What’s the reasons for keeping Ole?

[Rafaeldagold]

I think as fans, we are more divided than the club. Cant seem to decide on going with young or established players, cant decide if we should appoint a proven or give a novice manager his shot, cant seem to decide on which previous manager to blame for our troubles, cant seem to decide if we should blame the board or the manager or the players.

I'm supporting Ole, not because i'm a romantic or what. Okay, maybe 1% of me really hopes to see Ole succeed as manager of us as he was a legend at our club. But 99% of it because, we had Jose, LVG and Moyes, all successful in their own right, failed terribly at this club. Who's to say if a proven manager comes in, it would guarantee us success? FFS, Ole has only been in this job for 6 mths, not even had a preseason, not even a transfer window for him and we have people calling for his head. Are we living in a world now where we get the blame for what our predecessors has done? Well, I hope these guys get sacked at your new jobs 6 months in.

Even for our transfer policies, we had Di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku, Martial, Fred and if you forget, Alexis. Granted, some of these players were bought by the board instead of the manager but they came with heavy price tags and only Lukaku and Martial have only been decent at best in their first season.

If anyone needs a reminder, our best manager in history was a game away from being sacked in his first few years. Not saying Ole is SAF, but more of we need the stability now more than ever.

LVG didn’t fail terribly at all- we had a clear way of playing, got to the champions league, won the FA Cup. Wish he had more time before we hounded him out. - LVG deserved extra time as there was potential there. With Ole there’s been no signs of progress or any kind of style being implemented.

That’s the reason people are calling for his head- no other big club in world football would tolerate such a woeful turn in performances & results & It’ll lead to another 2 years falling behind.

No point in backing a manager when it’s clearly not working (Like Moyes)

 

[Enigma_87]

All pointless questions, how will I know signings will be successful? How am I supposed to answer that? Why should anyone compare the signings for Cardiff where they signed bunch of players hoping something will stick to signings that will be made at ManUtd where the signings will be less and for only specific positions. Not to forget the quality and the level of players are completely different.

Re deadwood, same answer. How anyone is going to answer that when there are 3 parties who should agree to move on a player? If you need few examples then

Jose begged Fellaini to stay when he was out of contract, Solskjaer didn't play him and let him leave in Jan window.
Valencia started 8 games this season and 7 of those was under Jose. Under Ole he started 1 game and he was played 16 mins in the last game to give him a send off.
Darmian started 5 league games and 4 of them were under Jose. He started 2 games under Ole, 1 was in league and 1 in cup game vs reading.

We will know once the transfer season ends, what kind of players we have targeted and how many players we offloaded and tried to offload. It's not as if everything just depends on ManUtd.

Well not really. All those who are against giving him time have already stated their concerns. Of course no one knows for sure, but again those who want to give him time expect to see clear out, quality signings in from what I'm getting.

You also contradict yourself - first you state he was interim at the time of giving players contracts then you give him credit for Fellaini leaving - that doesn't make sense.

But the real question is - in your opinion - why are we giving him time? This is the OP as well. What do you expect him to do/change, on what base apart from blind faith?

You say he should get his players in, but what track record does he have that would translate to him making successful buys? Also when people say he will change things, does he have the personality and character to do it or not?

Those are really questions that you should consider before throwing another 2-3 years down the drain for the next manager to fix.

Indifference and wait and see wouldn't really help if it is baseless and based on 10 games and 'pashun'.

If he doesn't make top 4 next year he will be our worst manager at charge since Moyes - both LvG and Jose got us in CL and won trophies. And it's not like we don't see it coming even now is it?

 

[roonster09]

Well not really. All those who are against giving him time have already stated their concerns. Of course no one knows for sure, but again those who want to give him time expect to see clear out, quality signings in from what I'm getting.

You also contradict yourself - first you state he was interim at the time of giving players contracts then you give him credit for Fellaini leaving - that doesn't make sense.

But the real question is - in your opinion - why are we giving him time? This is the OP as well. What do you expect him to do/change, on what base apart from blind faith?

You say he should get his players in, but what track record does he have that would translate to him making successful buys? Also when people say he will change things, does he have the personality and character to do it or not?

Those are really questions that you should consider before throwing another 2-3 years down the drain for the next manager to fix.

