?)

 

[Jackxxx]

If this squad is bad, than Jose has to go because he is the one building the squad last 3 years.

If this squad is not bad than Jose has to go because he is not able to improve the performance of the squad and to take out the most of the players.

And yes, we are that bad. Right now, we are that bad. The only think Jose reached is to make the team look more boring than the LVG team. At least in LVG era we had the ball to play with. Now we are looking how the other teams are passing the ball around our players.

 

[Westerkerk]

If you sack a manager because they are underperforming then the next managers brief must surely only be the improve the performances of the team and enable progress? Especially if you only give that manager a three year contract, then surely you're expecting the minimum of that, and not to wine title after title or build a legacy .

Jose has been an abject failure. He has made the team worse and dragged Manchester United further into the mire that we stepped into when Moyes was appointed. All at the same time as spunking vast amounts of the club's hard earned money on players he later throws under a bus and says isn't good enough.

The rot has got to stop now by sacking this cnut.

 

[Matt007a]

We're not as good as the 2nd place last season suggests, but neither are we as bad as 11 points behind the top 4. We should really be in and around Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs even if we ended up 6th by a small margin.

You'll never have a team of 11 world class players. The best teams have 2-3 world beaters and 8-10 very good players to back them up. Even Madrid/Barca/Bayern follow this model. Man City are becoming an exception to the rule with their incredible spending power, but even then not all of their players are in the top bracket. The difference with City/Liverpool is that their managers elevate players to perform above their usual level.

Milner and Henderson are pretty much comparable to Lingard and Herrera. They're all similar level of ability, but two of them excel under a coach who knows how to get them playing at 100% every week, while the other two look completely devoid of instructions on how to make the game plan work.

Our De Gea, Pogba, Martial is their Allison, Van Dijk, Salah. Again though their players are purpose bought to play a clear and distinct style of football. Our players are bought for their individual quality or big name reputation, regardless of whether they fit into the puzzle.

 

[roonster09]

Not really, Fergie stopped taking training a long, long time ago and we were always successful. You can't see a bigger picture when you're in the thick of it, it's better for the manager to stand back and get an overview of things instead.

SAF delegated training to first team coaches. Jose is hands on coach.

The guy who translated Jose's interview said this ' It's an interview that he gave a few years back where he says that since everyone can go online and see how Guardiola trains, how Simeone trains, etc, that training is no longer the most important part but adapting to the moment is.."

So this isn't like SAF where he delegated training to first team coaches.