We've got a Top 4 squad...

[GlazersHater]

If a Top 4 squad means a squad expected to finish in the Top 4 by the end of the season and that can reasonably expect to end up in the 3rd-6th range based on form and injuries, then I think we marginally have one. We have good enough players to achieve it if we use formations that play to their strengths. ETH couldn't manage this and got sacked, while Amorim is deliberately refusing to do so, and our short-term results are suffering because of it.

Anyway, the problem right now is that the team sheets being put out each week are definitely not Top 4 quality. They're mid-table level at best, and it shows. Failing to sign a top striker and a quality left-back in particular was criminal from the people in charge.

The biggest issue for me is that most of our supposedly senior and highest-paid players are either injured, frozen out, or sitting on the bench. Then, we end up starting a bunch of kids who are not ready yet and crumble under pressure.

For reference, the players who are supposed to be the core of the team are:

Rank	Player	Gross pay per week	Gross pay per year
1	Casemiro	£350,000	£18,200,000
=2	Bruno Fernandes	£300,000	£15,600,000
=2	Marcus Rashford	£300,000	£15,600,000
4	Mason Mount	£250,000	£13,000,000
5	Antony	£200,000	£10,400,000
6	Matthijs de Ligt	£195,000	£10,140,000
7	Harry Maguire	£190,000	£9,880,000
=8	Luke Shaw	£150,000	£7,800,000
=8	Christian Eriksen	£150,000	£7,800,000
10	Noussair Mazraoui	£135,000	£7,020,000

Salary, of course, isn’t the ultimate metric, and the exact numbers might be off due to CL clauses, but it’s a good enough benchmark. The only ones who are somewhat performing are Fernandes, De Ligt, Maguire, and Mazraoui. Aside from Rashford, I don’t recall the others having much of an impact on our season, and that can’t be motivating for the younger players. Ironically, Bruno, the one who works the hardest, gets the most flak here.

Ffs what a nightmare 7 out of our 10 best paid players aren't even starters.

 

[always_hoping]

Not a top 4 squad proved further today. 1-0 down against Wolves and you are depending on subs Zirkee,Antony and Eriksen to try to nick a draw instead concede again to lose 2-0.

 

[sideshow_bob]

No need for this thread anymore. Clear as day squad is shite.

 

[FattyFooty]

What i dont understand is how anyone can say we have a top 4 squad.

Our players are as medicore as it gets, When we are talking PL level.

Take Højlund and Zirkzee as examples, none of them has ever reached 10 league goals in a good league. Then we come and pay allmost 140 mill for them combined. Why are they expected to make more goals here?

And we done this for years. I dont think i see 1 fully proven top PL player in this team. Certainly not a world class player.
Diallo looks great, but will he continue to improve? We dont know...

This squad is a 8-14 pl team imo.
If Amorin without transfers gets us above 8, then its kinda surprising to me.

 

[gulli_G]

I'm struggling to name 4 starters let alone work out our league position.

 

[Someone]

I think because we've wasted so much money in the past on poor recruitment, some people think that once we start making better decisions on players, we'll be back on top. That ignores the fact that we weren't that far behind in the past. We finished 2nd under Van gaal, Mourinho, and Ole, and even finished 3rd under ETH.

If we want to challenge for titles, we'll need significant investment to bridge the gap. I really don't know if the club is ready for that.

 

[Royalmantis]

We absolutely don't, there's so much deadwood I don't even know where to begin with, this a proper midtable team sadly.

 

[Wolfbot]

Replies like these just prove how overrated Odegaard has become at this point.

Bruno is comfortably a better #10 than him, but I guess Odegaard has good looking body feints!

No danger is he overrated. He's become an absolute cracking player. He sets the tempo of Arsenal's attacking play, brilliant at keeping the ball moving in tight areas, and gets the best out of Saka (another of Arsenal's key players).

There's not a chance you actually watch United and Arsenal regularly and genuinely believe Bruno is a better player.

I accept that Bruno is just about our only creative player and overall creates a high number of opportunities, but there are plenty number 10s that are much tidier players overall. That's why they play in teams that are at the top end of the league and we're in 14th.

With Bruno it's not an issue of not creating chances, it's the amount of wastefulness in passing and shooting. Proper top players don't waste the ball as much as he does.

