We need to be less kind with contract renewals

[StrettyEnder07]

Only issue with Mata being given a new contract is will that put us off going and buying a top quality RW? If he was played at a 10, maybe even as back up to Pogba then ok.

It might be a case of buying a top class RW to battle with Lingard, Mata as back up to Pogba in the 10, Fred as back up at the moment to Herrera and Pereira leaving in the summer with a new DMC coming in to fight it out with Matic.

If that was the case then ok, happy with that, if it is to be a RW then it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[MadDogg]

Mata was an important player for us when we were playing 4231. Even when he wasn't necessarily playing well himself (although he often did), it was fairly obvious that we tended to play better as a team with him on the right than we did with anyone else. Kind of similar situation with Lingard now.

However it wasn't a coincidence that Mata's form fell off a cliff around the time we started moving towards a 433. He just doesn't suit that formation. To be fair to him he did actually start playing fairly well again in November/December, but he's gone off the boil again since then. Not sure if he's played well under Ole yet. If we are going to continue playing the three in midfield I'm just not sure where he can fit in (other than maybe as a backup to Pogba but I can't remember him actually being used there).

 

[roseguy64]

I agree. We should be just letting the contracts of the Likes of jones Valencia and young, mata, darmian run down at this point. Young and Valencia are just past the point of being Utd standard players, but would be a good free agent buy for a newly promoted team etc. Darmian and Jones as well as Rojo were openly up for sale in the summer and no one sniffed at them.
Some demented fans on here seem to think they all have a sale value of 40m each and should have their contracts renewed to protect that sale value.Time to cut our losses and just get rid of them to free up the wage bill and help to smooth us up on the FFP.

Also, someone look at this outfield team without wincing, took the liberty of adding a couple of no hopers we have out on loan down:

Young Jones Rojo Borthwick Jackson

Valencia Mata Fellaini Mctominay Pereira

Wilson

Darmian on bench

Wouldn’t win the conference

Detest exaggerated posts like this.

 

[Zlatattack]

Detest exaggerated posts like this.

I agree, but our B-team is pretty weak.

If we assume plan A is;

DDG
Dalot Lindelof Smalling Shaw
Herrera Matic
Lingard Pogba Martial
Rashford​

Then plan B is;

Romero
Valencia Bailly Jones Young
Periera McTominay Fred
Mata Lukaku Sanchez​

For me the only people we ought to keep are those in bold. The rest aren't good enough for our first team. Even with these names, Fred is unproven yet and Sanchez is running on past glory.

 

[Sylar]

The thing is many people expect us or want us to lose about 10 players per window. I do think our whole strategy has been wrong. And do expect Darmian, Rojo and/or Jones to go, and Valencia too.
I have no issue with Young being there for another year especially if the rumours of his good influence in the dressing room (we seem to not have enough of that).
With Fellaini going as well, that would be around 5 going that need to be replaced in the squad.

We can promote one or two youth but will need a couple of signings. I dont expect more than 3 signings in the summer with 2 defensive players needed. And then another midfield. But hopefully process started to making the squad balanced again. We have a good young core to the team

 

[Oneunited26]

Mata will hardly get any gametime now and, for me, I'd rather give that scarce gametime to Gomes / Chong and start building their first team experience up gradually

I agree that we seem to almost give these contract extensions out routinely

We could move darmian, young, valencia, rojo, mata, jones, sanchez, lukaku, on for starters, and with that many off the wages we could improve CB, RB, and RW, all of a sudden the backdoor would be locked, and the side would be upgraded ten fold with the right handside upgraded with pace who both martial and the right handside ripping sides apart, we could introduce more youth and you add DDG, shaw, lindelof, herrera, pogba, martial and rasford with RB, CB and RW upgraded with top class talent filling those weak spots, we would be a force. Summer 2021, we could upgrade herrera and matic, and then 2022/23 we would have all of RB, CB, DM, CM and RW all sorted and with the way we attack we would be terrifying. But if we keep with deadwood FC this club didnt think yeah we have some outstanding players that we didnt become ruthless and add onto these players

 

[Chairman Steve]

I have no problem giving Young another one year rolling contract, especially if Valencia's on the way out.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

