We Miss Fellaini

[RedMilo]

Fellaini can be effective but that doesnt mean he enhances the team, I still subscribe to the view that he isnt united quality but for his efforts last year, I am not as keen to have him out as I initially was so in that respect he has changed my opinion of him.

 

[marcomanmufc]

First off, I realise my reputation probably precedes me here, but I am making this thread nonetheless.

We have racked up two wins, albeit with two fairly unspectacular performances. We have looked organised in defence but have lacked creativity and penetration in midfield and in attack, those are my 2 cents on our games so far roughly.

I spent much of last season preaching this, and I am going to repeat it here - having Fellaini on the pitch changes the complexion of the game for us (and not in a bad way) because he offers a completely different threat to the opponent. Today, and against Spurs, we barely bothered to put a cross in, and who could blame us since we wouldnt have anyone reliably getting on the end of them. However the result is that our attack becomes increasingly one dimensional. The opponent knows that they dont really need to worry about defending the wide areas because we lack aerial threat.

Enter Fellaini. His very presence forces the opponent to defend crossing areas more diligently, and as such creates more space in the middle of the park for our other players.

The big man also provides a more direct option when one is needed, as well as an outball for defenders when they need to make a clearance, rather than simply ceding possession.

Having watched Rooney's performances, and seeing what LVG appears to want from his striker, I actually think (and am prepared for the barrage of insults I get for this) that Fellaini would be a good option up front for us at the moment, which is a view I have never previously held. His holdup play and aerial threat is unmatched, he has a good workrate and will close down and harrass the opponents back line, and his short passing game is underrated in my opinion.

Considering our squad balance at the moment, it wouldnt surprise me to see LVG use Fellaini in an advanced role this season (assuming we dont buy another striker, which we still could) rather than compete in an increasingly stacked midfield, and I actually think he could do a great job for us in the current system/formation.

His defensive willingness, workrate and holdup play would allow the second striker/#10 to make overlapping runs, he provides a great option on crosses, corners and free kicks, and he is also a great asset on defending set pieces - and with Blind at CB, some extra height would be very useful in my opinion.


I dont expect this to be a very popular opinion or topic, but I would love to see Fellaini given a try up front in this system. Perhaps the biggest obstacle would be LVGs unwillingness to drop Rooney though.

Great post.

I got kicked when i said similar 2 years ago. He offers something completely different, which is tbh something that we desperately need right now. Its not that we're not trying to create chances, but we are so obvious in our play currently, that teams find it reasonably easy to play us.

We need to change it up.

Would like to see him start tomorrow night and see how we get on.

 

[facund]

We miss the ability to win an aerial battle in the opponents half and to hold up the ball in the final third.

Fellaini brings these qualities and so I guess the OP is right in a sense. What else does he bring to the team that would justify his inclusion in our front four (the supposed creative division of the team)?

Fellaini is a necessary part of the team/squad at the moment, it seems, but I would say that it is due to the lack of certain traits in the players around him that he can compensate for rather than a ringing endorsement of his own abilities.

This is not to knock him. He is good at what he does but what he does is reasonably limited in its scope and I would much rather he is a plan B than our default option.

 

[Shimo]

As lead man, I think it's a bad idea. Right now we are struggling getting behind defenses and Fellaini, for all his qualities, playing as a lead man will just end up with us playing in front of defenses even more. I can see him as the support striker, where he can be the one to bring others into play but, not one that can run the channels and look to stretch defenses - which is what we really need right now.

We were frustrated by Rooney being offside a lot against Villa and can only imagine how often Fellaini would be caught because that's just not his game. He'll be good to come off the bench tomorrow if we need to change things up - that's for sure.

 

[Shark]

He'd be doing a hell of a lot better than Rooney right now as a target man up top. In fact, I'm almost certain he'd have scored against one of Villa or Spurs. He's a great asset, and not enough people appreciate it.

 

[Walrus]

As lead man, I think it's a bad idea. Right now we are struggling getting behind defenses and Fellaini, for all his qualities, playing as a lead man will just end up with us playing in front of defenses even more. I can see him as the support striker, where he can be the one to bring others into play but, not one that can run the channels and look to stretch defenses - which is what we really need right now.

We were frustrated by Rooney being offside a lot against Villa and can only imagine how often Fellaini would be caught because that's just not his game. He'll be good to come off the bench tomorrow if we need to change things up - that's for sure.

I agree with your assessment that we are struggling to get behind defenses, but I disagree with your conclusion that the striker should be the one doing this. If we had someone up front who could hold up the ball and play in the likes of Memphis, Januzaj or Mata, then in my opinion that would be our strongest strategy.

 

[Roboc7]

In this formation the only role for him is as the number 10 behind Rooney, he can play there and offers something different but if that is the best we can come up with it says as much about the under Achievment of the manager and other players as it does about Fellaini's attributes.

