We are an awfully coached team

[BlahRules]

I remember when Pep said his team was shit because the players he had was shit and needed better quality.

What's the chance of having better midfielders will improve us dramatically than playing McFred? I never seen two players that are horrible passers. Everytime I see either of them try to pass further 10 yards I know we lost the ball. They're not even consistent 5 yards passers.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I remember when Pep said his team was shit because the players he had was shit and needed better quality.

What's the chance of having better midfielders will improve us dramatically than playing McFred? I never seen two players that are horrible passers. Everytime I see either of them try to pass further 10 yards I know we lost the ball. They're not even consistent 5 yards passers.

Fred is easily a better passer than McTominay, but yeah neither are top tier in that regard.

 

[Leftback99]

I've long said he's put some good foundations in place, but has taken us as far as he can and it's time to take the next step to build on the progress he has made and appoint a manager who can take us to the next step. (Unsure who though)

It is time to thank Ole for what he has done, shake his hand and move to the next stage of the rebuild project.

If we are deemed to have made "progress" this season, we need to win the Europa league final.

He needs to be quicker to change things up if we are in a slump. Yes I know its the end of the season, and we have a final, but surely the incentive should be to be picked for that final? Not sleepwalking along. Its Ole's job to sort this.

The slumps of bad form go on too long, obviously we will get the odd draw/loss but we get too many in a row which can't keep happening if we want to win titles

I do believe the mentality of some players is still questionable.

Quite a few times it's down to individual moments.

We still can't keep the ball in big games, so spend a lot of them under pressure and also still can't break down low block teams. There's also still the weakness of either starting slowly, or crumbling at the end. These have long been our issues, why aren't they being addressed? We now seem to be scoring first then blundering away the lead. Yes Maguire is out but still. Got to be better.

Harsh, but would we be 2nd if everyone else hadn't been absolutely awful

So sack him and get some unknown manager who also won't be able to turn Fred and McTominay into a world beating midfield. Makes sense.

This amazing 'next stage of rebuild' manager doesn't exist.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

So sack him and get some unknown manager who also won't be able to turn Fred and McTominay into a world beating midfield. Makes sense.

This amazing 'next stage of rebuild' manager doesn't exist.

You think Ole is the best manager we can get?

 

[romufc]

You think Ole is the best manager we can get?

You think there is a manager out there that will guarantee us the league / CL in the next two years?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

You think there is a manager out there that will guarantee us the league / CL in the next two years?

Well if there is, they're already at other clubs, so it's kind of moot.

I don't think Ole has what it takes for us to win the league though. I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[romufc]

Well if there is, they're already at other clubs, so it's kind of moot.

I don't think Ole has what it takes for us to win the league though. I hope he proves me wrong.

Isn't that the problem? the best managers who you would say would be a very good chance to win the league is Pep and Klopp. They are far beyond any other manager.

So is there a point to change for the sake of it?

The big talk was Poch, he might not even win the French league and produced a really poor showing against City in the CL.

 

[Leftback99]

You think Ole is the best manager we can get?

I don't see a manager available to us that I think would do any better with these players. Look at some Caf favourites:
- Poch? Might not win the the league with PSG
- Ancelotti? Will probably finish 10th
- Rodgers? Blown top 4 again from a great position.

I don't know how people talk in such certainties on here about how great these managers are and what they'd do for us.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't see a manager available to us that I think would do any better with these players. Look at some Caf favourites:
- Poch? Might not win the the league with PSG
- Ancelotti? Will probably finish 10th
- Rodgers? Blown top 4 again from a great position.

I don't know how people talk in such certainties on here about how great these managers are and what they'd do for us.

I would agree regarding those 3.

And I agree that I'm not sure there's a manager available at the moment that would be an upgrade on Ole.

So we have to hope Ole is the one.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Isn't that the problem? the best managers who you would say would be a very good chance to win the league is Pep and Klopp. They are far beyond any other manager.

So is there a point to change for the sake of it?

The big talk was Poch, he might not even win the French league and produced a really poor showing against City in the CL.

I never suggested we should change.

We have to stick with Ole for next season. Re-evaluate at season's end.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Well if there is, they're already at other clubs, so it's kind of moot.

I don't think Ole has what it takes for us to win the league though. I hope he proves me wrong.