We could move darmian, young, valencia, rojo, mata, jones, sanchez, lukaku, on for starters, and with that many off the wages we could improve CB, RB, and RW, all of a sudden the backdoor would be locked, and the side would be upgraded ten fold with the right handside upgraded with pace who both martial and the right handside ripping sides apart, we could introduce more youth and you add DDG, shaw, lindelof, herrera, pogba, martial and rasford with RB, CB and RW upgraded with top class talent filling those weak spots, we would be a force. Summer 2021, we could upgrade herrera and matic, and then 2022/23 we would have all of RB, CB, DM, CM and RW all sorted and with the way we attack we would be terrifying. But if we keep with deadwood FC this club didnt think yeah we have some outstanding players that we didnt become ruthless and add onto these players

I’d keep Young, he’s useful. I’d also keep Sanchez unless we can get good money for him, which is unlikely. Apart from that I wouldn’t miss any of those.

 

[minoo-utd]

Don't touch my Mata I'm telling ya.
He is a great option.

 

[cyril C]

Mata was an important player for us when we were playing 4231. Even when he wasn't necessarily playing well himself (although he often did), it was fairly obvious that we tended to play better as a team with him on the right than we did with anyone else. Kind of similar situation with Lingard now.

However it wasn't a coincidence that Mata's form fell off a cliff around the time we started moving towards a 433. He just doesn't suit that formation. To be fair to him he did actually start playing fairly well again in November/December, but he's gone off the boil again since then. Not sure if he's played well under Ole yet. If we are going to continue playing the three in midfield I'm just not sure where he can fit in (other than maybe as a backup to Pogba but I can't remember him actually being used there).

How often have we played Mata to start with? Using 4231 as example, the MF 2 were never Mata. Different managers have experiment with Mata as the #10, didn't work too well. Some tried him as RW drifting inside, which worked sometime, but then you must ask yourself - would we be better off having a faster RW who is comfortable with running down the RHS and making cross with his right foot (and shoot with his left)

Mata has contributed to our game here and there BUT he was NEVER that important, in what ever formation for Utd.

 

[broccoli]

It's been a big issue far too long I've been saying it here since what? When Moyes took over? Sanchez was the icing on the cake.

 

[Jezpeza]

Detest exaggerated posts like this.

It was mainly Sarcasm. Just pointing out that we have a fair few poor players. Glad you had a lot to about the rest of the post though, carry on enriching us with your input

 

[Anders Agnalt]

Neither player has ever complained as I can recall? 2 players, but totally opposite. Neither one being greater, Fellaini more frustrating than good..

So my choice would be Mata

 

[MadDogg]

How often have we played Mata to start with? Using 4231 as example, the MF 2 were never Mata. Different managers have experiment with Mata as the #10, didn't work too well. Some tried him as RW drifting inside, which worked sometime, but then you must ask yourself - would we be better off having a faster RW who is comfortable with running down the RHS and making cross with his right foot (and shoot with his left)

Mata has contributed to our game here and there BUT he was NEVER that important, in what ever formation for Utd.

Mata was our first choice right winger when we played 4231, and rightfully so as he performed better than anyone else (and the team as a whole tended to play better with him as well). We might have been able to buy someone who could do better, but we never did. So he was fairly important as he was better than anyone else we actually had.

While I'm not sure how much of a future he has here, we should give him credit where deserved.

 

[simonhch]

MEMO. Attn: Executive Management

We need to be less kind with contract renewals.

Regards, Avram Glazer.

Hello David. Here’s your new contract. You cnut.

Mister Ed? Que me dices?

 

[Doracle]

I don’t really get this thread. Very few teams (if any) let the type of players being mentioned here go for free. The real point is we need to start getting smarter about identifying the players we don’t want to renew and selling them. Darmian last Summer was a perfect example. We held out for an offer which simply was never going to come and should have sold him for what was on the table.

 

[Barnslig]

The thing is many people expect us or want us to lose about 10 players per window.

To be fair, the 10 players people want out every window are usually the same ones, we just never shift them on.

 

[roseguy64]

It was mainly Sarcasm. Just pointing out that we have a fair few poor players. Glad you had a lot to about the rest of the post though, carry on enriching us with your input

You're welcome

 

[Jose Meltdown Incoming]

Don't touch my Mata I'm telling ya.
He is a great option.

Once in a while he’s alright. On Tuesday he was the worst player on the pitch.

The squad is bloated with players who are nowhere near the level required on wages so high it needs their contracts running down to be able to shift them. Mata is a lovely fella, but so is my Dad. He’s not good enough to start and will command far too much money for a squad player.

