We are completely dependent on Pogba's contribution

roykeane19

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And that 3 months was better than any performances any other player gave in the 9.

The Caf is truly an odd place. Limited players like Ander Freaking Herrera are lauded, while world class players like Pogba are widely criticized. If I were Pogba, given all the vitriol he's gotten all season while still being United's best player by a wide margin, I would want out too.
Our only world class player by a mile. The media have been doing their best to spin negative stories, and most united fans arent the brightest, they follow whatever the daily mail leads them to believe. Which ends in him being abused by the fans.
If I was him I`d be shocked, all other team members are shit, and no one gets blamed except foe the best player on the team.
And constantly being vilified in the country your working in doesnt exactly help matters much, least of all when even your own fans are told not to liek you, because they dont have their own brain cells to think from
 

He'sRaldo

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This whole Pogba thing has made me think about the issue of player profiles. In my opinion, a player is who he is, especially by the age of 24 and up, so getting mad at a player for not being something else is just stupid.


An example would be N'golo Kante. If we get him, most would rightly understand that such a player would never be the creative hub of a side, but he'll make up for it with his excellent work rate and defensive nous. The opposite would be true for, say, Eden Hazard. Fairly straightforward.


So the question is why do we keep consistently expecting different things from the players we've got? Martial must track his fullback all the way into our box, Pogba needs to be behind the ball at all times during defense, Lukaku must play target man and develop his touch to world class levels, Lingard must dribble and score like Martial... it just doesn't work this way.


Every player has flaws, as well as things that make them effective, so I think we'll save a lot of headache by just accepting each player's profile. The truth is, it's the club's fault for buying these players without taking into account how their respective profiles fit our playstyle. Blaming the players makes little sense, as they'll always play the way they have been their entire life. After all, they made it to Man Utd by playing in that manner!
 
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WensleyMU

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You didn't feck off with Mourinho, so I think I'll stay. Muppet.
There's quite a substantial difference between the two, but I doubt you possess the insight to figure it out.

Each and every post defending Pogba is a joke. He was the problem back then and remains the problem right now.
 
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WensleyMU

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Yes one of them is being chased by two European giant ,the other one is being avoided like a virus and possibly landing in China. Big differences.
Have either of these clubs offered anywhere near the asking price? Because if they havent, it might suggest they dont value him as highly as some might think.
 

WensleyMU

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Why aren't all the players who have been performing worse than Pogba (hint, it's most of them) 'the' problem?
Performing worse that not performing at all? Is that even possible? Sure |Pogba had half a dozen good games and some decent ones, but thats about 1/5th of a season. For the other 4/5th we may as well have offered his place to a lucky competition winner. We would still have finished 6th.

These players are rightly criticised. Many of who have actually contributed more to United than Pogba has during their careers here, yet they are not above criticism like Pogba is, to a tiny minority of supporters.
 

MackRobinson

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There's quite a substantial difference between the two, but I doubt you possess the insight to figure it out.

Each and every post defending Pogba is a joke. He was the problem back then and remains the problem right now.
Yeah, one is wanted by the likes of Juventus and Real Madrid and considered in his prime. The other is fielding offers from China. You're not the brightest crayon in the box are you.
 

WensleyMU

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When I really want something, I always make a ridiculously low offer and try to flog some of my crap alongside it. That shows how much I want it...
 

MadDogg

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Performing worse that not performing at all? Is that even possible? Sure |Pogba had half a dozen good games and some decent ones, but thats about 1/5th of a season. For the other 4/5th we may as well have offered his place to a lucky competition winner. We would still have finished 6th.
Massively exaggerated.

He did have three games where you could rightfully say he did not perform at all, and he should be rightfully lambasted for those as it was obvious he wasn't even trying. Otherwise he was poor for about 50% of the season (during which he was still better than many and perhaps even most of our players), and good for 50% of the season (and his good was regularly our best).

