My bad, meant McTominay.
What’s the reasons for keeping Ole?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
What's wrong in giving contract to McTominay? He looks good squad player and his performance in big games have been good enough.
My reason to keep Ole is that atleast we are going to have some who gives a damn about this club. What hurts the most is not that we finished outside top 4 or even that Liverpool won CL. What hurts the most is that top players wont want to join us and the top players we have don't want to stay. Our pride of being the club kids dream of playing for has been tarnished really badly. I just want people in this club who shows the same amount of passion and desire as the fans who puts a lot of stuff aside in their private life so that they can watch their favourite club play a good game og football.
He already had contract till 2022(21 with option to extend). Was a bit odd at the time - essentially we extended for another year. He looks ok for Jose type of football, I'm not so sure in a high press, proactive one(which apparently is what Ole is after).
He was barely used by him in our good run.
If the rumours about him preferring "young and hungry British players" is true, we are well and truly fecked. Shows his level as a manager. This United mentality shit needs to fecking die. The days of players dying to play for us are gone, we are fecking shit. Sign the best players available.
Those are clearly related.
Which up and coming star will come to United considering our current project? I mean what will we propose for next year - no CL football, nobody manager at helm, a streak that ended as the worst one for United since over half a century.
We can throw money at them, but then we fell in the same cycle as we were with signing Sanchez, Di Maria, Falcao and the likes. Some used us as a retirement home like Schweinsteiger.
As much as some don't want to admit - credible managers have their pull. Appoint Pep or Klopp, have the money to back it up and it's a much much more credible project than Ole.
So we have problem when player contract is extended before it gets down to 1 year, we also have problem if we let the contracts run down to last year.
Also McTominay signed his contract on Jan 21, that was when Ole was just care taker manager and was in charge for 7 games. Did we just extend his contract with a click of a button? At this point we played only Spurs (big teams). Care taker manager with just 7 games in charge won't be deciding which players will get extensions.
He started 5 games during that winning run out of 17 games and came on as a sub in 1 or 2 games. Also not sure how he is not suited for high press when he is the midfielder who work his socks off and also looked so composed on the ball against teams like PSG, Barca.
Hiring Ole permanently has potentially written off another 2 years at least.
Remember guys, some of the best seasons come after the most depressing ones. Some good signings we could bounce back and make top 4 !
Qualifying for a tournament we are a million miles away from winning, while our rivals are dominating domestically and in Europe, making one good decision after another! Good stuff
I’m going to predict that he’ll be gone come November. I can see us losing most games.
After initial success with us, it was clear to see that he is woefully out of his depth. I mean the last 7-8 game were comically bad and worse than anything we’ve seen under Moyes.
After initial success with us, it was clear to see that he is woefully out of his depth. I mean the last 7-8 game were comically bad and worse than anything we’ve seen under Moyes.
My point is, nothing has changed in our approach since Ole was hired. Not since day one or 5 months later. People are more likely backing him up for what they want him to do rather to what will actually happen.
Ole is not a ruthless manager to "clear the deadwood" everyone is crying about. We still hand out 4-5 year contracts to rotational players. We still appoint captains players that shouldn't be remotely in the conversation for a first team place and we are unlikely to let go of the players people want.
It's not like his contract was down to the last year or there would be a queue of teams wanting to sign him. Anyway we digress, it's not that important point either way.
LvG openly said to some players they aren't in his plans, Ole said something similar to appease the fans and made our worst player last season captain, how does that compute
Worse, we will have signed more players, world class or not, and written them of as well in that time, adding to a new breed of deadwood for whoever comes in to deal with. It really is a cycle, and to break out of it, your appointment needs to be spot on, and it isn't with Ole.
It was crucial this appointment and other roles at the club such as sporting director were done competently, because top 4 is there to be broken into, given Arsenals season and their lack of funds, Chelsea losing Hazard and a possible transfer ban, 3rd place was ours to fight for if the right moves were/are made and would have sped up the process significantly.
We all want that & for someone to care about the club but that doesn’t mean it has to be an Ex player. Remember we’re one of the most famous clubs in the world, I’m sure lots of managers would look at us as a special place to manage & have a fully developed coaching style & way if of playing already.
Pep & Poch weren’t Liverpool or Tottenham legends.
We deserve the best & getting a passionate, driven & quality manager is what we should be aiming for. We can attract better players then.
