How many times have you repeated these sentences in front of a mirror till you fully memorized them ?
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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It is called self affirmations isn't it?
He is partly right though, I also think, that instant success is not the norm but more the exception. On the other hand, using that phrase hints a complaint about impatiency, which I feel is pretty much out of place right now because we are the third year of Oles tenure.
Lets pretend the unthinkable happens and we have to go for a new coach and we chose for example Potter then I am more than happy to give him another 2 years. All he needs to do is show some signs that it is worth giving him time and that he isn't out of place in a top club (something Moyes unfortunately failed at).
I agree with the Ole supporters, Ole showed very good things, but picking players and creating a good atmosphere are things the club should establish, even guarantee to some degree, no matter who the manager is. Ole seems to have been the right man at the right time to push the reset-button. He helped to re-level the playing field, now he should be evaluated just like any manager at a top club would. He earned himself the right to be compared with them
The good thing is, I have a strong feeling that the majority of fans agrees with that stance. Not knowing him as a person but I have a slight suspicion even he would agree with that.
*edited to make sure, I don't get misunderstood
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Cheers mate, lovely to hear!
No one is asking for "instant success". This is bollocks. This squad has been built in 2.5 already, and now it's time for it to start winning major trophies. Ridiculous to blame fans for daring to expect success from the manager in his 3rd full season at the club, 3rd !It is called self affirmations isn't it?
He is right though, I also think, that instant success is not the norm but more the exception. On the other hand, using that phrase hints a complaint about impatiency. And I think, that doesn't fit here. Lets pretend the unthinkable happens and we have to go for a new coach and we chose for example Potter then I am more than happy to give him 2 years. All he needs to do is show some signs that it is worth giving him time and that he isn't out of place in a top club (something Moyes unfortunately failed at).
I agree with the Ole supporters, Ole showed very good things, but picking players and creating a good atmosphere are things the club should establish, even guarantee to some degree, no matter who the manager is. Ole seems to have been the right man at the right time to push the reset-button. He helped to re-level the playing field, now he should be evaluated just like any manager at a top club would. He earned himself the right to be compared with them
The good thing is, I have a strong feeling that the majority of fans agrees with that stance. Not knowing him as a person but I have a slight suspicion even he would agree with that.
Ronaldo took a position alongside manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer when he was substituted in midweek. He also did similar against France when he went off injured.
https://www.sportbible.com/football...me-portugal-coach-in-euro-2016-final-20200629
Well standing next to somebody and being on the manager team certainly isn't the exact same thing but of course a player of Ronaldos stature is allowed everything and rightly so, the more useful input the better, it isn't like I wouldn't want to know what he thought about Tuesday. Anyway I only hope, that we don't mix roles, Ronaldo is supposed to be a player who follows the instructions of the manager, I don't really think it is a good idea to mix that. Especially because I feel Ronaldos standing could lead to internal struggles in case of different opinions. (Don't want to indicate that you would like that idea, it's just my 2 cents on that topic.
Or lets keep hiring ex players and win feck all..well because its the 'Utd way'. Would sooner have Citys or Chelseas success over the last 8 years and their ruthfullness to change when it not working. Fergie was a one off. That wont happen again in the modern era. Ole, for all he wants to be Fergie, wont ever get anywhere near.
That's the best thing about Ole. He's a club legend for you guys that it makes it possible for him to lower the standards of your fanbase.
Big clubs decline when the fanbase lower their standards. It's what happened to us at Arsenal because we keep lowering our standards over the years.
We're happy to be in the top 4 for years until suddenly we are out of it and it looks impossible to climb back in to top 4.
The 3rd season just started.
I think majority of fans expect progress with this team. Last season saw us come in 2nd place and in a cup final.
Progress would be to see this team mount a proper title challenge, and hopefully win a trophy.
No reason to start any talk of changing the manager 4 games in with 10 points on the board.
In some ways you are right. I think Ole would have been an ideal number two for a manager with more vision.
Philippe Clement took over Brugge in 2019, anyone who watched their game against PSG will know what a well coached team looks like.
??? They only played 12 mins with 10, and they played a 4th place team compared to a team of nobodies.
Are you being daft on purpose?
Let the excuses roll out for Pep. It makes for good reading. People will cling to their beliefs no matter what is presented to them. 1 shot against Southampton. Not even a red card to make excuses for. Wow! Imagine if that was United and Ole. It would be a shitshow on here.