From 6th to 3rd to 2nd and somehow he's not good enough to win the league! Ha!

Clear signs of improvement year on year and yet people still want him gone.

If he wins the league I'll wait for the excuses as to why he won the league and he still isn't 'the right man'

Jesus wept.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

From 6th to 3rd to 2nd and somehow he's not good enough to win the league! Ha!

Clear signs of improvement year on year and yet people still want him gone.

If he wins the league I'll wait for the excuses as to why he won the league and he still isn't 'the right man'

Jesus wept.

2nd place would sound great if we weren't so far off 1st. I don't see much difference between this season and the 2017-2018 league season in terms of performances/results itself. We peak higher easily in performances, but arguably fall off more in performances too.

The atmosphere is definitely way better and I think our squad is better than it was then too. I would expect better results/performances to be honest. Don't think we're yet a team that's more than the sum of their parts.

There's been improvements, but it seems more marginal than anything substantial.

 

[romufc]

I never suggested we should change.

We have to stick with Ole for next season. Re-evaluate at season's end.

Fair enough. I think the lack of top quality managers has worked in Ole's favour.

I mean we were told its a 3 year plan, next year is the 3rd year, we need to see a PL/ CL now.

We have seen the squad develop, we are at a point where 3 signings would propel us further up. A RW, CDM, CB is necessary this summer for us to challenge for the league.

Although I am backing Ole right now, the transition is up now, its time to feel the pressure to win the league.

 

[UnitedSofa]

2nd place would sound great if we weren't so far off 1st. I don't see much difference between this season and the 2017-2018 league season in terms of performances/results itself. We peak higher easily in performances, but arguably fall off more in performances too.

The atmosphere is definitely way better and I think our squad is better than it was then too. I would expect better results/performances to be honest. Don't think we're yet a team that's more than the sum of their parts.

There's been improvements, but it seems more marginal than anything substantial.

So Far off 1st?

Currently we are 12 points a drift. Last season? 33 Points off 1st.

What more do you want? (Besides winning the league)

 

[Lynty]

What is him failing?

People define failing differently.

His contract only runs until summer 2022 and there no incentive for us to offer a new contract until we can judge performance next season. It's not like he's gonna be enticed elsewhere by us delaying.

The usual £80m(net) in the transfer window should be enough to mount a respectable title challenge or top 3 plus a long run in Champions League and FA Cup, dependent on circumstances.

If City go and get Kane and Messi, can we really be expected to mount a title challenge?
If the only first team player we get, is say Botman - can we really be expected to mount a title challenge?

I'd honestly wait until September to set expectations, and until January until I offer an extended deal.

 

[Bebestation]

What is him failing?

People define failing differently.

I guess that’s the problem. Some are okay with the most minimal of progress because progress is progress (I’m in this bracket) - whilst to some not achieving straight success is failure and is not good enough and should be replaced

Do you think we need to be more harsh and sack a manager that ends up at 2nd in the league?

I personally don’t care too much about the title next year. I’d rather see Ole sell players like Bailly, James, etc and buy the next bunch of better players like Sancho.

if he fails with progress then fair enough, let him go and say thank you for improving the squad over another season.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I feel like Solskjaer could just do with hiring his own "Carlos Queiroz"

Ole admits himself he delegates a lot of tasks, which is fine and probably the modern and future way of doing things. But his head coaches are Phelan, Carrick and McKenna

Carrick and McKenna offer no previous experience and Phelan, while experienced, probably isn't the sort of coach who will throw up a new style of playing and keeping United ahead of the curve.

Also they're all English with no experience of football in Europe.

 

[Beachryan]

Like all senior professionals, there are good things and bad things about Ole. He's clearly an excellent man-manager, and the players really fight for him. That feels undeniable at this stage. That's a huge asset. He clearly has a vision for the squad and has been working towards it, and most of his signings have been ok - or he's no worse than other managers in that regard. He obviously gets extra points for being an absolute legend and the fans love him.

But that doesn't excuse the set piece goals and repeated defensive mistakes. Maybe that's not his job at the club, but it is his responsiblity to pick someone who can do it.

If we win the Europa the season will feel like progress. If we don't, it still will, but I think the 'shine' will be taken off Ole a bit.

