We are hypocrits of the highest order.

UnitedSofa

You'll Never Walk Away
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
8,070
In response to the ridiculous thread of potentially sacking EtH because we *might* lose out on Top 4. It got me thinking.

Arsenal may win the league after giving Arteta time to build a squad over what, maybe 3 maybe 4 transfer windows after 3 years and a bit? Finally looking like a team to challenge for the title. He may not do it this year but he's got pretty damn close. (That being said some of you mentalists would want him sacked if he didn't win the league). There's been a fair amount of people throughout the season praising Arsenal for how good they've been. Praised how good it has been to have patience and see a manager fully implement his style over a period of time.

Yet we were frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs to get EtH in and now a section of the fanbase want him sacked?! Nothing ever ceases to amaze me. So, what's going to happen? We get Nagelsmann in, we do well for a bit, miss out on top 4 and sack him too? Whilst still having the same players all the other managers have had? You can't gut the squad in one transfer window and then put a whole new one in.

Some of you crazy nutters want the whole structure above EtH gone and replaced and the whole squad replaced in what, 8 weeks of a transfer window? You're all living in FM manager video game world. It simply is not going to happen.

The whole thing just stinks of entitled fan who wants to throw his shiny new toy out his pram because he hasn’t got what he wants despite getting two shiny things (2 finals and a trophy) in the process. But because it’s not the FULL package it’s time to throw the baby out with the bath water!

Let EtH have time and in time we will get what we all want, but it won't happen in one season, and it certainly won't happen in 1 transfer window either. He doesn't have a magic wand to immediately make us title challengers.

You get a new manager in, and then what? He gets 2 or 3 of his players in, off loads 2 or 3 and then we're stuck with the majority of players the other managers have had. We take 5 months or so to fully implement their style. Go on a winning run and then go on a bad patch of form, miss out on top 4, no trophies and let's sack him too? We'll run out of managers and become a club no top manager wants to go to. Look at Spurs, look at Chelsea. No one of any real substance, or higher echelon of manager wants to go there anymore!
 
You have to take into account some posters (other than rival fans who love to banter) want ETH gone cause he's not Ole/Poch. Nowadays, there's like a cult following some managers around and this cult will do absolutely everything to throw shit at the current manager cause their favorite isn't in his place.
 
some people just can't wait to see things crash and burn

probably a coping mechanism as it won't hurt so much when it happens :lol:
 
All these posts about some people.

it’s nothing to do with being a Poch fan or wanting the world to burn.

Some (most of the football posters) don’t know what it means to support a football team.

That is it.
 
This fan base is full of entitled idiots.

I think it stems from years and years of continued success coupled with the FM mentality and seeing what other clubs do in similar situations.

In fairness, it is not just our fan base who behave like this but it would be manners to sack Ten Hag
 
K Stand Knut said:
This fan base is full of entitled idiots.

I think it stems from years and years of continued success coupled with the FM mentality and seeing what other clubs do in similar situations.

In fairness, it is not just our fan base who behave like this but it would be manners to sack Ten Hag
Click to expand...

Bad manners IMO.

But yeah, our fanbase (especially online) is full of idiots. As are most football fans. Video games and social media has completely warped what people expect from football.

It used to be about supporting a club that you passionately loved and looked to support on a Saturday with your family and mates. Now, people are genuinely more interested in potential signings, bantering with rival fans over stupid points and saying which subs they’d make twenty minutes into a game they’re barely watching.
 
BootsyCollins said:
Of course we are, we are footballfans.
Click to expand...

Being a football fan and being a hypocrite should look like you giving slightly more leeway and positive vibes to your own club compared to others.

I’ve been a hypocrite when I’ve sat in a pub bugging up Brandon Williams and insulted Nketiah.

it doesn’t mean you slate your own team, go back on your morals and constantly change your standards based on the last two games.

Well it shouldn’t do.
 
Wumminator said:
Being a football fan and being a hypocrite should look like you giving slightly more leeway and positive vibes to your own club compared to others.

