We are an awfully coached team

[Rozay]

I'm judging the transfers 3, 4 or 5 years after the fact. I never said the transfers were terrible at the time (though I should be on record that I didn't like Fred, Bastian and Sanchez), they have not worked and that's not questioned. The difference is you think the transfers didn't work because of poor coaching. I'm saying that's hogwash. They were bad transfers because they were not good enough. On the other hand, City and Liverpool have had great transfers the past 6 or 7 years.

you said: "you will struggle to name any player who has improved or even simply not regressed from the player they were before we signed them"

Rashford, Fred, Greenwood, Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, AWB and Pogba (in some ways) have all improved under Ole. Surely you won't dispute that? Fred, though, seems to have hit his low ceiling.

The fact that you are judging them after the fact is the flaw in your argument. If you judge them at the time of signing, then we can look at the respective progress of those players since there.

Simply put, I am confident that we would not have won the league if only we had Liverpool’s squad. And of the players you mentioned as improved, you seem to again be shifting the goalposts to include signings made outside of the time period you initially stated, and are also including academy players, who unsurprisingly are better now than when they were 17!

 

[el3mel]

Those sides get who they want. Ole gets fecked around and is given VDB. Not listening to Ole last summer was criminal quite frankly.
Just look at our side, its Joses players plus Maguire, AWB, Bruno and Cavani. Who are our most important players? Those plus Shaw. Hell Ole is bringing through Mason who is fast becoming our most important striker. He had Haaland in the bag before the club went cold on him. The one thing we cant blame Ole for is bringing in inferior players or not getting the best out of players that he wants us to sign. We just need to sign more of them. Our first choice front 3 didnt cost us a penny for Christs sake and thats where the expensive players should be playing yet no Sancho. Thats horrendous

The majority were happy with VDB signing and even his first contribution against Palace despite the loss was pretty positive.

 

[Foxbatt]

The truth is the Ole Out brigade will never be even slightly content with Ole managing us, he has to go unbeaten for 20 games in a row to get slight praise, he only needs to lose or draw a couple of games to deserve the sack.

I don't think anyone is saying that he should be sacked now. They are saying that he needs to win the PL or CL next season. Furthermore it's going to be more tougher than this season because the competition would be tougher.

 

[Halftrack]

Solskjaer will not get another Premier League gig when the inevitable happens here (or at least he’ll count himself extremely fortunate to do so if he does) yet we have sycophants here who ridicule and gaslight posters in their echo-chamber threads for calling out the distinct ‘averageness’ of our coaching and our playing style and try to claim Solskjaer is doing as good a job as anyone in the world could possibly do.

He clearly will, though? I mean, it's not like he's been an unmitigated disaster, is it? He's clearly a capable manager, the question is if he's good enough to take a team all the way. Fortunately for him, there are a boatload of teams that know they'll never go all the way, and will be content with a capable manager that can have them placing comfortably mid-table season after season.

As for the second bolded bit: Get the feck over yourself. It goes both ways, and it isn't that long ago that anyone who was backing Ole was ridiculed and gaslighted for daring to think he wasn't the worst manager in the league and a complete fraud.

 

[Rajma]

It’s amazing how we after 3 years of Ole we still play every game like they all have just met together, so disjointed.

 

[Juanuzaj]

We're in a very weird spot now with Ole. He's obviously not good enough to win us the PL or the CL, but he's done a lot of good things at the club- a constant upward trajectory, decent signings, seemingly has the backing of the players, and could win us a Europa League final- our first trophy in years. But ultimately, let's be honest, we play pretty awful football and rely a lot on magical moments from our world class talents, rather than carve out chance after chance due to a consistent and structured pattern of play. Our CFs, whoever it is, struggle to find themselves in goalscoring positions often. We are too reliant on Bruno having a great game or a great moment. Our defense, with or without Maguire, is often a complete mess. We are prone to absolute collective meltdowns in matches - Spurs, Liverpool, Leipzig, Istanbul, Everton come to mind.

