What are we bad at and how do we fix it?

[Stenis87]

I think letting Rashford and Antony plus Sancho leave meant that Amorim had no choice. Playing Thursday and Sunday with a small squad is going to be punishing. Dalot has been an ever present for two seasons now and an injury and loss of form was coming. I am surprised how well Bruno has done.

I don't know about choice, but in hindsight it seems like it couldn't have gone much worse regardless (I can be wrong of course). Rather, a feeling of "no choice" due to internal and external pressure of us being United where the expectation is to fight for everything at once, we perhaps came into a downwards cycle having an overall negative effect on the outcome of succeeding at some primary goals and actually improving performances, team coherence and consistency. Let's review when the season ends, but seems we were eager for league and FA cup, then a "don't get relegated" panic, then stay in the EL for keeping the CL dream alive with these things overlapping and interchanging over time. Now we only have the last thing to hope for so the priority has been sorted out "automatically" for these final weeks as a final straw to clutch on to to salvage something from this season.

 

[Fitchett]

Too much to mention but the thing that annoys me the most is we’re always signing injury prone or physically deficient players

Most of the teams that play us seem to over power us and out run us.. and like, surely this is obvious to the management over the years?

The current manager seems to have identified it as a weakness at least

Ralf Rangnick identified it three years ago.

 

[Tarrou]

Ralf Rangnick identified it three years ago.

and we threw him out with the bathwater

 

[Barnslig]

I often find our passing is pathetic. The amount of times our wingbacks, or attackers find themselves in space, only for the pass to be behind the target, or hit with the wrong amount of pace, now the attacking player have to slow down their run to receive the ball, and the attacking advantage is gone.

 

[Fitchett]

I often find our passing is pathetic. The amount of times our wingbacks, or attackers find themselves in space, only for the pass to be behind the target, or hit with the wrong amount of pace, now the attacking player have to slow down their run to receive the ball, and the attacking advantage is gone.

Yes, it's a pet annoyance of mine. It doesn't matter what formation or system we play, or who the coach is, bad passing will kill any team's play.

 

[Barnslig]

Yes, it's a pet annoyance of mine. It doesn't matter what formation or system we play, or who the coach is, bad passing will kill any team's play.

Me too. It seems like such an "easy" thing to improve on as well, which makes it even worse.

 

[MaxZorin]

Ralf Rangnick identified it three years ago.

In fairness to RR, it didn't take a footballing super-genius to identify such a problem. As obvious as day following night.

I often find our passing is pathetic. The amount of times our wingbacks, or attackers find themselves in space, only for the pass to be behind the target, or hit with the wrong amount of pace, now the attacking player have to slow down their run to receive the ball, and the attacking advantage is gone.

Oh god yes, our passing is diabolical.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Plain and simple. We need better players. We need more technical players aswell as physical players. Amorims a very good coach but he needs specific players to play the roles he wants.

Hell I'd say he doesn't even need super specific players, just good ones (duh).

It's very hard to be a successful manager when your midfield lacks technical ability AND athleticism, and your forwards are as inefficient as any in the league when it comes to executing in the final third. You can draw up and coach all of the tactics you want, it won't change much if that's what you're having to work with.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

Watching the match today I couldn't help being annoyed how every team manages to play out the back and we are still sht at it.This has gone on for years after numerous managers. So rate our fundamentals out of 10 (6 being average) and tell me how to we are going to fix them -

1) Playing out from the back - 4/10
2) Going long from goal kick - 4/10
3) Not making self inflicted errors - 2/10
4) Crossing - 5/10
5) Defensive Headers - 6/10
6) Offensive headers - 6/10
7) Controlling the midfield - 5/10
8) Beating a man one on one - 5/10
9) Scoring (Easier fix but not if we want to compete with the top teams at 85 plus goals) - 3/10
10) Corners and free kicks - 4/10

What else? And how do we fix it? Just better players? Better coaching?

1/ Playing out from the back
2/ Passing the ball forward quickly instead of lateral passes waiting for some movement to inspire a forward pass
3/ Crossing-I personally feel that successive managers have coached this out of our players. We tend to cut inside more than cross the ball.

I am genuinely perplexed how professional footballers cannot grasp AND execute a manager's instructions. A lot of the time it's not talent or skill where we fall down in matches but players not doing what they have been told to do.

