We've got a Top 4 squad...

I know you didnt mention Forrest but if they're good enough to achieve top 8 then we are.

Based on current form i can see where you're coming from, my view is based on where our players have been and where i think they should be. I havent included Hojlund in my list, but last season i thought he was on track to progress to a good level, although this year of course has been terrible.

Obviously just my opinion but the following i think would be in the Spurs team:

Maxraoui
Yoro
Shaw
De Ligt
Martinez

Mainoo
Casemiro
Bruno

Garnacho
Amad

Mazroui is not better than Porro, Porro is just a really great attacking threat from fullback. Funny he was a key player in Amorim turning around Sporting.

Casemiro is not better than any midfielder at Spurs. He can’t run or cover ground. He is not a PL midfielder any longer period.

Bruno sure (but we are talking about the squad) Maddison, Bentancur, Sarr, Bergvil, Gray and Bissouma. Thats the list of CMs they have available

Mainoo is a similar level talent to Bergvil who is a squad player for them (very highly rated young midfielder) thats before mentioning Archie Gray who many wanted to sign for United last summer.

Yoro is a young CB playing his first season in the PL

Van De Ven and Romero are two good PL Cbs they also have Danso for cover who is also like Yoro a talented and rated CB from france (Yoro is rated higher of course)

I would actually say CB is close. Romero and Martinez I rate similar

Van De Ven might edge out De Ligt but that can go either way

And then Yoro over Danso.

I won’t even mention Luke fecking Shaw I would take Destiny Odogie at United in a heartbeat.

Garnacho much of muchness Kulusevski is better than both him and Amad.

I think you just underrate the Spurs squad a bit. Which isn’t the uncommon since they have had a really poor season this year. But there is a reason we have not beaten them is over 7 games.
 
Mazroui is not better than Porro, Porro is just a really great attacking threat from fullback. Funny he was a key player in Amorim turning around Sporting.

Casemiro is not better than any midfielder at Spurs. He can’t run or cover ground. He is not a PL midfielder any longer period.

Bruno sure (but we are talking about the squad) Maddison, Bentancur, Sarr, Bergvil, Gray and Bissouma. Thats the list of CMs they have available

Mainoo is a similar level talent to Bergvil who is a squad player for them (very highly rated young midfielder) thats before mentioning Archie Gray who many wanted to sign for United last summer.

Yoro is a young CB playing his first season in the PL

Van De Ven and Romero are two good PL Cbs they also have Danso for cover who is also like Yoro a talented and rated CB from france (Yoro is rated higher of course)

I would actually say CB is close. Romero and Martinez I rate similar

Van De Ven might edge out De Ligt but that can go either way

And then Yoro over Danso.

I won’t even mention Luke fecking Shaw I would take Destiny Odogie at United in a heartbeat.

Garnacho much of muchness Kulusevski is better than both him and Amad.

I think you just underrate the Spurs squad a bit. Which isn’t the uncommon since they have had a really poor season this year. But there is a reason we have not beaten them is over 7 games.


All fair points, its not how i see it and the last line is very true and same can be said for our squad in regards the poor season, but as i say, fair comments :+1:
 
Mazroui is not better than Porro, Porro is just a really great attacking threat from fullback. Funny he was a key player in Amorim turning around Sporting.

Casemiro is not better than any midfielder at Spurs. He can’t run or cover ground. He is not a PL midfielder any longer period.

Bruno sure (but we are talking about the squad) Maddison, Bentancur, Sarr, Bergvil, Gray and Bissouma. Thats the list of CMs they have available

Mainoo is a similar level talent to Bergvil who is a squad player for them (very highly rated young midfielder) thats before mentioning Archie Gray who many wanted to sign for United last summer.

Yoro is a young CB playing his first season in the PL

Van De Ven and Romero are two good PL Cbs they also have Danso for cover who is also like Yoro a talented and rated CB from france (Yoro is rated higher of course)

I would actually say CB is close. Romero and Martinez I rate similar

Van De Ven might edge out De Ligt but that can go either way

And then Yoro over Danso.

I won’t even mention Luke fecking Shaw I would take Destiny Odogie at United in a heartbeat.

Garnacho much of muchness Kulusevski is better than both him and Amad.

I think you just underrate the Spurs squad a bit. Which isn’t the uncommon since they have had a really poor season this year. But there is a reason we have not beaten them is over 7 games.


Van De Ven and Romero are two of the best CBs in the league. They showed that Wednesday.
 
People thought McTominay's level was bottom half standard when he was playing for you. I can remember after one game on here someone gleefully pointed out he'd only touched the ball eight times in one half.

