We are hypocrits of the highest order.

[AndySmith1990]

It's a bit of a leap from critical to considering if he should be sacked.

That is not debate, it's just ridiculous sensationalism that skews reasonable debate.

It's like saying Fox News stimulates debate. It's doesn't, it kills debate with hyperbole.

Past managers have been sacked for not reaching top 4, therefore it's a valid question to ask. Whether the contents is hyperbolic or not is a different matter

 

[Red Star One]

It's a bit of a leap from critical to considering if he should be sacked.

That is not debate, it's just ridiculous sensationalism that skews reasonable debate.

It's like saying Fox News stimulates debate. It's doesn't, it kills debate with hyperbole.

Is it really sensationalist to wonder whether he would keep his job if he anyhow fails to get the CL spot, considering all post-SAF managers would be sacked the moment the hope to play in the Champions League next season was gone?

I’m not saying “ETH is shite sack him now” stimulates debate, but to try to kill discussions on whether we’ve seen enough progress to give him more time should we bottle the CL strikes me as a little bit RAWKish.

 

[duffer]

There are thousands of posters on here, of course some are going to have extreme (or stupid) ideas.

The vast majority don't want Hag sacked.

 

[wolvored]

The club should bring in players, but Ten Hag shouldn't have full authority on who gets brought in.

I agree thats why i said a new managers first transfer window if hes just joined the club is buy and hope. If we had a competent dof who picked the manager on how he wants us to play, then the player selection would be better especially first window.

 

[Rozay]

In response to the ridiculous thread of potentially sacking EtH because we *might* lose out on Top 4. It got me thinking.

Arsenal may win the league after giving Arteta time to build a squad over what, maybe 3 maybe 4 transfer windows after 3 years and a bit? Finally looking like a team to challenge for the title. He may not do it this year but he's got pretty damn close. (That being said some of you mentalists would want him sacked if he didn't win the league). There's been a fair amount of people throughout the season praising Arsenal for how good they've been. Praised how good it has been to have patience and see a manager fully implement his style over a period of time.

Yet we were frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs to get EtH in and now a section of the fanbase want him sacked?! Nothing ever ceases to amaze me. So, what's going to happen? We get Nagelsmann in, we do well for a bit, miss out on top 4 and sack him too? Whilst still having the same players all the other managers have had? You can't gut the squad in one transfer window and then put a whole new one in.

Some of you crazy nutters want the whole structure above EtH gone and replaced and the whole squad replaced in what, 8 weeks of a transfer window? You're all living in FM manager video game world. It simply is not going to happen.

The whole thing just stinks of entitled fan who wants to throw his shiny new toy out his pram because he hasn’t got what he wants despite getting two shiny things (2 finals and a trophy) in the process. But because it’s not the FULL package it’s time to throw the baby out with the bath water!

Let EtH have time and in time we will get what we all want, but it won't happen in one season, and it certainly won't happen in 1 transfer window either. He doesn't have a magic wand to immediately make us title challengers.

You get a new manager in, and then what? He gets 2 or 3 of his players in, off loads 2 or 3 and then we're stuck with the majority of players the other managers have had. We take 5 months or so to fully implement their style. Go on a winning run and then go on a bad patch of form, miss out on top 4, no trophies and let's sack him too? We'll run out of managers and become a club no top manager wants to go to. Look at Spurs, look at Chelsea. No one of any real substance, or higher echelon of manager wants to go there anymore!

Where does signing and constantly playing Wout Weghorst fit into all of this? Is that one to just ‘trust the process’ about or whatever?

I don’t want the manager to be sacked, but the questions have come from some fecking baffling decisions and nothing else.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Where does signing and constantly playing Wout Weghorst fit into all of this? Is that one to just ‘trust the process’ about or whatever?

I don’t want the manager to be sacked, but the questions have come from some fecking baffling decisions and nothing else.

Get ready for the certain crowd to defend it.

It's indefensible, but they somehow still defend it.

 

[Slevs]

Please show me anyone who was backing Ole that wants Ten Hag gone now…you’ve completely made it up and it’s illogical.

Most were supporting Ole because they wanted to give him a chance to succeed, which obviously didn’t work out. There is no way these same people suddenly want to do the opposite to Ten Hag and sack him after less than a season, it’s complete rubbish.

Not to critize the below posters, but a simple 2 minute search shows I haven't made it up at all... Maybe stop claiming people have made up shit they've noticed (rightly or wrongly)?

We were better under Ole. Not last season

Voted "Yes" to the "Should ETH be sacked question if we don't get Top 4" thread

Miles better than Ole my arse.

Ole had Mcfred and Maguire Lindelof playing every week.

Same as above.