What fellaini will add is an easy out ball and someone who can control the ball and play simple balls out wide of back to the midfield, his main impact in terms of attacking will be playing it wide then getting in the box and waiting for a cross. That tactic can be effective, it is easy to implement and easy to play, it is also easier to stop though and it will result in lots of crosses and playing percentages.

We won't have a number ten who can open up defences, dribble past players, spread the play or play through balls to the wide players and striker, last season for all his good play fellaini had zero assists. Most top teams play with number tens who have these attributes because you gain more from it and if you have players with ability it is harder to stop.

Fellaini is a limited player and we should be able to do better, that is a fair assessment and not really a criticism but we may well not be good enough to implement anything better given LVG's preference for slow, safe football and restrictions on players dribbling or deviating from his rigid structure.

 

[Ish]

Yeah, its certainly one of the more common "arguments" used against Fellaini. Its pretty much completely a nothing statement, as if to say that Fellaini must be so bad, and so obviously bad, that no actual justification is needed. Clearly it isnt that obvious however, given the discussion in this thread and the fact that LVG hasnt just sold him to a Championship side.

How is saying "to reach Barca/Madrid/Bayern level" you need a tad better than Fellaini in your starting lineup a "nothing" statement? It's essentially saying Fellaini is a level below the worlds elite. It's no slight on him. there's a definite use/value to him. I said so. It's fine if you disagree & think he's good enough to propel us to compete with the best. That would be your opinion.

This comment has become the vogue statement regarding Fellaini. As if we have many players who would walk into or compete with the first teams of Barcelona, Bayern, et al, and Fellaini is the millstone on our neck dragging us down into the depths of mediocrity. Let's see.

Attack: Er...
Midfield: Schweinsteiger. Herrara?
Defense: Er... Smalling and Darmian?
Goal: DDG

So why is it that this comment only comes up frequently when Fellaini is discussed?

Tbf adex, it's often used when Young's discussed as well. I actually have no issue against Fellaini or Young. They were 2 of our most important players last season. But it's my opinion that they're a level below what's needed against the very best, especially in Europe. You could hold a different opinion, then fair enough.

But saying the comment represents Fellaini "dragging us down" is simply untrue. SAF never fielded a team of XI stars. He built a strong foundation, and supplemented it with world class talent. So there's a use for Fellaini, IMO, he could be a valuable member in a title challenging team. I just don't think his "level" will elevate us to the elite of Europe.

Fwiw, I think Barca's style has, in the eyes of some, diminished the value of Fellaini's unfashionable skill set a tad. He's not silky or pleasant on the eye, but used correctly, he could be instrumental. I just think then you'd need to build a specific game plan, to get the best out of him. you could obviously think the complete opposite of Fellaini. & id actually love it if Fellaini proved me wrong. He's our player, after all.

 

[Walrus]

How is saying "to reach Barca/Madrid/Bayern level" you need a tad better than Fellaini in your starting lineup a "nothing" statement? It's essentially saying Fellaini is a level below the worlds elite. It's no slight on him. there's a definite use/value to him. I said so. It's fine if you disagree & think he's good enough to propel us to compete with the best. That would be your opinion.

I think that last season Fellaini was MotM against a rampant Chelsea side, put in another excellent performance the following week against City, and several others against the big sides over the course of the season. He is very much a big game player in my opinion, just like when he was at Everton. Chelsea won the Champions League final with Mikel starting in midfield, and Kalou and Bertrand on the wings. United under SAF competed and won the PL for several years with the likes of Park, O'Shea, Valencia, Fletcher etc playing major parts in the team. It is a myth that you have to have a Lionel Messi in every single position to win anything, like some on here suggest.

In addition to the above, Fellaini has shown the sort of mental strength and fortitude that is arguably just as important as technical ability on the pitch (which is not an admission that Fellaini's technique is particularly bad, either). He was booed by our own fans during preseason, and was largely reported to be on his way out (to the joy of many fans), he fought for his place, listened to the managers instructions and turned his United career around. That is representative of the sort of mental characteristics we should want from our players, and I have no doubt that any successful manager would agree and highlight the importance of the mental aspects of players.

As LVG has said repeatedly, we should always strive to improve our team, but we have won trophies with far worse players than Fellaini starting regularly, as have countless other teams. The notion that we cannot compete for the PL or CL with Fellaini in the team is therefore again, one that I reject completely. As @adexkola said it has simply become the vogue statement for those who want to criticise or devalue Fellaini in the team, and who dont appear (again, in my opinion) to have any actual reasoning behind their statements, so just fall back on the "Not good enough" statement, despite him being one of our better outfield players last season - the first full and proper season he has had with us*.