Hiring an ex player with no previous accomplishments or being renowned as a great coach isn’t going to help us get to where we want to be
Actually comical how fecking incompetent this club is. Ridiculous how such a corporate juggernaut can be so fecking clueless in it's respective area of work. They are only going to be able to hang on to their past success for so long. I don't many young kids growing up wanting to support the shower of shit that is this club.
You made a point on contract extension to Smalling and then changed it to McTominay (both has nothing to do with Ole btw) and now it's changed to nothing has changed.My point is, nothing has changed in our approach since Ole was hired. Not since day one or 5 months later. People are more likely backing him up for what they want him to do rather to what will actually happen.
Ole is not a ruthless manager to "clear the deadwood" everyone is crying about. We still hand out 4-5 year contracts to rotational players. We still appoint captains players that shouldn't be remotely in the conversation for a first team place and we are unlikely to let go of the players people want.
It's not like his contract was down to the last year or there would be a queue of teams wanting to sign him. Anyway we digress, it's not that important point either way.
LvG openly said to some players they aren't in his plans, Ole said something similar to appease the fans and made our worst player last season captain, how does that compute
Handing contracts to rotational players is not a bad thing, we need squad players. Obviously handing contracts to injury prone players like Jones is bad and again not sure how much say Ole has in that, when he was just a care taker manager and there were in discussions from long time.
Again, why exactly is "who is the captain" important? Valencia was the captain and guy barely played a game last season and was released this season. Plenty of reports that Young will be captain and Manutd are looking to sign RB, so there will be someone else who will on field captain. Rooney was also captain when he started less than 50% games under Jose. It's just goes to senior players in the squad lacking any leaders.
Fellaini is gone, Valencia is gone, Darmian barely got a game and is clearly looking for a club, Lukaku is linked with Inter, looks like even Mata is leaving on free transfer. We are also looking to offload Sanchez. You can't do much when there are no buyers and players are sitting on big contracts. Ignoring all this, it's just first week of june and no one knows how many players are going to leave.
Ole has the 'try someone totally different' factor, that's the only way I see it. The board want to try something different with someone who knows the club. Nothing more.
We tried Moyes, no experience at the top, didn't know the club.
We tried LVG, experienced at the top, didn't know the club. (stubborn)
We tried Mourinho, experienced at the top, assumed he'd know the club, but didn't prove it. (stubborn)
So we have Ole, no experience at the top, knows the club. (not stubborn)
Seeing this, I'll give him one full season to see how he goes. But really the lack of experience worries me at the top level. He really needs to grow into the role this year, tactics, personality, everything. He can't be seen as nice guy Ole who was a legend as a player. He needs to be the manager for UTD.
We tried Moyes, no experience at the top, didn't know the club.
We tried LVG, experienced at the top, didn't know the club. (stubborn)
We tried Mourinho, experienced at the top, assumed he'd know the club, but didn't prove it. (stubborn)
So we have Ole, no experience at the top, knows the club. (not stubborn)
Seeing this, I'll give him one full season to see how he goes. But really the lack of experience worries me at the top level. He really needs to grow into the role this year, tactics, personality, everything. He can't be seen as nice guy Ole who was a legend as a player. He needs to be the manager for UTD.
Parking in SAF's parking spot might be character development for him.
I responded to another poster in relation to change. To me appointing Ole wouldn't change anything or make things better for the club. As I said I meant McTominay, but Smalling shouldn't be extended as well, that's another matter. You half implied it yourself that he might not have big say in extending contracts.
Handing contracts to rotational players is ok, but was there really any point in extending it when he could might as well not feature for the next manager or even current for that matter? Surely Ole has some say in this, despite being caretaker at the time and not playing him at the time. Anyhow it's a minor point as I've said, but if you say Ole has no say in these than what should we judge him on? Because tactics and results in the end doesn't really bring confidence.
Clearly Ole rates Young to play him stubbornly when he was wank again and again. That either means he rates him (can play on the left as well and as a winger in relation to us being interested in a RB) or doesn't think he is a liability - both of which probably equally wrong.
The deadwood which needs removing isn't only Darmian and Sanchez. It's Jones(who got contract), Young(who got the captaincy), Matic - who played his trade, Fred - unsuccessful buy, Smalling - not really full of quality either. Those five have actually impact on the team and make us play bad for different reasons. Darmian, Sanchez, Fellaini, Valencia - those are part players that should be moved on, but not really impeding our game.