Pep turns his players into robots. He is way to strict with his pattern of play with no plan b. Some of the football they play is nice. But most of it is boring. Possession for just possession sakes. I've always felt his team's bore the opposition to death then attack.
Just like people say not getting a midfielder was Ole's fault. Then isn't Pep not getting a striker his fault? I'm sure I'll hear a 1000 excuses.
People have their narrative written about Ole. Hence he gets a rough time. Pep has a narrative written about him. Hence he always has people giving out excuses.
Let them roll. It's good reading watching some never back down. Moving the goalposts. The but, but, but Pep. Hahaha
Pep turns his players into robots. He is way to strict with his pattern of play with no plan b. Some of the football they play is nice. But most of it is boring. Possession for just possession sakes. I've always felt his team's bore the opposition to death then attack.
Just like people say not getting a midfielder was Ole's fault. Then isn't Pep not getting a striker his fault? I'm sure I'll hear a 1000 excuses.
People have their narrative written about Ole. Hence he gets a rough time. Pep has a narrative written about him. Hence he always has people giving out excuses.
Let them roll. It's good reading watching some never back down. Moving the goalposts. The but, but, but Pep. Hahaha
He's chatting out of his arse. I saw the match, Brugges were the better side for the majority of the match and actually had more shots (15-6) at around the the 60th minute and had the better chances to win it.
Nice story except it doesn't tally with reality.
When Ole came in we were in a worse spot than even Arsenal were at the time. We hadn't had two seasons of successive top 4 finishes since Fergie left in 2013 and we were nearer to the relegation places in terms of points than we were to the top 2/4.
In other words, we were on the verge of doing an Arsenal after they hired Arteta. That didn't happen and a big part of that was Ole. He hasn't lowered our expectations, he's raised them along with the club as a whole. He deserves massive credit for it especially when about 65% of this forum lacked any foresight whatsoever of what he was doing 6 months into the job, and wanted him gone yesterday, let alone the mob on Twitter.
Is he going to be the man who brings us back? Who knows, but I'd back him to do it after what he did with a squad that really wasn't fit for purpose the past few years. And even if he doesn't he's got us in the perfect state for the next man to go into overdrive with this team and hopefully succeed.
He took over a squad that had finished second the year before. So either Jose truly was putting in one of his greatest managerial performances, or else the squad was actually pretty good. In any event, I'm not sure how Ole has raised our expectations since then, given that we haven't finished higher than second nor have we won any silverware (unlike under LVG and Jose.) I'd say a team featuring De Gea, Shaw (granted not the version we have now, but still pretty solid), Pogba, Herrera, Rashford, Martial, and Lukaku, bolstered by the addition of Maguire and AWB in Ole's first full season (minus Lukaku by that point, but that didn't seem to unduly bother Ole) was actually pretty solid, and not some mid-table standard, such as what we see with Arsenal now.
Ole certainly deserves credit for instantly disinfecting the toxic atmosphere Jose had created (just for the record: I would never have Jose back,) but I don't feel particularly confident in his ability to take us to the next level.
You'd sell our soul down the river for a piece of shiny stuff. I wanna stick to the dream
100%
Ronaldo is absolutely going to influence a lot at United. He didn't come here as a living-playing legend and GOAT to just sit on the side and keep his head down. Anybody thinking otherwise is misguided.
As for the main topic: if we don't fix our inconsistency problems, now that we have Ronaldo, Varan, and Sancho and don't get to being top contenders of winning everything - Ole has to be fired. I love Ole and always supported him but now he has the squad that leaves no space for any excuses. If he can't do it - he must be sacked, by January. End of story.
Have to wonder if the posters bashing Pep and defending Ole in the same breath are even serious.
It is crazy, the reality that Ole inners live in. They move the goal post so much that you think we are playing tetris. Ole, can not even be held in the same sentence of managers like pep, klopp, tuchel, Pochettino, Zidane, and other top manager as he hasn't won anything yet or even made significant accomplishments despite having one of it not the highest net spend and transfer budget in all of Europe. Heck even if he wins a major trophy, you have to look at the money spent and question whether it is his coaching ability that won that trophy or the influx of funds at his disposal.
Far more sane than the reality you exist in.
