We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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I saw a video yesterday of Sterling being taught by Pep how to put his back to a defender, play a first time pass back to a midfielder, fake a movement, then run in behind to score, once the defender presses the midfielder. Lo and behold, he goes onto score the exact same way in a match.
That's what I want to see from this squad. Drilled patterns and movements. We see Martial and Rashford who do not run in behind to stretch back fours, want too many touches and their decision making is frenetic. If you give them to Pep, I doubt that would be the case.
This is my problem. I actually think Ole is a good manager in the traditional sense. But he needs a world class first team coach to kick us onto the next level. Otherwise, this is our limit.
That's what I want to see from this squad. Drilled patterns and movements. We see Martial and Rashford who do not run in behind to stretch back fours, want too many touches and their decision making is frenetic. If you give them to Pep, I doubt that would be the case.
This is my problem. I actually think Ole is a good manager in the traditional sense. But he needs a world class first team coach to kick us onto the next level. Otherwise, this is our limit.
I teach kids in my under tens this, it’s hardly rocket science and a player who plays in the premier league are going to know this movement. Got the video link to see if it is more than that?
can’t actually belive that’s being used to make a point about drilled patterns to be honest
We're getting better players introduced to the team, but as a side, we're not convincingly improving when it comes to our overall play. Just how many years have we seen very underwhelming performances like yesterday? We just struggle to do the same things for so long at this point.
Pep can improve any player it's why he's spent almost £200M on full backs.
Players is one thing, but setting up the team to consistently play with two holding midfielders against the likes of West Brom and Shef Utd is not going to win league titles. I have a feeling he is doing it to protect the CB's from being exposed, but then that begs the question why didnt we sign a CB, both are crap
The problem is the two starting CBs by default are gonna make you defend deeper due to a lack of certain attributes which then means we resort to playing on the counter attack. It's quite simply the only plausible strategy right now unless he wants to lose his job quickly by playing a more expansive game which would expose the CBs further. I honestly don't know if he's the correct man long term but I want to see him sign a dominant CB who can defend resolutely both in a structured setup and also in isolation high up the pitch. I also want to see him sign players in both midfield and attack who can pick a lock because in this current side we only have two lock pickers in Fernandes and Pogba which doesn't compare well to Man City.
And when he adds those players, I will then expect a more high risk approach, because Solskjaer has shown in the past that his favoured play style is to play a brand of football that is very high risk. But to play like that in the pressure cooker that is the Man Utd managers job, needs him to create a defensive balance that the current starting CB pairing can't give him. And neither are Fred and McTominay good enough to be lock pickers at the required level in midfield imo.
Currently he's doing fine and we're on course to finish in the top 4. At the start of the season most predicted Liverpool and City would finish top 2 with big spending Chelsea not far behind. It was also predicted Spurs with tactical genius Mourinho, would finish above us. I think he's doing fine at the moment and i'm gonna judge his work next season.
Top logic there. Well done on completely missing the point.
Probably due to being too preoccupied stamping your feet.
Enjoy your dummy of the day award.
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Same goes for klopp, don’t you know he made those average Liverpool players league winners, yet there was only Henderson left in there and every other position he bought new for.
Yet you think we should employ Eddie Howe, a guy who quit after being relegated last season....
As I said, my head hurts.
Do you not think Klopp had some of those players playing a level or two above their usual standard?
Aside from sterling, kdb and foden. He's pretty much replaced the entire squad hasn't he?
Klopp replaced basically his entire starting eleven. Whether you think he bought junk and improved them is another matter
Trent was one of their own, Robertson was an snip. They were at the centre of what they did last season with assists. They have spent big on VVD, the knew they needed another goalkeeper so went and got one. They got Fabinho who I wish we had got. They got the right players to fit what he wanted. For all Pep has spent, they buy a certain type of player to fit his plans. They don't sign players with no plan in place. It might not always work, but the is planning there. We just go for the most hyped players if they are what are needed or not.