Again, this is not aimed as a criticism for the above posters for their opinions, everyone is entitled to their own. Just showing you what you wanted, even though I don't think I had to, just that I didn't like being accused of making up shit.

And I also was supporting Ole as I wanted him to succeed, I don't think anyone wasn't. But some people will shill their flavor of the month/obsession any chance they get (not accusing the above 2 of doing this, others have probably done this, cba finding posts). Its not "rubbish" if you follow some threads and see the patterns.

 

[RickRudesDong]

Can someone please explain to me why "supporting the club" implies having to believe in the current manager?

If I invest in, say, a renewable energy company (because they have a good business model and I believe in their mandate/vision) then I will buy some shares. My objective is now aligned with the company's: we both want the company to become more profitable over time whilst delivering on the vision.

So, if the performance of the company under the current CEO (an employee, by the way - not a heroic mythical figure) is underperforming, and I use some numerical reasoning to predict that the company will not maximise future profits by continuing under this employee, am I supposed to reach out to someone at the stock market and ask them to just arbitrarily bump the tracker up into the green - because I want them to - and also contact my school's math teacher and tell him that 2+2 doesn't equal 4 because 4 wouldn't be getting behind the CEO... ?

Nah, I'd just vote for the CEO to be replaced with someone better, to increase chances of success for the company.

...

So remind me, why do I have to get behind the manager if I don't believe in him?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Can we stop with Manager X was given time so give Manager Y the same time as argument points please.

People wanting EtH gone aren’t to be taken seriously but I could give 2 shots what amArteta has done at Arsenal we need to be looking at ourselves, EtH’s biggest handicap is the players we’ve coddled for years. We won’t do anything until we rid ourselves of certain mentalities, in the squad & fanbase.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Not to critize the below posters, but a simple 2 minute search shows I haven't made it up at all... Maybe stop claiming people have made up shit they've noticed (rightly or wrongly)?



Voted "Yes" to the "Should ETH be sacked question if we don't get Top 4" thread



Same as above.

Again, this is not aimed as a criticism for the above posters for their opinions, everyone is entitled to their own. Just showing you what you wanted, even though I don't think I had to, just that I didn't like being accused of making up shit.

And I also was supporting Ole as I wanted him to succeed, I don't think anyone wasn't. But some people will shill their flavor of the month/obsession any chance they get (not accusing the above 2 of doing this, others have probably done this, cba finding posts). Its not "rubbish" if you follow some threads and see the patterns.

I don't want him sacked right now. However if we blow top 4 and get hammered by City at Wembley I will do.

To not get top 4 when it's been an open goal all season given the struggles of others doesn't bode well for the future at all. If he doesn't make it this season I have no faith he will next season when Klopp gets Liverpool competitive again and Poch improves Chelsea. It will only get harder from here on in.

In short he simply has to get us over the line. Anything less will be huge failure

 

[Lentwood]

In response to the ridiculous thread of potentially sacking EtH because we *might* lose out on Top 4. It got me thinking.

Arsenal may win the league after giving Arteta time to build a squad over what, maybe 3 maybe 4 transfer windows after 3 years and a bit? Finally looking like a team to challenge for the title. He may not do it this year but he's got pretty damn close. (That being said some of you mentalists would want him sacked if he didn't win the league). There's been a fair amount of people throughout the season praising Arsenal for how good they've been. Praised how good it has been to have patience and see a manager fully implement his style over a period of time.

Yet we were frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs to get EtH in and now a section of the fanbase want him sacked?! Nothing ever ceases to amaze me. So, what's going to happen? We get Nagelsmann in, we do well for a bit, miss out on top 4 and sack him too? Whilst still having the same players all the other managers have had? You can't gut the squad in one transfer window and then put a whole new one in.

Some of you crazy nutters want the whole structure above EtH gone and replaced and the whole squad replaced in what, 8 weeks of a transfer window? You're all living in FM manager video game world. It simply is not going to happen.

The whole thing just stinks of entitled fan who wants to throw his shiny new toy out his pram because he hasn’t got what he wants despite getting two shiny things (2 finals and a trophy) in the process. But because it’s not the FULL package it’s time to throw the baby out with the bath water!

Let EtH have time and in time we will get what we all want, but it won't happen in one season, and it certainly won't happen in 1 transfer window either. He doesn't have a magic wand to immediately make us title challengers.

You get a new manager in, and then what? He gets 2 or 3 of his players in, off loads 2 or 3 and then we're stuck with the majority of players the other managers have had. We take 5 months or so to fully implement their style. Go on a winning run and then go on a bad patch of form, miss out on top 4, no trophies and let's sack him too? We'll run out of managers and become a club no top manager wants to go to. Look at Spurs, look at Chelsea. No one of any real substance, or higher echelon of manager wants to go there anymore!