*I say "full and proper" because I am discounting the 13/14 season under Moyes for the following reasons;

• The entire team was rubbish.
• Fellaini had no pre-season.
• Fellaini played the first half of the season carrying an injury.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

I know he was key to some of our better performances last season but I'm still not convinced by him. As a plan b yes he can create some problems for opposing defences but surely we can do better?

It's been well discussed on here that the team right now lacks pace and a threat in behind. Fellaini offers neither and in fact he would slow us down more and make us even more predictable.

The argument could be made that playing him would bring others in to play more? That he could lay the ball off simply to the likes of Memphis and Mata... But I don't think he'd bring the best out of either personally.

When he's in the team everything is played in front of the opposition defence and leaves no room in behind. Mata proved on Friday he wants movement in behind.

 

[Walrus]

The argument could be made that playing him would bring others in to play more? That he could lay the ball off simply to the likes of Memphis and Mata... But I don't think he'd bring the best out of either personally.

When he's in the team everything is played in front of the opposition defence and leaves no room in behind. Mata proved on Friday he wants movement in behind.

I disagree with this part. Fellaini creates space for other players by drawing defenders to him, and by forcing the opponents to defend crosses rather than just showing our players out wide.

As a natural midfielder, Fellaini would sit deep compared to a "normal" striker. It would be foolish for him to play on the last man, he can simply come deep, receive the ball and hold it up, and then lay it off to the likes of Januzaj, Mata or Memphis when they run in behind. That is how I see it, anyway.

 

[Ish]

I think that last season Fellaini was MotM against a rampant Chelsea side, put in another excellent performance the following week against City, and several others against the big sides over the course of the season. He is very much a big game player in my opinion, just like when he was at Everton. Chelsea won the Champions League final with Mikel starting in midfield, and Kalou and Bertrand on the wings. United under SAF competed and won the PL for several years with the likes of Park, O'Shea, Valencia, Fletcher etc playing major parts in the team. It is a myth that you have to have a Lionel Messi in every single position to win anything, like some on here suggest.

In addition to the above, Fellaini has shown the sort of mental strength and fortitude that is arguably just as important as technical ability on the pitch (which is not an admission that Fellaini's technique is particularly bad, either). He was booed by our own fans during preseason, and was largely reported to be on his way out (to the joy of many fans), he fought for his place, listened to the managers instructions and turned his United career around. That is representative of the sort of mental characteristics we should want from our players, and I have no doubt that any successful manager would agree and highlight the importance of the mental aspects of players.

As LVG has said repeatedly, we should always strive to improve our team, but we have won trophies with far worse players than Fellaini starting regularly, as have countless other teams. The notion that we cannot compete for the PL or CL with Fellaini in the team is therefore again, one that I reject completely. As @adexkola said it has simply become the vogue statement for those who want to criticise or devalue Fellaini in the team, and who dont appear (again, in my opinion) to have any actual reasoning behind their statements, so just fall back on the "Not good enough" statement, despite him being one of our better outfield players last season - the first full and proper season he has had with us*.

*I say "full and proper" because I am discounting the 13/14 season under Moyes for the following reasons;

• The entire team was rubbish.
• Fellaini had no pre-season.
• Fellaini played the first half of the season carrying an injury.

I don't disagree with any of that mate. I actually value Fellaini. But one thing to remember is - SAF won countless trophies with a good team, which always contained 3-4 absolute stars, at least. Currently, were short of that marquee quality, & then, it becomes difficult to compete.

All in all, it's an opinion we would differ on, but I could be completely wrong, but as long as we are successful, I wouldn't care less. & if Fellaini performs, I'd be even happier. He's our player, after all.

 

[adexkola]

Tbf adex, it's often used when Young's discussed as well. I actually have no issue against Fellaini or Young. They were 2 of our most important players last season. But it's my opinion that they're a level below what's needed against the very best, especially in Europe. You could hold a different opinion, then fair enough.

But saying the comment represents Fellaini "dragging us down" is simply untrue. SAF never fielded a team of XI stars. He built a strong foundation, and supplemented it with world class talent. So there's a use for Fellaini, IMO, he could be a valuable member in a title challenging team. I just don't think his "level" will elevate us to the elite of Europe.

Fwiw, I think Barca's style has, in the eyes of some, diminished the value of Fellaini's unfashionable skill set a tad. He's not silky or pleasant on the eye, but used correctly, he could be instrumental. I just think then you'd need to build a specific game plan, to get the best out of him. you could obviously think the complete opposite of Fellaini. & id actually love it if Fellaini proved me wrong. He's our player, after all.

I understand what you're saying man, and I agree with it on face value. But by that criteria then we'd have to ship out almost all but a few players and start again. That's not how great teams are built. Those teams we envy today weren't built like that. Except for Real of course. All the top teams have their stars of course, but the majority are players who wouldn't be centerpieces at other clubs, but can elevate their game as needed.

I'm not going to argue the aesthetics argument, everyone has their preferred brand of football and choosing players based on that is fair.