What you are saying here is as ridiculous as the people who make out that he was great all season and who don't want to hear any negatives. Both 'sides' are using massive hyperbolic statements, and as such making themselves sound stupid. The reality is somewhere in between.
 

deafepl

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Spot on, mate! The only thing we depend on Pogba for is inconsistent games. That's pretty much what he brings to the table. If we could play our best game away to PSG without him, it tells me we can do just fine without him next season. I think we can improve on McTominay and Pereira...
Did we? :lol::lol:
 

Bobski

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Why not? Does he not play good for France most of the time? Solid in juve? If he had more quality around him he would be even better for us..
Until the WC France were having exactly the same discussions about Pogba as we have had for his 3 years back. What is his best role, how do you get the best out of him. At the WC he surprised many by showing the discipline, focus and most importantly willingness to play a less enjoyable role for the good of the group.

He is an exceptional talent but he is difficult to fit into an orthodox role in midfield and as has been discussed in other threads, free spirited midfielders with little appetite for the drudgery of midfield work are finding it difficult in the modern game.
 

Foxbatt

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My views on Pogba are different. It is not his lack of tracking back that is my issue. If he does not track back then he should do positive things that negates his lack of tracking. This is something he does not do. For eg. If he gets the ball the rest of his team mates should have faith in him not to lose possession and let the opposing team create an attack against us. Unfortunately Pogba has not control over this and lose possession trying to do too many fancy stuff on his own and we are under pressure. Keeping possession alone is good enough for Pogba. This is is biggest problem. There are many players who do not track or not capable of tracking back but when you give the ball they rarely lose possession trying to do too many things on their own.
We should sell him now not because he is not the best player but because he is not the best player needed for United right now.
 

Jib

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He is the best midfielder in the world and even if he's surrounded by average players, the stats are still putting him way ahead of the others midfielder in the top 4 league. It's crazy. No wonder the biggest clubs in the world ( Barcelona last summer, Real Madrid and Juventus this summer ) are after him.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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The issue is we have too many average players. He can leave if he wants, don’t think it’s an issue if we can identify what we need to replace him.

And in order to replace him we need a ball playing centre back to play from the back, a deep playmaker in midfield to control the tempo & midfield & attacking mid to create chance for the forwards.

We can’t keep relying on one single player to do everything. Just because Pogba is going to leave doesn’t mean we are done for, if we can get those three roles/position, we will be fine challenging top 4 without him.

And also most of Pogba’s goals were penalty, rashford could have scored 15 league goals last season if he was given the penalty job and he has shown he’s capable to do it with England once and against PSG.
 

Gasolin

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Have either of these clubs offered anywhere near the asking price? Because if they havent, it might suggest they dont value him as highly as some might think.
Or they believe they don't have to offer that much to get him. Juve did try to low ball Ajax for De Ligt. Does that mean they don't value him properly? I am sure they do.
 

RedRonaldo

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What's the point in having one standout player if it's too the detriment of the rest of the team?

The difference between Liverpool/City and United is that they are a collective which is greater than the sum of their parts. We are weaker than the sum of our parts because they don't work together
This detriment on rest of the team is blowing totally out of proportion.
Bad attitude yes, but our team isn't that good for a start, and they ain't a bunch of 5 years old kid who is easily swayed by some bad influence in the dressing room either, they are all grown up professional players getting who are paid alot of wages FFS (we are one of the top paid club in the world). Without Pogba, our current team would probably do far worst.
 
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Eoin McMahon

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From the moment he arrived for a then record transfer fee to much fanfare around the world, it just feels like he never did show us why we paid the fee, why we were so excited and why we expected so much. Pogba is the epitome of what modern day footballs big names have become. Huge salaries, social media influence and numerous other off the pitch distractions that only 10-20 years ago are nothing in comparison.

All this aside I think he's a top player and I don't want to see top players leave unless they clearly have to leave.With the fee paid for him and comparing with the previous record fee holders you can see why people expected him to perform week in week out with a goal and assist minimum every game and I think even he expected it from himself and therein lies what i think has been the biggest problem with Pogba at United. We signed a potential world class midfielder for money that people thought meant we'd signed a player like Ronaldo or Messi.