I’ve been a hypocrite when I’ve sat in a pub bugging up Brandon Williams and insulted Nketiah.

it doesn’t mean you slate your own team, go back on your morals and constantly change your standards based on the last two games.

Well it shouldn’t do.
Click to expand...
There are fans and there are supporters. Lots of people want our team to be better but are not prepared to be better themselves. Fortunately, the vast majority that go to games isn't like that.
 
I don't think he should be sacked, he's done enough to deserve another season, but it's not just about potentially missing top 4. It's the manner of the collapse and some of the team selections.

Good point about Arteta. A lot of Arsenal fans were calling for his head last year also. But even Arteta wouldn't move Odegard out of position to accommodate a Burnley reject, who contributes NOTHING to the team.

He needs to be held account for his persistence with Weghorst. And it's not just because "we don't have any other CFs" because he's played him as a 10 numerous times also, shifting Bruno to the wing to accommodate this.

Play a relegation standard player in a pivotal attacking role and expect to play Champions League football at the end of it? Nah sorry, that won't work.
 
You probably need to change the title heading from 'We' to 'Some', as not all fans want him gone.

I dont want ETH gone, but like a lot of fans, I am questioning some of his decision making, especially team selection in certain games. Games like last night for example, with this insistence on playing Weghorst up front (and not for the first time)

It's obvious to many that we're running on empty and yet we have two young lads chomping at the bit in Garnacho and Pellistri, who could at the very least, install some pace back into the attack.

If ETH thinks that, somehow, Weghorst is going to turn into this goal machine all of sudden, then he's deluded. If it was going to have happened it would have done so by now. Its like me in my 50s looking down at my old chap hoping it's going to be a few inches longer one morning.

Sacked? No, needs a few more seasons. But he must learn and learn fast. The Prem waits for no-one.
 
Wumminator said:
Being a football fan and being a hypocrite should look like you giving slightly more leeway and positive vibes to your own club compared to others.

I’ve been a hypocrite when I’ve sat in a pub bugging up Brandon Williams and insulted Nketiah.

it doesn’t mean you slate your own team, go back on your morals and constantly change your standards based on the last two games.

Well it shouldn’t do.
Click to expand...
It absolutly shouldn´t, but it does.
We have a large fanbase, it will always be people with knee-jerk reactions to even the most absurd things.

Now, when we live in a world where a mistake on a football pitch is a meme within seconds and thousand of kids post it for laughs on social media, those knee-jerk reactions will be multiplied times a hundred. Some "fans" will then hop on the train, because that what social media does.

Pay them no mind, Ten Haag will make us champions sooner than later. With or without CL next year.
 
UnitedSofa said:
You get a new manager in, and then what? He gets 2 or 3 of his players in, off loads 2 or 3 and then we're stuck with the majority of players the other managers have had. We take 5 months or so to fully implement their style. Go on a winning run and then go on a bad patch of form, miss out on top 4, no trophies and let's sack him too? We'll run out of managers and become a club no top manager wants to go to. Look at Spurs, look at Chelsea. No one of any real substance, or higher echelon of manager wants to go there anymore!
Click to expand...
If we are so committed to our unsustainable model of no professional structure, no transfer committee, no DoF and very high positions like technical director handed to former players based on vibes/loyalty than their actual CV, what else do you expect? It's not the fault of ETH or any other manager that at United you're expected to be a saviour and a second coming of Sir Alex, responsible for getting right all the decisions ranging from transfers through set piece coaching to starting line-ups. The only way for the club to succeed with such a terrible structure is indeed to unearth a gem like Sir Alex that would be ready to take full responsibility and carry us with his genius and luck, but there's no second Six Alex. Either we adapt to modern circumstances and learn a thing or two from better-run clubs, or we will always be in this vicious cycle:
1. Hire a new manager, preferably with a different style to the previous one
2. Give him full authority over transfers and a giant transfer kitty
3. Enjoy the early ride
4. When stuff goes south, the sunk-cost fallacy kicks in "Oh but we invested 200m in his style and his players, we've gone too far as a group, we're too close, we can't give up now."
5. Try not to cut losses but eventually cut them later, sack the manager well too late
6. Rinse and repeat, until we find the new Sir Alex.
 
cheekybackheel said:
You probably need to change the title heading from 'We' to 'Some', as not all fans want him gone.