Thankfully we’re slowly sorting this out by moving on Fellaini, with Darmian and Rojo surely out in the summer. But let’s move forwards, not hark back just because it is easier.

 

[::sonny::]

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[Oneunited26]

I’d keep Young, he’s useful. I’d also keep Sanchez unless we can get good money for him, which is unlikely. Apart from that I wouldn’t miss any of those.

Considering his age, poor defensively, and it’s a joke he’s captain, the wages he’s on that money could be used to strengthen our weakened position unles delot starts coming on, Sanchez for me is a toxic signing, he gets in the way of pogba’s position for some weird reason we don’t try him on the right his best position, and for the wages he is on and the form he is in, it’s caused the domino effect where players that actually do will and should demand more than he is on

We need to be ruthless, summers 2019, 2020 and 2021 we should be seeing the backs of darmian, Jones, rojo, smalling, young, Valencia, mata, Sanchez and lukaku, thats how long it’s going to take to move on deadwood fc, bring youth through, strengthen our RB, CB, DM, CM and RW positions, with deadwood fc all gone, add depth to the squad. But deadwood FC cost us two points Tuesday, and until the owners stop attaining deadwood fc because it’s cheap by dwindling contracts to the last year, resigning these average players where allot of them are past their best, and they hurt the way the side performers and will be found out at the top
Level, and we need to hire that director of football.

Mata for starters has no pace of physical attribute, so him and young offer us no width or creativity, because both are old and lack the pace to beat a man esp mata, when lingard, rashford and martial start all three have the legs to press sides and will interchange. Now if we add a top class RW, we have depth and if we rested that player lingerd or martial comes in and it doesn’t effect the sides quality, lingard for mata is a huge step down in pace and movement

 

[minoo-utd]

Once in a while he’s alright. On Tuesday he was the worst player on the pitch.

The squad is bloated with players who are nowhere near the level required on wages so high it needs their contracts running down to be able to shift them. Mata is a lovely fella, but so is my Dad. He’s not good enough to start and will command far too much money for a squad player.

Thankfully we’re slowly sorting this out by moving on Fellaini, with Darmian and Rojo surely out in the summer. But let’s move forwards, not hark back just because it is easier.

Not when he played at the center IMO.

 

[sunama]

Look Mata might be on a large wage and he might be turning 31 before the start of next season and he might have less goals + assists per minute that all our other attackers both this season and last season and he might be impossible to use in a counter attack system and he might contribute nothing when we don't have the ball and he might be taking up a position where we badly need an upgrade in a bloated squad but that's just nitpicking. He seems like a nice guy therefore he should get a new contract, simple.

 

[cyril C]

Mata was our first choice right winger when we played 4231, and rightfully so as he performed better than anyone else (and the team as a whole tended to play better with him as well). We might have been able to buy someone who could do better, but we never did. So he was fairly important as he was better than anyone else we actually had.

While I'm not sure how much of a future he has here, we should give him credit where deserved.

You sound like we were playing beautiful football when Mata was onboard. No it was not. May be Opta stats will support your claim, but it will be a case of it was awful when Mata not playing Vs it was not so awful when Mata was playing. Mata never click in, and I recall LVG struggled to find which is the best position for Mata, central or RW. Every goals that we scored in the past 5 years were mostly from individual effort, a volley from Young or Matic, a streak goal from Lingard. We hardly saw any beautiful build up and definitely not via Mata. Mata prefers running into empty space if there is any, and is often too late. IMO Mata is more suitable to Arsenal or Barca, but not us. Nothing wrong with this player, just his style of play.

FYI I enjoyed watching Arsenal games more than Utd games in the past 5 years, because if they lose I am happy, if they score they were great to watch.

 

[Samid]

More mediocracy getting rewarded. Top professional, nice guy but this isn't charity. We're supposed to be a club aspiring to be the best in the world.

People on here will still be celebrating this renewal though, just like they were with Fellaini, Smalling etc. in recent months. The arguments will be the same as every time a dud renews:

• "Top professional"
• "Excellent guy"
• "Least of our problems"
• "We can't let him leave because there are worse players in the squad"
• "We needed him to renew to get a fee or else he would have left on a free"
• "We need options off the bench"

None of these people will talk about the only thing that matters though. What does he offer on the field? The answer is: feck all. He is never in a million years good enough to be a starter. He might positively influence a game from the bench once in a blue moon but quite frankly that isn't enough considering the wages he is on and his status as a senior player.