Next season, City are going to even better with a new striker. Liverpool are probably gonna make top 4 and be back with VVD and on an upwards trajectory again. Chelsea are definitely going to compete for the title. We will probably be middling around the top 4- depending on vibes, we might be near the top for a bit but ultimately will fail to win matches we should be winning because of the aforementioned issues which have not been solved and seemingly won't be.

We can't sack Ole now - after all, we've finished 2nd and are in a final. The only way we sack him is if we don't get top 4 next season (I'm fairly sure top 4 and getting out of the CL group stages will be enough for him to keep his job). The cold, ruthless, ambitious decision would be to sack him now, thank him for the progress he's made at the club, and get in a real manager with actual pedigree who can take this team to the next level (ala Tuchel) because that's what we desperately need. If the club could recognize this, and have the balls to act on it, we could mount a real title challenge next season, but obviously this will never happen- he's a club legend, the fans will hate the board for doing this, it will cause an uproar the likes of which the world has never seen, and there'll be too much pressure on the new manager right from the off. So essentially, what we're stuck with is yet another average season next year, or a terrible one which gets Ole sacked and gets us a tactical genius manager, but only if we fall out of top 4 - which means unhappy players, low morale, and potentially yet another rebuild.

If only football worked like real businesses do where you consistenly try to hire the best person for the job and attempt to keep improving your performances, building on previous good work. Don't need to resort to complete catastrophe to enforce a change. Alas, it'll never happen and I completely understand why, but it's just really frustrating.

 

[Foxbatt]

Yes we could sack him at the end of the season but for what? He may very well win a trophy. But I agree that our coaching is not good enough.
But Now where is the manager you look to replace him? They have all gone to other clubs. Poch to PSG. Rose to Dortmund. Naggelsman to Bayern.

 

[Wilt]

Yes we could sack him at the end of the season but for what? He may very well win a trophy. But I agree that our coaching is not good enough.
But Now where is the manager you look to replace him? They have all gone to other clubs. Poch to PSG. Rose to Dortmund. Naggelsman to Bayern.

Ole is bomb proof ....he’s safe as long as the Glazers are in charge.

 

[Mickson]

He's not a great coach and I have said it all along. He has done some things good. My short summarize: He's not a tactical genius but he is a good manager, his players enjoy his management and he takes care of his players. But tactically, I sincerely think he is not in the top half of this league even.

 

[Foxbatt]

He's not a great coach and I have said it all along. He has done some things good. My short summarize: He's not a tactical genius but he is a good manager, his players enjoy his management and he takes care of his players. But tactically, I sincerely think he is not in the top half of this league even.

He needs to get better coaches. His management apart from the coaching side seems to be very good.

 

[Mainoldo]

He needs to get better coaches. His management apart from the coaching side seems to be very good.

We are still a bunch of bottlers. I wouldn’t big up his management too much.

 

[Buchan]

“Today was a dead rubber, just like the last two home games.”

“We’ve had ten games in five days.”

“It’s all about resting the players now before the final.”

“We miss Maguire badly. Judge when we have a full team available. ”

“We were never going to win the league anyway.”

“Look at the great progress we are making. We are on course to gain 0.13 PPG more than last season.”

“We are not getting time between games to practice systems and formations, next year we are definitely going to boss our rivals tactically.”

———————————————————————————————-

Have we missed any from today? Surely some of the above pearls were dished out once again after another dour performance.

 

[Foxbatt]

We are still a bunch of bottlers. I wouldn’t big up his management too much.