Yet you think we should employ Eddie Howe, a guy who quit after being relegated last season....
As I said, my head hurts.
Eddie Howe? Ohhh now I understand the clamour to sack OleI hate how people try to pretend there isn't a clear difference between seeing how Liverpool and City are coached compared to us just seems like people want to be pedantic to save Ole
Its often trotted out how klopp turned water into wine and makes shit players league winners when it’s simply not true, he replaced his entire team. If he really could turn water into wine and average players into league winners then why did he have to buy new for every position was my point.
We look hopeless and helpless, of course we are not coached properly. As it appears Ole is more of a manager, then that is down to his coaches.
I think the buck stops with bollock head and his pal there.
Both Liverpool and city have football people doing their negotiating.
We have an investment banker and his mate from uni.
I mean, they did their best to not get Bruno last year, we needed a right winger in the summer and they brought us Cavani on a free, a midfielder who doesn't fit anywhere nor did we need and two youth teamers. One of which is out on loan.
That is true to an extent, but to be honest. I would quite happily replace most of our team, Ole's signing as well. As I have said if Ole is not so hands on, then we seriously need to look at the coaching staff. If they really are not up to it then that could be a big problem. They are very inexperienced apart from Phelan. He has to put players in their position of strength and not keep putting square pegs in round holes to give moral support to under performing players.
I agree we also need to replace players, let’s give the club and manger chance to address this, you can’t change 11 in a year. I’m not comparing coaching abilities but it also took klopp a few years to replace the 11.
I totally agree with you re coaching staff, there’s too much inexperience there and would love to unearth a new mulensteen to go alongside Ole, that’s my preferred way forward
I actually think he needs to bring coaches in who are not mates, who have modern ideas for today's football, not another friend who is stuck in the past. Even Sir Alex used to change his assistant to keep things fresh.
Agree, someone not related to the club but coming in with fresh ideas. I suppose that was the idea behind McKenna
McKenna is a United fan I believe, so he might have been influenced by the past a bit. We are all inclined to want the good old days.
I don't understand why we have such an inexperienced coaching staff for this level. Look, we are supposed to be one of, if not the biggest club in the world. Yet we cling on to nostalgic sentiment. It's almost as if people who run the club want to be seen as more wholesome than other clubs by appointing from within. I love Carrick as a player and he seems a smart guy but you simply cannot put forth the argument that he's a better choice to coach the manchester united first team than someone else with 10-20 years experience coaching at the highest level.
Ole doesn't have this experience coaching and the people he delegates training to have even less. Mckenna was supposed to be some revolutionary youth coach but I've not seen any of that translate to the first team. So we Carrick and Mckenna doing the first team coaching? You can't tell me that they are the best people for this job. We have an entire coaching staff who are utterly devoid of experience at this level. It's pretty mad if you think about it and I don't think any other top team would allow this to happen.
Imagine you're a team striving to get to the top, as City were at one point. You go after Pep, you don't target Darius Vassell. They didn't bring in vincent kompany as assistant manager when he retired and they didn't fill their coaching staff with people with no experience at this level. They went for the best they could get. The same with Klopp etc. I just don't understand what we're thinking. I see the coaching that goes on with movement and patterns of play in the Liverpool team, and of course City. But I also see it in the Brighton and Leeds teams and others in the prem. I just feel like we're lacking such a vital component and that the players are told to "go out and express yourself" which is why we blow so hot and cold a lot of the time.
Ole doesn't have this experience coaching and the people he delegates training to have even less. Mckenna was supposed to be some revolutionary youth coach but I've not seen any of that translate to the first team. So we Carrick and Mckenna doing the first team coaching? You can't tell me that they are the best people for this job. We have an entire coaching staff who are utterly devoid of experience at this level. It's pretty mad if you think about it and I don't think any other top team would allow this to happen.