Moving Sanchez, Darmian, Fellaini, Valencia and Mata is hardly on Ole either. We tried to move on Darmian for ages, same can be said on Feillaini and Valencia is just out of contract and semi retired. Mata and Lukaku are hardly deadwood. Both can be useful and it's not like we have plenty of quality in their positions.
What do you expect to change with Ole in regards to man management and removing deadwood - something cited far too often around here?
What is wrong with that? Look at the 'Young and Hungry' British players we've been linked with. Madison has had a great 2 seasons and created the most chances in the league last season, 2nd in Europe. Wan-Bissaka was one of the most effective defenders in Europe last season. Sancho is one of the best players in Germany. If we get players like Longstaff, James and Collins, they won't be first team starts, but they are players who have quality to push to challenge for places in the future.
Does the guy have an original approach to anything, it is it all just tied back to the gaffer?
Smalling was extended when Jose was the manager and it was before Liverpool game. So whatever spin anyone tries to put, it's for sure not on Ole.
So we didn't have a permanent manager and someone caretaker manager who barely had a month was responsible for contracts? No care taker manager will have a say on that, you yourself said what if they don't feature for next manager so in that case, why exactly they will go with care taker manager's opinion?
Of course Solskjaer should be judged on his entire time, from the time he was hired to season end, which is when we were 3rd in points, goals scored and conceded (IIRC). Again all the work without any signings.
Regarding Young, either he rates him or doesn't trust his other options and believe he is better than Dalot (which I disagree with btw). We are looking for a RB, reported by so many papers. It's not illogical to think he doesn't rate RB options or think Dalot isn't ready yet.
Re deadwood, you can only offload when there are clubs wanting these players. Not sure why Solskjaer should be blamed for the contracts that was handed before he was the manager or when he was the care taker manager.
Again, when did we try to sell Fellaini? Mourinho was on his knees and only thing left was his tears. He begged Fellaini to stay. We never tried to offload Fellaini, if anything Jose did everything to get him better contract.
I have already said which players are already looking for new clubs (going by reports). Decision is not based on only single party, 3 parties should agree to move a player. We want Sanchez out, there is no club who will pay his wages, so how exactly Solskjaer is going to offload deadwood here? That's the problem with Mourinho's signing and had we signed Perisic, we would have had same problem. Huge wages to old players who won't have many takers. We will struggle to offload them, at best we will offload few who are out of contract and very few who are wanted by other clubs.
Btw Smalling isn't a deadwood. He is our most reliable CB and if we sign a new CB then he will be a squad option. Jones, Rojo are the deadwood. Players who are always injured and are paid more than 200K per week combined. You can also add Bailly but he is young and showed bit of promise when fit.
I didn't say Smalling was due to Ole, just IMO he isn't good enough to be our CB, but as I said it's another matter.
Again my point is if Jose couldn't offload the deadwood - a much more ruthless manager - I doubt Ole will.
My question is how and why has Ole shown that he will get rid of the deadwood, which many imply?
And in addition to that since you mentioned without signing any new players. On what basis do we know that the new players he will sign will be successful? He has been manager for around 10 years now. Maybe some evidence at Molde? Because at Cardiff any single one was what you'd call a failure?
All pointless questions, how will I know signings will be successful? How am I supposed to answer that? Why should anyone compare the signings for Cardiff where they signed bunch of players hoping something will stick to signings that will be made at ManUtd where the signings will be less and for only specific positions. Not to forget the quality and the level of players are completely different.
Re deadwood, same answer. How anyone is going to answer that when there are 3 parties who should agree to move on a player? If you need few examples then
Jose begged Fellaini to stay when he was out of contract, Solskjaer didn't play him and let him leave in Jan window.
Valencia started 8 games this season and 7 of those was under Jose. Under Ole he started 1 game and he was played 16 mins in the last game to give him a send off.
Darmian started 5 league games and 4 of them were under Jose. He started 2 games under Ole, 1 was in league and 1 in cup game vs reading.
We will know once the transfer season ends, what kind of players we have targeted and how many players we offloaded and tried to offload. It's not as if everything just depends on ManUtd.
Ah yes, the sensible, logical, signed for specific positions approach that Man Utd specialize in...