Why is that? I genuinely don't know. Are the players doing it in training but then in the white heat and chaos of the match they shit the bed??

 

[Jund]

This implies we are good at anything? We are a Bruno away from relegation.

 

[stepic]

Plain and simple. We need better players. We need more technical players aswell as physical players. Amorims a very good coach but he needs specific players to play the roles he wants.

Yep. This. As would any modern, progressive coach.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Watching the match today I couldn't help being annoyed how every team manages to play out the back and we are still sht at it.This has gone on for years after numerous managers. So rate our fundamentals out of 10 (6 being average) and tell me how to we are going to fix them -

1) Playing out from the back - 4/10
2) Going long from goal kick - 4/10
3) Not making self inflicted errors - 2/10
4) Crossing - 5/10
5) Defensive Headers - 6/10
6) Offensive headers - 6/10
7) Controlling the midfield - 5/10
8) Beating a man one on one - 5/10
9) Scoring (Easier fix but not if we want to compete with the top teams at 85 plus goals) - 3/10
10) Corners and free kicks - 4/10

What else? And how do we fix it? Just better players? Better coaching?

This is pretty similar to what I think and why I've been critical of Amorim. Of course we'd play better with better players (duh) but can we not at least score a 7 or 8 on at least ONE of these things? Or show we're battering down the door on one of them? I don't know why people are so confident we will basically improve by several folds next season when it's so grim thus far. Everything that we have done objectively well has been mostly circumstantial and not consistent at all, which is very worrying.

I'd support the feck out of him and the team but it's just blind hope than anything else.

 

[Red Pumpkin]

The way football seems to be played at the minute I believe its in one sense quite easy to actually elevate your team. The tactics employed succesfully right now from Argentina to PSG are very simple 2005-2010 tactics (pre-Pep). Essentially what is needed to get you to top 6 again is sturdy players and great cohesiveness, that is the tough part because United seems disjointed without clear direction.

If we talk about adding quality I'd buy two new CMs. 1 deep lying playmaker that is nimble like Thiago or Verratti used to be, 1 box to box that can carry the ball forward well. I would be open to try Bruno as deep lying CM if I couldnt find anyone and then buy a hard working CAM that completes my trio. These three would be the back bone of my team and we'd build from there.

 

[Beachryan]

It's two main issues for me:
1. We don't have any ball carriers in midfield. Watching all the teams in the CL SFs (except Inter), so much success is predicated on players grabbing the ball from the back 4 and moving with it. Happy to ride a couple of challenges, and with enough pace to turn up field. None of our central players can do that, except Mainoo who has stopped this season.

2. Defending set pieces. We're the worst. I think statistically, literally the worst in the premier league. And that creates so much pressure on us across any 90 minutes, because no lead is safe, no 'put it out for a corner/throw to be safe' is actually safe. From open play I find our defending to pretty solid - miles better than at any point under ETH. But we're just diabolically bad at set pieces, and that HAS to be something a decent coach can sort out. Between Maguire/De Ligt/Shaw/Hojlund/Casemiro/Dalot we're a pretty tall side too!

 

[swooshboy]

I often find our passing is pathetic. The amount of times our wingbacks, or attackers find themselves in space, only for the pass to be behind the target, or hit with the wrong amount of pace, now the attacking player have to slow down their run to receive the ball, and the attacking advantage is gone.

Yes, it's a pet annoyance of mine. It doesn't matter what formation or system we play, or who the coach is, bad passing will kill any team's play.

I think this is my biggest annoyance too! Aside from needlessly slowing down our attacks and losing any momentum, we seem to struggle with even the simple passes. When we play out from the back, one short pass is slightly off target, which means the player has to adjust to receive the ball, which means they have less time to play their pass, which increases the chance of it being off target also. This domino effect ends up either with us losing the ball as they press us, or with us losing the ball because someone decides to kick it long because they are under pressure and we lose possession that way.

Has been like this for years.

I remember a book about Michael Jordan, and the author spent a lot of time with Jordan but wasn't a typical sports journalist. So when we he watched the Bulls games from right next to the court, he was surprised about how much extra details you could see. Once of the things he always noticed was the flicker of annoyance on Jordan's face anytime a ball was passed to him that was not where it should be, that forced him to adjust before he could make his next move. This is what it must be like playing for us – always making to hard for ourselves and making passes that force the receiver to be under immediate pressure.

