We are completely dependent on Pogba's contribution

[Kush]

Of course we are. Its like folks have completely forgotten our form (and season) fell off the cliff once Pogba stopped scoring or assisting.

Pogba was in his best ever form when Ole joined, and it was a significant reason as to why we went on a great run. But once the teams started to get a grip of his new position/playstyle, Ole couldn't find a way to get him to be productive. Unless we pull some absolute blinders till now and end of transfer window, I expect us to struggle again if he doesn't fire (i.e. if he stays here anyway).

 

[kouroux]

the first 30 minutes rocked PSG (yes they gave us gifts but I think the were surprised at how attack-minded we were)

Buffon fecking up the way he did had little to do with them being surprised with us. It was a howler that came at the worst time

 

[kouroux]

I don't know if it's true because I never watch our press conferences when a player signs (why would you?) but heard on the radio yesterday that in Pogba's first press conference at OT he was asked what he wanted to achieve. You would expect him to say win PL or CL but, according to the pundit on TalkShite, he said: "Win the balloon D'or". Says everything about Pogba for me

You don't know if it's true but yet you still made your opinion ?

 

[Leftback99]

Of course we are. Its like folks have completely forgotten our form (and season) fell off the cliff once Pogba stopped scoring or assisting.

Pogba was in his best ever form when Ole joined, and it was a significant reason as to why we went on a great run. But once the teams started to get a grip of his new position/playstyle, Ole couldn't find a way to get him to be productive. Unless we pull some absolute blinders till now and end of transfer window, I expect us to struggle again if he doesn't fire (i.e. if he stays here anyway).

If he has been so easily nullified then what's the big deal about losing him?

 

[RedSky]

Of course we are. Its like folks have completely forgotten our form (and season) fell off the cliff once Pogba stopped scoring or assisting.

Pogba was in his best ever form when Ole joined, and it was a significant reason as to why we went on a great run. But once the teams started to get a grip of his new position/playstyle, Ole couldn't find a way to get him to be productive. Unless we pull some absolute blinders till now and end of transfer window, I expect us to struggle again if he doesn't fire (i.e. if he stays here anyway).

It was Pogbas form grinding to a halt but also De Gea throwing the ball into our own net every other game that buried us last season. De Geas form really was the main reason we didn't get Top 4 tbh. Hopefully just a blip in the matrix.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Is it Pogba being ridiculously good or is the rest of our team just utter crap?

It's Pogba being ridiculously good when he is given time and space to dictate the play. But put a little pressure on him and he can be completely outplayed by Mark fecking Noble...

 

[kouroux]

It was Pogbas form grinding to a halt but also De Gea throwing the ball into our own net every other game that buried us last season. De Geas form really was the main reason we didn't get Top 4 tbh. Hopefully just a blip in the matrix.

Yeah but it was also them who helped us even have a chance to get a top 4 spot to begin with. When Jose was sacked, we had no business getting into that competition.

 

[RedSky]

Yeah but it was also them who helped us even have a chance to get a top 4 spot to begin with. When Jose was sacked, we had no business getting into that competition.

I don't blame either player. The Great Dane himself had a wobble (from vague memory I remember getting the piss taken out of me as a kid by Villa fans).

The real concern I have is that we're going into another season and we're relying on both players to carry us (again). If anything our midfield has regressed with Herrera leaving. Desperately need some signings that pay off and improve our first eleven.

 

[JPRouve]

It was Pogbas form grinding to a halt but also De Gea throwing the ball into our own net every other game that buried us last season. De Geas form really was the main reason we didn't get Top 4 tbh. Hopefully just a blip in the matrix.

The main reason we didn't get Top 4 is because our players have been bad almost 100% of the time. De Gea, Pogba and Shaw aren't responsible for the rest of the team being subpar even when you consider their own deeps in form.

 

[kouroux]

I don't blame either player. The Great Dane himself had a wobble (from vague memory I remember getting the piss taken out of me as a kid by Villa fans).

The real concern I have is that we're going into another season and we're relying on both players to carry us (again). If anything our midfield has regressed with Herrera leaving. Desperately need some signings that pay off and improve our first eleven.

