To be honest, I've given up trying to argue the point on this forum. Everyone cries and cries about getting rid of average or deadwood players, and when the perfect opportunity comes, like for instance, a contract running out, they then begin to cry that we are letting these players go. Well which is it, do you want to let go of players that will not be part of our future so we can give players that will be part of our future a chance, or do you constantly want to moan about the squad whilst simultaneously showing what must be Stockholm Syndrome in wanting to keep them all, because that's all that ever happens on this forum I swear.
We need to be less kind with contract renewals
- Thread starter Zlatattack
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A couple of goals against Liverpool not so long ago? Numerous goals since.
Cracking free kicks against Juventus and Newcastle.
Plenty of assists.
Impeccable attitude, great ambassador for the club, and superb role model.
There are a few behind him in the contribution stakes.
If he's contributed little, why did the Special Juan banner make an appearance?
And Lingard was dire against Liverpool, so if you're determined to judge on lack of contribution...
I'm worried Woody sees him as an easy and cheaper out than actually buying a quality RW. We'll never win the league if Lingard is first choice with Mata as a useless impact sub having players running circles around him.
It’s already happening.
If youngsters can't convince the manager to play them ahead of Mata then it's their problem really. There's no club that sell their squad depth just to give youth chance. If youth are that good they should be pushing themselves ahead of a player who barely plays and has no problem sitting on the bench.
Mata re signing is not inherently wrong. But it is an indication that we will not sign a right sided attacker again. You just know that the money men will be using this as justification because he's going to take up wages and a place in the squad. We know that we have to sell before we buy, so keeping Mata is an indication that we will buy less.
I agree. We should be just letting the contracts of the Likes of jones Valencia and young, mata, darmian run down at this point. Young and Valencia are just past the point of being Utd standard players, but would be a good free agent buy for a newly promoted team etc. Darmian and Jones as well as Rojo were openly up for sale in the summer and no one sniffed at them.
Some demented fans on here seem to think they all have a sale value of 40m each and should have their contracts renewed to protect that sale value.Time to cut our losses and just get rid of them to free up the wage bill and help to smooth us up on the FFP.
Also, someone look at this outfield team without wincing, took the liberty of adding a couple of no hopers we have out on loan down:
Young Jones Rojo Borthwick Jackson
Valencia Mata Fellaini Mctominay Pereira
Wilson
Darmian on bench
Wouldn’t win the conference
Mata is not even a FA cup player. When the 3rd number plate is up, it was Jones ahead of Mata, if it wasn't Jones it would probably be McTom. Some food for thought. Mata is only for 1st division dead rubber game?
Good post mate.
Mata should be offloaded to Arsenal or Everton or Spurs now in my opinion,(edit; added in "or preferably a Spanish club"), because his wage could free up a wage towards a real winger.
There's always going to be fans who want him to stay but Sir Alex would be ruthless with someone if he wanted a better player in.
Deadwood FC does need moving on, but we do still need squad players. Valencia, rojo, mata, fellaini and darmian for starters would be a good start to be let go, it frees up wages and we can get that CB we need badly, hell even a RB I say is needed. With mata gone it also allows us to get a top class attacking RW, so with Valencia, rojo, mata, fellaini and darmian sold or let go we can buy a new RB, RW and CB, we do need a new DM to replace matic, but for now if we can get three deals done a RB,CB and RW for next season would be an awesome start if we can move, Valencia, rojo, darmian, fellaini and mata on. Some of deadwood FC are a problem stopping us signing the weak parts of the squads starting 11
Look Mata might be on a large wage and he might be turning 31 before the start of next season and he might have less goals + assists per minute that all our other attackers both this season and last season and he might be impossible to use in a counter attack system and he might contribute nothing when we don't have the ball and he might be taking up a position where we badly need an upgrade in a bloated squad but that's just nitpicking. He seems like a nice guy therefore he should get a new contract, simple.
We need Mata and Herrera to keep DDG. End of story.
You have listed out all the reasons that Mata should go, just 1 reason that he should stay (the other guy said he is needed for DDG). Why not recruit a nice Spanish winger who is also fast on the right hand side.