 

[Glorio]

Unsure how we ended up with a low technical AND physical floor while spending loads

I'd say don't take too many risks. With the recruitment of players and managers.

I like Ruben and I reckon he'll surprise many next season, however, it's still a risk to hire a relatively green manager. If the task were mine to bring us back, I'd play it safe (similar to Fergie's last view years with the likes of Valencia and Young).

Go with an experienced manager at his peak (as close to best-in-class as possible) aligned to a clearly identified viable "game model" we want to implement, and invest properly in analytics to identify a core of 4 or 5 seasoned players through the spine of the team who are proven to be very strong mentally and competent both technically and physically. To balance the books, I'd take the risk on the other positions with cheaper younger players who could be on the verge of breaking out based on the trend of their performances.

That should hopefully settle us to a point where we then go all out for a few absolute top class players, with great work ethic plus physical and technical attributes.

 

[Wilt]

Sell Hojund, Garnacho, Zirkzee, Onana ….hopefully spend wisely on good replacements

 

[stretford ender58]

Bribing players to play for us and stay with us hasn't exactly worked out.

Getting high wage earners who aren't good enough off our books should be our number 1 priority.

But there would be no point if we just give those high wages to new signings.

A salary cap of say £200k isn't a bad idea with the potential to earn a lot more than that through performance related pay. With limited exceptions such as Bruno who's worth every penny of what he is on and perhaps a marquee signing exception (although should be careful here because most players flop here regardless of what they achieved before they joined).

We are so used to having a bloated wage structure we forget how modest wages are outside the big clubs and especially outside the Premier League. So it should still be able to put together an attractive pay package that is structured to reward performance.

I like the idea of putting a squad together of young and hungry players supplemented with more experienced players from mid-tier clubs who would still see us as a step up and a chance to prove themselves.

If our inability to pay top dollar means we can no longer afford to buy cast-offs from other big clubs or massively overhyped wonderkids I'd say that is a good thing based on past experience.

And there are always going to be players who believe they can earn the bonuses and look at their maximum wage rather than their base wage in the same way that youngsters queue up to work for investment banks on modest base salaries confident they can earn big bonuses.

 

[Krky72]

It’s a difficult market now but I remember Sir Alex always looked within the Premier League to build or add to his squad.

Cantona, Cole, Yorke, Keane, Rio, Rooney, VDS, Carrick, Young, Valencia, RVP - from the top of my head.

Of course he also looked abroad but you would argue that the formula of tried and tested (with potential to improve in some cases) had a much better success rate.

Personally I think United should be looking to add three realistic but hungry Premier League talents this summer - Cunha, Wharton and Delap. I bold them two because I believe they are must buys.

Although currently playing in the Championship, I’d add James Trafford to that list as I think a new goalkeeper is crucial to this rebuild. Newcastle bound though by the sounds of things.

Frimpong would be the ideal choice for RWB with his release clause and suitability to a wing back formation. However, it’s looking likely he will end up elsewhere.

Dalot isn’t good enough for this role, and Maz looks better at RCB to rotate with Yoro.

£200m+ for a ST, AM, DM, RWB and GK + promote youth which you are already seeing with Amorim in charge - Amass, Collyer, Heaven, Obi etc.

Is that doable with the inevitable outgoings?

I’d expect Rashford and Antony to leave, whilst you should be looking to move on Onana and Hojlund. Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans out of contract.

I’d give Garnacho one more year and see how he does in hopefully a more functional Manchester United side.

 

[Bonnie Tyler]

For me, the two biggest priorities we must address going into next season are the goalkeeper and centre forward positions. In terms of goalkeepers, someone like Zion Suzuki — statistically one of the best young keepers in Europe — could be a smart, affordable option. Just as important is bringing in an established striker; a strategic investment in a player like Viktor Gyökeres or Benjamin Šeško is essential, as we badly need a reliable finisher to consistently lead the line. While the midfield and defence aren’t good enough for where we want to be, they’ll have to do for another season — provided we improve cohesion through coaching and perhaps make some minor reinforcements. Sorting those two key areas would go a long way toward stabilising and improving the team.

