What attributes are required to be a winger ?

Nani Nana

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Following a discussion about Luis Valencia, where it seems that nowadays you have to be able to make nutmegs with your head if you wish to be a successful winger, I'm wondering whether the Overmars type of wingers is definitely wearing off because of people's reluctance to give room to players who look as if they won't be able to dribble past the entire opposition.

First off, are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi wingers ?

Secondly, do you reckon a winger should foremost stick to his byline and provide width to his team, or should he cut inside as much has he can (which to me is a giveaway that the winger is in fact a demoted forward) ?

Finally, are there assets you cannot do without to be a good winger ?
 
First off, CRonaldo and Messi are wingers yes. Just because they can play up front doesn't mean they aren't wingers.

I think a winger should stick to his strengths. Be it cutting inside, playing on the left even though you are right footed, hugging the line all the time or what ever. You can't be all things. Ronaldo, Park, Beckham and Giggs are all different wingers.

To be a good winger you must have the ability to cross the ball. Or else it's a waste of space. Speed isn't necessary. Beckham isn't fast but he's a great winger.

I could add more but it's dinner time :)
 
Ronaldo was a winger, now I would call him a striker as I think his hunger to come inside and score has erased any desire to reach the dead ball line and cross it..(natural instinct)..

Messi I would say is similar but i've seen less of him.

Second really depends on productivity. If your as productive coming inside as going on the outside fine..if your not then do what you do best

Providing the width is the whole point. It spreads play, it pulls players out of position. Everything else is as a result of being in the right positon to get the ball

The last question - depends. I don't think so. Often another attribute can cover up a deficiancy
 
Depends on which team. If you're a winger for Manchester United you most score at least 15 goals a season, be two footed, score screamers, use step-overs, perform in big games and have the tag "world class" on you, otherwise you're just an average player. : rolleyes :
 
Formations and style of play has changed alot in the premierleague so traditional wingers that we might have been use to seing 10+ years ago are not that common. You've started off kind of Naff basically making out like Overmas was just hit and run!!

But yess Ronaldo and Messi can be considered as wingers but also strikers too

Figo, Beckham, Nedved, to name three have been known as quality wingers and neither 'nutmeg players with there head' putting your theory out the window.

A good winger to me would need:
pace
good feet
a trick or two (doesn't have to nutmeg anyone with their head)
Crossing ability
Good movement
Definisive awareness
Anticipation
good decision making in the final third

They wont have it all but they would need to have atleast half of it to be considered good.
 
Some that may not have been mentioned yet but are good attributes:

Good acceleration from a standing position.

Quality close ball control.

Ability to cut inside onto the other foot.

Crossing ability, be it from deep or pushing all the way to the by-line.
 
Quick, direct, able to beat his man, decent crosser of the ball, enough stamina to get up and down the wing for 90 minutes and enough intelligence to strike the right balance between attacking and defending.

That'll do really. Anything else is a bonus.
 
Good decision making, the ability to pick out the right option in the final third, Some pace wouldn't hurt and enough footballing intelligence to maximize your assets to devastating effect. Don't make it easy for defenses to deal with you, great off the ball movement is crucial
 
Snow said:
First off, CRonaldo and Messi are wingers yes. Just because they can play up front doesn't mean they aren't wingers.

I think a winger should stick to his strengths. Be it cutting inside, playing on the left even though you are right footed, hugging the line all the time or what ever. You can't be all things. Ronaldo, Park, Beckham and Giggs are all different wingers.

To be a good winger you must have the ability to cross the ball. Or else it's a waste of space. Speed isn't necessary. Beckham isn't fast but he's a great winger.

I could add more but it's dinner time :)
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Well here lies what for me constitutes the biggest error of all. I'm not pointing out that Messi and Ronaldo are not wingers because they can play up front, but because their entire game when positioned as wingers consists of cutting inside. They do not know how to be worthwhile when sticking to the byline.

To me the job of a winger is first and foremost to provide width to his team. In a game where most battles take place in the central midfield, the role of wingers is to stretch the flow of the game as much as possible to open up space for the other central players.
This obviously, is the contrary to what Ronaldo and Messi do, as they cut inside the centre of the pitch and look to make a difference from there. So to say, they go in the thick of the battle and look out for solutions there. This is typically what a forward is here for.

If you take a look at Barcelona, you'll find nobody reckoning they play in a 4-5-1 tactic. It is a 4-3-3, with Thierry Henry (hardly a winger) and his counterpart Messi take place on the edge of the attack. Further proof these players aren't wingers.


I completely agree with the fact the main attribute required to be a good winger is to cross the ball well. This however also goes to show you have to be on the byline and not in the centre of the pitch to display this quality, thus true wingers stick to the byline! From then onwards you may have whatever you like, as you said the likes of Giggs, Beckham, Overmars, were all quite different wingers. But they all had in common a knack of crossing the ball well which defines the preamble to anything a winger must endeavour.