If Mata ranks 6th in the pecking order of the 6, this is pretty bad for an experienced player. I don't know why a senior player is contend with this and since he has already won trophy with Chelsea, there is nothing special that Utd can offer. By leaving as free agent, Mata would be able to walk into any club as an affordable player, which isn't the case for Sanchez.
Another example was Teddy Sheringham. But Teddy offered something different tactics wise and Utd offered opportunity of trophy that he could never obtain from his old club. What can Mata offer, breaking down parking bus? Link up play? I don't know, all I know is that he is least useful on counter-attack.
Players like Fred, Pereira are struggling for game time but at least they are new/junior players that have to work on their game.
Another example was Teddy Sheringham. But Teddy offered something different tactics wise and Utd offered opportunity of trophy that he could never obtain from his old club. What can Mata offer, breaking down parking bus? Link up play? I don't know, all I know is that he is least useful on counter-attack.
Players like Fred, Pereira are struggling for game time but at least they are new/junior players that have to work on their game.
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Football fans worry about the weirdest things.
Why does it matter what anyone is paid? If the wage structure is affordable (which it is)...so what?
I don't care how much the person serving me at Starbucks, my local pub, or any of my business suppliers are paid.
Move on...
Why does it matter what anyone is paid? If the wage structure is affordable (which it is)...so what?
I don't care how much the person serving me at Starbucks, my local pub, or any of my business suppliers are paid.
Move on...
Well Barcelona has apparently been in contact regarding Mata, and he's expressed that he misses home.
If he's not playing regularily then I belive he will choose to sign for a team a bit further south, like Juve or Barca, over warming the bench in Manchester.
If he's not playing regularily then I belive he will choose to sign for a team a bit further south, like Juve or Barca, over warming the bench in Manchester.
Velencia, Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Fellaini should be replaced with new quality RW, CM, CD and RB players
I would keep Jones for the time being but the other 4, yes
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More mediocracy getting rewarded. Top professional, nice guy but this isn't charity. We're supposed to be a club aspiring to be the best in the world.
People on here will still be celebrating this renewal though, just like they were with Fellaini, Smalling etc. in recent months. The arguments will be the same as every time a dud renews:
- "Top professional"
- "Excellent guy"
- "Least of our problems"
- "We can't let him leave because there are worse players in the squad"
- "We needed him to renew to get a fee or else he would have left on a free"
- "We need options off the bench"
- "Least of our problems, there are worse players in the squad" - So because a player's contract is up, we should offer him a new deal because he isn't the worst player in the squad? Such a pointless argument. If an average player is out of contract, let him leave. Don't give him a new deal just because there are worse players in the squad. Take care of those 'worse players' when their time comes.
- "He would've left on a free if we didn't renew" - And...? Since when are we getting fees for any of our duds anyway? We're not getting fees because we have mediocre players tied up on big wages. Giving them new deals won't give us leverage, it will only ensure that the players in question remain at the club until their contract is up because no other sane club would even attempt to match their wages.
- "We need options off the bench" - Let him leave on a free, get him off the wage bill and buy a proper RW who will rotate with Lingard. There you go, there is your 'option off the bench'. That is called strengthening the squad.
Hugs.
And now there are talks of Young getting a new deal. This club 
I struggle to believe this myth that Mata cannot fit in this fast attacking football Ole intended to play.
I mean, the guy can play quick transition of passing with ease. Fast attackiing football doesn't mean just fast pace and fast movement, fast passing is also considered as one.
EDIT:
The guy can still make clever runs other players can't do. His silky skills offers something different in the team.
I mean, the guy can play quick transition of passing with ease. Fast attackiing football doesn't mean just fast pace and fast movement, fast passing is also considered as one.
EDIT:
The guy can still make clever runs other players can't do. His silky skills offers something different in the team.
Agree we shouldn't be a soft touch with contract extensions but Mata is worthy of a one year extension for sure.
Agree with this. Surprisingly, he actually impresses me as an impact sub against a team trying to hold out. Can't think of specific examples but I've noticed his speed of play as a sub when looking for goal has impressed me a few times.
Completely agree that we seem to hand out contract extensions as a matter of course, usually to 'protect the asset'. Problem is, you can then have a player that isn't playing much and is picking up a salary too big for anybody to take off our hands. This is why we always seem to sell well below the market value, just to get players off the books. The solution? Don't renew the bloody contract! Cut them loose.