I think this season has given a sobering reminder of what bottom half is and while he wasn't an amazing midfield Scotland and Napoli massively play to his strengths and he's had a brilliant season.

Maybe people turned their noses up at pushing him off the striker and going more direct but end of the day doing that with Maguire v Lyon gave you one of the best moments at OT for a few years.

You do not sign better players anymore than what they're signed to replace. Ugarte gives you nothing if he was the sort of McTominay replacement and indeed Casemiro had a better season and he was seen as finished last year.

Onana worse than De Gea, I really don't think De Ligt is much better than Maguire and even your best value signing of last summer which is Mazraoui is just the same as AWB, solid defensively but dosen't offer anything past the halfway line.

Can't really argue with any of that.

I think as a fan base that has been used to seeing truly elite players it's difficult seeing good/average players playing for us. There isn't a single player over the last five years that would be in my all time eleven of United players.

I think we need a complete reset in our thinking about the types of players we can realistically sign now and will have to be very patient as it feels like we are the furthest away we've ever been.

We probably need to ride out the next two or three seasons and concentrate on just staying in this league and gradually getting the likes of Luke Shaw and Mason Mount off the wage bill and effectively almost starting a squad from scratch.
 
Van De Ven and Romero are two of the best CBs in the league. They showed that Wednesday.
And last season. I don’t disagree but Martinez and De Ligt are also very good Cbs too and Yoro looks like he will be too
 
For me this squad falls into a number of catagories.

Past it......
Erikson, Casemiro, Lindelof, Shaw, Evans

Not good enough....
Hojlund, Onana, Dalot and Zirkzee (harsh but i dont believe he has a place in a PL team playing a central striker)

Not here...
Sanco, Rashford, Antony

Finding Feet in PL....
Maz, De Ligt, Ugarte

Crocks....
Mount, Martinez

Young Talent
Garnacho, Yoro, Mainoo, Dorgu, Amad, Heaven

And then Bruno who we can rely on most weeks. And this is the crux because if you look at other top 8 PL teams and you will see a group of at least 8 players that a manager can rely on each and every week.
 
There’s a lot wrong with that. Garnacho has zero end product, Mainoo has been poor this season and is no longer deserving of that starting spot based on what he’s produced, Martinez constantly injured. So that’s 3 players who haven’t shown they’re good enough or fit enough to be part of a top 4 squad. On top of the 3 players you believe we need. That’s now 6 slots that I believe need therefore. I also have my doubts about Mazraoui at RB. He offers nothing going forward, so he’d have to be in to strictly defend. Every team in the top 4 has a RB that can contribute to attacking phases. So that’s potentially 7/11 positions that I’m not convinced are top 4 quality right now.

While I get the frustration, I think there's a bit of an overreaction here. Yes, Mainoo and Garnacho haven’t hit the heights many of us hoped for this season, but let’s not forget — they’re still incredibly young, and this will be another full season of top-flight experience under their belts. Both have shown flashes of genuine quality, and with proper development under a top-class manager, I believe they could be key players in a top four side.

Garnacho, for instance, is clearly at his best as a winger — that's been evident under Ten Hag. His ability to beat players, stretch defences, and inject urgency into our attacks is a valuable asset, even if the end product is still maturing. Mainoo, meanwhile, is far better suited to a three-man midfield than being forced into a double pivot. He’s got the intelligence and calmness on the ball, but needs the right structure around him to thrive.

Martinez’s injury issues are a concern, no doubt — but let’s not act like we’re short of options. Between Yoro and Heaven, and even De Ligt, we’re not stacked, but in my opinion, we’ve got enough there for a top four challenge, especially if everyone stays reasonably fit.

As for Mazraoui, he’s a balanced right-back. He’s not Trent but he does his job. Is he really any worse going forward than someone like Ben White or Timber? It’s about the system — if the rest of the team is functioning well, he doesn’t need to be a creative hub. And if more progression is needed from that side, we’ve got Dalot, who is probably a better attacking option anyway.

Top four is absolutely achievable with the right tactical setup and a manager who knows how to get the best out of this group. It’s not a perfect squad, but it’s not seven players short of contention either.

A top keeper, midfielder and striker would make so much of a difference.

That said, it doesn’t look like Amorim is going anywhere anytime soon. All signs point toward the club backing him significantly, with reports suggesting he’ll be given a transfer budget of around £100 million, plus any funds generated from player sales. That kind of backing signals trust — and a serious intent to reshape the squad in his image.

If we look at his track record, Amorim isn’t afraid to be bold. In his first full season at Sporting CP, he oversaw a major overhaul, clearing out a number of senior players and bringing in at least 10 new signings to build a team that fit his philosophy.