Indifference and wait and see wouldn't really help if it is baseless and based on 10 games and 'pashun'.

There are no contradiction. I said Ole didn't play him, meaning he didn't play the deadwood. So he left (He felt as important member under Jose and stayed only because of him).

Again you are asking questions which no one knows. I said it many times why I think Ole deserves time and I replied to many of your posts. I'm not going to post same things again and end up going in circles. Seriously do you just ignore and forget everything once you wake up?

 

[Enigma_87]

I think as fans, we are more divided than the club. Cant seem to decide on going with young or established players, cant decide if we should appoint a proven or give a novice manager his shot, cant seem to decide on which previous manager to blame for our troubles, cant seem to decide if we should blame the board or the manager or the players.

I'm supporting Ole, not because i'm a romantic or what. Okay, maybe 1% of me really hopes to see Ole succeed as manager of us as he was a legend at our club. But 99% of it because, we had Jose, LVG and Moyes, all successful in their own right, failed terribly at this club. Who's to say if a proven manager comes in, it would guarantee us success? FFS, Ole has only been in this job for 6 mths, not even had a preseason, not even a transfer window for him and we have people calling for his head. Are we living in a world now where we get the blame for what our predecessors has done? Well, I hope these guys get sacked at your new jobs 6 months in.

Even for our transfer policies, we had Di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku, Martial, Fred and if you forget, Alexis. Granted, some of these players were bought by the board instead of the manager but they came with heavy price tags and only Lukaku and Martial have only been decent at best in their first season.

If anyone needs a reminder, our best manager in history was a game away from being sacked in his first few years. Not saying Ole is SAF, but more of we need the stability now more than ever.

So you are supporting Ole because others have failed? Brilliant logic

Hiring good managers and hoping one would turn out fine is a lot probable than hiring bad managers and hoping one will turn out fine.

 

[Enigma_87]

There are no contradiction. I said Ole didn't play him, meaning he didn't play the deadwood. So he left (He felt as important member under Jose and stayed only because of him).

Again you are asking questions which no one knows. I said it many times why I think Ole deserves time and I replied to many of your posts. I'm not going to post same things again and end up going in circles. Seriously do you just ignore and forget everything once you wake up?

I'm not sure we discussed the way he will entertain the transfer season, who will stay and who will go or how he will deal with the rebuild? I'm just asking your personal opinion on it and your expectations of what would happen, is it that bad?

 

[roonster09]

LVG didn’t fail terribly at all- we had a clear way of playing, got to the champions league, won the FA Cup. Wish he had more time before we hounded him out. - LVG deserved extra time as there was potential there. With Ole there’s been no signs of progress or any kind of style being implemented.

That’s the reason people are calling for his head- no other big club in world football would tolerate such a woeful turn in performances & results & It’ll lead to another 2 years falling behind.

No point in backing a manager when it’s clearly not working (Like Moyes)

Funny you are saying few nice words about Van Gaal and how he should have been give 3rd season when the first 10 games he started was

10 games - 3 wins - 4 draws - 3 losses. 13 points. That's a shambolic record and this was with him getting few players, having preseason with the team. This run also includes memorable game vs MK Dons.

No club will also retain manager who went 8 games without a win.

Played 8
Won 0
Lost - 4
Draw - 4

But still we retained Van Gaal and gave time to rectify. All this when he spent shit loads of money, signed players he wanted and had 1.5 years with the team.


2016-17:
Played 11 games in the league
Won - 2
Lost - 3
Draw -6

Again this was after spending shit loads of money.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Basically the only reasons I see from people on why Ole deserves time & to be given more money on transfers is:

1. He just needs time as we can’t tell if he’s going to be good yet (same reasons were given to Moyes)

2. He’s a legend & deserves respect & time (I’ll always have respect for Ole but that doesn’t mean he should be manager)

3. Our good run we had (from my point of view performances weren’t great in that time in all honesty)

4. Other proven managers have worked so why not. (This is an awful reason to hire anyone)

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Funny you are saying few nice words about Van Gaal and how he should have been give 3rd season when the first 10 games he started was

10 games - 3 wins - 4 draws - 3 losses. 13 points. That's a shambolic record and this was with him getting few players, having preseason with the team. This run also includes memorable game vs MK Dons.