DDG and Martial are contracted until 2020. Hopefully both renew. Looks like Fellaini is off to China. Herrera, Pereira and TFM we should extend I think. Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Valencia, Young, can all go. As for Mata, we just seem a better side when he isn't playing to be brutally honest. Lovely bloke but the concern here is the future of Man Utd. With that in mind, I'd love to see Gomes and Chong get promoted to the first team and Mata go enjoy the last few years of his career back home in Spain.
DDG and Martial are contracted until 2020. Hopefully both renew. Looks like Fellaini is off to China. Herrera, Pereira and TFM we should extend I think. Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Valencia, Young, can all go. As for Mata, we just seem a better side when he isn't playing to be brutally honest. Lovely bloke but the concern here is the future of Man Utd. With that in mind, I'd love to see Gomes and Chong get promoted to the first team and Mata go enjoy the last few years of his career back home in Spain.
I agree that several first team players must go - but some people here seem to think that it would be good if we got rid of the majority of Valencia, Perreira, Fellaini, Rojo, Young, Darmian, Jones and Mata all at once. That is 7 players that needs to be replaced - and I am all for giving youth a chance but none of our youngsters are physically ready to replace them. They should be given chances of course, but Chong or Gomes simply aren't ready to replace Pogba in 3-4 matches if he becomes injured. So realistically if 6-7-8 players go we at least need to sign 5 new players.
At best we can get £30-40 million if we sell those players mentioned - and with the players of the quality we need to replace them, it would cost well over £200 million. I just can't see the board sanction signing players for £200 million - especially if we don't even play in the C.L next season.
So realistically we need to keep a few of those players - and in my opinion the choice is easy. Keep Young, Mata (if he wants to stay) and Jones - and release/sell the others.
At best we can get £30-40 million if we sell those players mentioned - and with the players of the quality we need to replace them, it would cost well over £200 million. I just can't see the board sanction signing players for £200 million - especially if we don't even play in the C.L next season.
So realistically we need to keep a few of those players - and in my opinion the choice is easy. Keep Young, Mata (if he wants to stay) and Jones - and release/sell the others.
Nah, he's been here way too long already.
He may be a good passer but he sure ain't an instinctive one and he takes too many touches to release the ball. As good as his technique, he will always slown down the play.
Since Ole takes charge Man Utd, Mata has only played 5 games out of 9, 4 games not even played for any minute.
0 mins vs Cardiff
81 mins vs Huddersfield
0 mins vs Bournemouth
63 mins vs Newcastle (substituted by Lukaku who score for his first touch)
62 mins vs Reading (score a penalty)
0 mins vs Tottenham
15 mins vs Brighton
0 mins vs Arsenal
90 mins vs Burnley
Quoted from Gary Neville's words a few weeks ago, he said
"Looking at what Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has done, he’s left out Lukaku, he’s left out Mata most of the time, it’s not a reflection of those two players but they do slow down attacks. They can’t move from one box to another quickly.
"They can potentially add things from the bench but they can’t play at this pace, they can’t make the movements of Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Pogba.
“There were always players in the team that could run.
“It’s the basis of every team. You look at Manchester City with Sterling and Sane or Liverpool with Salah and Firmino, every team has to have those players and with the likes of Mata and Lukaku and Fellaini in the team, it was too slow.
The matches vs Newcastle, Burnley prove that Gary Neville was right. Also you can see both Mourinho and Ole or Mike Phelan don't trust Mata to play big matches (0 mins vs Tottenham, Arsenal recently), because of his lack of pace and physical ability. Sometimes he can't handle the high pressing from weak teams as well (vs Brighton).
From tactical point of view, Mata 's best position is pure number 10. However modern football has charged. Defenders and goalkeepers are required to pass the ball, strikers not only scoring goals, but also need to know how to link up team plays. Pure number 10 starts to be eliminated nowadays. You can see Ozil from Arsenal, and James Rodriguez from Bayern, they both struggle under their managers of either playing number 10 or right wing.