We have a good idea that from what his agent and even Pogba himself would like is to move on. As much as it pains me I think he's probably right to try and leave too. He has been stuck in a team that has played defensive football for the majority of his time at the club, has missed out on the champions league again with us and to top it all off we just haven't seemed to be able to gel a team together that we can say are a Man United team and we are confident of winning games.

So if he does stay and say we finally do put together a team that can match the likes of Liverpool and City i'm certain he would be a huge part of that team going forward. Pogba is now at a world class level and we have seen what he can do and its time the club starts performing at a world class level too from the board of directors to players on the pitch. I hope Paul Pogba stays what about you?
Just wanted to post my thread from the newbie forum ya i know still a newbie. Just felt its relevant to this thread and would like to get your thoughts.
 

clarkydaz

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Just wanted to post my thread from the newbie forum ya i know still a newbie. Just felt its relevant to this thread and would like to get your thoughts.
too much damage done, cant trust the guy or his agent. He will do better elsewhere and the club will follow a different path without him. Far too many planets need to be aligned for him to perform. sick of the guy to be honest
 

TsuWave

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He is the best midfielder in the world and even if he's surrounded by average players, the stats are still putting him way ahead of the others midfielder in the top 4 league. It's crazy. No wonder the biggest clubs in the world ( Barcelona last summer, Real Madrid and Juventus this summer ) are after him.
People on this forum are delusional, and will actively try to act like we will be better off by selling/without him. Guy is a class above all potential replacements and several above anything else we have.
 

Classical Mechanic

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People on this forum are delusional, and will actively try to act like we will be better off by selling/without him. Guy is a class above all potential replacements and several above anything else we have.
We are at exactly the same level or worse than before we signed him, under Moyes and LVG. He hasn’t elevated the team at all. Problem with Pogba is that he isn’t a big game player and a talisman needs to be. This is something that was an issue for him at Juve too, check his record. He was invisible in his biggest club game of his career when Juve lost to Real in the CL final. His international tournament record is weak also - 13 apps, 2 goals and 0 assists. His goal at Euro 2016 came in a rout against Iceland. He scored in the World Cup final which is a feather in anyone’s cap but did you really feel he left a real impression on that tournament? His goal stats for United this season have been inflated by an unusual amount of penalties. There was brief a period in the season after Mou left when he was on fire but it isn’t enough.

He’s an individual in an era when team’s functionality is becoming ever more important, paramount even. We can’t carry him because the league is too competitive and we’re too far behind the rest of the pack. He’ll be fine at Juve because they have no competition in the league but I tend to think he’ll flop in the big European games again. I fear for him at Real because it seems only Zidane wants him and managers are very impermanent. The Madrid fans are the definition of fickle too and won’t tolerate his woeful bottom level.

There’s no question that he’s an amazing ‘baller’ with incredible skill levels but for better or for worse these types of players are becoming less important in the modern game where functioning as a unit in all phases of play is becoming the key to success.

It’s over, he’s gone. I’ve been around for long enough to have seen countless ‘star’ players leave clubs and they get better without them. Under LVG we finished 4th and 5th, after buying Pogba and investing heavily we finished 7th, 2nd and 6th. For us to get worse with him gone we’d have to get overtaken by the likes of Everton and Leicester which says it all really. It’s time for something different.
 

Beaucoup

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After 3 years at the club I still don’t know what type of midfielder Pogba is, or his best position? he’s a sort of hybrid. I definitely think we would have a much better functioning midfield with specialist players in each position.
 

TsuWave

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We are at exactly the same level or worse than before we signed him, under Moyes and LVG. He hasn’t elevated the team at all. Problem with Pogba is that he isn’t a big game player and a talisman needs to be. This is something that was an issue for him at Juve too, check his record. He was invisible in his biggest club game of his career when Juve lost to Real in the CL final. His international tournament record is weak also - 13 apps, 2 goals and 0 assists. His goal at Euro 2016 came in a rout against Iceland. He scored in the World Cup final which is a feather in anyone’s cap but did you really feel he left a real impression on that tournament? His goal stats for United this season have been inflated by an unusual amount of penalties. There was brief a period in the season after Mou left when he was on fire but it isn’t enough.

