We aren't great, but let's not pretend....

[Nicoseth]

I missed the game yesterday and have only seen extended highlights. Can anybody tell me why Dan James was getting stick from apparent supporters? Any particular reason for it or was he just judged to have had a poor game? He took his goal brilliantly and 2 goals from 3 games from a player that many thought would be a squad option isn't bad! From what I could see, and granted it's only from the 20 minutes or so of highlights I think the reaction to the result is way over the top. When I saw the score I had the FFS reaction that I'm sure many had but I honestly feel like this is just a bump in the road. If we had scored the penalty and De Gea does his job at the end we win. I know it's all ifs and buts but the point is the result could easily have been different. We'll bounce back from this. Can't wait for next Saturday.

 

[gr3yham3]

A lot of conformation bias is on play. Posters will tell i Chelsea result flattered us but lays into this team based on a game that we fully deserved to not only win but comfortably so as well.
Martial is playing well in the number 9, we've had two pens won by oir midfielders getting ahead of the ball with overlapping fullbacks that's getting to the byline.
Keep playing like this and Ill be pleased.

Agreed, though the results are frustrating. Still lack a real creative hub/goal threat in the no.10 position though - that's the biggest problem we have for now.
We just need to start putting chances away and get on a run of of a few wins in a row to help boost the confidence of some of the players.

 

[90 + 5min]

3 in 15 is pretty bad.

Do we have injuries on 5 or more players coming back?
Does ole changes his formation?
Does we purchase neymar or messi?

Bottom line is there's not much change this season and last season. What makes you think the result is going to change much?

Same manager, a better defence granted, but i dont expect things to suddenly clicks. We did nothing but expect everything.

Can people stop with that? Absolute nonsens! Why not take every game with Solskjaer as manager? Why jump over pre season? Taking facts out of context and putting them to suit own agenda is easy.

 

[Ekeke]

Pretending would be suggesting we werent lucky against Chelsea when they hit the frame of the goal twice. Wolves once as well. Palace messed up a great chance just after the first goal.

We arent great? Agreed. We aren't good right now either.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Honestly the loss against CP was unlucky. The team didn't play awful, and we were showing a lot of things that were solely missing last season, like putting up a fight for one.

The truth remains we left quite a few positions without any improvement, especially in midfield and on the right wing and it will show in terms of defensive stability and our ability to break defensive teams down effectively.

Despite the mixed start I'm still positive about the direction we are heading right now, we just need to get more stable in terms of results and maybe start practicing penalties.

The draw with Wolves was "unlucky". The loss vs Crystal Palace was "unlucky".

Dont think so mate. There are a number of problems yesterday. 2 s.w spring to mind.

Number 1 is lack of creativity, consistency and quality in midfield and attack. This is down to the lack of investment last 2 Summer windows. How many of our players would start for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or even City/Liverpool?

Number 2 was playing 2 holding midfielders and counter attack against palace who parked the bus.

 

[M Bison]

The draw with Wolves was "unlucky". The loss vs Crystal Palace was "unlucky".

Dont think so mate. There are a number of problems yesterday. 2 s.w spring to mind.

Number 1 is lack of creativity, consistency and quality in midfield and attack. This is down to the lack of investment last 2 Summer windows. How many of our players would start for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or even City/Liverpool?

Number 2 was playing 2 holding midfielders and counter attack against palace who parked the bus.

I don’t think they were the problems yesterday. Conceding 2 goals at home against an average side is very poor. Following the summer investment in our defence you’d expect much better, the first goal in particular. The second, our (apparent) best and only world class player lost the ball far too easily and the keeper was beaten too easily.

Whilst we all agree we need more creativity and to be better in the final 3rd, we should no way be conceding 2 goals at home to a side who could well be in the relegation battle.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I don’t think they were the problems yesterday. Conceding 2 goals at home against an average side is very poor. Following the summer investment in our defence you’d expect much better, the first goal in particular. The second, our (apparent) best and only world class player lost the ball far too easily and the keeper was beaten too easily.

Whilst we all agree we need more creativity and to be better in the final 3rd, we should no way be conceding 2 goals at home to a side who could well be in the relegation battle.

You're making the mistake of assuming that we are not an average side. Like we are somehow above those levels. Think again. Like I said, how many of our current players would make those elite sides I mentioned?

 

[King7Eric]

Pretending would be suggesting we werent lucky against Chelsea when they hit the frame of the goal twice. Wolves once as well. Palace messed up a great chance just after the first goal.

We arent great? Agreed. We aren't good right now either.

If Wolves would have scored from the free kick that hit the post, then Neves wouldn't have scored because the corner from which he eventually scored, was earned from the clearance to that hit on the post. That Palace great chance was offside, and would have been given so by the VAR had they scored, the linesman for some reason missed it.