People may say, Mata can be rotated with Lingard, however when your PLAN A players are injured, let's say one month, then your rotated players may start for first line-up for 4-5 matches, which may already affected the title challenge. Today vs Burnley is a good example, you can see there is a huge difference of performance starting Mata and Lukaku compared to the last few matches. You have never seen Guardiola and Klopp keep a big guy, or a slow player as their attacking PLAN B option. They sold Bony, Benteke, and keep players with pace and individual ability, because they know even their PLAN A players are injured, the rotated players will not affect their main philosophy too much, not like us, whenever we rotated players, our playing style is completely changed.
From financial point of view, his salary is 140k per week, which is the 5th high of the team, just behind Sanchez, Pogba, De Gea and Lukaku. So is it worth for a player with that little game time? We are Man Utd, i think we should keep a player based on his quality, but not because he is a nice guy. If we still keep Mata, which cannot offer him to play at his best position, cannot play him for the big matches, or even cannot play him against physical and high pressing teams, so what is the point of still keeping him? I can only see the gap between Man City, Liverpool and us will become larger and larger. They keep buying paceful, skillful wingers who can dribble the ball, and we keep our right wing empty.
I think we should offload Mata for free at the end of season, buying a proper RW, or giving chance for Greenwood and Chong, which apparently have more future than him.
0 mins vs Cardiff
81 mins vs Huddersfield
0 mins vs Bournemouth
63 mins vs Newcastle (substituted by Lukaku who score for his first touch)
62 mins vs Reading (score a penalty)
0 mins vs Tottenham
15 mins vs Brighton
0 mins vs Arsenal
90 mins vs Burnley
Quoted from Gary Neville's words a few weeks ago, he said
"Looking at what Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has done, he’s left out Lukaku, he’s left out Mata most of the time, it’s not a reflection of those two players but they do slow down attacks. They can’t move from one box to another quickly.
"They can potentially add things from the bench but they can’t play at this pace, they can’t make the movements of Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Pogba.
“There were always players in the team that could run.
“It’s the basis of every team. You look at Manchester City with Sterling and Sane or Liverpool with Salah and Firmino, every team has to have those players and with the likes of Mata and Lukaku and Fellaini in the team, it was too slow.
The matches vs Newcastle, Burnley prove that Gary Neville was right. Also you can see both Mourinho and Ole or Mike Phelan don't trust Mata to play big matches (0 mins vs Tottenham, Arsenal recently), because of his lack of pace and physical ability. Sometimes he can't handle the high pressing from weak teams as well (vs Brighton).
From tactical point of view, Mata 's best position is pure number 10. However modern football has charged. Defenders and goalkeepers are required to pass the ball, strikers not only scoring goals, but also need to know how to link up team plays. Pure number 10 starts to be eliminated nowadays. You can see Ozil from Arsenal, and James Rodriguez from Bayern, they both struggle under their managers of either playing number 10 or right wing.
People may say, Mata can be rotated with Lingard, however when your PLAN A players are injured, let's say one month, then your rotated players may start for first line-up for 4-5 matches, which may already affected the title challenge. Today vs Burnley is a good example, you can see there is a huge difference of performance starting Mata and Lukaku compared to the last few matches. You have never seen Guardiola and Klopp keep a big guy, or a slow player as their attacking PLAN B option. They sold Bony, Benteke, and keep players with pace and individual ability, because they know even their PLAN A players are injured, the rotated players will not affect their main philosophy too much, not like us, whenever we rotated players, our playing style is completely changed.
From financial point of view, his salary is 140k per week, which is the 5th high of the team, just behind Sanchez, Pogba, De Gea and Lukaku. So is it worth for a player with that little game time? We are Man Utd, i think we should keep a player based on his quality, but not because he is a nice guy. If we still keep Mata, which cannot offer him to play at his best position, cannot play him for the big matches, or even cannot play him against physical and high pressing teams, so what is the point of still keeping him? I can only see the gap between Man City, Liverpool and us will become larger and larger. They keep buying paceful, skillful wingers who can dribble the ball, and we keep our right wing empty.
I think we should offload Mata for free at the end of season, buying a proper RW, or giving chance for Greenwood and Chong, which apparently have more future than him.
all teams needs bench players, or a squad of 25+. Cannot sell/release half the team
The question is in what salary we've offered rather than the fact that we've offered an extension at all.
I'd have no issue offering Mata a one or two year extension of £75k a week as over that period he's sure to contribute more than any youth player who would replace his squad position and we're not going to go out and spend £50m on a player who's happy to play a backup role.