If you can't see how different it is signing players for Cardiff and ManUtd then I can't help.Ah yes, the sensible, logical, signed for specific positions approach that Man Utd specialize in...
Well there's more money at Utd - but if you don't think that Utd have struggled, for many years now, to make sensible, logical signings then I'm not sure what you've been watching...
Likewise, if you're claiming that you don't see that Utd, as a club, have developed a culture of buying players and then not playing them in specified positions, then I'd find it difficult to believe.
If Ole's good in the window, it'll buck the trend. And he might be good at signing players at this level.
But to suggest that his previous transfers in the PL are not applicable is bordering on patronizing him really - I'd personally hope that he did learn from those failures, and that the Cardiff experience will very much factor in to how he approaches this role.
To simply apply ambivalence and suggest that his previous failures in the PL were somehow not his fault, or that other managers don't sign better players for the money he had at Cardiff is to undermine his previous experience - something that is already lacking...
Honestly believe this is as gimmicky a policy as Jose buying players for their height. Height is at least a physical attribute. Homegrown requirement sure but what does being British do on the pitch? We'll end up with more technically deficient dross whose only redeeming quality is running around a lot
Stop talking sense! I don't understand why the Ole naysayers are blaming him for contracts he had nothing to do with. Probably it just gets lost in all the details. Glad to see somebody going in to bat for Smalling - I think he'll surprise people who think he should be slung out of the club.
Bailly is clearly a young player who lacks confidence but has the skills. I will be interested to see how he is managed. Great post.
Those managers have to be available - it seems they were not or not interested. Back to the future with Ole is a gamble but he has intimate knowledge of the club on his side.
As for other posters' comments about possible splits in the dressing room - let those players that don't support Ole go. Send them on their way. Time to stop tolerating white-anting of the Manchester United manager.
I think as fans, we are more divided than the club. Cant seem to decide on going with young or established players, cant decide if we should appoint a proven or give a novice manager his shot, cant seem to decide on which previous manager to blame for our troubles, cant seem to decide if we should blame the board or the manager or the players.
I'm supporting Ole, not because i'm a romantic or what. Okay, maybe 1% of me really hopes to see Ole succeed as manager of us as he was a legend at our club. But 99% of it because, we had Jose, LVG and Moyes, all successful in their own right, failed terribly at this club. Who's to say if a proven manager comes in, it would guarantee us success? FFS, Ole has only been in this job for 6 mths, not even had a preseason, not even a transfer window for him and we have people calling for his head. Are we living in a world now where we get the blame for what our predecessors has done? Well, I hope these guys get sacked at your new jobs 6 months in.
Even for our transfer policies, we had Di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku, Martial, Fred and if you forget, Alexis. Granted, some of these players were bought by the board instead of the manager but they came with heavy price tags and only Lukaku and Martial have only been decent at best in their first season.
If anyone needs a reminder, our best manager in history was a game away from being sacked in his first few years. Not saying Ole is SAF, but more of we need the stability now more than ever.
I'm supporting Ole, not because i'm a romantic or what. Okay, maybe 1% of me really hopes to see Ole succeed as manager of us as he was a legend at our club. But 99% of it because, we had Jose, LVG and Moyes, all successful in their own right, failed terribly at this club. Who's to say if a proven manager comes in, it would guarantee us success? FFS, Ole has only been in this job for 6 mths, not even had a preseason, not even a transfer window for him and we have people calling for his head. Are we living in a world now where we get the blame for what our predecessors has done? Well, I hope these guys get sacked at your new jobs 6 months in.
Even for our transfer policies, we had Di Maria, Falcao, Lukaku, Martial, Fred and if you forget, Alexis. Granted, some of these players were bought by the board instead of the manager but they came with heavy price tags and only Lukaku and Martial have only been decent at best in their first season.
If anyone needs a reminder, our best manager in history was a game away from being sacked in his first few years. Not saying Ole is SAF, but more of we need the stability now more than ever.
Including Moyes as a "proven" manager to suit your agenda isn't correct. Moyes was not proven at the highest level. He had some success with Preston and Everton, which is probably comparable to Ole's success at Molde. At best, Ole is at Moyes level, which means we are again taking the same plunge.
By your logic, we could appoint anyone on the street as a manager since the "proven" ones have failed. I mean, why not appoint any random scout or Nicky Butt then, aren't they alternatives to "proven managers" too? Come off it.