Imagine you're a team striving to get to the top, as City were at one point. You go after Pep, you don't target Darius Vassell. They didn't bring in vincent kompany as assistant manager when he retired and they didn't fill their coaching staff with people with no experience at this level. They went for the best they could get. The same with Klopp etc. I just don't understand what we're thinking. I see the coaching that goes on with movement and patterns of play in the Liverpool team, and of course City. But I also see it in the Brighton and Leeds teams and others in the prem. I just feel like we're lacking such a vital component and that the players are told to "go out and express yourself" which is why we blow so hot and cold a lot of the time.
And that is the problem. Football is not the same as it was 10 years ago. Teams are more technically able and more tactically sound (most are) now. Relying on individualism as a means to create chances is not going to yield results long term regardless of how good or happy our players are.
We shouldn't need a selection of lockpickers to create sustained and dominant attacks against lesser teams. Every single week there are teams with much worse players, infrastructure, and resources that are able to play with a clear strategy and system. I'm not convinced by the reasoning that Solskjaer needs to buy another expensive defender and needs better lockpickers in midfield over McTominay and Fred, it just feels like we might be glossing over more fundamental problems. Take out that insane finish from Bruno last night and I'm not sure we even get a point. It's concerning that West Brom were more creative and had much better chances than us. Maybe it is simply a personnel issue, it'd be much more convenient that's for sure.
That's just what Ole has not done!
Ironically that's exactly what most of those fans who want a change of manager are doing asking for any 'hyped' replacement out there. Which means more upheaval, a new man wanting different players (if we have money) and after one/two unsuccessful years the cries for change would start again.
In the 64 years of being a United fanatic we have had two outstanding managers they both needed time to stabilised club, encouraged a thriving youth system and gradually progress the team, all things Ole has started. How much he will achieve? I don't not know, unlike the Ole out oracles on here and Simon Jordan a man who took Crystal Palace into administration, but he will need time.
Think he will get a bit more time, but then he has to start winning and get that winning mentality instilled in the side. It is he can do that is the question. If he can't they will move him on. Sir Alex Joined us in November 86 then won his first trophy in the May of 1990. That is less than four years.
The fact that we have 2 seperate threads doubting that are defence has been fixed or if our attack is good enough tells you that we are poorly coached as a team unit, ole has well and truly been bailed out by Fernandes's constant individual moments of brilliance for the past year and pogba's minor purple patch this season.
I agree that based on points gathered and position in the league this season, replacing OGS is difficult to argue, especially when including the expectations before the season started. However, looking at how we play, then there is zero progress from last season.
We cannot attack, press, pass or defend as a unit. Everything is about players making it up on the spot.
Is the type of football we are playing under OGS going to be competitive at the highest level? If we add a world class centre forward, a dominant CB and a good defensive midfielder, then we are suddenly going to press with some intent, create pressing traps, progress the ball without taking high risk passes, be able to break down parked buses?
The problem with categorically denying that is that we've got a manager who supposedly wants to play a high defensive line who persists with a goalkeeper that doesn't come off his line, and then goes and spends £130m on an incredibly slow centre half and a right back that doesn't seem to be able to hold an offside line. He also went and spent £40m on van de Beek with no idea as to how to use him. But the defenders were the biggest names that could've been bought that summer, which was reflected by their transfer fees.
His preferred playing style doesn't match the signings he's making and the squad he's building.
Thanks for the video. Playing the ball back and then turning and running into space is the most basic tactic ever for a winger. I don’t think Sterling needs to be shown this. I think that’s pep more showing him Body shape when turning so he can go different ways instead of just spin turning, which is fair enough. Patterns of play though? Bit far imo.
I think about Sir Alex and Jim Leighton, all he had achieved at Aberdeen and he had no qualms dropping him in the cup replay for Les Sealy. Pep got rid of Joe Hart, Klopp got rid of various calamities.The problem with categorically denying that is that we've got a manager who supposedly wants to play a high defensive line who persists with a goalkeeper that doesn't come off his line, and then goes and spends £130m on an incredibly slow centre half and a right back that doesn't seem to be able to hold an offside line. He also went and spent £40m on van de Beek with no idea as to how to use him. But the defenders were the biggest names that could've been bought that summer, which was reflected by their transfer fees.