The problem is it's generally reported that we offer players who've transitioned from first team players to squad/backup players an extension on the same terms as they were on when they were either more important or signed to be more important. Ashley Young for example was signed as a first choice winger on somewhere in the region of £100k per week. When we renewed his contract in 2015 his role had become that of a squad full back. His change in role however was apparently not reflected in his new contract offer which was a 3 year extension on at least the same salary. The exact same happened with Jones in 2015 whereby we extended his contract, despite him having transitioned from what we thought was going to be a first choice defender, to an injury prone squad option. The same was the case with Fellaini last Summer.
We need a far stricter policy in terms of what we offer players dependent on their current role. A backup goalkeeper or defender shouldn't be offered more than £40k a week irrespective of whether their previous contract was £80k. A backup attacker shouldn't be offered more than £80k irrespective of whether they were a world record signing on £200k a week.
I'm all for being less kind with contract renewals, provided it isn't to the detriment of the team. At the moment there isn't a youth team player ready to fill Mata's contribution and it would be lunacy to spend tens of millions on a backup player instead of maybe £8-9m in salary for Mata for two years. The other option of course would be to sign a first choice attacker and have all our attackers drop down the pecking order to accommodate. I absolutely wouldn't be against that idea but then we have the same problem with the likes Lukaku/Sanchez earning a combined £30m next season whilst being second choice to Rashford, Martial and A.N Other. If Sanchez/Lukaku don't improve it'd make far more sense to get rid of their £10-15+m annual salary and keep Mata who's providing a similar contribution.
I'd have no issue offering Mata a one or two year extension of £75k a week as over that period he's sure to contribute more than any youth player who would replace his squad position and we're not going to go out and spend £50m on a player who's happy to play a backup role.
The problem is it's generally reported that we offer players who've transitioned from first team players to squad/backup players an extension on the same terms as they were on when they were either more important or signed to be more important. Ashley Young for example was signed as a first choice winger on somewhere in the region of £100k per week. When we renewed his contract in 2015 his role had become that of a squad full back. His change in role however was apparently not reflected in his new contract offer which was a 3 year extension on at least the same salary. The exact same happened with Jones in 2015 whereby we extended his contract, despite him having transitioned from what we thought was going to be a first choice defender, to an injury prone squad option. The same was the case with Fellaini last Summer.
We need a far stricter policy in terms of what we offer players dependent on their current role. A backup goalkeeper or defender shouldn't be offered more than £40k a week irrespective of whether their previous contract was £80k. A backup attacker shouldn't be offered more than £80k irrespective of whether they were a world record signing on £200k a week.
I'm all for being less kind with contract renewals, provided it isn't to the detriment of the team. At the moment there isn't a youth team player ready to fill Mata's contribution and it would be lunacy to spend tens of millions on a backup player instead of maybe £8-9m in salary for Mata for two years. The other option of course would be to sign a first choice attacker and have all our attackers drop down the pecking order to accommodate. I absolutely wouldn't be against that idea but then we have the same problem with the likes Lukaku/Sanchez earning a combined £30m next season whilst being second choice to Rashford, Martial and A.N Other. If Sanchez/Lukaku don't improve it'd make far more sense to get rid of their £10-15+m annual salary and keep Mata who's providing a similar contribution.
To be honest, I don't necessarily agree with the whole 'security - last big contract of his career' schtick. Any of our players would walk into an American or Chinese side, and specifically with the latter, be highly paid for doing so.
It's not exactly like they've been paid peanuts up this point, and if they're not financial stable now, they never will be.
If a player wants to keep playing into his 30s, that's absolutely fine in my opinion, but they should be paid and given a contract commensurate to their value to the club.
It's not exactly like they've been paid peanuts up this point, and if they're not financial stable now, they never will be.
If a player wants to keep playing into his 30s, that's absolutely fine in my opinion, but they should be paid and given a contract commensurate to their value to the club.
I don't think it'd be all that difficult. My my pov i think we need to invest in a RB, RW, CM and CB in the summer. Regardless of cost, because if they don't invest now, we'll only slip further. Others will strengthen we can't afford to be left behind at a time we're catching up.