Not sure why people keep bring on Pochettino. Pochettino went to a champion league final and got consecutive top four finish with a team like spurs. Even with a team like Manchester United, Ole is struggling to accomplish the former and has lower the standards so much so that top four finish at United is considered a job saving objective. At psg, he has won the double and if it wasn't for tuchel bad start to the season, would have won the triple. He also knocked out some of the best teams out of Europe last season. Most manager would sell their souls to have such a career so far. I guess that is why he is managing one of the top club right now and is a hot prospect amongst other top club
So any trophy Poch didn’t win last season (the league) is Tuchel’s fault while he gets full credit for the double he won which consisted of the Coupe de France and the French equivalent of the Community Shield. And you think that’s enough to put him amongst the likes of Klopp, Pep, Tuchel or Zidane.
You live in a dreamworld.
I love Ronaldo standing on the touchline encouraging the team. Ole sits down too much. He has to stand up more if Ronaldo is doing it. I think managers should stand up and actively encourage the team for the full match.
Are you really serious?
You shouldnt mention Pep in thesame breath as Ole, dude has consistently won while playing dominant football.
You are taking the piss with this post.
Oh lord...I do not think I have ever heard a football fan...ever...say that Pep’s Barcelona, with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets, telepathically, routinely and majestically playing teams completely off the park for 90 minutes, and crediting their coach saying his training and philosophy expanded their very understanding of football ...was possession for possession sake? Their is being bias and then there is blind hate for city perhaps...but that’s just a bonkers statement for anyone with eyes! Fuk shots on target...why are these stats rolled out? You can have a beautiful, skilful build up and the ball gets headed an inch past the post. Doesn’t change that fact that as a fan, you saw a passage of excellent and exciting football. City battered Southampton and more often then not they will win those games as they did on their mad run last season. They play the odds. They play how they play creating chance after chance and if on an off day they don’t score and draw or lose, that’s the price paid for seeing that particular style of football every week. Any city fan who complains is a clown. We are far less consistent then city in terms of results, general performance levels and dominating/creating chances against lesser teams. So we might just focus on ourselves before throwing shit at other very fuking good football teams.
Your post has the feel of the cringeworthy rantings of a man who looks at some Instagram models pictures all day, knows he ain’t got a chance, so postS on her page that he actually doesn’t find skin tight leggings attractive!
You’ve got to love the “he’s lowered expectations” narrative when after every fecking draw - not even defeat - draw - Ole Out trends, this place becomes a fecking cess pit and the media go insane.
Haha, was going to say something like this myself.
It's quite the spectacle.
Fans defending their manager while taking the piss out of a rival manager. What a world we live in.
The difference is Pep wins trophies. If Ole had a trophy or two it wouldn't be such a big deal having a mare.
What dreams that? Winning feck all every season? Keep Ole on because he played for us and that's the Utd way? Fergie and Busby never played for Utd and had no connection prior and those were our best managers. Doc, Atkinson, VG and Mourinho won the littler trophies and guess what, they also had no connection.
He said as much didn't he?
Sums it up nicely. He's done a fantastic job being the first manager since SAF to steady the ship and move us forward. As you say, who knows long term if he's going to go that step further, but overall he's been a huge success.
So if De Gea would have saved a penalty in May, we wouldn't be having these threads you reckon?
Defending Ole about what? We're all being realistic here. The only ones living in Disney world are Ole inners. Would any of you be willing to ask yourself which big club would take Ole if he is out of the United job? I think we all know the answer to that. Now ask yourself the same thing about Pep. We also know the answer to that. The debate should be pretty much over with that question.
Pep has a massive football credit to his name for that Southampton performance not because of the massive amount of trophies he has won everywhere he has been, including City, but also because of the football he has played during said time. Ole has zero credit for the same reason - he has won absolutely nothing and the performances for 3 seasons now leave much, MUCH to be desired. And he doesn't have any excuse because he has spent as much as Guardiola and way more than Klopp. And it's not like Mourinho left him a piss poor squad, it finished second the season before Ole took over with higher points than Ole has even achieved during his time here. It's time to face the reality now and it's time to challenge.
All we ask is that he be judged this season on his performances. None of this "he needs more time". We don't have infinite time, these players will age, some of them will want out, etc and we'd need another rebuild. The time to challenge and show what Ole is made of is right now. He has a world class squad at his disposal. He's been here 3 years .There are no excuses. No "top 4 is fine" shit. This squad can get to top 4 with its eyes closed. Even fecking Moyes would probably do it. Challenge, not even win it but at least show that you're up there with the big boys. Show that there is "progress" when it comes to the performances on the pitch and the team doesn't look like a bunch of mindless monkeys kicking a ball. That is all.