He’s an individual in an era when team’s functionality is becoming ever more important, paramount even. We can’t carry him because the league is too competitive and we’re too far behind the rest of the pack. He’ll be fine at Juve because they have no competition in the league but I tend to think he’ll flop in the big European games again. I fear for him at Real because it seems only Zidane wants him and managers are very impermanent. The Madrid fans are the definition of fickle too and won’t tolerate his woeful bottom level.

There’s no question that he’s an amazing ‘baller’ with incredible skill levels but for better or for worse these types of players are becoming less important in the modern game where functioning as a unit in all phases of play is becoming the key to success.

It’s over, he’s gone. I’ve been around for long enough to have seen countless ‘star’ players leave clubs and they get better without them. Under LVG we finished 4th and 5th, after buying Pogba and investing heavily we finished 7th, 2nd and 6th. For us to get worse with him gone we’d have to get overtaken by the likes of Everton and Leicester which says it all really. It’s time for something different.
post is full of the delusional nonsense I was referring to.

Pogba's contribution at United:



"we can't carry him" :lol:. the man is literally carrying United

Pogba's contribution at World Cup:






https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-to-dominator-paul-pogbas-world-cup-evolution

but somehow he didn't make "a real impression" at WC2018 right?
 
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norm87cro

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We really are not. He attempts fancy passes the most and I would really like to see his accuracy percentage of those fancy passes in the final third. He has scored a lot of penalties as well so his goalscoring record for us is not that impressive. He goes missing for large portions of matches and our biggest victory (PSG away) came without him because he left his teammates high and dry by getting needlesly sent of in the first match.
 

SER19

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Spot on, mate! The only thing we depend on Pogba for is inconsistent games. That's pretty much what he brings to the table. If we could play our best game away to PSG without him, it tells me we can do just fine without him next season. I think we can improve on McTominay and Pereira...
Yes as talented as he is I think we can become a far better team without him. Woodward will likely fail us all though
 

Classical Mechanic

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post is full of the delusional nonsense I was referring to.

Pogba's contribution at United:



"we can't carry him" :lol:. the man is literally carrying United

Pogba's contribution at World Cup:






https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-to-dominator-paul-pogbas-world-cup-evolution

but somehow he didn't make "a real impression" at WC2018 right?
Faulty aware of his stats for United this season. Firstly he leads many of those stats because he’s played so many minutes as opposed to the the rest of the midfielders and attacking players. The attacking player that played the next highest amount of minutes was Rashford who played 667 minutes less than him. Matic was the midfielder that played the next highest amount of minutes and played 571 less minutes, after that it was Hererra who played a massive 1607 minutes less! Of course he’ll lead many of those stats. Squaka release stuff like that for retweets, they know full well that per 90 expressions are far more reflective. As you know we had an unusual amount of penalties this season which inflated his goals stats to higher than he’s got in a season before. His assists were good but actually lower this year than his best for United and Juve.

That stats you posted for the World Cup basically show that he’s good long passer and good at running with ball though midfield but there’s a lot more to being a complete player in the modern game as discussed in my previous post. It’s no surprise that he has most touches given his role in the team but his end product in both tournaments was blunted. I will concede that the way I phrased his contribution at the WC was a poor use of language but if you watched all those games and thought you saw anywhere near the best Pogba then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

When I said ‘carry him’ what I mean is that we don’t have the team quality to cover for his weaknesses. Let’s accept that he carries the team as he does in your eyes. I’d argue he isn’t that player because of his weak performances in big games, his patchy form and woeful bottom level and his poor work rate meaning that we are susceptible to be bypassed in midfield when we turn the ball over. A team that doesn’t rely on one player to run the show can play as a better cohesive unit.

I really believe that we can become a better side without him so long as we land our transfer targets this summer. Your Pogchester United has been a badly failed experiment, even Moyesesque at times.
 

AdamAdams

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The only stat I give a shit about is whether he gives a shit. If he gave a shit he'd be awesome but the truth is he'll always be team Pogba, get rid, would rather see a kid get a chance
 

Canagel

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The agenda against him is unbelievable. We are entering into yet another campaign with same dross that has failed since Moyes time but apparently Pogba "attitude" is the problem and the bad apple that must be removed.