I'd gladly see Valencia, Darmian, Jones, Mata, Periera, TFM - all follow Fellaini out of the door this summer. The only reason i've not included Rojo is because he's signed a new contract and we need to find a buyer to get rid of him, whereas the rest - we just need to not offer them another contract.
I'd like to keep Young and he still puts in decent performances for us most of the time, but the rest dont. Replacing that bunch can't be that hard.
Valencia (our current first/second/third? choice RB) - New first choice RB
Mata (our current first choice RW/3rd choice CAM) - New first choice RW
Pereira/Fellaini (5th and 6th choice in our midfield)- New first choice CM (+ youngster?)
Darmian (5th choice fullback) - Laird or Mitchell
Jones (4th choice CB) - New first choice CB
TFM - we don't want him back from loan, even though Fulham don't want him. Says it all.
Even if Rojo was sold - we could replace him with Taunzebe who's doing very well at Villa. He is after all 5th choice centre back.
The only people I really want to renew are Martial, DDG and Herrera as they all offer something to the team.
I know 4 first team players is looking close to £200m in todays crazy market, but it's not like we're a poor club. If anyone can afford it, we can. Liverpool spent £177 million last season. Look where they are today.
What are you talking about! Mata is the last person to play fast attacking football. Mata prefers running into space but he is never fast enough. When he runs towards you for the ball, he likes to keep the ball and seldom make instant and/or long pass. Lingard and Sanchez (or Pogba) are much better on quick transition.
Jesus.
It was only a few weeks ago Mata, in back-to-back matches, scored a game-winning free kick, and followed it up with an equalizer in the next game. He literally won us five points by himself a few weeks ago.
It was only a few weeks ago Mata, in back-to-back matches, scored a game-winning free kick, and followed it up with an equalizer in the next game. He literally won us five points by himself a few weeks ago.
Mata struggles to keep up with the fast paced attacking play that Ole is trying to implement. It's the same quick transition and attacking play that we are starting to see more of across Europe. The cycle of 4231 and patient play is ending and high paced, high press is coming in. To get a player like Mata playing in a system like that you have to play him in a very specific role high up the pitch, similar to David Silva. We don't play with a #10 because we have a 3 man midfield of Matic/Herrera/Pogba. Mata doesn't fit and as such should be moved on.
Nice guys who is happy with a place on the bench.
What happened to the days when we had a team of arrogant f*cks all chomping at the bit to play. Thats the attitude i want to see. Not someone who writes a nice blog kissing up to fans no and again.
What happened to the days when we had a team of arrogant f*cks all chomping at the bit to play. Thats the attitude i want to see. Not someone who writes a nice blog kissing up to fans no and again.
We need quality, not quantity. We tried 5 players (Shaw, Blind, Young, Rojo, Darmian) to play left back last season, but eventually we found Young was the most reliable one. It is a joke for such a big team like us. We get five centre backs (Lindelof, Bailly, Smalling, Jones, Rojo), So? Prove that Lindelof is the only one with quality and potentital to this team, and that is why our defend so horrible this season. Vs Burnley match already proved that. Whenever we want to rotate players, there is a big drop of performance, and eventually cost us points (we have the chance to be back to Top 4 if we win this match). Quantity is nothing. We need useful and suitable players.
We are not supposed to be happy for a player who is okay with a place of bench. Mata (140K, 5th high salary), Rojo (80K, only play 10 games last season, two games this season), of course they are happy to stay, but at the end when we are stuggled to offload these players, don't cry for the reason, cause we never learn from the past.
We are not supposed to be happy for a player who is okay with a place of bench. Mata (140K, 5th high salary), Rojo (80K, only play 10 games last season, two games this season), of course they are happy to stay, but at the end when we are stuggled to offload these players, don't cry for the reason, cause we never learn from the past.
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Of your list. At least 3 players are surplus to requirements, if you work on the basis of 2 players for each position (CB, CM, FB). I'd argueMata is the 4th as we don't tend to play with an attacking mid and when we do, Pogba and Lingard are ahead of him.
Getting rid of those 3/4 at the earliest opportunity is just good housekeeping. While letting roughly the same number again expire in the summer allows us to bring through academy players and sign first teamers
Yeah but they never would if they hadn't sold Coutinho for £140 million
Rewarding mediocre players with extensions is far more cost effective to the Glazers as opposed to signing world class quality!