I want to start by making it clear that I like ETH and that I absolutely do not want to see him sacked, regardless of where we finish.

However....

We should not be blinkered and absolve him of criticism. Fans are entitled to question his faith in Weghorst, his substitutions at key moments and his recent quotes about DDGs new contract.

IF we blow top four from here....personally I do feel like its on ETH. Our away record is not soke kind of blip/anamoly, its points to serious tactical/structural issues. We're trying to dominate games away from home with players simply not capable (mentally or technically) of doing that.

We basically needed one win from Brighton, Spurs or West Ham to all but seal top four. We have injuries and a makeshift back four ahead of a horrible GK. Why not just for once be pragmatic? Why not stick McTominay/Fred/Sabitzer in next to Casemiro, set up in a middle block and look to counter?

I appreciate he's a coach with strong principles and ideas but top four was/is so important this season. We might throw it away because we wont compromise on a system that leaves us very open and vulnerable at times

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I want to start by making it clear that I like ETH and that I absolutely do not want to see him sacked, regardless of where we finish.

However....

We should not be blinkered and absolve him of criticism. Fans are entitled to question his faith in Weghorst, his substitutions at key moments and his recent quotes about DDGs new contract.

IF we blow top four from here....personally I do feel like its on ETH. Our away record is not soke kind of blip/anamoly, its points to serious tactical/structural issues. We're trying to dominate games away from home with players simply not capable (mentally or technically) of doing that.

We basically needed one win from Brighton, Spurs or West Ham to all but seal top four. We have injuries and a makeshift back four ahead of a horrible GK. Why not just for once be pragmatic? Why not stick McTominay/Fred/Sabitzer in next to Casemiro, set up in a middle block and look to counter?

I appreciate he's a coach with strong principles and ideas but top four was/is so important this season. We might throw it away because we wont compromise on a system that leaves us very open and vulnerable at times

Ten Hag has compromised all season though. We don't press like his Ajax teams did. Nor do we build up from the back like he wants.

The bigger issue is his management in general since the cup final. It's been horrid.

 

[moses]

Past managers have been sacked for not reaching top 4, therefore it's a valid question to ask. Whether the contents is hyperbolic or not is a different matter

Valid hyperbole. Hmm.

 

[Dan_F]

Not to critize the below posters, but a simple 2 minute search shows I haven't made it up at all... Maybe stop claiming people have made up shit they've noticed (rightly or wrongly)?



Voted "Yes" to the "Should ETH be sacked question if we don't get Top 4" thread



Same as above.

Again, this is not aimed as a criticism for the above posters for their opinions, everyone is entitled to their own. Just showing you what you wanted, even though I don't think I had to, just that I didn't like being accused of making up shit.

And I also was supporting Ole as I wanted him to succeed, I don't think anyone wasn't. But some people will shill their flavor of the month/obsession any chance they get (not accusing the above 2 of doing this, others have probably done this, cba finding posts). Its not "rubbish" if you follow some threads and see the patterns.

Thats fair, but you were claiming people want Ten Hag sacked because he’s not Ole, like Ole has a **** following who want to cause trouble and sack managers. I don’t think that’s what those posters are saying at all. Don’t forget, at the time, the people wanting Ole to stay were being accused of supporting managers for too long.

I don’t think it’s a wild claim to sack Ten Hag if he doesn’t get top four, all other previous managers have been. I wouldn’t, but it would be an absolute disaster for the project and getting players to buy into his methods.

Basically, I think this is it for Ten Hag at United. If they don’t make top four, I’d be willing to put a large bet down on him not wining the Premier league or champions league.

 

[moses]

Is it really sensationalist to wonder whether he would keep his job if he anyhow fails to get the CL spot, considering all post-SAF managers would be sacked the moment the hope to play in the Champions League next season was gone?

I’m not saying “ETH is shite sack him now” stimulates debate, but to try to kill discussions on whether we’ve seen enough progress to give him more time should we bottle the CL strikes me as a little bit RAWKish.

Of course it's sensationalist. You know because not even the worst tabloid newspapers are leading with it.

As for the "only asking the question" defence, well done for emphasising the Fox News analogy.

 

[Freak]

There’s usually a balance in demanding standards to compete and giving a manager time. Our fans don’t seem to know where that balance is. Some just want to win NOW. Others always want managers to have more time no matter what. For me Ten Hag is the perfect manager who should be given more time as it’s clear he’s raising the standards. It’s his first season and he’s already won us a trophy and got us to a final of another competition.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Not to critize the below posters, but a simple 2 minute search shows I haven't made it up at all... Maybe stop claiming people have made up shit they've noticed (rightly or wrongly)?