• "Least of our problems, there are worse players in the squad" - So because a player's contract is up, we should offer him a new deal because he isn't the worst player in the squad? Such a pointless argument. If an average player is out of contract, let him leave. Don't give him a new deal just because there are worse players in the squad. Take care of those 'worse players' when their time comes.
• "He would've left on a free if we didn't renew" - And...? Since when are we getting fees for any of our duds anyway? We're not getting fees because we have mediocre players tied up on big wages. Giving them new deals won't give us leverage, it will only ensure that the players in question remain at the club until their contract is up because no other sane club would even attempt to match their wages.
• "We need options off the bench" - Let him leave on a free, get him off the wage bill and buy a proper RW who will rotate with Lingard. There you go, there is your 'option off the bench'. That is called strengthening the squad.

Be less kind with contract renewals for god's sake.

Hugs.

Two weeks later we've rewarded Young with a new deal and Phil Jones has signed a 4+1 year extension. Mata is in talks.

Look at what City did when Pep arrived. Realised their squad was full with deadwood and started phasing out the likes of Jovetic, Bony, Hart, Demichelis, Kolarov, Zabaleta, Mangala, Nasri, Yaya. At United all those duds would have been given new deals because they're 'least of our problems' and 'we need options off the bench'.

 

[RG 11]

Two weeks later we've rewarded Young with a new deal and Phil Jones has signed a 4+1 year extension. Mata is in talks.

Look at what City did when Pep arrived. Realised their squad was full with deadwood and started phasing out the likes of Jovetic, Bony, Hart, Demichelis, Kolarov, Zabaleta, Mangala, Nasri, Yaya. At United all those duds would have been given new deals because they're 'least of our problems' and 'we need options off the bench'.

Our standards have dropped so much. There was a time when this forum used to slate players like Fletcher and Nani constantly who were leagues better than the quality we have right now. Now we're happy extending Young's contract because he's experienced, nice and a top professional.

 

[SirAF]

Our standards have dropped so much. There was a time when this forum used to slate players like Fletcher and Nani constantly who were leagues better than the quality we have right now. Now we're happy extending Young's contract because he's experienced, nice and a top professional.

Agreed.

 

[Samid]

Our standards have dropped so much. There was a time when this forum used to slate players like Fletcher and Nani constantly who were leagues better than the quality we have right now. Now we're happy extending Young's contract because he's experienced, nice and a top professional.

Those were good times. "Yes we've reached the CL final 3 out of the last 4 times but are these players actually any good?"

 

[Lentwood]

The people who complain about us awarding contracts to players are fundamentally misunderstanding modern football

No longer do players get contracts based on their usefulness or ability - they are given contracts based on their value as an asset

If you are a Manchester Utd shareholder and players like Jones, Smalling and Mata are allowed to leave for nothing, then serious questions would be asked of Ed Woodward at the quarterly update meetings - as they would in any business if £30m assets were allowed to 'expire' for nothing

We are not Man City or PSG who can just continue to chop and change and write-off huge sums of money. This is why we need to be far, far more careful in who we target and buy, because once they are at the club it's bloody hard to shift them on again!

 

[AndyJ1985]

Those were good times. "Yes we've reached the CL final 3 out of the last 4 times but are these players actually any good?"

Now we can't even qualify for the CL 3 times in 4 years

 

[An Irish Red]

We are not Man City or PSG who can just continue to chop and change and write-off huge sums of money. This is why we need to be far, far more careful in who we target and buy, because once they are at the club it's bloody hard to shift them on again!

Liverpool are getting good fees for dross like Ward, Ibe, Solanke and Benteke. Our deadwood is still here, not because of a lack of suitors, but because we aren't ambitious enough to get rid of them.

 

[sweetmgd]

Liverpool are getting good fees for dross like Ward, Ibe, Solanke and Benteke. Our deadwood is still here, not because of a lack of suitors, but because we aren't ambitious enough to get rid of them.

Strongly agree! The reason why there are many players who may free go at the end of this season is because we struggled to sell them for the last few years, and had to wait until the end of contract to get rid of them. If we really treat players as "an asset", we should have sold them far ago, not until now.
Liverpool's goalkeeper Danny Ward never play a game for them, but he can still be sold for 15M, this is truley called business, not like us, keeping useless players and wait their value to drop.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

No longer do players get contracts based on their usefulness or ability - they are given contracts based on their value as an asset

If you are a Manchester Utd shareholder and players like Jones, Smalling and Mata are allowed to leave for nothing, then serious questions would be asked of Ed Woodward at the quarterly update meetings - as they would in any business if £30m assets were allowed to 'expire' for nothing

They're not £30m assets though. And transfer fees are amortized so it's not like writing down a balance sheet asset.