I don't think it's bottling. I think he is not strong enough sometimes. When players regularly play for themselves it's the manager who needs to sort it out. I think his two weakness are this and his choice of his coaches. His man management seems to be good. But next season we will know if he is going to compete or not?
When was the last time we scored from a corner? I don't think he is very innovative either. Why does Bruno take all free kicks when we also have Pogba? Occasionally Fred should take it too.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't think it's bottling. I think he is not strong enough sometimes. When players regularly play for themselves it's the manager who needs to sort it out. I think his two weakness are this and his choice of his coaches. His man management seems to be good. But next season we will know if he is going to compete or not?
When was the last time we scored from a corner? I don't think he is very innovative either. Why does Bruno take all free kicks when we also have Pogba? Occasionally Fred should take it too.

I think that aspect like corners etc. The players manage themselves. Nothing wrong with that. Only occasionally you get the set piece dictators like LVG. But I agree the coaching is terrible and you can see that with the set pieces we concede. But who hires a manager that just manages these days. Can you name a good one?

 

[Halftrack]

He's not a great coach and I have said it all along. He has done some things good. My short summarize: He's not a tactical genius but he is a good manager, his players enjoy his management and he takes care of his players. But tactically, I sincerely think he is not in the top half of this league even.

That why you essentially disappear when were doing well, only to rear your head when we're not getting results?

 

[Bwuk]

Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.

 

[James Peril]

My stance is unchanged and I’ve buggered out of the discussion (for the main part) for months. It’s a bit like watching the comments section between Samsung and Apple-fans after a new release, what’s the point when delusion/pride on both sides stand in the way of a proper discussion. Now obviously I want Ole Solskjær gone even if we win the EL, like the next man really wants him to stay even if we lose, but we’re at an interesting point regardless:

Who would we bring in to replace him? I really don’t see any stand-out characters in the market anymore. Allegri? Hell no, he’s not a Man Utd-manager and he’s not going to be happy switching Piemonte with Manchester. Tuchel could have been that guy, he’s now making his mark elsewhere. Nagelsmann? Gone, we were too late.

What Solskjær doesn’t have is the tactical arsenal.. and often more importantly, charisma. The ability to win a room by entering it, or to create some fear if needed. Which manager is available and with these two traits? Beats me, honestly I have no idea.

 

[bond19821982]

I don't need him sacked but I really want him to hire a top assistant. There is nothing wrong with it. We still look like 11 strangers playing for the first time waiting for one of those individual moments just like we had from Bruno and Cavani today.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

My stance is unchanged and I’ve buggered out of the discussion (for the main part) for months. It’s a bit like watching the comments section between Samsung and Apple-fans after a new release, what’s the point when delusion/pride on both sides stand in the way of a proper discussion. Now obviously I want Ole Solskjær gone even if we win the EL, like the next man really wants him to stay even if we lose, but we’re at an interesting point regardless:

Who would we bring in to replace him? I really don’t see any stand-out characters in the market anymore. Allegri? Hell no, he’s not a Man Utd-manager and he’s not going to be happy switching Piemonte with Manchester. Tuchel could have been that guy, he’s now making his mark elsewhere. Nagelsmann? Gone, we were too late.

What Solskjær doesn’t have is the tactical arsenal.. and often more importantly, charisma. The ability to win a room by entering it, or to create some fear if needed. Which manager is available and with these two traits? Beats me, honestly I have no idea.

Don't think there's anyone. We placed all our bets on Ole now.

If he doesn't deliver next season, I don't even know who would replace him.

I'm not a fan of Allegri, but he would be an upgrade on Ole clearly.

 

[Jaxa]

Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.

Just about to post this, we've had some fantastic results under Ole let's not diminish that, but I can't even think of a game where we just dominated a team through a brilliant game plan, i am sure there's a few but our big results from memory and i might be wrong here we usually have been sh*te for 60% of it and either had a burst of quick fire goals or a great last minute goal,

Two that spring to mind is our 5-0 Leipzig match where I think we just went mental in the last 15 minutes and also the last minute goal against PSG from Rashford,

He's doing something right clearly but this has been a very strange season, I think next season is going to be a very intense high quality season across the league so really interested to see happens

 

[Sweet Square]

This thread getting bumped whenever United let in a goal or fail to win a meaningless match is a really clear sign no one on here has any idea about coaching.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

This thread getting bumped whenever United let in a goal or fail to win a meaningless match is a really clear sign no one on here has any idea about coaching.