His preferred playing style doesn't match the signings he's making and the squad he's building.
The RvN situation is a great example of a manager dropping an individually great player to encourage a certain play style for the entire team. Dropped RvN despite him banging them in for the more mobile Saha which was the start of our big resurgence to the top between 2006 and 2010.
Ole's basically doing the opposite, saying he wants a certain playing style and then buys players that aren't compatible with that. And then we're scratching our heads as to why we're conceding 1v1s on a regular basis or why we're conceding so many from crosses and set pieces. How often do teams get 1v1s with our goalkeeper compared to other teams? How can we let teams bully our goalkeeper so easily on corners?
We don't play like a team, our players look like they have never met each other once just they step onto the pitch.
We don't play the ball quick enough, our players especially our centre backs take too many touches of the ball before making simple passes which in turn allows the opposition to mark our players easily.
We don't pass and move to create spaces and draw players out of position.
We don't press and work hard as a team, only a few of our players choose to press and close down the opposition.
We don't have players making good overlapping runs.
We don't get the ball in the box enough, especially from wide positions.
We don't get enough players in the box, usually there is just one player who is marked by two or three players.
We don't take enough shots or good enough shots that work keepers.
There are probably several more things that we don't do correctly.
This has been a problem for several fecking years not just under Ole but how can managers keep coming in and not improve on any of these things and these things are fecking basic and until we improve on this we won't be competing for anything significant.
We don't play the ball quick enough, our players especially our centre backs take too many touches of the ball before making simple passes which in turn allows the opposition to mark our players easily.
We don't pass and move to create spaces and draw players out of position.
We don't press and work hard as a team, only a few of our players choose to press and close down the opposition.
We don't have players making good overlapping runs.
We don't get the ball in the box enough, especially from wide positions.
We don't get enough players in the box, usually there is just one player who is marked by two or three players.
We don't take enough shots or good enough shots that work keepers.
There are probably several more things that we don't do correctly.
This has been a problem for several fecking years not just under Ole but how can managers keep coming in and not improve on any of these things and these things are fecking basic and until we improve on this we won't be competing for anything significant.
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Come on. Pep surely does improve players despite the spending jibes. Sterling, Stones, KDB, just so many tbh
We have always come a cropper against the likes of West Brom even under Fergie where we looked poor against smaller clubs at times. So this isn't anything new to me and the current West Brom team has taken points of both Klopp and Guardiola.
We don't have the players to sustain attacks and also maintain a defensive balance apart from Fernandes and Pogba who haven't even played in tandem long enough. City are on course to win their 3rd league title in 4 years and If you compare their squad to ours, theirs is comfortably better than ours, hence they control games better than any team in the league. They have creativity in abundance compared to our squad and they're backed by a oil rich state which has allowed Guardiola to waste 100s of millions on fullbacks alone.
Solskjaer has made mistakes in the transfer window and I called out the signings of both Maguire and AWB as the wrong signings before most on here due to the aforementioned not being a fit for the way Solskjaer wants to play, which I also described in some detail at the time. But he's got us into a position where we look like we're gonna qualify for the UCL in consecutive seasons which hasn't happened under any other manager post Fergie. So I'm willing to be patient and hope he does sign the CB that will allow him to play a more expansive game and also improve on a few other positions from a technical POV which will help us transition play more smoothly.
Whether he's the man long term remains to be seen. But at this juncture he's done more than enough to be backed in the summer to improve upon the squad. I will judge him next season.
Yeah, it is obvious that against sides whose tactics is launch it to big men up front, you need a goalie who is confident taking crosses. Also if you are going to have a slow CB, you need a quick skillful one next to him. If you do not have wingers, your fullbacks have to be capable of doing that job instead.