I dont want ETH gone, but like a lot of fans, I am questioning some of his decision making, especially team selection in certain games. Games like last night for example, with this insistence on playing Weghorst up front (and not for the first time)

It's obvious to many that we're running on empty and yet we have two young lads chomping at the bit in Garnacho and Pellistri, who could at the very least, install some pace back into the attack.

If ETH thinks that, somehow, Weghorst is going to turn into this goal machine all of sudden, then he's deluded. If it was going to have happened it would have done so by now. Its like me in my 50s looking down at my old chap hoping it's going to be a few inches longer one morning.

Sacked? No, needs a few more seasons. But he must learn and learn fast. The Prem waits for no-one.
Click to expand...

You would rather Pellestri or Garnacho (who is literally just coming back from a prolonged period) play over Weghorst?
 
No idea why people think that.

The squad is full of dross, he needs another 2 or 3 windows to ship them all out and bring in players that suit his style.

In my opinion, it takes about 2/3 years to build a team to get them gelled and playing together in sync. Then you get another 2 or 3 years before you have to start rebuilding and replacing players to keep it going. This is why Klopp's 7th season has always been a mess, and why he's now struggling beyond that at Liverpool. He hasn't been able to bring in players of the required quality to keep up the same levels.

ETH needs another 2 seasons at least, if after the third year there's no serious challenges, then you look at replacing him.
 
It's not about being hypocrites. The avg human is pretty thick all things considered and the beauty of avg is that half the twats are below even that level.

Is it any wonder we see takes that are like steaming hot turd? Not really
 
Firing the manager doesn't work anyway, unless he is a complete dud and the team hates him there is no point in doing it. Don't believe me? Ask Chelsea fans how much they improved under 2 new managers this season, or Bayern fans how well firing Nagelsmann worked out for them.

The key for us needs to build a structure that is capable of building a team that can perform no matter who the manager is, just look at Brighton they weren't in the slightest disrupted by hiring a new manager because they lost their old one to Chelsea, why? Because they have a great structure in place that brings in the right players for their desired football style.

I have been saying this for years, as long as we don't fix that part of our club, no manager in the world will succeed here.
 
I’m absolutely certain we have the right manager. Should he be sacked for picking Weghorst? That’s more on the owners than the manager.

I’m interested to see how we do in the last few games, how long has it been since we didn’t have three games in a week? When was the last time ETH had a week on the training pitch with these players? From November to end of February we actually looked like a proper team.

Lastly some of these players have a very questionable attitude, we are here at the end of every season. With Varane and Martinez it seemed to galvanise the team, those two were clearly responsible for the team spirit. Players high fiving each other for defending a cross. Dalot became a warrior now he’s returned to being a bit vanilla. The leader on the pitch constantly moans at everyone else and we have half a team of wimps and people feeling sorry for themselves.

Give ETH time to bring his players in, he’s done a remarkable job with this bunch already.
 
Well, I'm in no way advocating the sacking of Ten Hag, I said last summer that 90% of these players should be gone.

But we shouldn't compare ourselves to Arsenal, for some reason we get held to different standards (media, opposition fans, our fans etc) - look at the two players that have done unspeakable things, they had him available playing, helping them on their push to the title whilst we've had to loan a proven PL failed Burnley striker because we couldn't possibly do the same.
 
Tbf 85% of the forum don't want ETH sacked if he misses out on top four. So there's no "we" there, it's "they".
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
I don't think he should be sacked, he's done enough to deserve another season, but it's not just about potentially missing top 4. It's the manner of the collapse and some of the team selections.

Good point about Arteta. A lot of Arsenal fans were calling for his head last year also. But even Arteta wouldn't move Odegard out of position to accommodate a Burnley reject, who contributes NOTHING to the team.

He needs to be held account for his persistence with Weghorst. And it's not just because "we don't have any other CFs" because he's played him as a 10 numerous times also, shifting Bruno to the wing to accommodate this.