Average players like Shaw and Herrera that doesn't even make their national team are widely praised but our world cup winner is backed by all the statistical evidence yet his heavily critisized.

Pogba "walking" is a somehow a problem when players like Young, Matic, Lingard and Shaw have all walked at parts of the season but nobody have the same energy for them I wonder why.

Pogba's face is on the newspaper whenever we lost but they would never put Phil Jones picture even if he has made the mistake to cost us the match- like FA Cup last year.

I wish him well when he is gone.
 

clarkydaz

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The agenda against him is unbelievable. We are entering into yet another campaign with same dross that has failed since Moyes time but apparently Pogba "attitude" is the problem and the bad apple that must be removed.

Average players like Shaw and Herrera that doesn't even make their national team are widely praised but our world cup winner is backed by all the statistical evidence yet his heavily critisized.

Pogba "walking" is a somehow a problem when players like Young, Matic, Lingard and Shaw have all walked at parts of the season but nobody have the same energy for them I wonder why.

Pogba's face is on the newspaper whenever we lost but they would never put Phil Jones picture even if he has made the mistake to cost us the match- like FA Cup last year.

I wish him well when he is gone.
the guy wants to leave and likely has done for a year after Jose. What do you want?
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
post is full of the delusional nonsense I was referring to.

Pogba's contribution at United:



"we can't carry him" :lol:. the man is literally carrying United

Pogba's contribution at World Cup:






https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-to-dominator-paul-pogbas-world-cup-evolution

but somehow he didn't make "a real impression" at WC2018 right?

Look at those stats. People have genuine cognitive dissonance here, for whatever reason...

This is insane.

I actually wonder how the treatment of Pogba here will affect other flare players from joining us...

Because if he rocks up at Real and shines (as I think he will), it will send out a big, big message about how United is run, and also how we look after our best players - and it won't be a good one.
 

Alex99

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Look at those stats. People have genuine cognitive dissonance here, for whatever reason...

This is insane.

I actually wonder how the treatment of Pogba here will affect other flare players from joining us...

Because if he rocks up at Real and shines (as I think he will), it will send out a big, big message about how United is run, and also how we look after our best players - and it won't be a good one.
What are you on about? We basically sacked a manager to appease him.

If he wants to dick around doing interviews where he says "it's time for a new challenge" and allow his agent to make very public comments about his desire to leave, while our current manager has repeatedly expressed a desire to build the entire fecking team around him, I'm not sure what else we can do for him.

How has he been mistreated at United?
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
What are you on about? We basically sacked a manager to appease him.

If he wants to dick around doing interviews where he says "it's time for a new challenge" and allow his agent to make very public comments about his desire to leave, while our current manager has repeatedly expressed a desire to build the entire fecking team around him, I'm not sure what else we can do for him.

How has he been mistreated at United?
He's been used, willfully, as a scapegoat for the failings of the club and the current manager.

He hasn't protected at all when Utd legends like Neville have literally personally attacked him with dodgy tub-thumping rhetoric about him 'being on social media', and 'dancing'.

He's been abused by fans for being our single best player over the season.

It's an ugly scene - and if you think other skill players will look at it and think, 'oh yeah, that's Pogba's fault', fecking think again.

As I said, if he goes to Real and shines, as he did at Juve, and as he did while winning the fecking World Cup last Summer - it will reflect awfully on Utd.
 

JustAGuest

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He is the best midfielder in the world and even if he's surrounded by average players, the stats are still putting him way ahead of the others midfielder in the top 4 league. It's crazy. No wonder the biggest clubs in the world ( Barcelona last summer, Real Madrid and Juventus this summer ) are after him.
Which stats out of interest?
 

Alex99

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He's been used, willfully, as a scapegoat for the failings of the club and the current manager.

He hasn't protected at all when Utd legends like Neville have literally personally attacked him with dodgy tub-thumping rhetoric about him 'being on social media', and 'dancing'.