No club will also retain manager who went 8 games without a win.

Played 8
Won 0
Lost - 4
Draw - 4

But still we retained Van Gaal and gave time to rectify. All this when he spent shit loads of money, signed players he wanted and had 1.5 years with the team.


2016-17:
Played 11 games in the league
Won - 2
Lost - 3
Draw -6

Again this was after spending shit loads of money.

There was promise with Van Gaal. I could see his vision for the club, he had experience & had won things.

Basically this is my thread- i saw promise with LVG, but with Ole I unfortunately feel the same as I did with Moyes in charge

 

[roonster09]

I'm not sure we discussed the way he will entertain the transfer season, who will stay and who will go or how he will deal with the rebuild? I'm just asking your personal opinion on it and your expectations of what would happen, is it that bad?

I was talking about this part.

But the real question is - in your opinion - why are we giving him time? This is the OP as well. What do you expect him to do/change, on what base apart from blind faith?

Me and few others said why we want to give time, saying how our team couldn't cope playing high intensity games (dropping like flies when we made more sprints than opposition whereas under Jose opposition always made more sprints than us), thanks to shambolic fitness records for past 3 years. Something that is ignored and we go back to same arguments.

You ask about Personality and character? Do you want me to act as internet body language expert? All I can go by is, his teammates words like Rio, Giggs and IIRC Rooney who said Ole is not just all smiles, he is also tough character. So how exactly are we going to judge him? Just because he smiles in media doesn't mean he is same in dressing room.

Re transfer season, we can only go by what's reported. If we go by reports we are looking to sign upto 5 players. Can we draw any conclusion based on that? I feel it's too early as most of the reports might be BS.

 

[roonster09]

There was promise with Van Gaal. I could see his vision for the club, he had experience & had won things.

Basically this is my thread- i saw promise with LVG, but with Ole I unfortunately feel the same as I did with Moyes in charge

You saw promise with Van Gaal when the results were laughable bad, others saw promise with Ole when we had a superb run before injuries started to pile up and we had to go back to previous style with no intensity.

Not sure what you mean by "this is my thread"

 

[Enigma_87]

I was talking about this part.


Me and few others said why we want to give time, saying how our team couldn't cope playing high intensity games (dropping like flies when we made more sprints than opposition whereas under Jose opposition always made more sprints than us), thanks to shambolic fitness records for past 3 years. Something that is ignored and we go back to same arguments.

I think we got lost in the discussion a bit. I wasn't talking about that in general(which we already discussed), rather in terms of given time and budget what changes, personally you will see in the player recruitment, contracts being given to players that aren't good enough and whether or not he has the ability to make a rebuild on the transfer market.

You ask about Personality and character? Do you want me to act as internet body language expert? All I can go by is, his teammates words like Rio, Giggs and IIRC Rooney who said Ole is not just all smiles, he is also tough character. So how exactly are we going to judge him? Just because he smiles in media doesn't mean he is same in dressing room.

Re transfer season, we can only go by what's reported. If we go by reports we are looking to sign upto 5 players. Can we draw any conclusion based on that? I feel it's too early as most of the reports might be BS.

Again I'm asking about your personal opinion on how things will pan out. My take is that it won't help his cause based on what we discussed. In your opinion will he do on the market this year and will those recruits and fitness plans will pan out good or not. It doesn't have to be accurate, just like mine.

We're not discussing results or anything for that matter which we already did, but whether he is Ed's yes man (will he have a say in the proceedings, in your opinion) and your predictions how will our season turn out.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

You saw promise with Van Gaal when the results were laughable bad, others saw promise with Ole when we had a superb run before injuries started to pile up and we had to go back to previous style with no intensity.

Not sure what you mean by "this is my thread"

The run was good but performances in my opinion were not. The most worrying thing is we were having less possession at home than mediocre teams, as well as getting beat.

The performances just aren’t there.

And I’m sorry I don’t buy the injury/fitness excuse- other managers don’t get that luxury- if those happened under Jose there would be demonstrations at Old Trafford to get him out .