As opposed to bumping it when we win 6-2? What kind of logic is this?

Put your hand on your heart and tell us you are convinced with Ole's coaching and that it looks good enough to win PL/CL?

 

[2 man midfield]

Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.

Which is absolutely fine - if you can hire great coaches to do that side of it for you. I’d be more excited to see us appoint a couple of new coaches to work on set pieces, defending etc than I would to see new players.

 

[Rightnr]

Ole isn’t a great coach, nor is he a great tactician.

His strengths lie in man management. Too often we get outplayed by utter dross sides like Fulham.

This is what's so frustrating to me. I think it's actually harder to find a good motivator than a good coach nowadays. They're basically growing on trees in Germany.

Why can't we just hire some non-insider to actually do this job? Why does it always have to be some friend or some ex-player? Or at least if it is, why can't they be capable, like at Bayern?

It honestly reeks of Glaziritis where the yes-men and quiet types are promoted ahead of the people who 'complain' or are inconvenient.

 

[Abraxas]

Next season is going to be a big one. The manager has done a reasonable to good job in my opinion, when taken in its entirety. From the initial cleanup of a few bad eggs, to fostering a decent togetherness, the cup opportunities we have had and unfortunately squandered (we did at least get to good positions with another golden opportunity to come), to finishing a potential second this year.

It looks like a reasonable job done, I don't see how anybody could say he has done a poor job, at least with a straight face. There is some divergence between those that think it's just okay, and those that think he's done very well, that should be admitted.

However, next season does feel very, very important to how the view on him continues to take shape. There are always going to be a section of fans that demand instant results, and those that are extremely patient or even romantic. But I think next season is the one where those in the middle will start to form stronger views. Mainly because he's had some time, he's had some transfer windows, we've reached a point where we need to threaten towards the end of seasons for major honours - it is the logical step. The challenge will be facing a City that are certain to be similarly strong, and a shocked Chelsea and Liverpool, the smart money has to be on them being stronger. It's a very big transfer window and season to come.

 

[Ted1985]

This thread is like a circus, too many clowns in here. We are second, its pretty damn good considering the one above us is supported by a god damn sheik. You lot not supporting Ole can cry me a river til your eyes dries out.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Which is absolutely fine - if you can hire great coaches to do that side of it for you. I’d be more excited to see us appoint a couple of new coaches to work on set pieces, defending etc than I would to see new players.

You'd have to let go of the entire coaching staff bar Ole.

I don't think that's feasible or realistic.

 

[Foxbatt]

I think that aspect like corners etc. The players manage themselves. Nothing wrong with that. Only occasionally you get the set piece dictators like LVG. But I agree the coaching is terrible and you can see that with the set pieces we concede. But who hires a manager that just manages these days. Can you name a good one?

You look at any top coach and they will do the set piece. You look at Rinus Michels, Arigo Sachi, Pep, Klopp, SAF, they all do it. Which variation to take is left up to the players. If it is a near post flick, then it is practiced on the training field. Everything is practiced. You simply cannot go on the pitch and pray and hope.
My biggest worry is that with City, Chelsea and Liverpool strengthening, the competition next year is going to be much stronger and we would not win the PL or the CL. But also any manager that is worthwhile is now being signed by other clubs.

 

[Roane]

I think the issue with the team is inexperience on Oles part. Although to be fair the constant pressure hasn't helped.

What I mean is that the players who have been the consistent 11 have been over used somewhat and the others haven't been getting enough minutes to keep up with play, rusty if you will.

An example is the Maguire injury. People have slated likes of Bailly and Tuanzebe (although less so). However these players haven't seen much game time (injury to Bailly but tbf he has had good games then not been picked). Then an injury happens and they are thrust in without minutes and added pressure. Any mistake is them magnified and they are slated.