Voted "Yes" to the "Should ETH be sacked question if we don't get Top 4" thread



Same as above.

Again, this is not aimed as a criticism for the above posters for their opinions, everyone is entitled to their own. Just showing you what you wanted, even though I don't think I had to, just that I didn't like being accused of making up shit.

And I also was supporting Ole as I wanted him to succeed, I don't think anyone wasn't. But some people will shill their flavor of the month/obsession any chance they get (not accusing the above 2 of doing this, others have probably done this, cba finding posts). Its not "rubbish" if you follow some threads and see the patterns.

Yes he should be sacked if we dont make top 4.
And I didn't want Ole even as an interim manager, he was god awful. ETH is obviously a far better manager and I admit it's still early days for but I'm not convinced yet.

 

[RedPed]

This fan base is full of entitled idiots.

I think it stems from years and years of continued success coupled with the FM mentality and seeing what other clubs do in similar situations.

In fairness, it is not just our fan base who behave like this but it would be manners to sack Ten Hag

100%.
"We're too good for the Europa League"
"Why is ten Hag playing a strong team in a Cup game"
"Not getting top 4 is a failure"
"Why can't we be like City?"

Considering what he's had to deal with this season, ten Hag has done very well. You only have to look at the Match Day and Performance threads to see just how unhinged some of these fans are.

 

[K Stand Knut]

100%.
"We're too good for the Europa League"
"Why is ten Hag playing a strong team in a Cup game"
"Not getting top 4 is a failure"
"Why can't we be like City?"

Considering what he's had to deal with this season, ten Hag has done very well. You only have to look at the Match Day and Performance threads to see just how unhinged some of these fans are.

The (mainly) online fan base is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as the ticketing thread!

EtH deserves to stay, even if we don’t get top 4. It’s not even up for debate, IMO.

We’ve had three successful signings and a pretty good season. The players are dead on their feet, which might be down to TH but he clearly doesn’t trust the other players.

Three additional successful signings and we take another slow step forward

 

[Bert_]

If we are so committed to our unsustainable model of no professional structure, no transfer committee, no DoF and very high positions like technical director handed to former players based on vibes/loyalty than their actual CV, what else do you expect? It's not the fault of ETH or any other manager that at United you're expected to be a saviour and a second coming of Sir Alex, responsible for getting right all the decisions ranging from transfers through set piece coaching to starting line-ups. The only way for the club to succeed with such a terrible structure is indeed to unearth a gem like Sir Alex that would be ready to take full responsibility and carry us with his genius and luck, but there's no second Six Alex. Either we adapt to modern circumstances and learn a thing or two from better-run clubs, or we will always be in this vicious cycle:
1. Hire a new manager, preferably with a different style to the previous one
2. Give him full authority over transfers and a giant transfer kitty
3. Enjoy the early ride
4. When stuff goes south, the sunk-cost fallacy kicks in "Oh but we invested 200m in his style and his players, we've gone too far as a group, we're too close, we can't give up now."
5. Try not to cut losses but eventually cut them later, sack the manager well too late
6. Rinse and repeat, until we find the new Sir Alex.

SAF wouldn't have stood a chance with our fan base today. You'll never see anyone like him again because the patience and long term thinking has gone. Instant gratification on a match by match basis is the only thing that will please some people. Probably just they can win their group chat for a weekend.

 

[Red Star One]

SAF wouldn't have stood a chance with our fan base today. You'll never see anyone like him again because the patience and long term thinking has gone. Instant gratification on a match by match basis is the only thing that will please some people. Probably just they can win their group chat for a weekend.

But I wouldn't blame just our fan base and it's not just a matter of patience. It's a completely different landscape now and when SAF took over. The man was a genius and singlehandedly brought us to success, but it does not mean we should try to replicate that. You no longer have omnipotent dictator managers like him in the game, it's high time (it was already 10 years ago) to embrace the change, build a solid structure, leave the transfer business to a transfer committee, not the manager, and stop treating the gaffer as the saviour solely responsible for getting United back on track.

 

[YikesSchmeics]

If you only judged United's fanbase by the online fans then we are the world club around.

The entitlement, moaning etc is next level and probably one of the factors that make United such a pressure cooker environment that sees good players shrink.

That said, the match going fans are generally very supportive, even for this group of players who have shown over and over again that they have a careless streak where they can have weeks or even months on end of turning up to matches without the required intensity to win games.

 

[Viral United]

Before start of season my expectation was top 4, And I had same expectation for all our previous managers.
If the question was ask before this season start I would have given same answer.
I have no problem with fans backing ETH, or our club don't sack him if he fail to reach top 4.
At the moment he has my full support and I wish we win enough games to reach top 4.

 

[Member 125398]

It's easy to be classy when we're winning everything under SAF

How long did it take him to build a winning squad?