I mean - ‘that’s the whole premise of my thread’ Why is Ole being given time. I gave my reasons for LVG & I just don’t think Ole has a strong case to justify being Manchester United manager

 

[roonster09]

I think we got lost in the discussion a bit. I wasn't talking about that in general(which we already discussed), rather in terms of given time and budget what changes, personally you will see in the player recruitment, contracts being given to players that aren't good enough and whether or not he has the ability to make a rebuild on the transfer market.

Again I'm asking about your personal opinion on how things will pan out. My take is that it won't help his cause based on what we discussed. In your opinion will he do on the market this year and will those recruits and fitness plans will pan out good or not. It doesn't have to be accurate, just like mine.

I can see us going for young players rather than quick fixes and signing old players on huge wages. Obviously there will be exceptions.

I'm also looking forward to see how we transform our style of play. Ole has good ideas, like how we should be hardest working team, playing with pace. Whether he can implement is something we have to wait and see. I'm sort of optimistic going by the initial run when he made the team play with intensity and then had to change because of injuries. If we can improve that, then all of a sudden we will be so much better team.

 

[Enigma_87]

I can see us going for young players rather than quick fixes and signing old players on huge wages. Obviously there will be exceptions.

I'm also looking forward to see how we transform our style of play. Ole has good ideas, like how we should be hardest working team, playing with pace. Whether he can implement is something we have to wait and see. I'm sort of optimistic going by the initial run when he made the team play with intensity and then had to change because of injuries. If we can improve that, then all of a sudden we will be so much better team.

Ok, so you are optimistic that we will get young players and change the way we play, that's fair enough.

Do you see him getting top 4 next season and if not getting sacked by Woodward?

 

[roonster09]

The run was good but performances in my opinion were not. The most worrying thing is we were having less possession at home than mediocre teams, as well as getting beat.

The performances just aren’t there.

And I’m sorry I don’t buy the injury/fitness excuse- other managers don’t get that luxury- if those happened under Jose there would be demonstrations at Old Trafford to get him out .

I mean - ‘that’s the whole premise of my thread’ Why is Ole being given time. I gave my reasons for LVG & I just don’t think Ole has a strong case to justify being Manchester United manager

Why should other managers get that excuse when they were responsible for the team fitness? From 3rd in fitness to 20th in the league under Jose. Manager is responsible for team's fitness. Google how Klopp, Poch, Conte made their team to work triple sessions to improve the fitness.

Regarding possession
Vs Cardiff - 75%
Vs Huddersfield - 65%
Vs Bournemouth - 65%
Vs Newcastle - 65%
Vs Reading - 40%
Vs Spurs - 38%
Vs Brighton - 56%
Vs Arsenal - 37%
Vs Burnley - 75%
Vs Leicester - 56%
Vs Fulham - 49%
Vs PSG = 45%
Vs Chelsea - 33%
Vs Liverpool - 35%
Vs Palace - 54%
Vs Southampton - 64%
Vs PSG - 27%

This was the winning run, so apart from Reading game which mediocre teams had more possession than ManUtd at Old trafford? Fulham was away game and we were comfortable winners in that game when we took early lead. Even in away games against midtable teams we dominated possession during that winning run.

Then the losing run
Vs Arsenal 53%
Vs Wolves - 61%
Vs Watford - 51%
Vs Wolves - 50%
Vs Barca - 33%
Vs West Ham - 42%
Vs Barca - 34%
Vs Everton - 52%
Vs City - 37%
Vs Chelsea - 52%
Vs Huddersfield - 64%
Vs Cardiff - 73%

Even in the losing run, only midtable team who had more possession was west ham. Some how we had less possession than medicore teams. This is what happens when you follow narrative rather than facts.

 

[roonster09]

Ok, so you are optimistic that we will get young players and change the way we play, that's fair enough.

Do you see him getting top 4 next season and if not getting sacked by Woodward?

If we are building something good, playing exciting football and then just falls short I won't sack him. There should be progress in everything though, the way team is built, the way we play. If we improve those then results will follow.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Why should other managers get that excuse when they were responsible for the team fitness? From 3rd in fitness to 20th in the league under Jose. Manager is responsible for team's fitness. Google how Klopp, Poch, Conte made their team to work triple sessions to improve the fitness.

