Sad thing is that you cannot shift him to the wing since he cannot dribble or even go past 1 defender with the ball at his feet ...Much as i love Bruno for his commitment and character, I have got a bit tired of his profligacy on the ball and am finding him pretty frustrating to watch. I do think ETH has tried to slow his play down a bit and look for more simple passes sometimes but Bruno's instincts are hollywood passes. I actually think Eriksen would be a big improvement in Bruno's role with his clinical and intelligent passing. A midfield of Casemiro and Fred / McT (depending on the game) and Eriksen could be a better option for certain games. Certainly if we add a new CM to play alongside Casemiro, Eriksen would be class further forward and make much better use of Sancho and Antony.
I think, the issue here is that players can't/ shouldn't/ must not only be evaluated using good or bad plus goals and assists. Players need to have a specific skillset, which needs to fit the gameplan of the manager. Bruno played very successfully, because Oles "system" was based on the things he strives in - no midfield play, fast vertical plan to speedy runners. As soon as opponents didn't allow us the room for it, the machine decelerated quickly.Bruno is a decisive player and his direct play and his belief in his abilities was the reason he came into the team and almost singlehandedly carried our attack for 2 seasons. In those seasons, because of his influence, we finished 3rd and 2nd.
What was his influence? Creating chances out of nothing, scoring goals and linking our attack to the rest of the team on his own, something we hadn't managed since 2013 prior to his arrival.
Now the team has signed good players since then, but the performance of the team hasn't improved. Due to his numbers dropping off and the team not performing well, Bruno is now part of the problem apparently. Now he doesn't have the hold up ability or insane first touch to react to poor possession.
The funny thing is, the problem with our team has been our ability to control the midfield, both in getting the ball back and in moving the ball to the attack. Bruno is a very good pressing player and at times has been the only player in our front 6 that actually harasses the opposition. He's also the only player prior to the arrival of Eriksen that has had the bravery to consistently try and connect our defence and midfield to the attack. Yet somehow he seems to be getting more blame. In fact, some have clamoured for him to be replaced by Eriksen, without actually realizing the workload he's had to endure covering spaces in attack and midfield due to how poorly players around him have pressed since the start of 21-22. In fact, I would make the case, that this, more than anything else, is the reason for a slight drop off in performance. He's expended so much energy in trying to do too many things and covering defensively, that it's affected his ability to attack. Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho have consistently been lazy since last season. Where despite their shortcomings in 20/21, the likes of Cavani, Martial and Rashford were capable of supporting his pressing, this has not been the case over the last season.
What's concerning about the criticism is the premise. We seem to have only ever blamed our highest quality, high profile players during the last ten years. If we got Hazard and he played during this period with his 14/15 form, people here would be saying his overdribbling would be inconducive to a title winning team. We did the same thing with Pogba. Ibrahimovic in 2017 was blocking our attack from flourishing apparently. Di Maria was too selfish too. Yet not enough is said about the true reasons why we have struggled in those periods. Players like Mctominay, Fellani, Herrera, Daniel James, Andreas Pereira, Lingard etc have been consistent features in our front 6. We've also had the likes of Maguire, Smalling, Jones, AWB, Darmian and Telles in the back as well. Yet somehow, despite being our best performers, De Gea, Bruno, Pogba, Lukaku, Ibrahimovic and Di Maria have been the players to get peppered with criticism, discounting all the things they have to deal with. It would be like Tottenham blaming Kane for not winning the league. Eriksen is not better than Bruno. His lack of athleticism has not been nearly as exposed due to not having to cover the no.10 position and that's something a lot of fans are discounting.
Should we change our formation? Maybe. But Bruno should be the first name in our attack, given that he's been our best and most consistent player since the day he arrived. This guy, a midfielder, scored 28 goals and had almost 20 assists in the 20/21 season. This is the guy people want to scapegoat????
Regarding pressing, it's worth remembering that in the PL Bruno isn't that good of a presser, in terms of pressures he has been above average during only one season. People are a bit fooled with players that seem busy.I think, the issue here is that players can't/ shouldn't/ must not only be evaluated using good or bad plus goals and assists. Players need to have a specific skillset, which needs to fit the gameplan of the manager. Bruno played very successfully, because Oles "system" was based on the things he strives in - no midfield play, fast vertical plan to speedy runners. As soon as opponents didn't allow us the room for it, the machine decelerated quickly.
Now we have a manager who values possession more. Because it is the easiest way to get some sort of control of a football game, something that is necessary for a top team to have. Control means, you control the ball and when you have a player who seems incapable of thinking in terms risk-reward then things get tricky.
Plus for all your talk about him being a good presser - think that through. If he is the only player closing down opponents while others sit back, he is doing nothing but creating space behind him. So he not only wastes energy but also creates issues for his team mates in defense.
Granted, he looks busy, he knows what things to say to make fans happy. And I agree, he isn't on top of the list of our issues. I actually hope, that ETH is able to teach him one or two things. But there is a reason, why other teams didn't go for him, he is a risky player. Some teams can balance that out, some can't.