Against, Chelsea unquestionably we did not deserve to win 4-0 and they were the better side in the 1st half, just as we were in the 2nd. So if you want to take a balanced view, do so with all the facts.

 

[ivaldo]

I ask this in a genuine way, but what do you believe is our clearly defined style of play? I feel like we play slow, probing football without any bite. Off the ball we look quite passive bar fleeting moments. No aggression.

What happened to this pressing football we were gearing up for? What happened to our fitness when we seemed to be second to every loose ball in the second half of both our last 2 games?

We're a weird team right now. We're not as bad as last year in that we do apply some pressure to opponents in attack for small periods of time. Yet we still feel completely blunt in attack.

We're lacking creativity. But our increased workrate is there for all to see. We want to overturn the ball high up and transition quickly. Against a team like Palace, who were happy to sit on the edge of their own box for most of the game, it's harder to do, so we need players who can pick locks. Unfortunately, we only really have Pogba capable of doing that. But I can't genuinely understand how you can't see us pressing more, defending higher up the pitch. A cursory glance at the relevant statistics so far this season is enough to see that.

 

[koop]

Regardless of all that, we are still playing 10x better than we did last season atleast.

 

[M Bison]

You're making the mistake of assuming that we are not an average side. Like we are somehow above those levels. Think again. Like I said, how many of our current players would make those elite sides I mentioned?

Sorry I don’t follow your reply, were you replying to a different post?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

LVG we saw possession for the sake of possession.

LVG was better than Ole.

 

[Ekeke]

If Wolves would have scored from the free kick that hit the post, then Neves wouldn't have scored because the corner from which he eventually scored, was earned from the clearance to that hit on the post. That Palace great chance was offside, and would have been given so by the VAR had they scored, the linesman for some reason missed it.

Against, Chelsea unquestionably we did not deserve to win 4-0 and they were the better side in the 1st half, just as we were in the 2nd. So if you want to take a balanced view, do so with all the facts.

You dont know that. He could easily have had another shot from range. So stop pretending you have a crystal ball.

Who cares who was the better side? What matters is putting the ball in the net and we were very lucky they just about messed those chances up. But it was so close

 

[Mr PG]

Maguire was in a wrong position - probably to cover for Shaw. Why Shaw was back on the Field however is a good question. If we had taken him off and put McTominay down as left back until Young could enter the pitch..the goal wouldn't have happened. We messed up...but we simply need to learn

Ole is really getting on my nerves with his indecisiveness. A hamstring anything means immediate replacement no ifs or but’s. Also he sits on his arse all of first half when we’re coasting instead of bollocking the players like would. Rashford taking ridiculous freekicks from 40yards etc... too many things to list

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Ole is really getting on my nerves with his indecisiveness. A hamstring anything means immediate replacement no ifs or but’s. Also he sits on his arse all of first half when we’re coasting instead of bollocking the players like would. Rashford taking ridiculous freekicks from 40yards etc... too many things to list

He's a coward.

 

[sparx99]

For me it boils down to last season we were deservedly losing games. This year we have been the better side and not quite had the luck. That makes me optimistic.

Missing two pens has had a huge impact and those saying relying on pens is somehow a negative don’t understand the game. Almost every title winner has been top 1-2 in pens awarded and scored. And if we score them then we have the chance to counter attack wolves or 15 mins to get the winner vs Palace. Conceding the goal to Van Aanholt was because we chased the game. An earlier equaliser would’ve led to a more measured approach.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We are a-bit shit though, let’s be honest. We still have the same issues as we had 4/5 years ago. We struggle to break shitty teams down, play at a snails pace, look absolutely clueless in the final third, have no midfield and make errors at the back on a consistent basis. Our tactics and style of play are light years behind all the other European superpowers.

 

[King7Eric]

You dont know that. He could easily have had another shot from range. So stop pretending you have a crystal ball.

Who cares who was the better side? What matters is putting the ball in the net and we were very lucky they just about messed those chances up. But it was so close

Are you listening to yourself? If all that matters is putting the ball in the net then we were 4 times the side Chelsea was that day and wasn't close at all.

And if Wolves had scored 30 seconds before Neves scored, he wouldn't have scored another from there as the ball wouldn't be there in the first place. He could have easily shot another at any time and by that logic so could have Pogba but neither did, did they?

You can't have it both ways saying we were lucky to beat Chelsea but deserved to lose against Palace and draw against Wolves. If we were lucky to beat Chelsea then we were unlucky yesterday and if all that matters is putting the ball in the net then we were miles better than Chelsea. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Ekeke]

Are you listening to yourself? If all that matters is putting the ball in the net then we were 4 times the side Chelsea was that day and wasn't close at all.

And if Wolves had scored 30 seconds before Neves scored, he wouldn't have scored another from there as the ball wouldn't be there in the first place. He could have easily shot another at any time and by that logic so could have Pogba but neither did, did they?