Regardless, he's obviously going to be the manager next season, so we should be discussing how he can grow and improve, rather than getting rid. The key for me is that defensive coaching. We're not very good at structural things, which are kind of personnel agnostic.

 

[Sting]

We had lost 2 games less than City until a week ago with the worst midfield and CB duo out of the top 10 teams while also being an awfully coached team (As per Caf).
Can somebody tell me which one of these claims isn’t true because I don’t think we can do as well as we have when our team has this many issues.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Isn't that the problem? the best managers who you would say would be a very good chance to win the league is Pep and Klopp. They are far beyond any other manager.

So is there a point to change for the sake of it?

The big talk was Poch, he might not even win the French league and produced a really poor showing against City in the CL.

The thing with pep, for me at least is he gets to buy a new defence or midfield every summer.
Or in January.
He's a great coach, there's no denying that, but he's not had to struggle has he.

 

[romufc]

The thing with pep, for me at least is he gets to buy a new defence or midfield every summer.
Or in January.
He's a great coach, there's no denying that, but he's not had to struggle has he.

That is my point, he came in and got rid of a whole host of players and requested x number of players, the club got the players for him.

Last season, he wanted a CB, the club didn't give him one and he didnt win the league, what did they do? they spend £100m on 2 CB's.

Ole wanted a forward since he came in, he got Bruno after 7 months and we improved.

He wanted a CB, RW, ST last summer and got Donny, Cavani. Still didnt get the RW

This summer, lets see.

No doubt that he has had money to spend but so did most of the managers in the league, not only Ole.

 

[big rons sovereign]

That is my point, he came in and got rid of a whole host of players and requested x number of players, the club got the players for him.

Last season, he wanted a CB, the club didn't give him one and he didnt win the league, what did they do? they spend £100m on 2 CB's.

Ole wanted a forward since he came in, he got Bruno after 7 months and we improved.

He wanted a CB, RW, ST last summer and got Donny, Cavani. Still didnt get the RW

This summer, lets see.

No doubt that he has had money to spend but so did most of the managers in the league, not only Ole.

I'll not be holding ma breath.
The parasites have got their cl money, I'd be surprised if there's anything other than a token gesture comes in.

 

[bosnian_red]

The biggest influence that better coaching will do to our squad would be set pieces in both ends (which is a pretty big impact tbf). I'd say it's overall not that bad, though the set pieces are horrendous.

 

[BFernandes]

I'd be fascinated to see how Marcelo Gallardo would do.

 

[BlahRules]

Fred is easily a better passer than McTominay, but yeah neither are top tier in that regard.

Honestly, both are poor to average when our squad players should be average to elite passers and first-team players should be elite passer but we have chuckle brothers playing at the heart of all the matches.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I just wish he would not play 2 defensive midfielders vs these bottom of the table teams. It kills me every time.....

 

[gerdm07]

i mean it’s okay to feel like Ole has taken us far as he can go - but shake his hands and tell him to feck off after achieving 2nd place and a Europa league final seems a bit weird.

Let’s wait until he fails rather than sacking him because he looks like a failure.

Exactly. I don't know any managers who would fire someone after having a good year. Crazy

 

[Foxbatt]

get better coaches and better midfield players and Ole can win.

 

[The Brown Bull]

It's such a shame. I loved Olé the player. Always gave his all for the team. Was a pretty good striker too but as a squad striker or super sub. Was decent on the right as well.
As a manager he just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Not for a club our size.
After Busby it took the club 15 years and 5 managers to get it right. History often repeats itself.

 

[dave1956]

I really do think we need to improve our coaching staff with a coach(s) who have experience in the present European coaching systems. Recruiting top players with " we have a team of world class coaches", is not one of our best selling points as I am sure that outside our training ground our present coaching staff are not well known.

 

[cyril C]

His contract only runs until summer 2022 and there no incentive for us to offer a new contract until we can judge performance next season. It's not like he's gonna be enticed elsewhere by us delaying.

The usual £80m(net) in the transfer window should be enough to mount a respectable title challenge or top 3 plus a long run in Champions League and FA Cup, dependent on circumstances.

If City go and get Kane and Messi, can we really be expected to mount a title challenge?
If the only first team player we get, is say Botman - can we really be expected to mount a title challenge?