Just search ‘we will never win the league with’ and you will get your answer.Which other players have had a thread started about them saying we'll never win a league with them?
Apart from Pogba.
Well none of them are good enough to be fair.I thought De Gea/Maguire/Shaw/Rashford/Sancho/McTominay/Fred were the ones to blame!
It should have because these games show the good and bad sides in equal measures, I think that I made a similar point about McTominay and his very low possession contribution during his good spells. Against both Liverpool and Arsenal Bruno showed how his positive contribution work, while our midfield was totally dominated and we couldn't take back control of the middle third, Bruno found success in being extremely direct and exploiting the space left by Liverpool and Arsenal who were both able to easily break through our midfield but struggled to displace our back four and create easy chances, they brought more players forwards and left a lot of space for mainly Rashford and Bruno. And in both games the better performers were probably Dalot, Varane and Martinez.Would this thread be created after Liverpool's or Arsenal's game? We know what the answer would be.
The result and fighting spirit from a team in survival mode was what made it special, the workrate was worthy of commendation but the actual overall performance was nothing special. This one isnt restricted to only BrunoWould this thread be created after Liverpool's or Arsenal's game? We know what the answer would be.
He's clearly been instructed to cover, especially when he plays with Ronaldo. The players around him not pressing well is a bad thing on their part. Every manager we've had since Ole clearly wants to press.I think, the issue here is that players can't/ shouldn't/ must not only be evaluated using good or bad plus goals and assists. Players need to have a specific skillset, which needs to fit the gameplan of the manager. Bruno played very successfully, because Oles "system" was based on the things he strives in - no midfield play, fast vertical plan to speedy runners. As soon as opponents didn't allow us the room for it, the machine decelerated quickly.
Now we have a manager who values possession more. Because it is the easiest way to get some sort of control of a football game, something that is necessary for a top team to have. Control means, you control the ball and when you have a player who seems incapable of thinking in terms risk-reward then things get tricky.
Plus for all your talk about him being a good presser - think that through. If he is the only player closing down opponents while others sit back, he is doing nothing but creating space behind him. So he not only wastes energy but also creates issues for his team mates in defense.
Granted, he looks busy, he knows what things to say to make fans happy. And I agree, he isn't on top of the list of our issues. I actually hope, that ETH is able to teach him one or two things. But there is a reason, why other teams didn't go for him, he is a risky player. Some teams can balance that out, some can't.
This thread being created after the Liverpool and Arsenal games would have been a completely new level of negativity.It should have because these games show the good and bad sides in equal measures, I think that I made a similar point about McTominay and his very low possession contribution during his good spells. Against both Liverpool and Arsenal Bruno showed how his positive contribution work, while our midfield was totally dominated and we couldn't take back control of the middle third, Bruno found success in being extremely direct and exploiting the space left by Liverpool and Arsenal who were both able to easily break through our midfield but struggled to displace our back four and create easy chances, they brought more players forwards and left a lot of space for mainly Rashford and Bruno. And in both games the better performers were probably Dalot, Varane and Martinez.
Now the issue when our back four doesn't sustain the relentless attacking waves from the opponent is that we end up with what happened against City or Brighton where our midfield was creating turnovers after turnovers while being useless defensively. And obviously the issue is bigger than Bruno, he is just one of the pieces that need to be fixed whether it is through coaching or substitution. But we can't just look away and act as if we couldn't see the issue.
Great post. Bruno will be fine. Ten Hag will get United working a treat in the not too distant future. When he does, Bruno will be a key performer in the team. Maybe even a title winning team....Bruno is a decisive player and his direct play and his belief in his abilities was the reason he came into the team and almost singlehandedly carried our attack for 2 seasons. In those seasons, because of his influence, we finished 3rd and 2nd.
What was his influence? Creating chances out of nothing, scoring goals and linking our attack to the rest of the team on his own, something we hadn't managed since 2013 prior to his arrival.
Now the team has signed good players since then, but the performance of the team hasn't improved. Due to his numbers dropping off and the team not performing well, Bruno is now part of the problem apparently. Now he doesn't have the hold up ability or insane first touch to react to poor possession.
The funny thing is, the problem with our team has been our ability to control the midfield, both in getting the ball back and in moving the ball to the attack. Bruno is a very good pressing player and at times has been the only player in our front 6 that actually harasses the opposition. He's also the only player prior to the arrival of Eriksen that has had the bravery to consistently try and connect our defence and midfield to the attack. Yet somehow he seems to be getting more blame. In fact, some have clamoured for him to be replaced by Eriksen, without actually realizing the workload he's had to endure covering spaces in attack and midfield due to how poorly players around him have pressed since the start of 21-22. In fact, I would make the case, that this, more than anything else, is the reason for a slight drop off in performance. He's expended so much energy in trying to do too many things and covering defensively, that it's affected his ability to attack. Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho have consistently been lazy since last season. Where despite their shortcomings in 20/21, the likes of Cavani, Martial and Rashford were capable of supporting his pressing, this has not been the case over the last season.