You can't have it both ways saying we were lucky to beat Chelsea but deserved to lose against Palace and draw against Wolves. If we were lucky to beat Chelsea then we were unlucky yesterday and if all that matters is putting the ball in the net then we were miles better than Chelsea. You can't have it both ways.

Correct. We won 4-0. But we were lucky they didnt get 2. I havent said anything about them beating us, or drawing with us. I'm saying we could very easily have conceded 2 and were lucky that they were off by a few inches with those 2 finishes. We gave them the chance to get 2 goals, they ultimately just about missed them

 

[sunama]

Since the PSG game, last season, we have showed relegation form.
Let's not pretend that we are good at this game.
The board are likely to hit the reset button again, in time for next Summer.

That is all feckin doom and gloom because all the same patterns and mistakes are there. Get rid of Lingard. Stop playing Paul so deep. Get a feckin dof. Fire that despicable ceo. Oust the owners.

I don't think any of these things will happen anytime soon.
The Lingard thing may happen if/when Ole's job is on the line, but it may be too late by then.

 

[Enigma_87]

Let’s not pretend the opposition was great either.

Palace are one of the worst teams in the league, and scored once in the first three games - against us.

Wolves so far looking nothing like the team of last season. Losing to Burnley at home and have two points in the first three - one against us.

Chelsea had ton of injuries, have just lost their star player and with the transfer ban couldn’t replace him, let alone have an unproven manager and are still struggling.

At first look the fixture list looked tough but from what they shown they weren’t very good themselves.

And that was with close to full strength team in those 3 games, before injures will inevitably begin to kick in.

 

[ivaldo]

LVG was better than Ole.

K.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

K.

Excellent counter argument.

 

[ivaldo]

Excellent counter argument.

How could I compete with such a well thought out and reasoned post? It would've taken me days to go through all that evidence.

 

[Sky1981]

Can people stop with that? Absolute nonsens! Why not take every game with Solskjaer as manager? Why jump over pre season? Taking facts out of context and putting them to suit own agenda is easy.

Eh... that's the fact mate.

Should we just reset the counter after every lost?

 

[InspiRED]

I'm not panicking at all. The performances have been pretty good imo. Ole's got the job so now it's up to us to back him for the forseeable future, particularly when performances are good. The defeat against Palace did seem harsh.

However it really grates being attacked on here for wanting some new signings, when it's clearly fecking obvious they are required. Why is Lingard playing #10 instead of Fernandes? We're obv a couple of quality signings short and all that will happen is the kids will get turned on when their form inevitably drops.

 

[Catt]

I'm not panicking at all. The performances have been pretty good imo. Ole's got the job so now it's up to us to back him for the forseeable future, particularly when performances are good. The defeat against Palace did seem harsh.

However it really grates being attacked on here for wanting some new signings, when it's clearly fecking obvious they are required. Why is Lingard playing #10 instead of Fernandes? We're obv a couple of quality signings short and all that will happen is the kids will get turned on when their form inevitably drops.

We need signings but is Fernandes the answer?

 

[InspiRED]

We need signings but is Fernandes the answer?

Got to be an upgrade on Lingard no?

 

[Denis79]

It will turn around and we'll have a fantastic period to then drop back again, we'll be very inconsistent throughout the season. Hopefully it will be enough for top 4, we'll just have to wait and see. We're far from the top sides in the league but I agree we aren't as bad as some make us out to be.

 

[Catt]

Got to be an upgrade on Lingard no?

Many probably would but there seem to be doubts about him. We definitely need an upgrade though.

 

[Cantona in disguise]

I get the negativity surrounding yesterdays result as it always hurts to lose to teams who had no intention of winning. They came for a point and got a smash and grab winner. Full credit to palace and the way they set up.

We didn't create enough. Lingard offers next to nothing going forward apart from his willingness to press. Is that enough at this level? Not for me. Rashford still wastes a lot of possession with either a silly pass or the wrong decision but hes still learning his trade. Dan James is still very raw but I thought he played well yesterday he just lacks that little bit of finesse, he could go down the route of Lennon or theo. He will be useful at times for us as defenders are scared of his pace.

I am looking to Paul pogba to drag this team up a level. Unfortunately for me he cannot do it. He either lacks the focus or the drive to do it and wants to be elsewhere. In Paul you have a player that could easily drag these lot up a level, hes a massive talent but he should be more than that now. I know that's not a popular opinion on here though so I will leave it there.

I'd take 5th this year if we start to see more of gomes, garner, greenwood Chong and less of lingard and mata. I know manchester united should be aiming higher than 5th but if there is proper progress with the youth it will be worth another year. Hopefully we can then invest for the final pieces of the jigsaw and really kick on.