 

[Siorac]

Some just want to win NOW.

It's worth noting that "winning NOW" in this context means securing Champions League qualification which 1) is supposed to be the bare minimum objective of the club, and 2) was basically an open goal all season considering the troubles of Liverpool and Chelsea. With less than a third of the season to go, we had a double digit advantage over Liverpool - it's not unreasonable to ask questions of the manager if we manage to throw that away at the end. No one demands instant success - fourth place is not a success, it's the minimum objective.

 

[jesperjaap]

In response to the ridiculous thread of potentially sacking EtH because we *might* lose out on Top 4. It got me thinking.

Arsenal may win the league after giving Arteta time to build a squad over what, maybe 3 maybe 4 transfer windows after 3 years and a bit? Finally looking like a team to challenge for the title. He may not do it this year but he's got pretty damn close. (That being said some of you mentalists would want him sacked if he didn't win the league). There's been a fair amount of people throughout the season praising Arsenal for how good they've been. Praised how good it has been to have patience and see a manager fully implement his style over a period of time.

Yet we were frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs to get EtH in and now a section of the fanbase want him sacked?! Nothing ever ceases to amaze me. So, what's going to happen? We get Nagelsmann in, we do well for a bit, miss out on top 4 and sack him too? Whilst still having the same players all the other managers have had? You can't gut the squad in one transfer window and then put a whole new one in.

Some of you crazy nutters want the whole structure above EtH gone and replaced and the whole squad replaced in what, 8 weeks of a transfer window? You're all living in FM manager video game world. It simply is not going to happen.

The whole thing just stinks of entitled fan who wants to throw his shiny new toy out his pram because he hasn’t got what he wants despite getting two shiny things (2 finals and a trophy) in the process. But because it’s not the FULL package it’s time to throw the baby out with the bath water!

Let EtH have time and in time we will get what we all want, but it won't happen in one season, and it certainly won't happen in 1 transfer window either. He doesn't have a magic wand to immediately make us title challengers.

You get a new manager in, and then what? He gets 2 or 3 of his players in, off loads 2 or 3 and then we're stuck with the majority of players the other managers have had. We take 5 months or so to fully implement their style. Go on a winning run and then go on a bad patch of form, miss out on top 4, no trophies and let's sack him too? We'll run out of managers and become a club no top manager wants to go to. Look at Spurs, look at Chelsea. No one of any real substance, or higher echelon of manager wants to go there anymore!

Completely agree it is ridiculous, some of these comments pointing the finger towards ETH, questioning him and calling for his head.

What I would say, is it is also ridiculous how lauded he has been, when he has only been at the club less than a season.

Both are making quick judgements on the manager in far to quicker time. Its the instant gratification culture good or bad.

I have liked ETH so far, he comes across as very driven, intelligent, tactically aware....but he has been far from perfect and I wont judge him for a season or two, its simply too early to know, we only have to look at recent history.

Mourinho one a Europa league and finished second and had a very good first transfer window. Ole did similar, there was a fanfare for both in different ways...neither ended well. We were terrible under Ragnick, but he had little time and a whole load more problematic players still here too, thought he actually spoke a lot of sense about the squad even though lacked as a manager.....and the main part, the finger needs to be pointed at our squad.....it does need major surgery as he rightly pointed out.

And I genuinely think this summer, will play a big part in Ten Hags future success, whether he is allowed to use this window as he wishes let alone IF he can see what needs to be done, the simple fact is there are still several players here that shouldnt be and a lot of them have been here for years.

Until a manager can come in and be ruthless in moving a lot of players on and making several purchases in one window, I fear they will all fail with this group. A lot of folly talk for me about ETH improving players and them performing under him, yet we are now out of form and players are reverting. We havent seen a GREAT season improvment wise really from any of them bar Shaw and for 4/5months of it Rashford.

DeGea, Dalot, Bissaka, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, Sancho, Maguire, Martial....bar short periods of form barely any of them have improved, yet play three good games in a row, they are good enough, nonsense. And I dont blame Ten Hag for that at all, some of these have been here years and are part of that contingent Keane name as players would let Ole down as past managers.

The fingers should be pointed at seveal of these players and our failure to move them on and buy well....but it shouldnt be pointed at ETH, that judgement should be reserved to see him put his imprint on the club. He has neither proved he is or isnt the man, its just a promising first season, I am hopeful with him to be the right man, not yet convinced though

 

[AshRK]

More than entitled I would say unrealistic and deluded. Most of our fan base overrate our players. When the season began many said not a good chance of top 4 and now when we may finish 4th suddenly narrative is why not title challenge.