 

[NinjaFletch]

The people who complain about us awarding contracts to players are fundamentally misunderstanding modern football

No longer do players get contracts based on their usefulness or ability - they are given contracts based on their value as an asset

If you are a Manchester Utd shareholder and players like Jones, Smalling and Mata are allowed to leave for nothing, then serious questions would be asked of Ed Woodward at the quarterly update meetings - as they would in any business if £30m assets were allowed to 'expire' for nothing

We are not Man City or PSG who can just continue to chop and change and write-off huge sums of money. This is why we need to be far, far more careful in who we target and buy, because once they are at the club it's bloody hard to shift them on again!

I'm sure this bean counting logic is exactly what the club thinks.

It doesn't mean it's a good policy for the club to run on or that it's done anything else than ensure we keep rewarding mediocre players.

 

[Samid]

The people who complain about us awarding contracts to players are fundamentally misunderstanding modern football

No longer do players get contracts based on their usefulness or ability - they are given contracts based on their value as an asset

If you are a Manchester Utd shareholder and players like Jones, Smalling and Mata are allowed to leave for nothing, then serious questions would be asked of Ed Woodward at the quarterly update meetings - as they would in any business if £30m assets were allowed to 'expire' for nothing

We are not Man City or PSG who can just continue to chop and change and write-off huge sums of money. This is why we need to be far, far more careful in who we target and buy, because once they are at the club it's bloody hard to shift them on again!

And that's why the best solution is to take the L and let them leave on a free. We aren't getting £30m for Mata/Smalling/Jones because of their wages so it's totally irrelevant what they're worth in the eyes of shareholders.

The people who want mediocrity to be rewarded are fundamentally misunderstanding modern football. Modern football is about entertainment and staying relevant. That's what generates the money, not duds getting undeserved new contracts.

On one hand you're saying it's 'bloody hard' to get rid of players that aren't good enough. On the other you want those same players to be rewarded with new deals. A bit ridiculous that people aren't able to see this vicious circle.

 

[MadDogg]

Smalling and Young contract renewals are fine. They are decent squad options, with Young being able to provide cover for both fullback positions for another season or so. We don't have the money to strengthen starting spots and new squad players, so the better option is for those types of players to be replaced in the starting team and then those players dropping down to cover the squad positions.

Jones and Mata should not be renewed. They are pointless to keep as squad options, as Jones can't be relied on and Mata can't provide what we need that squad option to provide.

 

[Giant Midget]

Smalling and Young contract renewals are fine. They are decent squad options, with Young being able to provide cover for both fullback positions for another season or so. We don't have the money to strengthen starting spots and new squad players, so the better option is for those types of players to be replaced in the starting team and then those players dropping down to cover the squad positions.

Jones and Mata should not be renewed. They are pointless to keep as squad options, as Jones can't be relied on and Mata can't provide what we need that squad option to provide.

Jones has already been renewed, and I think we’re just haggling on wages with Mata right now

 

[Lentwood]

And that's why the best solution is to take the L and let them leave on a free. We aren't getting £30m for Mata/Smalling/Jones because of their wages so it's totally irrelevant what they're worth in the eyes of shareholders.

The people who want mediocrity to be rewarded are fundamentally misunderstanding modern football. Modern football is about entertainment and staying relevant. That's what generates the money, not duds getting undeserved new contracts.

On one hand you're saying it's 'bloody hard' to get rid of players that aren't good enough. On the other you want those same players to be rewarded with new deals. A bit ridiculous that people aren't able to see this vicious circle.

Where do I say I 'want' these players to re-sign? Couldn't be further from the truth...I'm just explaining why they have been re-signed

 

[Lentwood]

They're not £30m assets though. And transfer fees are amortized so it's not like writing down a balance sheet asset.

Remember the whole 'Schweinsteiger being written-off as an asset' news story about 6-mnths before he left the club on a free transfer?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...rite-off-67m-asset-bastian-schweinsteiger-in/

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Jones has already been renewed, and I think we’re just haggling on wages with Mata right now

I think Mata wants a longer contract.