 

[Drifter]

Forget top 4; we are flirting with relegation

 

[Hester_manc]

We have some players who could play for a top 4 team. But we also have players who do not belong in the PL. Together, our squad is no more than a middle team. Newcastle, Tottenham, Villa and Brighton have stronger squads than us.

 

[Hud12]

Realistically I’d like to see a squad like this next season if we miss out on Europe


New keeper
Bayindir (if we have a youth team keeper better sell)

Dalot
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Yoro
Maguire (extend for a year)
Martinez
New CB
Amass
New LWB

Ugarte
Mainoo
New CM
Mount

Diallo
Hoijlund
Garnacho
New ST
New AM

They’re only 20 players there.6 would be new signings, realistically a couple of them 6 would have to be done on the cheap too,

There’s a few holes in the squad, like Mount down as a CM for example but getting Casemiro off the books is vital, Eriksens contracts up and I just want to see the back of Bruno at this point, I’d hang on to Maguire for one more year cause we’ve too much to do without signing 2 CBs (Evans and Lindelof are out of contract)

20 players and a few academy products should get you through a season without Europe if you can manage to keep the squad fit,

That should clear an absolute fortune off the wage bill and you’d hope that between the likes of Onana, Shaw, Malacia, Casemiro, Rashford (hopefully can get rid of him next month) Anthony, Zirkzee and Bruno that we could raise a few quid to add to the budget to maybe get the 6 in, realistically we’d do well to get anything for Shaw and Casemiro unless Saudi or the likes are involved.

It’s really a complete mess

 

[JoseM4]

Lots of comments across the forum referencing the state the squad is in, and us needing (another) overhaul. This just isnt the case in my view, we've got a strong squad and one that SHOULD be more than capable of achieving top 4.

Resurrecting an old thread to make the point it wasn’t long ago some people thought we could finish in the top 4.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Resurrecting an old thread to make the point it wasn’t long ago some people thought we could finish in the top 4.

Just change the thread title to Bottom Four Squad.

 

[TheNewEra]

Bottom 4

 

[Rozay]

We don’t, mainly because of a lack of goals.

We have a better squad than appears though. We need a better coach though and a proper project that is going somewhere. After that, I think we only need 3 new players, a couple more if you consider depth.

I have confidence that:

Goalkeeper

Dalot/Mazraoui
Yoro
Heaven
Dorgu

Midfielder
Mainoo
Koné

Amad
Striker
Garnacho

Can challenge by 2028.

To get us to 28, and also to provide depth beyond 28:

Dalot/Mazraoui
De Ligt
Maguire
Amass/Leon

Ugarte
Casemiro (one more year for experience)
Bruno (probably one more year)

Zirkzee and Obi if he is good enough.

Can all provide cover/take up starting positions until phased out organically. We will also need to buy two new wingers. To provide cover/competition to Amad and Garnacho.

I don’t think we’re as far as is made out provided we get those signings right. The right keeper, midfielder and centre forward with that young team, with the experience of Bruno, Casa, De Ligt, Maguire, Ugarte too can get us where we need to be. But we need to start now and ditch this 352 nonsense immediately.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Top 4 teams score goals. We don't have enough players who do that. We consistently, season after season, finish on negative goal difference. There are some good players in our squad - and every other squad in the league.

 

[tentan]

Top four? For the championship maybe

 

[M Bison]

Resurrecting an old thread to make the point it wasn’t long ago some people thought we could finish in the top 4.

Weird bump after that disappointment but whatever floats your boat.

Still believe this to be the case (top 4 might be ambitious tbf but certainly top 6-8) , the squad is miles better than it’s showing. It’s a management issue.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

No we have maybe top 10 squad at max but have a championship manager, that's why we at top 16 collectively.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

A squad devoid of creativity. No wonder we hardly score goals

 

[Mubs]

We don’t, mainly because of a lack of goals.

We have a better squad than appears though. We need a better coach though and a proper project that is going somewhere. After that, I think we only need 3 new players, a couple more if you consider depth.

I have confidence that:

Goalkeeper

Dalot/Mazraoui
Yoro
Heaven
Dorgu

Midfielder
Mainoo
Koné

Amad
Striker
Garnacho

Can challenge by 2028.