It wouldn’t be a surprise to see a similar approach here. The squad clearly needs refinement, and if Amorim is to succeed, recruitment will have to be spot on. Every signing must fit the tactical framework, not just fill gaps. His system demands intelligence, versatility, and high work-rate — traits that can’t be compromised on.
 
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Lu
Top 4 teams score goals. We don't have enough players who do that. We consistently, season after season, finish on negative goal difference. There are some good players in our squad - and every other squad in the league.
Lukaku and Mctominay scored some big goals yesterday.
 
Spurs were missing their Bruno in Maddison and still beat us for the 4th time out of 4. Clearly a bit better than us
 
————————-—Delap—————————

—————————-Cunha————————-

——-Fernandes—-Ederson—Mainoo——

Hernandez————————————Amad

————Yoro——Maguire——De Ligt——-

—————————Garcia—————————-


This popped into my head this morning. I’d prefer it over the 5-2-2-1. I tried to be as realistic with signings as I could think.
 
Mazroui is not better than Porro, Porro is just a really great attacking threat from fullback. Funny he was a key player in Amorim turning around Sporting.

Casemiro is not better than any midfielder at Spurs. He can’t run or cover ground. He is not a PL midfielder any longer period.

Bruno sure (but we are talking about the squad) Maddison, Bentancur, Sarr, Bergvil, Gray and Bissouma. Thats the list of CMs they have available

Mainoo is a similar level talent to Bergvil who is a squad player for them (very highly rated young midfielder) thats before mentioning Archie Gray who many wanted to sign for United last summer.

Yoro is a young CB playing his first season in the PL

Van De Ven and Romero are two good PL Cbs they also have Danso for cover who is also like Yoro a talented and rated CB from france (Yoro is rated higher of course)

I would actually say CB is close. Romero and Martinez I rate similar

Van De Ven might edge out De Ligt but that can go either way

And then Yoro over Danso.

I won’t even mention Luke fecking Shaw I would take Destiny Odogie at United in a heartbeat.

Garnacho much of muchness Kulusevski is better than both him and Amad.

I think you just underrate the Spurs squad a bit. Which isn’t the uncommon since they have had a really poor season this year. But there is a reason we have not beaten them is over 7 games.
Kulusevski has had a high level the last 3 seasons or so but not sure he's currently better than Amad, whilst Amad is improving. They were pretty bad on Wednesday and, a few nice crosses and Richarlison hold-up aside, played it like a L1 side in a cup tie: basic analysis of the game shows how little control they had over the outcomes, given what United could have potentially done (probability of Bruno scoring from outside box or creating a chance via a free kick/corner, of which we had a number; the VdV clearance was good agility but also fortunate etc). Midfield was generally uncreative except for the one ball that Onana made a hash of and led to the goal.

Most of the reason we haven't beaten them has been through setting up the team wrongly to deal with their fairly crude physical intensity, something the recruitment team needs to look into (you can find 3-4 Sarrs a season in Ligue 1: United have neglected that kind of physical, technically decent ball carrier, but he's not a unicorn player either) . If the table doesn't lie re. United, it doesn't re Spurs ether, who finished below: they had injuries,s but we had crucial players out of periods of time too (Amad; even Zirkzee, who was getting into form pre injury and would have likely started the final if he'd been fit)
 
Kulusevski has had a high level the last 3 seasons or so but not sure he's currently better than Amad, whilst Amad is improving. They were pretty bad on Wednesday and, a few nice crosses and Richarlison hold-up aside, played it like a L1 side in a cup tie: basic analysis of the game shows how little control they had over the outcomes, given what United could have potentially done (probability of Bruno scoring from outside box or creating a chance via a free kick/corner, of which we had a number; the VdV clearance was good agility but also fortunate etc). Midfield was generally uncreative except for the one ball that Onana made a hash of and led to the goal.

Most of the reason we haven't beaten them has been through setting up the team wrongly to deal with their fairly crude physical intensity, something the recruitment team needs to look into (you can find 3-4 Sarrs a season in Ligue 1: United have neglected that kind of physical, technically decent ball carrier, but he's not a unicorn player either) . If the table doesn't lie re. United, it doesn't re Spurs ether, who finished below: they had injuries,s but we had crucial players out of periods of time too (Amad; even Zirkzee, who was getting into form pre injury and would have likely started the final if he'd been fit)
They defended very well. They played to sit back and play on the counter.

They missed their two creative players in Kulu and Maddison.

We were by far the better team but I think alot of that was to do with how the teams setup than the quality of the players