Play a relegation standard player in a pivotal attacking role and expect to play Champions League football at the end of it? Nah sorry, that won't work.
Click to expand...
I'd honestly have given Charlie McNeil a run out or try Garnacho down the middle. I love WW's attitude, passion and work rate: he'd have made an OK squad member in 1999 (giving Keano a rest at 4-0 up and 10 mins to go!). But, let's be honest: he's only scored two goals more than me and everyone else here!

There has to be a bigger problem at the club than is being discussed if we don't have a centre forward in the academy who can at least be given a chance as rashford was all those years ago.

But sacking ETH? We might as well all start supporting Leeds...
 
I’ve seen very few posters calling for him to be sacked. Most recognise he has done a good job in difficult circumstances, although the recent slump is worrying.

There’s no problem with subjecting his decisions to critical scrutiny. It’s healthier than wasting three years by promoting a cult around the manager and endlessly harking back to ”Ta Ra Fergie” in 1989.
 
webbthepostie said:
There are fans and there are supporters. Lots of people want our team to be better but are not prepared to be better themselves. Fortunately, the vast majority that go to games isn't like that.
Click to expand...

Most of them are the same guys that post here. They just happens to be bound by some ancient code to support the club at all times inside the stadium.

The same fans will no doubt badmouthing players, sack eth sell anthony in the forum or in the pub.

We're no angels. Just football fans.

It's easy to be classy when we're winning everything under SAF
 
Slevs said:
You have to take into account some posters (other than rival fans who love to banter) want ETH gone cause he's not Ole/Poch. Nowadays, there's like a cult following some managers around and this cult will do absolutely everything to throw shit at the current manager cause their favorite isn't in his place.
Click to expand...

Please show me anyone who was backing Ole that wants Ten Hag gone now…you’ve completely made it up and it’s illogical.

Most were supporting Ole because they wanted to give him a chance to succeed, which obviously didn’t work out. There is no way these same people suddenly want to do the opposite to Ten Hag and sack him after less than a season, it’s complete rubbish.
 
sullydnl said:
Tbf 85% of the forum don't want ETH sacked if he misses out on top four. So there's no "we" there, it's "they".
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely. But some people want to berate others, pointing out imagined weaknesses when the vast majority are lucid and balanced. Says more about them, and their lack of tolerance, than it does about the body of fans, even those of the "fair weather" variety who populate the online forums.
 
yumtum said:
Well, I'm in no way advocating the sacking of Ten Hag, I said last summer that 90% of these players should be gone.

But we shouldn't compare ourselves to Arsenal, for some reason we get held to different standards (media, opposition fans, our fans etc) - look at the two players that have done unspeakable things, they had him available playing, helping them on their push to the title whilst we've had to loan a proven PL failed Burnley striker because we couldn't possibly do the same.
Click to expand...
mitchmouse said:
I'd honestly have given Charlie McNeil a run out or try Garnacho down the middle. I love WW's attitude, passion and work rate: he'd have made an OK squad member in 1999 (giving Keano a rest at 4-0 up and 10 mins to go!). But, let's be honest: he's only scored two goals more than me and everyone else here!

There has to be a bigger problem at the club than is being discussed if we don't have a centre forward in the academy who can at least be given a chance as rashford was all those years ago.

But sacking ETH? We might as well all start supporting Leeds...
Click to expand...

How many clubs in the premier league have a youngster on the bench who is good enough to score 120 league goals in decent standards of top divisions and play over 20 times for Holland?

Is Wout Weghorst good enough? Absolutely not.
Will any of our current reserve players have a good of a career as Wout? They’ll be lucky.
 
Some of our fans somehow manage to achieve new levels of embarrassment with each passing week. It's a specialist skilp set they possess that must take a level of dedication few of us are capable of.
 
Wumminator said:
All these posts about some people.

it’s nothing to do with being a Poch fan or wanting the world to burn.

Some (most of the football posters) don’t know what it means to support a football team.

That is it.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
MoskvaRed said:
I’ve seen very few posters calling for him to be sacked. Most recognise he has done a good job in difficult circumstances, although the recent slump is worrying.