To get us to 28, and also to provide depth beyond 28:

Dalot/Mazraoui
De Ligt
Maguire
Amass/Leon

Ugarte
Casemiro (one more year for experience)
Bruno (probably one more year)

Zirkzee and Obi if he is good enough.

Can all provide cover/take up starting positions until phased out organically. We will also need to buy two new wingers. To provide cover/competition to Amad and Garnacho.

I don’t think we’re as far as is made out provided we get those signings right. The right keeper, midfielder and centre forward with that young team, with the experience of Bruno, Casa, De Ligt, Maguire, Ugarte too can get us where we need to be. But we need to start now and ditch this 352 nonsense immediately.

'provided we get those signings right'

It all falls over here.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Weird bump after that disappointment but whatever floats your boat.

Still believe this to be the case (top 4 might be ambitious tbf but certainly top 6-8) , the squad is miles better than it’s showing. It’s a management issue.

Agreed. Just because we’re being setup not to score and pass along a 5 man backline for eternity doesn’t mean there would be a start improvement under someone else.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

We have a goalkeeper and a striker that would be fringe players at a championship club.

No manager and no squad can overcome that and be successful.

The rest? There are some decent players in there, but we need creativity, we need goals and we need a goalkeeper at the bare minimum.

 

[Wolfbot]

A squad devoid of creativity. No wonder we hardly score goals

It's not even creativity that's the biggest issue sadly. It's absolutely mental the amount of times our players seem to make a hash of the fundamentals. You need quick crisp passes into feet or well weighted balls into space to trouble any team, so often we watch our players over or under hit, play it slightly behind the target, telegraph it to the opposition and in 99% of cases there's no reason for that.

I do agree that we struggle for creativity outside of Bruno and Amad, but if we're not even getting the basics right, we won't create anything.

 

[Roboc7]

The spine of Palace’s team is better than ours, and they cost a fraction of the money in wages. Our squad is packed full of very ordinary players, we have one player that stands out and he probably doesn’t have long left at his peak.

It’s not a top four squad but it’s not a bottom four one either. We are one of the pack now, form, luck, injuries dictating where we finish in that pack.

We rarely face a team in the league where a combined eleven falls in our favour, the other team is either better or on par.

That’s got to change over the next few years.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

This thread aged like a fine wine.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

No way this was a real thread? Without Bruno we have a relegation level squad. Weak mentalities, weak bodies, low IQ squad of players who are paid far too much for what they do...and that's being generous.

 

[FootballHQ]

People thought McTominay's level was bottom half standard when he was playing for you. I can remember after one game on here someone gleefully pointed out he'd only touched the ball eight times in one half.

I think this season has given a sobering reminder of what bottom half is and while he wasn't an amazing midfield Scotland and Napoli massively play to his strengths and he's had a brilliant season.

Maybe people turned their noses up at pushing him off the striker and going more direct but end of the day doing that with Maguire v Lyon gave you one of the best moments at OT for a few years.

You do not sign better players anymore than what they're signed to replace. Ugarte gives you nothing if he was the sort of McTominay replacement and indeed Casemiro had a better season and he was seen as finished last year.

Onana worse than De Gea, I really don't think De Ligt is much better than Maguire and even your best value signing of last summer which is Mazraoui is just the same as AWB, solid defensively but dosen't offer anything past the halfway line.

 

[Resch]

If you count just the talent of our players, we should have a top-4 squad. But a top-4 squad is so much more then talent. Our squad is unbalanced for every formation but it is the lack of ambition and spirit, which hurts us. We do not fight for each other, we have no goals, no motivation to win. A soulless team, a soulless club... (fans not included)

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's not even creativity that's the biggest issue sadly. It's absolutely mental the amount of times our players seem to make a hash of the fundamentals. You need quick crisp passes into feet or well weighted balls into space to trouble any team, so often we watch our players over or under hit, play it slightly behind the target, telegraph it to the opposition and in 99% of cases there's no reason for that.

I do agree that we struggle for creativity outside of Bruno and Amad, but if we're not even getting the basics right, we won't create anything.

Its all ties into each other. We are trying to get fish to climb trees. It will never work

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Have we feck, we have a mid table squad at very best with a manager who won’t or can’t change to adapt

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I don't think we're far off but we lack a top class spine.