 

[King7Eric]

Correct. We won 4-0. But we were lucky they didnt get 2. I havent said anything about them beating us, or drawing with us. I'm saying we could very easily have conceded 2 and were lucky that they were off by a few inches with those 2 finishes. We gave them the chance to get 2 goals, they ultimately just about missed them

We were playing Chelsea, a genuine top 6 rival and a team that's probably as good as us, hardly a surprise they created chances, good thing is we created more.

 

[Nickthepip]

I missed the game yesterday and have only seen extended highlights. Can anybody tell me why Dan James was getting stick from apparent supporters? Any particular reason for it or was he just judged to have had a poor game? He took his goal brilliantly and 2 goals from 3 games from a player that many thought would be a squad option isn't bad! From what I could see, and granted it's only from the 20 minutes or so of highlights I think the reaction to the result is way over the top. When I saw the score I had the FFS reaction that I'm sure many had but I honestly feel like this is just a bump in the road. If we had scored the penalty and De Gea does his job at the end we win. I know it's all ifs and buts but the point is the result could easily have been different. We'll bounce back from this. Can't wait for next Saturday.

If you mean from within OT there were a few moans and groans in the first half due to some poor decision making but this wasn’t reserved just for him. The truth was that in the first half we had four attacking players whose primary attribute is pace playing against a five man midfield and back four with no space to attack behind them. I think the crowds frustration was borne out of a lack of guile within the team to unlock a defence.

 

[Enigma_87]

We were playing Chelsea, a genuine top 6 rival and a team that's probably as good as us, hardly a surprise they created chances, good thing is we created more.

Who were missing ton of starters, had a transfer ban and were just kicking ball for the first game without their best player, under a new inexperienced manager.

 

[Nickthepip]

Anyone who saw the entirety of the game yesterday has a right to be concerned. We were unlucky with a number of refereeing decisions etc but we struggled to break Palace down and hardly forced the keeper into a save. What’s most concerning is that an injury to any of yesterday’s starting 11 probably weakens us further or at the very least means the experience of the team is reduced even further. We’ve got some great prospects coming through but they need guidance from senior professionals to flourish and can be expected to win games on their own straight away.

I want the manager to succeed and he needs time but he picked the wrong side yesterday, Mata should’ve started, we knew they’d just sit back and defend deep.

 

[King7Eric]

Who were missing ton of starters, had a transfer ban and were just kicking ball for the first game without their best player, under a new inexperienced manager.

Will you allow us the same leverage if we lose a few matches and are missing a couple of players through injuries? As for the transfer ban, they bought it upon themselves and are serving due punishment, it's not really an excuse.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I Genuinely believe that between the players who are far from good enough, those who think they're much better than they are, those who think they're too good for us, and those who haven't the stomach for a fight, we're a poor squad indeed. Our season will continue in the same vein of form we've been in for some months now for the foreseeable future.

 

[KevinJoh]

So, it looks like everyone expected we will easily win all the games in the league.
Lets be honest. Both Wolves and CP games have been much better to watch than games from Jose or periods before. You could see guys running for every ball, fighting till the last seconds, pressing and trying. We deserved to win both games and have been punished for mistakes.
Wolves did not create much against us, we totally dominated 3/4 of the game, and you couldn't say that for last two games away to Wolves.
Yesterday we have been much better team and CP had two chances and scored both from our mistakes. It happens.

What we knew is that we will have problems against teams that defend with 10 players behind the ball. Especially if referee let them play more aggressive with a lot of small fouls. We will have similar problem in a lot of games. You can always make mistake, and with Maguire and Lindelof (and the rest) playing thrid game together mistakes will happen.

For me, this team can be watched and this is improvement. Yes, there are problems and we will lose a lot of games like this during the season, but it looks like we are a team now. Missing pieces will be added.

 

[Bilbo]

Regardless of all that, we are still playing 10x better than we did last season atleast.

Yes we are. It's always going to be slightly frustrating to be on 4 points when it really should be 9, but if we can take anything from the opening 3 rounds of the PL then it's this:

Liverpool and City aside, every single other team in this league are going to get beaten a fair amount. This is a strong league.

This is the part that tests how full of shit our fanbase is. Before the season it was accepted that we are a work in progress. Building something. Guess what - 'works in progress' lose games that they should win. They make mistakes. If they didn't, they would be a finished article.

It still won't stop those same fans from losing their minds and calling for change every time we don't win a match, and it will continue on and on all season. Barring a percentage of posters that understand this, this forum has sadly become a little toxic.

I've enjoyed watching our games so far. I like this team. It feels like all of the mercenaries are gone and I can get behind this group of players. I think we'll get better as the season goes on.

 

[Ekeke]

We were playing Chelsea, a genuine top 6 rival and a team that's probably as good as us, hardly a surprise they created chances, good thing is we created more.

A new experimental frontline with youngsters Mount and Abraham, they arent proven as genuine top 6 rival quality.