There’s no problem with subjecting his decisions to critical scrutiny. It’s healthier than wasting three years by promoting a cult around the manager and endlessly harking back to ”Ta Ra Fergie” in 1989.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but how else are the OPs and others like him supposed to feel like the toppest of reds and best at being logical if they don't exaggerate?
 
I do wonder if it's the younger generation of fans (below 30) who are clamouring for instant success or who get agitated and reactionary when we lose. I get the knee jerk reactions to an extent, but the doom and gloom mentality is toxic.
 
I for one definitely want ETH to stay as our manager.

But i'm not being hypocritical if I don't agree with his starting eleven yesterday and say it.

Wout and Malacia should not have started as Wout only runs around like a headless chicken with no contribution and Malacia is still inexperienced for the PL level.
Malacia also has a tendency to stray up the pitch and forget about his direct winger - this has happened when he plays.

The striking trio could have been Antony Rashford Sancho with the wingers trying to open up West Ham although both Antony and Sancho don't do this much but it's better than playing Wout.

No CL will be problematic for ETH next season.
 
I don’t want ETH sacked and of course he won’t be sacked but I don’t think that the idea of him being sacked is ridiculous. For every Arteta there’s loads of managers who have had time and failed anyways. Chelsea for example have never given time to their managers but still won a lot. So there’s no definite right way of doing things. You need a clarity of thought at the top of the club and those people making the decisions should be able to analyse if something’s working or not
 
The thread you reference shows the vast majority don't want him sacked even if we blow top 4.

It's fine to be critical of Ten Hag. Why can't some people get that into their heads? Anyone who starts flailing their arms about and crying when someone dare suggest a United manager may not be perfect, well they should get a grip and grow up. All you do is stifle debate
 
I think this forum might also have kids perhaps early teens on here. The me generation who want it all NOW! For me unless he has been a mitigating disaster like Moyes, a manager should be given at least 2 seasons as the first season hes coming in cold and his first transfer window is buy and hope they fit.
As long as TH is given backing to bring in new players and ship a load out he should improve next season. We need a strong bench 16/17 players of roughly the same quality and definitely need 2 strikers this summer imo. The fact we cant score enough goals has actually plagued every manager since Fergie
 
I think it's the disappointment of potentially missing out on top 4, when we were comfortable, we have 3 home games and our home form has been good.

I still expect us to beat Bournemouth and wolves, so one result needed against Chelsea/Fulham at home should be enough.
 
wolvored said:
I think this forum might also have kids perhaps early teens on here. The me generation who want it all NOW! For me unless he has been a mitigating disaster like Moyes, a manager should be given at least 2 seasons as the first season hes coming in cold and his first transfer window is buy and hope they fit.
As long as TH is given backing to bring in new players and ship a load out he should improve next season. We need a strong bench 16/17 players of roughly the same quality and definitely need 2 strikers this summer imo. The fact we cant score enough goals has actually plagued every manager since Fergie
Click to expand...

The club should bring in players, but Ten Hag shouldn't have full authority on who gets brought in.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
The thread you reference shows the vast majority don't want him sacked even if we blow top 4.

It's fine to be critical of Ten Hag. Why can't some people get that into their heads? Anyone who starts flailing their arms about and crying when someone dare suggest a United manager may not be perfect, well they should get a grip and grow up. All you do is stifle debate
Click to expand...


It's a bit of a leap from critical to considering if he should be sacked.

That is not debate, it's just ridiculous sensationalism that skews reasonable debate.

It's like saying Fox News stimulates debate. It's doesn't, it kills debate with hyperbole.
 
Nice little circlejerk you've got yourselves going here.

Doesn't change the fact we've been hammered by our main rivals at historic levels this season (forget the 7-0, two City players scored hattricks in the same game) and are on track to bottle top 4.

The people circlejerking in this thread were some of the same ones making threads to support the previous permanent loser manager and would not take an alternative view even as a consideration and yet you claim that others are 'idiots'.

Maybe take a breather and think if your 'support' is not another case of delusion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.