The Matic cycle: Plays really well, everyone asks why he hasn’t been getting more minutes, gets more minutes, plays shite, is dropped. We’ve just witnessed it’s final iteration thank feck.
We’ve criminally underused Matic and Mata these past few seasons
- Thread starter The Corinthian
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both were disgarded by Chelsea as Matic was on his way down and Mata is far too weak and lacks dynamism. We have enough evidence of what he lacks so not many managers would make him brilliant. don't even think he has done much for spain these last 7 years.
They haven't been great for 7-5 seasons. Why are they great?
he spends ages deciding what pass to make, twisting and turning then just passing to the defender. He has shown us he isn't good enough at this and ends up frustrating
One of the worst signings by Jose. 40million on a player our own rivals saw as on a decline and they used the money for Kante. Annoying
Gonna have to pin this and requote next year when they have their 5-7 good games
hilarious. What teams are these then.
No. giggs could actually dribble.
the responses to these recent games are hilarious. A big problem with United is that we hang onto dead players like Matic and Mata rather than replacing them with dudes who can give us 20 + solid games per season or that make us better. Neither would be part of any title challenging or CL team.
Revisionism at it's best.
My memory is better than yours obviously. For starters, when did Mata have 'strings' (plural) of bad games, when he hasn't played a string of games for God knows how long. He's had games where he might not have been especially influential but that goes for all of them. I genuinely can't think of a time when he was as consistently under par in the way Bruno has been.
Last time he did have a run he had a couple of MoMs and was player of the month. Did these 'strings of poor performances' occur when he was playing in his best position?
This season we've watched our 'best eleven' under-perform every week, without even the consolation that they tried. I don't believe that in Mata's 'strings of poor performances' he never showed some effort and some passion. We've been mediocre without Mata and lacked what he showed last night, and in his brief appearance against Arsenal.
Even Ronaldo looked a different player last night, because he wasn't having to do it by himself. And Bruno benefitted from having someone in midfield on his wavelength.
Juan Mata shows Man United what they've wasted in beautiful Old Trafford swansong (football365.com)
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The annoying thing is there recent performances more just show how wasted they were here - more Mata in his earlier years. Both of them are probably two of the best ‘footballers’ at the club and that’s a worrying state of affairs when they’re older and also leaving on frees.
Matic' lack of pace has been exposed over and over again over the years, as has Mata' lack of strength/physicality. Both players would've fared better elsewhere as the team really couldn't utilise their strengths well enough. I do find Mata a particular shame though, as I felt he's always looked great when he had players of a similar wavelength around him such as Herrera. Unfortunately we never saw it often enough.
Mata in my opinion more so then Matic. Matic's first season he was incredible but he was never able to replicate consistent form as he did that season and this was noticed when various people pointed out we haven't had a strong DM these last few seasons. Mata on the other hand I can see as being underused. His first 3 or 4 season here were really good. He lost a step after that but his vision and passing ability didn't erode. Shifting him to the wing I don't think was the best use of his talents considering his lack of pace and we could have certainly accommodated him in a role similar to Scholes towards the end of his career.
Pretty much.
I've always liked Mata's game. His first touch, one touch passes, pass and swivel into the defender makes me think none of the players at United have learnt anything from him. His stature might not be the best for the premier league but Pep and City prove every day that height is not a huge factor in creation and execution of a goal. We need intelligent and hard working players like Mata at United.
I feel like Matic had decent opportunities, he’s old though, and was somewhat declining a bit at Chelsea before we got him.
What I’m really disappointed about, and have been for a while, is that we never really played Mata in his 10 position, and kept playing him on the wing, even when LVG gave him some opportunities (and only manager that did really), he didn’t play him at 10..
What I’m really disappointed about, and have been for a while, is that we never really played Mata in his 10 position, and kept playing him on the wing, even when LVG gave him some opportunities (and only manager that did really), he didn’t play him at 10..
Matic isn't that old in terms of ages but his body and his game is of an old man
I couldn't believe how young he was when he joined us, you'd think he was in his late 20's but shocking how we wasted the career of a player who at the time was one of the best attacking midfielders in the league by trying to constantly shift him out wide. He was a joy to watch at Chelsea.