Regarding possession
Vs Cardiff - 75%
Vs Huddersfield - 65%
Vs Bournemouth - 65%
Vs Newcastle - 65%
Vs Reading - 40%
Vs Spurs - 38%
Vs Brighton - 56%
Vs Arsenal - 37%
Vs Burnley - 75%
Vs Leicester - 56%
Vs Fulham - 49%
Vs PSG = 45%
Vs Chelsea - 33%
Vs Liverpool - 35%
Vs Palace - 54%
Vs Southampton - 64%
Vs PSG - 27%

This was the winning run, so apart from Reading game which mediocre teams had more possession than ManUtd at Old trafford? Fulham was away game and we were comfortable winners in that game when we took early lead. Even in away games against midtable teams we dominated possession during that winning run.

Then the losing run
Vs Arsenal 53%
Vs Wolves - 61%
Vs Watford - 51%
Vs Wolves - 50%
Vs Barca - 33%
Vs West Ham - 42%
Vs Barca - 34%
Vs Everton - 52%
Vs City - 37%
Vs Chelsea - 52%
Vs Huddersfield - 64%
Vs Cardiff - 73%

Even in the losing run, only midtable team who had more possession was west ham. Some how we had less possession than medicore teams. This is what happens when you follow narrative rather than facts.

Those possession stats aren’t pretty whichever way you try & spin it. Wolves having 50% possession isn’t something to shout about- & 42% against West Ham is shocking.

I watched those games & we were awful. We’re just going to disagree as you think we played well then & have hope we’ll somehow turn it around with a novice manager where we’ve been getting worse. I don’t

 

[LS17]

And I’m sorry I don’t buy the injury/fitness excuse- other managers don’t get that luxury- if those happened under Jose there would be demonstrations at Old Trafford to get him out .

Klopp's first season they had so many injuries everyone was saying he was working them too much etc etc, they were completely injury ridden because they were used to Rodgers' system beforehand. They saw what he was doing though and look what's happened. He needs time. Everything is not going to be fixed this season and I'd be surprised if we finish particularly high but that doesn't mean we can't still be moving in the right direction.

 

[roonster09]

The run was good but performances in my opinion were not. The most worrying thing is we were having less possession at home than mediocre teams, as well as getting beat.

Those possession stats aren’t pretty whichever way you try & spin it. Wolves having 50% possession isn’t something to shout about- & 42% against West Ham is shocking.

I watched those games & we were awful. We’re just going to disagree as you think we played well then & have hope we’ll somehow turn it around with a novice manager where we’ve been getting worse. I don’t

So now the goal posts and well and truly changed.

You said we had less possession at home than mediocre teams, I posted possession stats for his entire time. When we were on the winning run we had less possession against only Reading (against mediocre teams) and during the losing run it was only against West Ham.

Wolves was away game.

So from "we didn't have more possession than mediocre teams" to "I watched those games and we were awful"

I agree we were awful during the losing run but not during the winning run. Even when we had less possession than Arsenal and Chelsea, we had a clear game plan and created so many good chances, hitting them on counter attacks. Against midtable teams we dominated them and won the games.

Performances in the winning run was so much better than whatever Van Gaal team showed in first 10 games (when you something in that team when we had less possession than Everton at Old Trafford)

 

[Maradona10]

Another shit decision by the club not to wait till end of season to keep him. The club got too emotional with him and maybe lost an opportunity to think rationally. Woodward needs to go. Just not cut out for football .

 

[Enigma_87]

If we are building something good, playing exciting football and then just falls short I won't sack him. There should be progress in everything though, the way team is built, the way we play. If we improve those then results will follow.

That's big expectations IMO, considering the state we're in.

Again, hope you are right and you can be sure that I read your opinions mate and of course value the discussion despite being on the wrong side of the argument

 

[roonster09]

That's big expectations IMO, considering the state we're in.

Again, hope you are right and you can be sure that I read your opinions mate and of course value the discussion despite being on the wrong side of the argument

Thank you. Really appreciate that. Usually we disagree on managers but at least we make our points and move on instead of using random emojis and silly name calling.

Yeah that's big expectations but playing good football is something that should be basic requirement for big clubs. It should be always attractive football + Results. We shouldn't choose considering the money we spend on players and wages.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Those who support Ole, an honest question. Would you still be supporting him if he didn’t use to play for us?