I agree with you. The thing I hate the most right now is how blurry the situation is, if Pogba is meant to stay then the club should really make a big statement attesting to it and if we're to sell him, I hope we get so much money we can buy several players with it. It just needs to happen fast, I'm so tired of the uncertainty.

 

[ottosec]

Not surprising since he is by far our best outfield player.

We're basically a mid-table team plus Pogba and DDG. When both of them play poorly, we saw at the end of last season what happens.

Unfortunately, it looks like both want out, which is understandable.

 

[Kush]

If he has been so easily nullified then what's the big deal about losing him?

Teams always setup to nullify opposition best player, problem with us compared to other top teams is that we've only one outstanding outfield player who's the sole source of creativity in Pogba. If teams can shut down the middle, it forces Pogba to drop deeper from where he cannot hurt them. Our non-existent wing-play further contributes to it.

We shouldn't be looking to sell a player just because they're 'easily nullified', that's an incredibly dumb line of thinking because there wouldn't be many players left on the planet who can't be nullified. We should be flexible tactically to adapt as a team in such a scenario, but the last 4 managers have shown themselves to combat that by trying to swing in shit crosses ad nauseam. Replacing Pogba with a lesser player while contuining to play shit systems and tactics won't improve us as a team.

The main reason we didn't get Top 4 is because our players have been bad almost 100% of the time. De Gea, Pogba and Shaw aren't responsible for the rest of the team being subpar even we you consider their own deeps in form.

Thank you.

 

[Bilbo]

What those stats also show is how much of our play goes through a player who his biggest fans would say is streaky. Others would say not always bothered. Undoubtedly brilliant on his day but could also be described as self-serving, and I'm not sure anyone is convinced about whether he is a problem in the dressing room or not.

Perhaps selling him and buying two other players to take on that burden wouldn't be the disaster some think it would be. Personally I'm undecided, but if he wants out then we should absolutely get rid. A half arsed Pogba has always been a huge hindrance to our play

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Before he joined we finished 7th, 4th & 5th. After he joined we finished 7th, 2nd & 6th. He hasn't made a profound difference to our side.

Lose him and you find another way to play.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Yes, we absolutely are dependent... and so far we're also absolutely helpless in finding a player who could give him a run for his money and possibly bench him in case of lower form, mood or whatever.

This dillema can be easily solved but it requires actions and some bravery on the market.

 

[Gasolin]

Of course we are. Its like folks have completely forgotten our form (and season) fell off the cliff once Pogba stopped scoring or assisting.

Pogba was in his best ever form when Ole joined, and it was a significant reason as to why we went on a great run. But once the teams started to get a grip of his new position/playstyle, Ole couldn't find a way to get him to be productive. Unless we pull some absolute blinders till now and end of transfer window, I expect us to struggle again if he doesn't fire (i.e. if he stays here anyway).

Then the only answer is to add another good midfielder who can play balls when Pogba is closely marked so that the other teams cannot just focus on Pogba. Maybe that's the answer? Can Ole set this up? I hope he can.

 

[Patrick08]

People love to shit on him and say get rid, because he's a bit of a prat, but truth is we are literally midtable level without him. He is the reason we aren't behind Wolves and Everton.

When teams stop Pogba, they stop United. Outfield wise, we are basically a one man team, and that one man takes tons of shit from both our fanbase and media, it's no wonder he wants out.

Like we wont add more creativity?

 

[DoomSlayer]

Before he joined we finished 7th, 4th & 5th. After he joined we finished 7th, 2nd & 6th. He hasn't made a profound difference to our side.

Lose him and you find another way to play.

Well, the club has declined even further in that time, whilst our main rivals/competitors have become a few times better, and are dominating both domestically and in the European competitions.

If we don't get at least £150/£160 million for him, it will show that we have no ambition whatsoever. By the looks of it, Real Madrid and Juventus barely want to spend the same amount as we did when we bought him back - that's insulting to Manchester United, to say the least.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Well, the club has declined even further in that time, whilst our main rivals/competitors have become a few times better, and are dominating both domestically and in the European competition.