And then add to the fact that shitw owners and board. Had they listened to ETH in June itself wr could have signed Antony for 50m but they dithered like they have done for a decade and now suddenly manager gets the blame but again little to no question asked from the board.

We have most of the same dud of players playing for us for years and yet the fans don't ask questions to them but say hey sack another manager and we will compete with city or Liverpool.

All I can delusion at its peak.

 

[AshRK]

It's worth noting that "winning NOW" in this context means securing Champions League qualification which 1) is supposed to be the bare minimum objective of the club, and 2) was basically an open goal all season considering the troubles of Liverpool and Chelsea. With less than a third of the season to go, we had a double digit advantage over Liverpool - it's not unreasonable to ask questions of the manager if we manage to throw that away at the end. No one demands instant success - fourth place is not a success, it's the minimum objective.

Asking questions and asking to be sacked are two different things.

 

[Sky1981]

How long did it take him to build a winning squad?

5 but i doubt he would last that long in modern era. And he was the prime prodigy back then fresh from winning the EC with fecking Aberdeen.

Any other manager would probably got the boot for selling paul Ince

 

[Bert_]

But I wouldn't blame just our fan base and it's not just a matter of patience. It's a completely different landscape now and when SAF took over. The man was a genius and singlehandedly brought us to success, but it does not mean we should try to replicate that. You no longer have omnipotent dictator managers like him in the game, it's high time (it was already 10 years ago) to embrace the change, build a solid structure, leave the transfer business to a transfer committee, not the manager, and stop treating the gaffer as the saviour solely responsible for getting United back on track.

Agreed. Times have changed and it's not all on the manager these days. They still tend to be the go to scape-goat though.

We're in an uncertain place ownership wise, have only just started to try to implement a modern hierarchy and have to work around sub-standard facilities. Not many managers would take on the job knowing that's what they have to deal with

 

[EliasRavelino]

I haven't read all the points on this thread or the other one that this is a response to but can I just make two points:

i) I have read on here previously that the reason managers get sacked at United so often in the post-fergie era is a legal thing - it is on their contract of employment that they must achieve qualification for the Champions League, it is non-negotiable.

ii) Having said that, if things do go pear shaped in the closing stages of the season and Liverpool do sneak into the top-4 at your expense, well I think that contract clause needs reviewing with urgency and for one specific reason: Jim Ratcliffe might be a big ETH fan (and the blokes from Qatar too) they may take a very dim view of ejecting Erik Ten Hag due to that contract stipulation and then the whole buy-out could be cast into doubt. Man Utd. should keep the stability of ETH even if the season is ultimately a disappointing one - they need stability at the Managerial level whilst there is such turmoil behind the scenes relating to club ownership.

P.S. I did read one post on the other thread suggesting United should have binned off the Carabou Cup and focused on more important goals and I just can't accept that point of view. It was vital to break the hoodoo of not winning a trophy since 2017 and it is important to remember this season has been remarkable in terms of the amount of matches played, too many if truth be told and it shouldn't happen again.

 

[Rood]

In response to the ridiculous thread of potentially sacking EtH because we *might* lose out on Top 4. It got me thinking.

Arsenal may win the league after giving Arteta time to build a squad over what, maybe 3 maybe 4 transfer windows after 3 years and a bit? Finally looking like a team to challenge for the title. He may not do it this year but he's got pretty damn close. (That being said some of you mentalists would want him sacked if he didn't win the league). There's been a fair amount of people throughout the season praising Arsenal for how good they've been. Praised how good it has been to have patience and see a manager fully implement his style over a period of time.

Yet we were frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs to get EtH in and now a section of the fanbase want him sacked?! Nothing ever ceases to amaze me. So, what's going to happen? We get Nagelsmann in, we do well for a bit, miss out on top 4 and sack him too? Whilst still having the same players all the other managers have had? You can't gut the squad in one transfer window and then put a whole new one in.

Some of you crazy nutters want the whole structure above EtH gone and replaced and the whole squad replaced in what, 8 weeks of a transfer window? You're all living in FM manager video game world. It simply is not going to happen.

The whole thing just stinks of entitled fan who wants to throw his shiny new toy out his pram because he hasn’t got what he wants despite getting two shiny things (2 finals and a trophy) in the process. But because it’s not the FULL package it’s time to throw the baby out with the bath water!

Let EtH have time and in time we will get what we all want, but it won't happen in one season, and it certainly won't happen in 1 transfer window either. He doesn't have a magic wand to immediately make us title challengers.

You get a new manager in, and then what? He gets 2 or 3 of his players in, off loads 2 or 3 and then we're stuck with the majority of players the other managers have had. We take 5 months or so to fully implement their style. Go on a winning run and then go on a bad patch of form, miss out on top 4, no trophies and let's sack him too? We'll run out of managers and become a club no top manager wants to go to. Look at Spurs, look at Chelsea. No one of any real substance, or higher echelon of manager wants to go there anymore!