I understand giving the job to someone like Nuno or Nagelsmann as an alternative to LvG or Jose -- that would be "taking a risk" but "doing something different" as they are unproven at the highest level despite showing potential. Giving Ole the job was a knee-jerk reaction based on a string of wins that probably won't be replicated and ignoring the alarming drop-off that came later. If this were Real and Perez, they would have no qualms in rescinding the contract given to Ole based on how results went, but Ed would never like to admit he got it wrong again.
At the end of the day, it isn't entirely Ole's fault, so I fully back him. The reason we need to keep Ole is because we have no choice as that is Woodward's decision. If I'm proven to be wrong about him, I will be the happiest.
What I would like to ask those who are truly against the Ole appointment hands-down is - what other managers were available at the time? I'd honestly like to know. Probably the United Board knew something we don't.
Yes, the cries of 'Fergie Out'. I remember he was accused of having no real experience because he had managed in Scotland despite the outstanding job he did there and the capture of the European trophy, no vision, of being unclear about what players he should be using, of being disliked by players he confronted, of no team shape or identity etc etc. Look how that all turned out.
Yup maybe i wasn't clear enough, I meant Moyes was considered to be successful during his time at Everton. Not on a standard similar to the other European giants, but definitely deserve the accolades for what he done with Everton. He did a great job with the constraints he had and even qualified for UCL iirc? Nicky has done a great job with the youth team. I mean, we can never really judge someone till he has has a go at the job right? Even Zidane started off in Madrid reserves before they took a gamble on him by giving him the main job. There wasn't even an interim period for him. What i'm hoping for is stability back at the club. Just look at 2 of the managers we wanted, Klopp and Poch. Both had not so great times at the beginning but now, we want them so badly. Even if they do join us, i'm guessing some of us here will start calling for their head if we dont win anything in the first season.
Yes, giving Ole the job at that point was certainly a knee jerk reaction but i think if we look at the table since Ole took over and if the wins were spread out instead of going on that insane run, we are still 3rd or something. We had the more "difficult" fixtures near the end of the season except for the relegated teams which we absolutely had no excuses for not winning and also that Everton performance.
I do hope we dont become a club like Real Madrid though, yeah they are hugely successful with the model but i think we tried it in recent years and sort of backfired right in our faces.
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The whole point was that we didn’t need to make the decision at the time, so what managers were and weren’t available isn’t the point.
All that announcement did was tie our hands if things inevitably turned shite (as they did) and added pressure on him and the players.
Also this nonsense that we need a manager to plan for the summer is just that - nonsense. Countless clubs go into transfer windows whilst still looking for managers. Look at Juve currently as an example.
Passion.
The last manager that bench martial for showing lack of passion (running) got hounded out by the fans.
The last passionate managers that dares to critized these bunch of clowns and demanding more got slagged for throwing the players under the bus.
Now we have a willy good spirited ole with arms around the shoulder type and the players revert back to their lazy nature you want passion
Make no mistake our players under saf gives their all not because they love united feom the start but because they have a fierce hairdryer gaffer you dont mess with
Not making sensible, logical signings in the past by Van Gaal and Jose is something we should use against Ole now. What has that got anything to do with Ole? Same with buying and not playing them in their best positons. Club don't do that, managers do that and we don't have those managers.
Now, who said anything about signings at Cardiff was not his fault? I said transfer market is different for Cardiff and Manutd, the players we target and the number of players we target is completely different and requirement is also completely different. That doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for bad signings at Cardiff, that means both clubs operate in different markets and levels. He spent around 20 million and signed bunch of cheap signings and many free transfers but we should analyze that to come to conclusion how he will fail in transfer market at Manutd who will spend 14-15 million on a single player as a punt signing.
Biggest money he spent was on Manga (4.4 million) who is still Cardiff player won their player of the year award in Chamspionship.
His next biggest was Sean Morrison (2.6 million) who is still with Cardiff and their player of the year in 2017-18 season
He signed 19 players and spent around 20 million, that should tell everything. They just went for punt signings and it didn't work out. Do you really believe he will go follow the same path at Manutd signing 20 years in 2 windows? That too on an average 1 million each on a player?
Last point you just made up, this is the trend anyways. Posters just make up one argument and then argue against that for no reason. In any case, Cardiff's other manager spent 15.5 million on 2 players who both ended up as duds.