 

[Ish]

I understand what you're saying man, and I agree with it on face value. But by that criteria then we'd have to ship out almost all but a few players and start again. That's not how great teams are built. Those teams we envy today weren't built like that. Except for Real of course. All the top teams have their stars of course, but the majority are players who wouldn't be centerpieces at other clubs, but can elevate their game as needed.

I'm not going to argue the aesthetics argument, everyone has their preferred brand of football and choosing players based on that is fair.

Yeah, agreed man. It's a tough one & as you mentioned, at the end of the day we all have our preferences, especially in style.

 

[Walrus]

I don't disagree with any of that mate. I actually value Fellaini. But one thing to remember is - SAF won countless trophies with a good team, which always contained 3-4 absolute stars, at least. Currently, were short of that marquee quality, & then, it becomes difficult to compete.

All in all, it's an opinion we would differ on, but I could be completely wrong, but as long as we are successful, I wouldn't care less. & if Fellaini performs, I'd be even happier. He's our player, after all.

Star quality was and is definitely something we lack, and I am by no means arguing that Fellaini can be our equivalent to Hazard or Aguero. I just think that in the current system we are playing, he could be effective up front and get the best out of some other players who COULD be our stars.

 

[Dans]

Fellaini?

We need a Dzeko/Mandzukic type striker playing upfront instead of Rooney.

How about Ibrahimovic?

 

[Ish]

Star quality was and is definitely something we lack, and I am by no means arguing that Fellaini can be our equivalent to Hazard or Aguero. I just think that in the current system we are playing, he could be effective up front and get the best out of some other players who COULD be our stars.

Yeah, I think personal preference also has a big impact on fans and the players they relate to. Hence Fellaini always finds it much more difficult to win over some fans. His style isn't exactly "popular or sleek on the eye"

But yeah, as long as we're successful, I couldn't care less who's part of the team. Oh, and play some decent football to boot.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

Yeah, I think personal preference also has a big impact on fans and the players they relate to. Hence Fellaini always finds it much more difficult to win over some fans. His style isn't exactly "popular or sleek on the eye"

But yeah, as long as we're successful, I couldn't care less who's part of the team. Oh, and play some decent football to boot.

And that's absolutely fair because that's your opinion mate. I don't agree though because I want to be entertained. Watching us lump the ball up to Fellaini even if it's effective would be worse than the way we are playing right now.

I just think that in the current system we are playing, he could be effective up front and get the best out of some other players who COULD be our stars.

Yes he could be effective in the system we are currently playing but he doesn't have the technical ability to fit in with what LVG wants. He's too sloppy in possession and would offer no threat in behind which LVG needs for the system to be a real success.

 

[ZDwyr]

Like when he ran through the Spurs defense you mean? Clearly he's not really that type of striker but we need something. Hernandez needs minutes too so hopefully he'll feature soon.

That was my thought when I posted, yeah. He is capable of making those runs.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Time to unleash the Afro beast on our hapless European opponents.

 

[Dion]

We miss him because he'd do a bit of the job Rooney is supposed to be doing but isn't.

 

[Kant-ona]

Anyone else always thinking about Fellaini's wife when reading the thread title? (I have no idea what she looks like though.)

I think we could see him tonight as a sub.

 

[ZDwyr]

Anyone else always thinking about Fellaini's wife when reading the thread title? (I have no idea what she looks like though.)

I think we could see him tonight as a sub.

He isn't married? As far as I know anyway.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Get in!!!

 

[Hellboy]

Oh yes Afro

 

[Red Shorts]

I bloody love him. And people will keep saying we don't need him at all....

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Why was he holding up five fingers on one hand and two on the other? The score was 3-1

 

[kouroux]

Why was he holding up five fingers on one hand and two on the other? The score was 3-1

"Assist by the number 7".

 

[Judas]

He did his job perfectly to be honest, no complaints from me for that little cameo.

 

[Widnes]

He certainly offers something, I see him as a squad player and a very good plan b sub to bring off the bench. There is certainly a place for him at United.

 

[Shurou]

Afro beast indeed! TBH, I still believe he shouldn't be a starter for us in most games, but that was some impact!

 

[ChaddyP]

he's back bitches

 

[Yorkeontop]

Dude just put into Europe, I'll say we missed him alright.

 

[izec]

Plan B worked.

 

[Shiva87]

Changed the game IMO. Much more potent in attack when he was on.

 

[steeeb]

He gives the boss something to think about, which is great. We need Herrera to start having the same impact.

 

[Walrus]

Dude just put into Europe, I'll say we missed him alright.

No no, Fellaini is the one preventing us from competing in Europe, remember?

 

[Keenst]

**** hero already.

 

[sullydnl]

Great option to have in scenarios like that. You know exactly what's going to happen but it's so hard to stop.

 

[Rowem]

Striker