Garnacho Striker Amad
Bruno Midfielder Mainoo
Dorgu Martinez Yoro Mazraoui
Goalkeeper​

If we were to fill these gaps with top class players, then it would make us a top four team.

To take us from top four to title contenders, we'd need to get a left back, winger and a box to box midfielder in addition to the positions I mentioned above.

 

[Rozay]

I don't think we're far off but we lack a top class spine.

Garnacho Striker Amad
Bruno Midfielder Mainoo
Dorgu Martinez Yoro Mazraoui
Goalkeeper​

If we were to fill these gaps with top class players, then it would make us a top four team.

To take us from top four to title contenders, we'd need to get a left back, winger and a box to box midfielder in addition to the positions I mentioned above.

This is what I’ve been saying. We need literally 3 players in the first XI. Amorim has been allowed to come in and engineer a situation where we need double that, in record time.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I watch a lot of football and play football regularly.
The way this group of players passes is the worst of any team I watch regularly. And I would probably be fighting my team mates every week if I played in this team.

And thats just one aspect, passing. We are physically weak, very unathletic and low IQ

This is not a top 4 squad.

 

[LordSpud]

Ironically it's a bottom 4 squad (or will be come Sunday)

 

[Lentwood]

Many of the individuals within our squad could certainly play for a top four team and not look out of place.

The problem is that as a collective, we badly lack physicality, so as a unit, they are very poor.

You can have one or two players who aren't the best athletes, but we have 9 or 10 in any given starting XI

 

[Kelly15]

Weird bump after that disappointment but whatever floats your boat.

Still believe this to be the case (top 4 might be ambitious tbf but certainly top 6-8) , the squad is miles better than it’s showing. It’s a management issue.

Not really a weird bump after the season ended. I'm sure you're ego is a little bruised and it hurts. But instead of admitting you are wrong, you instead double down and blame management again. What ever floats your boat.

 

[Baxquux]

Many of the individuals within our squad could certainly play for a top four team and not look out of place.

The problem is that as a collective, we badly lack physicality, so as a unit, they are very poor.

You can have one or two players who aren't the best athletes, but we have 9 or 10 in any given starting XI

This is still under-played, even as people will intermittently bring it up. You can go through the side and say that players with this degree of experience (and in certain cases , a-grade talent) shouldn't be this low, but the fact is that the side a) got to a European final and b) struggled horribly in the PL against pretty much every kind of side. And then got neutralized, by and large, in a final by another PL club. It's the ability to play at the requisite intensity as a group at PL levels specifically that Utd lack, first and foremost, followed by some technical/psychological deficits at the top-end (Hojlund's general form.

Part of the reason the side wasn't able to break Tottenham down was a tentativeness about taking more risks because of the threat on the breakaway- and that's because of issues with intensity at the core of the side(speed, being outmuscled). The side needs to be buying in 'monsters' (Ligue 1 has a few) with something to prove and decent technical ability. Likes of Bournemouth, even Tottenham themselves, whatever their other issues, have done better with this (VDV; Sarr). You need to give your creative players a platform whilst also ensuring the player you bring in are able to put the opposition on the backfoot themselves through linebreaking runs or turnovers and breaking. Then it's down to the manager to organize them, inculcate play patterns through the coaching staff etc.

 

[Kelly15]

How is it possible that this is a top 4 squad. When we arguably have the worst strikers in the league. How do you score goals?

 

[pocco]

I don't think we're far off but we lack a top class spine.

Garnacho Striker Amad
Bruno Midfielder Mainoo
Dorgu Martinez Yoro Mazraoui
Goalkeeper​

If we were to fill these gaps with top class players, then it would make us a top four team.

To take us from top four to title contenders, we'd need to get a left back, winger and a box to box midfielder in addition to the positions I mentioned above.

There’s a lot wrong with that. Garnacho has zero end product, Mainoo has been poor this season and is no longer deserving of that starting spot based on what he’s produced, Martinez constantly injured. So that’s 3 players who haven’t shown they’re good enough or fit enough to be part of a top 4 squad. On top of the 3 players you believe we need. That’s now 6 slots that I believe need therefore. I also have my doubts about Mazraoui at RB. He offers nothing going forward, so he’d have to be in to strictly defend. Every team in the top 4 has a RB that can contribute to attacking phases. So that’s potentially 7/11 positions that I’m not convinced are top 4 quality right now.