 

[lysglimt]

Watching the match today I couldn't help being annoyed how every team manages to play out the back and we are still sht at it.This has gone on for years after numerous managers. So rate our fundamentals out of 10 (6 being average) and tell me how to we are going to fix them -

1) Playing out from the back - 4/10
2) Going long from goal kick - 4/10
3) Not making self inflicted errors - 2/10
4) Crossing - 5/10
5) Defensive Headers - 6/10
6) Offensive headers - 6/10
7) Controlling the midfield - 5/10
8) Beating a man one on one - 5/10
9) Scoring (Easier fix but not if we want to compete with the top teams at 85 plus goals) - 3/10
10) Corners and free kicks - 4/10

What else? And how do we fix it? Just better players? Better coaching?

Seriously - we are bad, but we are not that bad. If we were as bad as that, we would have been relegated and never reached the Europa League final.

According to you we are well below average at everything - we are not. If 6 is average - that for me is a top-10 team - we are so much worse than top-10 team. If we had one decent striker - we would be above top-10 - so in that area we are worst.
At defensive corners we are worst - but defensively apart from corners - we are actually quite ok.

For instance - we actually have a positive XG (1.53 - 1,35)

It's a bit like the pundits saying - if the other teams weren't so bad United would have been in a relegation fight - yes but:

a) We would have picked up more points if we had to - and not saved players for Europe. But we might not have been in the final in Bilbao.
b) If we truly feared relegation - we would have signed a player or two more in january (regardless of FFP)
c) The chance of even getting involved in a relegation fight with 39 points after 36 matches is next to 0. It has happened - but the last time a team got relegated with 38 points or more was in 2011

 

[UpWithRivers]

Seriously - we are bad, but we are not that bad. If we were as bad as that, we would have been relegated and never reached the Europa League final.

According to you we are well below average at everything - we are not. If 6 is average - that for me is a top-10 team - we are so much worse than top-10 team. If we had one decent striker - we would be above top-10 - so in that area we are worst.
At defensive corners we are worst - but defensively apart from corners - we are actually quite ok.

For instance - we actually have a positive XG (1.53 - 1,35)

It's a bit like the pundits saying - if the other teams weren't so bad United would have been in a relegation fight - yes but:

a) We would have picked up more points if we had to - and not saved players for Europe. But we might not have been in the final in Bilbao.
b) If we truly feared relegation - we would have signed a player or two more in january (regardless of FFP)
c) The chance of even getting involved in a relegation fight with 39 points after 36 matches is next to 0. It has happened - but the last time a team got relegated with 38 points or more was in 2011

Well exactly. Top 10 team would be average in all stats. We are 15th and only 2 points separate us with 17th. The only worse sht than us are the relegated clubs. We are below average in a load of basic skills. Its all well and good saying yes/but if we had a decent striker than this would happen. But the fact is we dont and the relegated teams could say this as well. The thing that baffles me is watching these sht teams out press us or play out from the back better than us or seeing us loose the ball in dangerous positions over and over. Look at the Bilbao game where Maguire gave he ball away. Thats just one example of hundreds of unforced errors we have seen season after season

 

[UpWithRivers]

Man Utd vs West Ham - Exhibit 87686676767.

 

[mikel]

Sell Hojund, Garnacho, Zirkzee, Onana ….hopefully spend wisely on good replacements

To whom are they going to sell them and how much do you think they would get? Maybe 20 million for the lot? Ok, maybe 20 for Garnacho, so 30 for the lot. I've seen so many posts about selling the players we don't want and getting all this money to buy better players. If United doesn't want these players because they aren't good enough for a bottom half of the table team, why do people think another team wants any of these players for more than a minimal cost, if that?

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Let’s be honest, this squad is bad at every aspect of the game. There is nothing we do well. God knows how you fix that.

 

[Wilt]

To whom are they going to sell them and how much do you think they would get? Maybe 20 million for the lot? Ok, maybe 20 for Garnacho, so 30 for the lot. I've seen so many posts about selling the players we don't want and getting all this money to buy better players. If United doesn't want these players because they aren't good enough for a bottom half of the table team, why do people think another team wants any of these players for more than a minimal cost, if that?

Haha, always good for a laugh on here