Did this need a new thread? Could have posted this in the poll

Anyway only 14% say Yes so a small minority - always going to a few nutters in our vast fanbase, it was 25/30% then I might understand this kind of rant

 

[Lentwood]

Ten Hag has compromised all season though. We don't press like his Ajax teams did. Nor do we build up from the back like he wants.

The bigger issue is his management in general since the cup final. It's been horrid.

I would tend to agree. He has really struggled with squad management. He cost us the Sevilla and Spurs games with his subs and he's generally not been able to rotate without seeing results nosedive.

I accept that some of that is down to a lack of quality and depth, but they're still all international footballers. It shouldnt be the case that we're getting rolled over by teams like West Ham and Brighton simply because we have two first team players missing

 

[Kumar Abhishek]

It is fascinating to see the reasons being proposed for sacking EtH. Here's my take on the major arguments:

1. "He should be sacked for not getting top 4. That's the minimum requirement for a United manager." - Well ok but that's not what everyone was saying at the beginning of the season. Expectations for any season are 100% conditional on the last season. Had United finished in the top 4 last season, it would have been somewhat fair (although still debatable) to sack him after adding 4-5 signings this season and not achieving top 4. But that's not what happened. We had an unprecedentedly bad season last time out.

2. "Top 4 is an open goal this season. Look at how bad Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs have been this season." - Well ok but the only reason we are calling it an open goal is that we have done reasonably well up until the last month or so. We could quite easily have been one of Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs etc if EtH had done badly in the first half of the season.

3. "He should be fired for starting Weghorst alone." - I think that EtH knows WW's limitations quite well. That's one of the reasons why his move has not been made permanent. But there are certain elements in his game that EtH sees as useful. I don't think that EtH believes that WW is doing these things to a very high level. But the only alternative in this role is Martial who simply doesn't have the recovery to play so many games this close to each other. He will definitely play more now that we have longer timeframes to recover. I also don't believe that EtH pushed for WW's signing above everyone else. I think that once he saw the extremely short list of folks we could get in a bargain, WW seemed most risk-neutral.

4. "He can't be trusted to buy players. Spending 90m on Antony when we could have spread them around and bought a striker. The lack of personnel is his own doing." - this is bonkers. I think the price is definitely over the top for Antony but the negotiations 100% aren't down to EtH. I am sure that EtH must have asked to get Antony (who is not a bad player by any means). But pushing negotiations to the wire and overpaying are down to the negotiations folks not the manager. Especially as overpaying for transfers is a common theme across multiple managers.

5. "We can't even see a style of play." - well you have to find a way to win to stay long enough to instill your ideals as a modern manager. But even with that caveat, I think there are definitely clear patterns in United's play this season. For instance, for the first time in a long time, I can clearly see the value a center forward, a modern goalkeeper and a ball-playing midfielder can add to the current squad. This is how you build a squad over multiple windows. The profile of players is quite clear and over 2-3 windows we can definitely build a formidable squad.

I can see where some people are coming from. They look at City under Pep or Liverpool under Klopp and despair at our chances in the short to medium term. The only alternative seems to be to do a Conte with Chelsea kind of situation (spend money on players and hope for a short term miracle under a good to great manager found after multiple trial and error hirings). But I don't know. That doesn't seem to be the kind of United I want to see. For better or for worse, our history is about finding a long term project. I think there is some romance in that.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Yeah, but how else are the OPs and others like him supposed to feel like the toppest of reds and best at being logical if they don't exaggerate?

Really? I know I been accused of being a "top red" throughout Ole's era and seemingly now EtH's era. But my god, what ever happened to supporting the manager (and the team) and having a decorum of patience? This whole debate has started because we're having squeaky bum time with Top 4. Yet if we'd had won, no one would have blinked an eye or even had this discussion. That's why I get so passionate about supporting the manager and the club through thick and thin. The constant knee jerk reactions to everything. Didn't get what we want? SACK THE MANAGER!

It's preposterous and I say it all the time. This club is filled with entitled fans. You'd think they'd be accustomed to losing nowadays. We are no longer the force we once were. Football is cyclical and it's ridiculous to think we'd be the dominant force all the time. Yet by some of the reactions on here to a loss, you'd think we were prime United dominating football the world over. But we aren't. We haven't been for over a decade. We were on the decline before Fergie left.

People need to wake up and smell reality we're a "maybe" team now and we're in a constant cycle of rebuilding because we keep hiring and firing managers. It's time we stuck with a world class manager and give him the time he needs to get us back to where we were.