 

[Massive Spanner]

My biggest concern is his transfer policy which based on what's being said so far is "young, English and hungry" is pretty fecking basic and not exactly a recipe for fixing our problems. Sure it's good to get young English talent but you need a more coherent plan than that. Hopefully he actually has a plan beyond James, Maddison, Rice/Longstaff.

 

[JEredDevil]

So you are supporting Ole because others have failed? Brilliant logic

Hiring good managers and hoping one would turn out fine is a lot probable than hiring bad managers and hoping one will turn out fine.

I'm supporting Ole because he is the manager and what we need now is stability at the club. What I'm saying is we have had managers coming in and out of the club for the past few years. It is time to go back to stability for the club. If we are still chopping and changing mangers every time things go south now, every manager that comes in next will be stuck with a team of deadwoods that are not his. Even if we appoint the manager of Malta or Azerbaijan, god knows whoever it is, at least give him a chance to prove himself and not start calling for his head once we hit a bad run of form.

And if you are saying that Ole is a bad manager, isin't it still too early to judge. He hasn't even had a pre season with the team and hasn't signed any players. He was brought in with the intention of rebuilding the club, and yes, this job might be too big for him. But to call for his head when he hasn't even start the rebuilding process is utter ridiculous.

We can't follow the Real Madrid model by chopping and changing managers as and when we like. As big as we are, in all honesty, our appeal isint there like Real Madrid. Woody and Glazers are certainly no match for Perez. We are always a step down compared to Barca and Madrid and sadly, even Liverpool is beginning to regain back its glory days.

I hate to keep comparing ourselves to Liverpool and City or even Spurs. But Klopp finished 8th in his first season in charge iirc, EIGHT. Pep, with all that arab money he had, was trophyless in his first season iirc too. Correct me if im wrong. And Poch, how long has he been here and how many trophies has he won?

Ole. 6 months in. Fans calling for his head.

 

[JEredDevil]

My biggest concern is his transfer policy which based on what's being said so far is "young, English and hungry" is pretty fecking basic and not exactly a recipe for fixing our problems. Sure it's good to get young English talent but you need a more coherent plan than that. Hopefully he actually has a plan beyond James, Maddison, Rice/Longstaff.

Lets hope that if the plan's too obvious, clubs will start putting inflated values on their players if we go in for them. And that isint what we want.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm supporting Ole because he is the manager and what we need now is stability at the club. What I'm saying is we have had managers coming in and out of the club for the past few years. It is time to go back to stability for the club. If we are still chopping and changing mangers every time things go south now, every manager that comes in next will be stuck with a team of deadwoods that are not his. Even if we appoint the manager of Malta or Azerbaijan, god knows whoever it is, at least give him a chance to prove himself and not start calling for his head once we hit a bad run of form.

And if you are saying that Ole is a bad manager, isin't it still too early to judge. He hasn't even had a pre season with the team and hasn't signed any players. He was brought in with the intention of rebuilding the club, and yes, this job might be too big for him. But to call for his head when he hasn't even start the rebuilding process is utter ridiculous.

We can't follow the Real Madrid model by chopping and changing managers as and when we like. As big as we are, in all honesty, our appeal isint there like Real Madrid. Woody and Glazers are certainly no match for Perez. We are always a step down compared to Barca and Madrid and sadly, even Liverpool is beginning to regain back its glory days.

I hate to keep comparing ourselves to Liverpool and City or even Spurs. But Klopp finished 8th in his first season in charge iirc, EIGHT. Pep, with all that arab money he had, was trophyless in his first season iirc too. Correct me if im wrong. And Poch, how long has he been here and how many trophies has he won?

Ole. 6 months in. Fans calling for his head.

If Ole doesn't get us top 4 IMO he's a goner. If he is 8th in like Klopp Woodward will sack him. When that happens it's anything but stability what it would bring.

Do you really believe that if Ole finishes 6-8th he will be given another season by the board? Moyes was sacked midseason, Jose was sacked for being 6th. He won't be given time if he underperforms that is IMO clear.

Ole has been in management for 10 years, so no it's not all too early. During that time no serious club came in for him and the only "big" club was Cardiff, where he failed.

When his "rebuilding" is over, we will need another rebuilding and will result in even less stability which is my point.