If we don't get at least £150/£160 million for him, it will show that we have no ambition whatsoever. By the looks of it, Real Madrid and Juventus barely want to spend the same amount as we did when we bought him back - that's insulting to Manchester United, to say the least.

Lets face it, he's going nowhere this summer.

 

[mitchmouse]

You don't know if it's true but yet you still made your opinion ?

well anyone given it a second's thought would take "if true" as read... but obviously you didn't

 

[mitchmouse]

Buffon fecking up the way he did had little to do with them being surprised with us. It was a howler that came at the worst time

their defence looked like ours during the last 6-7 games of the season

 

[kouroux]

well anyone given it a second's thought would take "if true" as read... but obviously you didn't

It really felt like the "if true" is just an excuse but I can accept being wrong

 

[kouroux]

their defence looked like ours during the last 6-7 games of the season

They played terribly, we played barely better. We benefited from a huge mistake and Kimpembe sticking his elbow out.

 

[Shakesy]

How good is Pogba anyway?

Here's a little game you can play. According to the highly regarded WhoScored.com our 6 players (including AWB) with the highest average career match rating makes for some interesting reading.

Coming in at #1, a player described as being "very good" at finishing and "weak" at tackling gets a 7.48 average...

Spoiler: The clue is in the thread title

Paul Pogba

At #2 we have someone who is "very strong" at through balls and "weak" at offside awareness, aerial duels and crossing. He has a 7.47 average...

Spoiler: Got it?

Alexis Sanchez

At #3 the player is described as being "very strong" at dribbling, tackling, ball interception, and blocking the ball and "weak" at holding on to the ball and passing. He has an average of 7.28...

Spoiler: Any idea?

Aaron Wan-Bissaka

At #4 is the guy who is "strong" at aerial duels, passing, ball interception and blocking the ball, and "weak" at discipline. His average is 7.15...

Spoiler: Mmmm?

Nemanja Matic

The next two both boast an average of 7.11. The first one is "strong" at finishing and "weak" at defensive contribution.

Spoiler: Yoo can do eet

Romelu Lukaku

Now, the second one with an average of 7.11 is described as being "strong" at holding on to the ball, key passes, crossing and ball interception and "weak" at tackling.

Spoiler: You will never guess

Phil Jones. Phil Friggen Jones! He has a better match rating average than De Gea, Mata and Herrera! Better than Smalling! Even... Even better than the Beanz Twins!

So, how many did you get?

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

He's far and away the best player at the club and we leave it on him to do everything. It probably wrecks his head in that he's surrounded by mediocrity and I don't see him as a Keane type who'll grab the game by the scruff of the neck. We really need another option in midfield. Someone who can carry the ball, make a good pass and works within a system. It takes the workload off of Pogba and the pressure. Pogba needs more space and freedom and he'd be putting up ridiculous numbers.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

If he doesn't want to play in the Europa then he shouldn't of moved to us when we was in fact in the Europa

Also if he didn't want to play EL, why didn't he just score more goals last season? His logic makes no sense.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Also if he didn't want to play EL, why didn't he just score more goals last season? His logic makes no sense.

Footballer rarely take the blame for their own shortcomings.

 

[tonnas]

We can't really blame him for this, can we?

Why not? he fecked up as well in us finishing 6th

 

[Godfather]

If he doesn't want to play in the Europa then he shouldn't of moved to us when we was in fact in the Europa

To be honest when he joined we were just hiring Mourinho and everything looked way more positive for us.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Why not? he fecked up as well in us finishing 6th

He can't do it all and be a one man team. He was our best player last season but the other players around him weren't good enough. In an effective team he would flourish, like he did at Juve and the France team.

 

[VP89]

He can't do it all and be a one man team. He was our best player last season but the other players around him weren't good enough. In an effective team he would flourish, like he did at Juve and the France team.

He was our best player for 2 months. That's literally it.

 

[Lemansky]

We can't really blame him for this, can we?