What's concerning about the criticism is the premise. We seem to have only ever blamed our highest quality, high profile players during the last ten years. If we got Hazard and he played during this period with his 14/15 form, people here would be saying his overdribbling would be inconducive to a title winning team. We did the same thing with Pogba. Ibrahimovic in 2017 was blocking our attack from flourishing apparently. Di Maria was too selfish too. Yet not enough is said about the true reasons why we have struggled in those periods. Players like Mctominay, Fellani, Herrera, Daniel James, Andreas Pereira, Lingard etc have been consistent features in our front 6. We've also had the likes of Maguire, Smalling, Jones, AWB, Darmian and Telles in the back as well. Yet somehow, despite being our best performers, De Gea, Bruno, Pogba, Lukaku, Ibrahimovic and Di Maria have been the players to get peppered with criticism, discounting all the things they have to deal with. It would be like Tottenham blaming Kane for not winning the league. Eriksen is not better than Bruno. His lack of athleticism has not been nearly as exposed due to not having to cover the no.10 position and that's something a lot of fans are discounting.
Should we change our formation? Maybe. But Bruno should be the first name in our attack, given that he's been our best and most consistent player since the day he arrived. This guy, a midfielder, scored 28 goals and had almost 20 assists in the 20/21 season. This is the guy people want to scapegoat????
Threads/posts will always be reactionary to the final result in the last game, doesn't mean there weren't issues. The City result was coming despite talk on here of title challenges, best defence in the league etc.Would this thread be created after Liverpool's or Arsenal's game? We know what the answer would be.
I’m sure you have by now seen the answer to your question, but this is the latest in a sequence of threads of similar nature. It has nothing to do with the City result, and more a continuation of something I’ve been saying on here for years now.This thread being created after the Liverpool and Arsenal games would have been a completely new level of negativity.
My opinions on Bruno Fernandes in this thread are anything BUT reactionary. I’ve gone back and forth on the same topic for years.Threads/posts will always be reactionary to the final result in the last game, doesn't mean there weren't issues. The City result was coming despite talk on here of title challenges, best defence in the league etc.
I agree with it completely but I'm talking in general, you would have just got shot down or ignored posting after a win.My opinions on Bruno Fernandes in this thread are anything BUT reactionary. I’ve gone back and forth on the same topic for years.
You made similar points in June in a thread about Eriksen vs Bruno and also during previous seasons. To some extent I suspect that people are largely pushing back because Bruno is a good to very good player and it doesn't feel right to target him when we have been generally subpar and lacking in that level of talent.My opinions on Bruno Fernandes in this thread are anything BUT reactionary. I’ve gone back and forth on the same topic for years.
The massive difference between the three is that Bruno runs his backside off.You made similar points in June in a thread about Eriksen vs Bruno and also during previous seasons. To some extent I suspect that people are largely pushing back because Bruno is a good to very good player and it doesn't feel right to target him when we have been generally subpar and lacking in that level of talent.
Now, the reason I agree with you and think that people are being mistaken is that they look at the individual and ignore his impact or lack of impact on the collective. Personally I have the same issue with Bruno that I had with Pogba or had with Ibrahimovic. Individually they are good to great but how do you use them effectively at the highest level in functional teams?
Actually, when one of your main midfielders constantly struggles in big games and gives up the ball with stupid passes it tends to be a big problem.We are not even close to win another EPL soon so he's the least of our problem, for now.
Only if that running is well placed though. Go back and watch last weekend, he's off pressing of his own volition clearly outside of the team structure often, and gets played through like butter. Similarly when he makes freelancing sprints while we are in possession instead of keeping shape to pull defenders out of position. I said it in previous years but we basically play a 424 in most games with him, and that's always going to get us run over in midfield while relying on him to have a brilliant game in the final third to keep us in the game.The massive difference between the three is that Bruno runs his backside off.
Makes him a lot easier to be part of a functional team.
Indeed. And Bruno isn’t the first player that this conversation has been held about, nor is he probably even the best player, which is part of the reason why I don’t understand the unwillingness to even explore it for some (even if they ultimately disagree). It’s a conversation, and should be a reasoned one, from both sides. On this very team, Ronaldo scored 24 goals last season and the consensus was that he is somehow harming the collective develop. De Gea has been an outstanding goalkeeper, THE outstanding goalkeeper in England for the last decade. Yet most accept it about him.You made similar points in June in a thread about Eriksen vs Bruno and also during previous seasons. To some extent I suspect that people are largely pushing back because Bruno is a good to very good player and it doesn't feel right to target him when we have been generally subpar and lacking in that level of talent.
Now, the reason I agree with you and think that people are being mistaken is that they look at the individual and ignore his impact or lack of impact on the collective. Personally I have the same issue with Bruno that I had with Pogba or had with Ibrahimovic. Individually they are good to great but how do you use them effectively at the highest level in functional teams?
It's a pointless difference when outside of one season for United he has been a below average presser and his defensive positioning is terrible. He runs, no one can take that away from him but he doesn't do it in a useful or efficient way, at least not for a midfielder. And he is also a below average tackler for a midfielder.The massive difference between the three is that Bruno runs his backside off.
Makes him a lot easier to be part of a functional team.