Likes of Mata have not been seen for ages then put in a game and expected to perform, yet everyone knows game time is vital for players form.

Ole needs to "tinker" more next season and ensure the back up type players get minutes so of the inevitable injury cones up they are in some sort of form or up to speed so to speak.

Listening to certain ex footballers the themes seems to be that you don't need to miss whole games to be rested. 60 minutes and subbed can be sufficient in most cases. Now I know we have sometimes needed to keep going with our best players to get a result. But we have also had games we could have rested or subbed players and didn't.

Management isn't just about having a good 11, especially with us being in all comps. It's about utilising the players, even the not so good ones sometimes to give the hood ones a rest and the others minutes.

I remember towards the end of SAFs era we used to get bexxed as he made so many changes. But then at the end of the season we always finished strong. Coincidence? Not for me. Currently and last season we ended poorly and I think it's down to fatigue somewhat. Bought on by playing likes of injured rashy or Bruno consistently. The back how getting a game here and there sees poor performances and for me some of that is down to no game time.

 

[Mickson]

That why you essentially disappear when were doing well, only to rear your head when we're not getting results?

We are seldom doing well. Can think of a maximum of 5-6 games where we have played very well. The rest is just grinding out the result and people think that is sustainable and that we will win the league soon. Always an excuse as well. "Nothing to play for", "tired", "unlucky". The reality will hit hard on some people next season I imagine.

 

[Jeppers7]

We seem extremely streaky and I’m wondering if our team form is more connected to good/bad spells of form from our best players than anything else.

 

[United Hobbit]

I've long said he's put some good foundations in place, but has taken us as far as he can and it's time to take the next step to build on the progress he has made and appoint a manager who can take us to the next step. (Unsure who though)

It is time to thank Ole for what he has done, shake his hand and move to the next stage of the rebuild project.

If we are deemed to have made "progress" this season, we need to win the Europa league final.

He needs to be quicker to change things up if we are in a slump. Yes I know its the end of the season, and we have a final, but surely the incentive should be to be picked for that final? Not sleepwalking along. Its Ole's job to sort this.

The slumps of bad form go on too long, obviously we will get the odd draw/loss but we get too many in a row which can't keep happening if we want to win titles

I do believe the mentality of some players is still questionable.

Quite a few times it's down to individual moments.

We still can't keep the ball in big games, so spend a lot of them under pressure and also still can't break down low block teams. There's also still the weakness of either starting slowly, or crumbling at the end. These have long been our issues, why aren't they being addressed? We now seem to be scoring first then blundering away the lead. Yes Maguire is out but still. Got to be better.

Harsh, but would we be 2nd if everyone else hadn't been absolutely awful

 

[passing-wind]

I think Ole is a average coach but what needs to be done is differentiate coaching and the identity of good progressive football. For example I would consider Simeone to be a good coach but his football is negative due to his philosophy. However that doesn't necessarily take away from his credentials tactically.

Ole for me falls within a similar category, not in comparison to Diego as he's less effective but generally. I think it's all but guaranteed the philosophy to this United team is not going to compete with the likes of a Chelsea, City or Liverpool. The development is that the club sign a high quality of players and Ole musters up togetherness so that the team bonds and has good chemistry. Team will not improve due to the limited / non-existent philosophy.

 

[pocco]

Yes we could sack him at the end of the season but for what? He may very well win a trophy. But I agree that our coaching is not good enough.
But Now where is the manager you look to replace him? They have all gone to other clubs. Poch to PSG. Rose to Dortmund. Naggelsman to Bayern.

I think the only potential option would be to convince Poch to come here. I reckon it is doable, but it wouldn't surprise me if we got beat to that too. Perhaps Real Madrid or, less likely, Barcelona, will need a manager in the summer and take that option.