I'd honestly wait until September to set expectations, and until January until I offer an extended deal.

Oh yes. If they get Messi, the team will slow down a lot, and nobody dare not passing the ball to Messi.

If Kane, City will have to change from Striker-less formation back to point man, on a man that has slowed down a bit, legs tired a bit, spending more time a bit in sick bay. If City gets Mbappe then I will be really fear, not an Aguero equivalent.

 

[Iowa Red]

I just wish he would not play 2 defensive midfielders vs these bottom of the table teams. It kills me every time.....

Except he doesn't play with 2 defensive midfielders. Neither Fred nor McT are defensive midfielders.

 

[Iowa Red]

It's such a shame. I loved Olé the player. Always gave his all for the team. Was a pretty good striker too but as a squad striker or super sub. Was decent on the right as well.
As a manager he just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Not for a club our size.
After Busby it took the club 15 years and 5 managers to get it right. History often repeats itself.

I'll let you name a manager that is cut out for our club.......a manager that is attainable.

 

[The Brown Bull]

I'll let you name a manager that is cut out for our club.......a manager that is attainable.

I am not in the game ie the football industry so I freely admit I can't name one. Which is not the same as there's none available and which doesn't alter the fact that Olé isn't the man. I

 

[simplyared]

Wouldn't say we are awfully coached. However there are certain areas where we are underachieving and there are questions to be asked re the use or non use of some of our players.
Some examples:
Fred shouldn't be holding a regular place in our midfield.
VDB should have had more game time. Still reckon there's a top player in there that should have been developed and adjusted by our coaching staff for the PL. They have failed with that so far.
Baiily has been given too little playing time. Bringing him in sporadically for the odd game does not work with that type of player. He needs a run of games under his belt.
Greenwoods development has not taken off as it should have done for a young player with so many skills. Phil Foden as a fair comparison has come a lot further under Pep.
We are obviously unable to "cash in" on our dominence in so many games. We dominate yet have nothing to show for it!. Many times we should be 3-upp at half time yet we concede a goal instead.
We have problems seeing off games when we have a comfortable lead.
The mentality of some of our players are questionable also: Shaw's recent decline in form which I put down to nonchalence shouldn't be happening.
Rashford's comittment in certain areas can be discussed.He doesn't look too disappointed when he loses the ball. Almost as if he couldn't be arsed. He needs to be a lot more "hungry" if he is to go up a level. Again down to our coaching staff!
Pogba with all the skills he has is looking like an "ordinary" player and needs a rocket up his arse.
Lindelöv's development has stagnated. We've seen glimpses of creativity coming out of defense but far too seldom. The potential is there but it's not being utilized!
Bruno, as good as he is, needs to stop his moaning and wingeing. Especially if he wants to become our captain. Nani was pretty bad at that but Bruno has surpassed him already. Maybe it's a Portuguese thing!
Finally I prefer managers who engage with their players from the touchline. In Ole we have basically zero of that commodity.
A lot left to be desired!

 

[UDontMessWith24]

So Far off 1st?

Currently we are 12 points a drift. Last season? 33 Points off 1st.

What more do you want? (Besides winning the league)

Invalid comparison you spun to strengthen your point. The team in first place last season had a much higher point total than the one currently in first place. If you’re going to draw a comparison involving the team in first place last season, the gap (assuming a win against Wolves for arguments sake) will have shrunk from 33 points to 24 points.

There has been progress in point totals which is encouraging, but proximity to first place compared between two seasons means nothing. In fact, neither a 33 point gap or a 13 point gap are indicative of a serious title challenge, and the point total last season has typically rarely been enough to even be in the top 4.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

That's ridiculous you can't move the goal posts like that!

So if Ole was to come within 1 point of winning the league this year you'd claim it wasn't as impressive because the team before won the league with 99 points?

Not even remotely related to anything I said but sure why not as long you’re enjoying yourself

 

[UnitedSofa]

Not even remotely related to anything I said but sure why not as long you’re enjoying yourself

Well I did delete it because I realised what you were saying & I was way off the mark & this was before you replied to me, was hoping you hadn’t seen it as I messed up

 

[Buchan]

Bump.

 

[Jacob]

Bump.

Ban pending.