Pogue Mahone said:
Quick, direct, able to beat his man, decent crosser of the ball, enough stamina to get up and down the wing for 90 minutes and enough intelligence to strike the right balance between attacking and defending.

That'll do really. Anything else is a bonus.
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Is Beckham that quick ? Or even the likes of Milos Krasic nowadays, who for me is the typical old-fashioned winger. I'd say pace isn't that important although it helps in every other area, namely beating your opponent, and running up and down the wing keeping a certain activity in each action.
 
Pace, acceleration.. off the ball movement, ability to use either feet is a bonus but very useful, crossing ability and the ability to spot a pass and also keep it simple when situation demands it.

In terms of dribbling, the ability to dribble with the laces is vital..(Lennon, Messi) are two perfect modern exponents of this art, a trick or two (Ronaldo..Maradona was basically Messi coupled with Ronaldo - phenomenal), agility and ability to confuse a full back with just pure body movement for example a feint.

A solid first touch is also vital especially if in some games you're being tightly marked.. ability to turn a fullback with just one touch can have a massive impact in tight elite level matches.
 
Nani Nana said:
Well here lies what for me constitutes the biggest error of all. I'm not pointing out that Messi and Ronaldo are not wingers because they can play up front, but because their entire game when positioned as wingers consists of cutting inside. They do not know how to be worthwhile when sticking to the byline.

To me the job of a winger is first and foremost to provide width to his team. In a game where most battles take place in the central midfield, the role of wingers is to stretch the flow of the game as much as possible to open up space for the other central players.
This obviously, is the contrary to what Ronaldo and Messi do, as they cut inside the centre of the pitch and look to make a difference from there. So to say, they go in the thick of the battle and look out for solutions there. This is typically what a forward is here for.

If you take a look at Barcelona, you'll find nobody reckoning they play in a 4-5-1 tactic. It is a 4-3-3, with Thierry Henry (hardly a winger) and his counterpart Messi take place on the edge of the attack. Further proof these players aren't wingers.


I completely agree with the fact the main attribute required to be a good winger is to cross the ball well. This however also goes to show you have to be on the byline and not in the centre of the pitch to display this quality, thus true wingers stick to the byline! From then onwards you may have whatever you like, as you said the likes of Giggs, Beckham, Overmars, were all quite different wingers. But they all had in common a knack of crossing the ball well which defines the preamble to anything a winger must endeavour.




Is Beckham that quick ? Or even the likes of Milos Krasic nowadays, who for me is the typical old-fashioned winger. I'd say pace isn't that important although it helps in every other area, namely beating your opponent, and running up and down the wing keeping a certain activity in each action.
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Messi and Ronaldo are very good at choosing the right direction when they move forward with the ball. Ronaldo does cross the ball and he uses the line well. He's just that good that he doesn't solely rely on it. Messi on the other hand is not a crosser of the ball. But he does however run down the flank with the ball and then cuts inside with it byline. His crosses are short and often outwards and not direct inwards.
But Barcelona is a different case. Their tactics doesn't need conventional wingers and therefor Henry and Messi don't play as such.
 
Nani Nana said:
Is Beckham that quick ? Or even the likes of Milos Krasic nowadays, who for me is the typical old-fashioned winger. I'd say pace isn't that important although it helps in every other area, namely beating your opponent, and running up and down the wing keeping a certain activity in each action.
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Obviously, not ever winger needs every attribute but if they're lacking in any aspect they will need to be ridiculously good in all the others. Very few slow wingers plying their trade out there.
 
The opposite of Nani would be a good start for me!!!

In honesty, ability to beat a defender, decent final ball, positional sense / nouse and stamina would be the most important attributes for me with others being important not vital i.e. pace, finishing and tackling. nouse
 
Snow said:
Messi and Ronaldo are very good at choosing the right direction when they move forward with the ball. Ronaldo does cross the ball and he uses the line well. He's just that good that he doesn't solely rely on it. Messi on the other hand is not a crosser of the ball. But he does however run down the flank with the ball and then cuts inside with it byline. His crosses are short and often outwards and not direct inwards.
But Barcelona is a different case. Their tactics doesn't need conventional wingers and therefor Henry and Messi don't play as such.
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Indeed, but I'd say that for such a gifted player as Ronaldo the abilities he displays when stuck to his byline are quite awkward. Moreover I seldom see him attacking with his head up looking to create space for the others, compared to a Marc Overmars constantly looking around him when the ball was at his feet.

What Ronaldo fails to have is both the aim of a winger, namely stretching the width of the game with his positioning and creating space for the central players, and also one of the most important means to crown this aim with success, a solid crossing ability.


Pogue Mahone said:
Obviously, not ever winger needs every attribute but if they're lacking in any aspect they will need to be ridiculously good in all the others. Very few slow wingers plying their trade out there.
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That's true, I was pointing out pace because honestly even Giggs recently has shown how good a player positioned as a winger can be without terrific pace. The abilities listed by posters above could as well be those required for a forward, which further blurs what should and shouldn't a winger be.