He's been abused by fans for being our single best player over the season.

It's an ugly scene - and if you think other skill players will look at it and think, 'oh yeah, that's Pogba's fault', fecking think again.

As I said, if he goes to Real and shines, as he did at Juve, and as he did while winning the fecking World Cup last Summer - it will reflect awfully on Utd.
1) The club haven't used him as a scapegoat, with Mourinho being sacked supposedly partly due to his continued habit of singling out Pogba, among other young players, after poor performances. Solskjaer has repeatedly stated his desire to build the team around Pogba.

2) As above, Solskjaer as repeatedly talked about his desire to build the team around Pogba and how important a player he is for the team, and has repeatedly tried to squash transfer gossip by stating that he believes Pogba is determined to remain at United. Pogba's repaid this by going abroad and saying that he wants a new challenge, while his agent is outright saying he wants to leave the club this summer.

3) The fans are not the club. You're moving the goalposts if treatment by fans is somehow the fault of the club. Also, Real Madrid's fans are notoriously impatient with players and don't hesitate whatsoever to give them horrendous abuse, so this point is just bizarre.

You're just twisting things to fit a narrative that completely lets Pogba off the hook.

There are justifiable reasons for Pogba to be skeptical about the future of the club, and by extension, his future as a footballer at the club, but you've not mentioned any of them, and have instead concocted some strange tale of Pogba being horrendously mistreated by club officials.
 

WensleyMU

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He's been used, willfully, as a scapegoat for the failings of the club and the current manager.

He hasn't protected at all when Utd legends like Neville have literally personally attacked him with dodgy tub-thumping rhetoric about him 'being on social media', and 'dancing'.

He's been abused by fans for being our single best player over the season.

It's an ugly scene - and if you think other skill players will look at it and think, 'oh yeah, that's Pogba's fault', fecking think again.

As I said, if he goes to Real and shines, as he did at Juve, and as he did while winning the fecking World Cup last Summer - it will reflect awfully on Utd.
Besides this being complete nonsense, the problem for Pogba at Madrid is unlike in Italy, where Juventus are completely unchallenged domestically, Madrid have the small issue of the vastly superior Barcelona. Madrid are as close to winning the league as we are, and Pogba makes no difference to those chances, at either club.

As for him being mistreated, he's made the scapegoat because he is the problem. He's the most talented player in the squad yet his performances are often below that of youth products who've played a handful of games. His attitude is a disgrace at times and this reflects badly on everyone.

Many of his supporters feel he should be credited for the good things he does but are often incapable of accepting criticism for the bad things he does. You cannot have both. He's been below average more often than he's been good.

Far better players before him have carried the weight of the side, gaining praise for the good, and criticism for the bad.

If Pogba thinks going to Madrid is going to be easy, then he's not only half arsed, hes arguably a bit dim. Madrid will not accept his attitude, the fans will hound him even when things go right. The manager will not be there for over half his contract and that appears to be the primary reason for Madrid wanting him. United bent over backwards for him, Madrid treat players who have won them European Cups like trash.... Pogbas got no chance.
 
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clarkydaz

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He's been used, willfully, as a scapegoat for the failings of the club and the current manager.

He hasn't protected at all when Utd legends like Neville have literally personally attacked him with dodgy tub-thumping rhetoric about him 'being on social media', and 'dancing'.
You mean like in the first year when Jose had to resort to insulting legends like Scholes, Keane and Neville saying they are just jealous of him? Like then you mean? Jose defended him to the point he realised he was getting little in return from the player. He gave him the captaincy to try and give him responsibility and mature and he played just as shite with the armband admitting he wasn't focused
 

markhrad

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
1,100
Location
St. Kitts
If Pogba goes we are screwed. There is no way that we can attract another world class player to replace him. We always have problems getting the world's best to come and join us and its worse now that we can not offer them Champion's league football. At least with Pogba in the side he may attract decent players to join us.
Those of you who want him out of here probably did not live through the 70s and 80s because I suspect a similar drought is upon us. Our only hope is for new owners who are willing to spend our way out of what will be a prolonged slump.