Ole isn't Klopp or Pep so that comparison is void.

 

[Stacks]

So you think Poch would have turned Cardiff into world beaters? Yeah so he works at Spurs. There's absolutely no guarantee that he'd automatically be a success at United. And history has shown that average managers can come good and great managers can go bad. After 5 years he still hasn't won anything...that's the bottom line! I ask you again, would you be happy with Poch at United if we never won a single trophy in 5 years? People used to say how Moyes had done a great job at Everton for 11 years with he constraints he had there. He was just the perfect fit for them but crap at United.

Thankfully, it doesn't matter about all the pontificating on these forums though, Solskjaer will get the chance to turn things around at least from rational thinking fans. I get that everytime we don't win 15-0 this season, fans will be on his case but hopefully he'll prove them all wrong. I'm expecting that the fans clamouring for Poch will also be prepared to give Solskjaer 5 years to win something too.

As for the players, Son has been their best player this season and I would take him at United in a heartbeat. Poch doesn't need to implement wholesale changes like at United or Arsenal, but yeah he could make them even better with a few additions. He was even able to let Dembele go.

These are the type of discussions we should be having about Ole next season anyway.

Well one can only look at the fact Poch got Southampton from 14th to 8th so you never know!
there is no guarentee's in football but this isn't the point. you go for the least risk and the person who you are most certain of success.
Sure he hasn't won anything but what has Solskjaer won at the top level? relegation. Klopp did not win his 1st piece of major silverware for 9 seasons but the lads at dortmund must of seen what he was doing and saw his potential. Its how I feel with Poch. you can clearly see his teams are well coached, players improve, team progresses, play nice stuff and compete so it should translate. it not a case of Klopp/Poch were crap managers until they won something. the talent was always there.
regarding the 5-year thing, it would depend on where we are at. If after 5years we are where Pool are at, (pushing City and competing for CL) then yes I'd be happy. very much so. A carling cup or two isn't going to change this

 

[JustAGuest]

Those who support Ole, an honest question. Would you still be supporting him if he didn’t use to play for us?

In that case he would never have been offered it in the first place so it's pretty irrelevant.

 

[red4ever 79]

I havent seen anything from Ole so far that would give me confidence. The good run that we initially went on in a lot of those games we were fortunate. The last two months of the season were shocking. I dont buy this the players were tired lark. I have seen no identity stamped on the team, I have seen the same s*it players given opportunity after opportunity. With all that being said we have given Ole the job now and have to back him. However I will give him to December with my full backing. If w are still struggling and playing the same style and players then we have to cut our losses and Ed would have to go with him.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

In that case he would never have been offered it in the first place so it's pretty irrelevant.

But still, you could answer the question rather than sidestepping it...

The question is essentially about nepotism, something which has literally become one of Utd's single biggest problems.

Insane decisions that no other big club would make - accepted by a fanbase deluded and walking backwards due to this endless, tireless campaign to somehow relive great moments from earlier - rather than moving on to create new ones.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

My biggest concern is his transfer policy which based on what's being said so far is "young, English and hungry" is pretty fecking basic and not exactly a recipe for fixing our problems. Sure it's good to get young English talent but you need a more coherent plan than that. Hopefully he actually has a plan beyond James, Maddison, Rice/Longstaff.

I think it's already looking like our top targets are not coming and we are at the 'throw crap at the wall and see what sticks' stage, judging from what we have seen so far this Summer. The only player who looks like he is coming in for sure is Daniel James, a signing I like, but that isn't going to bridge the gap to get us back in the Top 4.

 

[matt10000]

Those who support Ole, an honest question. Would you still be supporting him if he didn’t use to play for us?

I happen to agree with you about LVG. If he had been given time then I think the habit of 70% possession would have been engrained and with a couple of tweaks/world class singings would have been able to start attacking more at the right times as well. There was a direction and you could see it even if during the transition period it was a little boring at times. Trouble is everyone seems to think that you can do everything over night. The potential was there

However, regarding Ole and the question, 'Would you still be supporting him if he didn’t use to play for us?' the answer is maybe not but the fact is that he did play for us and that is a big factor that you can't just ignore.