Heck it took Pep 2 silverware and that was with a rich oil daddy providing him with cash. Something we don't have so it's going to take longer. It took Klopp 4 years and all he's got is a UCL and a PL to show for it. So much for being one of the bets managers around. When you look at it, for all the plaudits he's had. What has he actually won? Does he really deserve all that praise? Probably not. Constant dissapointment and losing out to City.

The thread you reference shows the vast majority don't want him sacked even if we blow top 4.

It's fine to be critical of Ten Hag. Why can't some people get that into their heads? Anyone who starts flailing their arms about and crying when someone dare suggest a United manager may not be perfect, well they should get a grip and grow up. All you do is stifle debate

I'd be surprised if all those that wanted him sacked voted as well as posted. As I saw a fair few posts from people wanting him gone, it weren't few and far between.

 

[Speedicut75]

Really? I know I been accused of being a "top red" throughout Ole's era and seemingly now EtH's era. But my god, what ever happened to supporting the manager (and the team) and having a decorum of patience? This whole debate has started because we're having squeaky bum time with Top 4. Yet if we'd had won, no one would have blinked an eye or even had this discussion. That's why I get so passionate about supporting the manager and the club through thick and thin. The constant knee jerk reactions to everything. Didn't get what we want? SACK THE MANAGER!

It's preposterous and I say it all the time. This club is filled with entitled fans. You'd think they'd be accustomed to losing nowadays. We are no longer the force we once were. Football is cyclical and it's ridiculous to think we'd be the dominant force all the time. Yet by some of the reactions on here to a loss, you'd think we were prime United dominating football the world over. But we aren't. We haven't been for over a decade. We were on the decline before Fergie left.

People need to wake up and smell reality we're a "maybe" team now and we're in a constant cycle of rebuilding because we keep hiring and firing managers. It's time we stuck with a world class manager and give him the time he needs to get us back to where we were.

Heck it took Pep 2 silverware and that was with a rich oil daddy providing him with cash. Something we don't have so it's going to take longer. It took Klopp 4 years and all he's got is a UCL and a PL to show for it. So much for being one of the bets managers around. When you look at it, for all the plaudits he's had. What has he actually won? Does he really deserve all that praise? Probably not. Constant dissapointment and losing out to City.


I'd be surprised if all those that wanted him sacked voted as well as posted. As I saw a fair few posts from people wanting him gone, it weren't few and far between.

Now you're reaching a bit. You're making assumptions to fit some sort of narrative, even when the stats. suggest otherwise.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Now you're reaching a bit. You're making assumptions to fit some sort of narrative, even when the stats. suggest otherwise.

I'm spitballing, I'm just thinking out loud.

Heck, on some polls I vote and don't post. Some people post and then not vote. It's not too far outside the realms of possiblity for that to happen.

At the end of the day, the smallest minority have the loudest voices and it's good to discuss when those things being said are totally and utterly ridiculous.

 

[Red Star One]

People need to wake up and smell reality we're a "maybe" team now and we're in a constant cycle of rebuilding because we keep hiring and firing managers.

This is perhaps why many would have such different opinions in threads like this. I don't think we are in a constant cycle of rebuilding because we keep hiring and firing managers, which is quite a normal practice across the majority of top clubs in the world, but primarily because of the management structure, zero long-term vision, lack of accountability at the top and their failures to address main problems of the club.

 

[sokol11]

Far from sacking ETH but he carries some of the blame for performances like yesterday. From minute 1 yesterday the team wasn't at the races. West Ham sit back and invited United on. We didn't have smallest of clue how to open them up. Wout without any impact and not suited to how West Ham set up no idea why he started with him. Malacia very poor. Eriksen ineffective, gassed. Bruno was needed in the center to provide energy with additional winger on sides. Don't know why Dalot wasn't starting or introduced earlier. Pelestri? Why not? When you see Malacia is poor and we have no penetration and we needed some more physical presence to match Antonio put Maguire on or Casemiro on CB, Bruno/Sabitzer in the middle and most importantly Shaw/Rashford on the left. Dalot on the right. Maybe get some penetration in that way. But nonetheless I was shocked by the whole team performance. Basics weren't there. Simple tasks. Pass, move, control the ball, more urgency etc. I don't know what was the cause but next game is a must win. And we don't perform well under the pressure lately. Liverpool plays Leicester that are playing for their EPL status and Aston Villa could give us some help. Because their last game will be a non event Southampton will already be relegated by then. Wolverhampton has nothing to play for, safe from relegation if we don't turn them over we don't deserve top 4.

 

[cheekybackheel]

You would rather Pellestri or Garnacho (who is literally just coming back from a prolonged period) play over Weghorst?

Yes.
What difference would it make? We're losing anyway!
Might as well give it a crack.