They actually used it for Bakayoko. So we've somehow ended up winning that one!
Completely agree with you overall though. These topics turn up every time Mata in particular pulls out his one good performance a season in a match of virtually zero consequence - guy's been here since 2014 and stopped being useful in 2017, but there are still people convinced he's underused.
Or that they are inconsitent and unreliable players who are easy to suss out in the long run but can have a short run of games where they look decent. What do you mean by "best footballers?" Neither would start week in week out at mid table teams
We tried him in the middle too and he was mostly wack so he has to take responsibility. Multiple managers could not get a tune from Jose, to Moyes, to LVG to Jose, to Ole to Rangnick but its not the player its just bad luck. If he had Pep he'd be world class yeah?
Let's see...we've persisted with the same under performing bunch and struggled for goals and at the same time churned out dull and uninspiring football, whilst we had a creative playmaker on the bench who we didn't try till last night...
I'd say that was underused, unless trying Mata would have been totally unproductive and not worth the upheaval.
I wonder what Bruno and CR would think of such a daft idea
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he's played damn near 283 matches. thats more than double his games at Valencia.Let's see...we've persisted with the same under performing bunch and struggled for goals and at the same time churned out dull and uninspiring football, whilst we had a creative playmaker on the bench..
I'd say that was underused, unless trying Mata would have been totally unproductive and not worth the upheaval.
I wonder what Bruno and CR would think such a daft idea
The problem with both is they come in to the team put on a good performance and we all rejoice and wonder why they haven’t been played more (especially in Mata’s case) then 3 games in we are all calling for them to be dropped.
Mata is the worst for this. Everyone always asks why isn’t he played as a 10, then he gets his chance plays well then fumbles it a game or two later. So inconsistent. I will say though, on form the two of them in the starting 11 make us a far slicker and better passing team.
Just watching Mata yesterday the movement and the amount of options he gave was superior to anyone else we have in midfield.
Mata is the worst for this. Everyone always asks why isn’t he played as a 10, then he gets his chance plays well then fumbles it a game or two later. So inconsistent. I will say though, on form the two of them in the starting 11 make us a far slicker and better passing team.
Just watching Mata yesterday the movement and the amount of options he gave was superior to anyone else we have in midfield.
What a strange response - that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Yes. That's exactly it.
I see you a couple of posts above saying you don't remember Mata ever being as consistently under par as Fernandes has been this season. Fernandes, having been well below par all season, still has 10 league goals and 6 assists. Mata has 4 goals and 8 assists since May 2018.
There's literally nothing more to be said here: Mata is the definition of "unproductive". The last time he was a serious first-team option (thankfully 3 seasons ago now), he was still behind Lingard, Pereira and James in the pecking order. Because they were all at worst equally useless with the ball, and infinitely better than him without it.
No doubt you'll come back and say Mata was our Player of the Month in September 2020 after ripping Luton to shreds, though. It's not really worth bothering with - if you still rate him and describe him as a creative playmaker, good for you. The evidence says otherwise.
Matic and Mata are not underused in my opinion. Both are slow and limited defensively, and they’ve been ready for replacement for three years.
The evidence agrees with me and plenty of others. Bizarre how some people go on about Mata having poor games when he hardly ever plays - it seems to bother them more than the poor games from most of the first eleven this season.
Manchester United manager Ralf Rangnick makes Juan Mata admission after Brentford performance - Manchester Evening News
Cristiano Ronaldo and Juan Mata get what they deserve from Manchester United fans vs Brentford - Samuel Luckhurst - Manchester Evening News
Rashford has the pace Mata always lacked but not the footballing brain. Few do at United.
In 70 minutes against Brentford, he confirmed he had been underused in his remaining years, reduced to a spotkick specialist in losing shootouts by Rangnick and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Ronaldo was in his element playing with fellow 30-something Mata
My evidence is statistics to demonstrate a so-called number ten's crippling lack of end product.
Yours is a couple of random articles with select phrases bolded. Like I said, more power to you if you think you're proving me wrong here!
I could have posted more than a couple. The majority of journalists - and supporters - are saying the same thing.