We had tried everything else so to me there were two options Ole from temp to perm or Poch. IMO we didn't need to make the job permanent until the end of the season and so I would have waited to see how Ole reacted to things not going his way but if we had had to make a choice at that point then yes it would have been Ole. But for all we know, Poch may have been approached about a possible role at the end of the season and said he wasn't interested in which case decision made may as well appoint Ole straight away and have some certainty. Now I have no idea if this happened, if this had happened, the powers that be are hardly going to advertise it as it makes Ole look like second choice (even if it was just putting the feelers out to see if there was going to be a decision to be made at end of season).

You could argue that he was lucky but a run of games like that?!? You make your own luck and he seems to be one of these people who always finds a way through observation and intelligence. SAF pointed out that it was no coincidence that he came off the bench and scored so often, he watched the games, observed and knew exactly what he was going to try and do when he got out there. Mix this with motivation, confidence and belief which he obviously brought during that run despite the end of the season then Ole could be as good as anyone and should be backed

 

[JustAGuest]

But still, you could answer the question rather than sidestepping it...

The question is essentially about nepotism, something which has literally become one of Utd's single biggest problems.

Insane decisions that no other big club would make - accepted by a fanbase deluded and walking backwards due to this endless, tireless campaign to somehow relive great moments from earlier - rather than moving on to create new ones.

Tell me how it's different from Zidane being given a chance at Real Madrid, or Guardiola at Barcelona? As you claim no other big club would make these decisions. Both those appointments could likewise be classified as sentimental and backwards thinking - that they both turned out successful should not be a factor here.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

But still, you could answer the question rather than sidestepping it...

The question is essentially about nepotism, something which has literally become one of Utd's single biggest problems.

Insane decisions that no other big club would make - accepted by a fanbase deluded and walking backwards due to this endless, tireless campaign to somehow relive great moments from earlier - rather than moving on to create new ones.

Exactly this- it’s frustrating that we’re turning into a mediocre club based on nepotism & a lot of fans keep trying to justify & make excuses for it

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Tell me how it's different from Zidane being given a chance at Real Madrid, or Guardiola at Barcelona? As you claim no other big club would make these decisions. Both those appointments could likewise be classified as sentimental and backwards thinking - that they both turned out successful should not be a factor here.

With both of those managers they’ve had the luxury of taking over a top class team at their peak with world class players in every position. Which can cover up any managerial flaws they may have .

We don’t have that luxury & need a world class manager who’s proven to build teams & in a certain style.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tell me how it's different from Zidane being given a chance at Real Madrid, or Guardiola at Barcelona? As you claim no other big club would make these decisions. Both those appointments could likewise be classified as sentimental and backwards thinking - that they both turned out successful should not be a factor here.

I see this over and over and over.

It's not remotely the same scenario.

I suggest you to read what Pep always talked about Cruyff and how influenced he was by him, how he helped him, how he only continued the empire that he build and the youth ranks that he had at his disposal thanks to Cruyff.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...diola-exclusive-interview-johan-cruyff-unique

Pep had a great foundation, he inherited Barca's greatest team of all time.

Zidane on the other hand inherited a team that was 2 points off the top the season before. A GOAT in it, some fantastic players and the luxury of having a fantastic base to step on.

On the other hand we're team in turmoil that has no CL spot, no coherent set up, had 3 very different managers in style before him and a clueless CEO that won't get you the biggest players in the game like Perez.

 

[Infra-red]

Exactly this- it’s frustrating that we’re turning into a mediocre club based on nepotism & a lot of fans keep trying to justify & make excuses for it

Those of you who want Ole gone asap are, if we're honest, probably not going to have that long to wait. It just isn't going to happen during this summer.

 

[roonster09]

Nepotism

Imaginary scenarios, arguing imaginary points no one made, posting nonsense and when call out changing the goal posts. List is endless.

 

[JustAGuest]

Exactly this- it’s frustrating that we’re turning into a mediocre club based on nepotism & a lot of fans keep trying to justify & make excuses for it

Being a former player can make up for a lack of experience, as can be seen in a lot of appointments. Your question is asking for an answer to an imaginary situation which would never happen in the first place.

Would I be willing to give a random manager from the Norwegian league another season based on the results so far? Likely not, but that would be more down to the manager than the results. I think the overall results show enough promise for Ole to stay at the job.