If we want to compare Ole and Pochs performance last year, what metrics could we use? I think, the obvious "the table doesn't lie" thing doesn't really work because both finished on the same position. So lets have a look at the other available things:
| Position in the Table (points) | Number of wins | Number of losses | Goals scored | Goals conceded | xG | xGA | xGD per 90 |
| Lille (83) | PSG (26) | Lille (3) | PSG (86) | Lille (23) | Lyon (84.6) | Lille (26.7) | PSG (1.19) |
| PSG (82) | Lille (24) | Lyon (6) | Lyon (82) | PSG (28) | PSG (82.4) | Monaco (33.1) | Lyon (1.09) |
| Monaco (78) | Monaco (24) | PSG (8) | Monaco (76) | Rennes (40) | Monaco (66.9) | PSG (37.3) | Monaco (0.89) |
| Lyon (76) | Lyon (22) | Monaco (8) | Lille (64) | Monaco (42) | Lens (56) | Rennes (40) | Lille (0.61) |
| Marseille (60) | Marseille (16) | Marseille (10) | Montpellier (60) | Lyon (43) | Strasbourg (52.6) | Lyon (43.2) | Rennes (0.26) |
| Position in the Table (points) | Number of wins | Number of losses | Goals scored | Goals conceded | xG | xGA | xGD per 90 |
| City (86) | City (27) | United (6) | City (83) | City (32) | City (73.3) | City (31.4) | City (1.1) |
| United (74) | United (21) | City (6) | United (73) | Chelsea (36) | Pool (72.6) | Chelsea (32.8) | Chelsea (0.82) |
| Pool (69) | Liverpool (20) | Chelsea (9) | Pool (68) | Arsenal (39) | Chelsea (64) | Brighton (37.7) | Pool (0.72) |
| Chelsea (67) | Leicester (20) | Pool (9) | Tottenham (68) | Liverpool (42) | United (60) | United (42.2) | United (0.47) |
| Leicester (66) | Chelsea (20) | Westham (11) | Leicester (68) | United (44) | Leeds (57.5) | Arsenal (44.3) | Brighton (0.37) |
Adds up to
| PSG (3x 1. , 3x 2. , 2x 3.) | City (8x 1. (1x joint 1.) |
| Lille (4x 1. , 1x 2. , 0x 3. , 2x 4., 1x none) | United (1x 1. (joint), 3x 2., 0x 3. , 3x 4. , 1x 5.) |
| Chelsea (0x 1. , 3x 2. , 2x 3. , 1x 4. , 1x 5.) | |
| Pool (0x 1. , 1x 2. , 4x 3., 2x 4. , 0x 5.) |
Direct comparison of season
| Position in the Table (points) | Number of wins | Number of losses | Goals scored | Goals conceded | xG | xGA | xGD per 90 |
| PSG (82) | PSG (26) | United (6) | PSG (86) | PSG (28) | PSG (82.4) | PSG (37.3) | PSG (1.19) |
| United (74) | United (21) | PSG (8) | United (73) | United (44) | United (60) | United (42.2) | United (0.47) |
Obviously quality of opposition is a factor.
Obviously squad quality in comparison to competitors is a factor.
Obviously other competitions are a factor (PSG CL semifinals, winners of Coupe de France and Trophee de champions - United EL finalists, efl cup semifinals, FA Cup quarters).
Again, the table doesn't lie, PSG should win the League and Lille performed great over the season, credit where credit is due. United deserved the 2nd place and it is a strong achievement.
Performance wise I think, it is obvious that PSG showed how good of a team they are, even outperforming the Champions in 4 out of 8 stats plus achieving higher stats than United in 7 out of 8 stats (different to compare I know). It also shows, that Uniteds performances should be looked at as they hint, that competitors achieved quite good even though are seen to have problematic seasons (Pool injuries and handling of it, Chelsea new coach).
Using last season for anything to have a dig at Poch seems wildly wrong to me. I know, he has been one of the poster boys for the "Ole out" group for a while but it makes no sense to belittle his achievements just because of that.
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I think we would because the performances are what is criticised the most. And going to penalties after 120 minutes against Villareal would obviously count as "upgradable" I am sure you would agree. But a trophy would give him his supporters an easier route to defend him. The biggest critics will only stop once he wins the CL or the League - maybe not even then. The biggest supporters on the other hand seem to be ready to support him for the next 4 years. What I am talking about are the majority of posters here, the more moderate critics and supporters. And I think, a trophy would calm them down quite a bit.
I’ve written much about this topic before. It’s a myth and typical nonsense which is easy to believe in, especially if they haven’t played on the highest level.
But probably more fun with a crazy manager on the sideline