Your evidence is intermittent performances, many of which were ten minute cameos. Maybe you could highlight the actual games you're referring to and the amount of time Mata had on the pitch.
Having watched sheer dross dished up by over paid and under performing divas for pretty much all of the season, it's not rocket science to look at last night's game and see a difference and wonder - not know, wonder - if things would have been different if Mata had been used ahead of some of those who didn't earn their money but who somehow got less criticism than he did.
I'm sorry, who are these divas who've got less criticism than Juan Mata this season?! Literally all of them have been ripped apart by the entire world, while he's been a non-entity.
Must be living in an alternate dimension here
Must be living in an alternate dimension here
Yes sorry, you're right. There's been plenty of criticism, which is why I can't understand the whinging when something positive is actually done to change things. After maybe our best performance of the season last night, there are still people complainingI'm sorry, who are these divas who've got less criticism than Juan Mata this season?! Literally all of them have been ripped apart by the entire world, while he's been a non-entity.
Must be living in an alternate dimension here
The crime was that we signed Mata for, what at the time, was a huge fee, he was from a rival, one of their best players and a marquee signing and we rarely played him in his best position as a number 10 during his best years.
Matic when he played regularly he was always called “static Matic” and I never rated him that much but we did sign him once he was already a bit old.
Matic when he played regularly he was always called “static Matic” and I never rated him that much but we did sign him once he was already a bit old.
Mata is always going to look good in a few cherry picked fixtures. He's a good footballer but near on useless in a hectic away game or against a side that comes to OT with a proper plan. Brushed aside easily and gets lost in games. I think we could and should have found more of the right games for him, though. There's probably 8-10 games he could have played and provided something.
Matic has had 15 starts, I'd say that's pretty logical for him. He tends to fade away when given too many games.
Matic has had 15 starts, I'd say that's pretty logical for him. He tends to fade away when given too many games.
Yeah, if we had a system that suited them and quality #1 DM in front of Matic and Pogba was the #8 he should be, we'd have 10 Matic/Mata starts a year and 10-15 sub appearances (Matic when we're up, Mata when we're down or tied mostly, but also just to get another body to help control midfield in their respective very different ways).
No more than that.
I meant he TV cameras don't show. It's along time since I've seen him live but I never said he was brilliant, just not sure he deserves all the abuse he gets so much of the time. I'd like to see him with better players around him because I don't think he's any worse than, say, Nicky Butt or Darren Fletcher. he looked much better with Mata and with Matic having a pretty good game too. Of course he's not at the level of Rodri but then tell me a United midfielder who is at the moment...
Like clockwork.
Seriously short memories…mata should have been binned off years ago. Stealing a wage at United
build a team around him
build a team around him
Timely reminder of why you dont start 30+ year old Juan in Premier League away games.
At least, not if you want to win them.
At least, not if you want to win them.
You seem to be acting like he’s the only one stinking the place out. We have hardly had the ball in the past 15/20 mins and he is no where close to the worst player in a red shirt.
Matic is a one man midfield on the ball. The only player that can create anything by the looks of it.
The lads have been done for a combined 15 years between them
yet here we are supposedly serious about winning titles. Yeah right.
yet here we are supposedly serious about winning titles. Yeah right.
Not now but when he was signed and one of the leagues best players yesSeriously short memories…mata should have been binned off years ago. Stealing a wage at United
build a team around him
Matic hasn't been great but we have a much worse midfielder playing beside him, a player that the club believes he's indispensable.
Its classic RedCafe. It reminds me of the old line from the old "Scouse Boom & Bust" graph about how Liverpool got talked up during pre-season, due to "no actual football being played".
We clamour for players to play and then they do play and we're all collectively like..."oh....yeah....right....that's why they don't play then"
We clamour for players to play and then they do play and we're all collectively like..."oh....yeah....right....that's why they don't play then"
Even a comparatively bad game from matic, he’s far superior to Mctominay who offers literally nothing positive
It's silly to pinpoint individuals for sure, but having these two plus Ronaldo in the team and Bruno means that besides Elanga, you're not worried about runs in-behind. So Brighton can just squeeze and squeeze and squeeze for territory and pressure.