We can. Him and the rest of our superstars sudden dip of form cost us CL. So he is taking no accountability for our situation. Pogbas behaviour is very disappointing.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

He can't do it all and be a one man team. He was our best player last season but the other players around him weren't good enough. In an effective team he would flourish, like he did at Juve and the France team.

Rashford's finishing season end, DDG chucking the ball into the net. A defence that cannot defend.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Losing the player who got Ole the job... not looking forward to next season at all.

 

[VP89]

Losing the player who got Ole the job... not looking forward to next season at all.

Oh nice so Ole did feck all and it must have been only Pogba?

 

[In Rainbows]

He was our best player for 2 months. That's literally it.

We really shouldn't have this discussion here anymore, but you're wrong. Him being inconsistent is better than being consistently crap like his teammates. It's amazing how we all feel we need 6 first team players to rebuild the side, yet expect Pogba to drag or not be affected by having awful teammates because other players who are performing well in well functioning sides do. It makes no logical sense. What matters is him being compared to his teammates, and he's still been a top 3 player for us at least. People need to stop using different standards when it comes to judging players if we're speaking on quality of player.

 

[VP89]

We really shouldn't have this discussion here anymore, but you're wrong. Him being inconsistent is better than being consistently crap like his teammates. It's amazing how we all feel we need 6 first team players to rebuild the side, yet expect Pogba to drag or not be affected by having awful teammates because other players who are performing well in well functioning sides do. It makes no logical sense. What matters is him being compared to his teammates, and he's still been a top 3 player for us at least. People need to stop using different standards when it comes to judging players if we're speaking on quality of player.

Except he hasn't. He was on the end of some good assists and provided himself between Dec and June. Then he fluctuated between OK and poor. Take the Barcelona fixtures (any one) or Newcastle with Shelvey running rings round him, or the infamous hands on hips performance against Huddersfield.

Overall he hadsnt been head and shoulders above his peers. When he performed amazingly so did Rashford and so did Matic. They just aren't the brand players (especially Matic) so they won't grab headlines. But their performances in their roles were fecking brilliant too. Stop boning over Pogba like he was consistently great. He wasn't. Far from it.

 

[Member 39557]

We really shouldn't have this discussion here anymore, but you're wrong. Him being inconsistent is better than being consistently crap like his teammates. It's amazing how we all feel we need 6 first team players to rebuild the side, yet expect Pogba to drag or not be affected by having awful teammates because other players who are performing well in well functioning sides do. It makes no logical sense. What matters is him being compared to his teammates, and he's still been a top 3 player for us at least. People need to stop using different standards when it comes to judging players if we're speaking on quality of player.

That argument would hold more sway if he pulled his weight when he had to do the basics. Stuff like following the man he's supposed to mark instead of watching them run past him.
Not pulling your weight defensively makes you an awful teammate.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Also if he didn't want to play EL, why didn't he just score more goals last season? His logic makes no sense.

@Josep Dowling

Yes maybe Pogba should blame himself for everything, while ignoring how crap all his teammates are.

 

[VP89]

Nobody said he was consistently great. We just think he wasn't consistently awful like his teammates. I take inconsistent any day over a consistently awful player. And the other players that were our best players are judged to a much lower standard than Pogba. Usually everyone admits to this fact because of wages and transfer fee. And that's fine, but don't bring that into a discussion when we're discussing who objectively our best players are. Shaw's great performances aren't world class performances. Lindelof's great performances aren't world class performances. Those were our 3 best players this season.

I think it's insane to think that a player needs to perform as consistently well as other players who are all playing for well functioning sides. He gets compared to our legends of the past who all played under the best manager with a squad far better than the one we currently have.

Not all teammates are consistently awful. Matic had a high the same time Pogba did. Lindelof was one of our most consistent performers over the course of the season. Rashfords peak form coincided with Pogba's too.

Young sure had a shit season throughout. As did Lingard. Most others had hit a purple patch during Xmas all the same as Pogba.

He's not compared against legends. His standalone performances are judged. You don't need to have star players around you to not jog around with your arse sticking out and hog the ball during poor periods of play. When he's great he's great. But it's noway near consistent enough. A dip of a month or even two can be palatable. But being below par for 6 months out of the 9? Feck right off