 

[Anustart89]

This thread getting bumped whenever United let in a goal or fail to win a meaningless match is a really clear sign no one on here has any idea about coaching.

When does it become a coaching issue though? I mean, it's not the first time that a goal is conceded because AWB either a) stays below the rest of the defence to play a player onside, or b) loses his man at the back post from a cross. Here, we had a double whammy of them both.

Are we just to accept that this is a flaw that the coaching staff, two years into his time with United, will just have to live with? I mean, at what point do we hold the coaching team accountable for players' individual flaws that are obvious for everyone at home to see? Is it after the player's spent one year at the club, two years, five years or do we just accept that the player we buy is the player we get and that's it? No wonder we have to go for the most expensive options in every position if we can't trust the management to iron out flaws in the players that we do buy.

 

[BFernandes]

Then there's the issue with defending set-pieces.

No-one will ever convince me that a mixed tactical set up of both zonal and man marking at corners is doing us any favours.

 

[Lynty]

We've played some good football this season.

I mean, our best midfield is McFred and our front 3 cost us nothing. What are you people expecting?

 

[Bebestation]

When does it become a coaching issue though? I mean, it's not the first time that a goal is conceded because AWB either a) stays below the rest of the defence to play a player onside, or b) loses his man at the back post from a cross. Here, we had a double whammy of them both.

Are we just to accept that this is a flaw that the coaching staff, two years into his time with United, will just have to live with? I mean, at what point do we hold the coaching team accountable for players' individual flaws that are obvious for everyone at home to see? Is it after the player's spent one year at the club, two years, five years or do we just accept that the player we buy is the player we get and that's it? No wonder we have to go for the most expensive options in every position if we can't trust the management to iron out flaws in the players that we do buy.

well you could argue the opposite.

The biggest complaint that people had over Wan Bissaka is his attacking game - so for him to improve that within a couple of months as a 23 year old is surely a sign of coaching rather than a lack of it isn’t it?

Now his attacking game is slowly starting to get in to a shape, maybe Wan Bissaka will be able to focus on his positioning a bit better next year. Hopefully in 2 or 3 years time he can reach a prime of a well rounded player.

Same thing happened with Shaw. His attacking game has improved due to coaching andhas looked like a more well rounded player - except 2 poor performances in the last 2 games.

 

[Bebestation]

I've long said he's put some good foundations in place, but has taken us as far as he can and it's time to take the next step to build on the progress he has made and appoint a manager who can take us to the next step. (Unsure who though)

It is time to thank Ole for what he has done, shake his hand and move to the next stage of the rebuild project.

If we are deemed to have made "progress" this season, we need to win the Europa league final.

He needs to be quicker to change things up if we are in a slump. Yes I know its the end of the season, and we have a final, but surely the incentive should be to be picked for that final? Not sleepwalking along. Its Ole's job to sort this.

The slumps of bad form go on too long, obviously we will get the odd draw/loss but we get too many in a row which can't keep happening if we want to win titles

I do believe the mentality of some players is still questionable.

Quite a few times it's down to individual moments.

We still can't keep the ball in big games, so spend a lot of them under pressure and also still can't break down low block teams. There's also still the weakness of either starting slowly, or crumbling at the end. These have long been our issues, why aren't they being addressed? We now seem to be scoring first then blundering away the lead. Yes Maguire is out but still. Got to be better.

Harsh, but would we be 2nd if everyone else hadn't been absolutely awful

i mean it’s okay to feel like Ole has taken us far as he can go - but shake his hands and tell him to feck off after achieving 2nd place and a Europa league final seems a bit weird.

Let’s wait until he fails rather than sacking him because he looks like a failure.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

i mean it’s okay to feel like Ole has taken us far as he can go - but shake his hands and tell him to feck off after achieving 2nd place and a Europa league final seems a bit weird.

Let’s wait until he fails rather than sacking him because he looks like a failure.

What is him failing?

People define failing differently.