Brad's list, for a start, is much better imo.
 
Nani Nana said:
That's true, I was pointing out pace because honestly even Giggs recently has shown how good a player positioned as a winger can be without terrific pace. The abilities listed by posters above could as well be those required for a forward, which further blurs what should and shouldn't a winger be.

Brad's list, for a start, is much better imo.
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Which starts with the word "pace".
 
Nani Nana said:
Following a discussion about Luis Valencia, where it seems that nowadays you have to be able to make nutmegs with your head if you wish to be a successful winger, I'm wondering whether the Overmars type of wingers is definitely wearing off because of people's reluctance to give room to players who look as if they won't be able to dribble past the entire opposition.

First off, are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi wingers ?

Secondly, do you reckon a winger should foremost stick to his byline and provide width to his team, or should he cut inside as much has he can (which to me is a giveaway that the winger is in fact a demoted forward) ?

Finally, are there assets you cannot do without to be a good winger ?
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I'm not really sure I understand the first paragraph, but I think Overmars would still be a top player right now, as I think Valencia can be. So no, I don't think that type of winger is wearing off, but I do think more multi-dimensional wingers are becoming more common - in that they're not quite as skilled in specific areas but they have a wider range of skills.

They play on the wing, they're wingers.

Depends on what type of winger they are, there isn't and never will be just one type of winger.

I'm not really sure there's any, but I think pace is the most important one for a winger. Then it really depends on what type of 'winger' you want - an Arshavin who playmakes from the wide area, a Ronaldo who offers an all round attacking threat with a more clinical edge or a Valencia who gets up and down that wing and whips in the crosses.
 
A bit of pace.

Good control/technique/crossing at pace.

Good movement off the ball as wingers are there to stretch defences.

Willingness to help out his full back when necessary.


If a player can do those things he'll probably be decent on the flanks.
 
Brwned said:
I'm not really sure there's any, but I think pace is the most important one for a winger. Then it really depends on what type of 'winger' you want - an Arshavin who playmakes from the wide area, a Ronaldo who offers an all round attacking threat with a more clinical edge or a Valencia who gets up and down that wing and whips in the crosses.
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That's exactly my point - a trademark, old-fashioned winger would definitely be very different to the likes of Arshavin or Ronaldo nowadays who, as you put it very well, playmake from the wide area, as I said previously go in the thick of the battle and look out for solutions there, as playmaking is foremost a central role. A typical winger for me would seek to avoid the battle, to avoid opponents as much as possible, which differentiates very clearly the two sorts of wingers.


Also, I didn't bring up a somewhat correlation between wingers tending to cut inside and their defensive work. In a game where full-backs tend to go forward more and more, you'll find out the likes of Valencia would certainly prove useful in that they don't spend their stamina directing toward the centre of the pitch, but rather will stay on their wing, possibly helping out when defensive work is needed. This is another point that for me explains why full-backs can attack as much as they do nowadays: wingers aren't there any more to block them. Obviously it's a bit exaggerated but that's how I picture it loosely. A collateral asset for an old-fashioned winger would therefore also be his defensive work, hardly what you praise Messi or Ronaldo for.
 
Nani Nana said:
First off, are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi wingers ?
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Yes they are. But they are what they call tricky wingers. Of the George Best ilk.

Nani Nana said:
Secondly, do you reckon a winger should foremost stick to his byline and provide width to his team, or should he cut inside as much has he can (which to me is a giveaway that the winger is in fact a demoted forward) ?
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Width for me is king. The other aspects are a bonus. I class Ron and Messi as wingers for the reason that at their best, for all their cutting in and goal threat they provide excellent width for their teams.

Nani Nana said:
Finally, are there assets you cannot do without to be a good winger ?
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Yes. Good decision making, a good cross and a great first touch are paramount. With out quick wit, a great first touch and a good cross a winger is useless.

Decent pace is also a requirement. But IMO not important as the other three aspects.
 
Pace isn't that important, as long as you have agility and acceleration. It takes at least 3 seconds or so to reach full speed. When wingers beat their man though, it's usually because they've put the defender off balance by using feints or trickery in a split second and used their acceleration to leave behind their marker.

With Messi, this gives the illusion that he's very quick when actually he has a head start on the defender because he was done by the feint. For example of Messi's lack of great pace, check the video of Kaka dispossessing Messi in an international game and burning him off, even with the ball at his feet.
 
Brwned said:
I'm not really sure I understand the first paragraph, but I think Overmars would still be a top player right now, as I think Valencia can be. So no, I don't think that type of winger is wearing off, but I do think more multi-dimensional wingers are becoming more common - in that they're not quite as skilled in specific areas but they have a wider range of skills.

They play on the wing, they're wingers.

Depends on what type of winger they are, there isn't and never will be just one type of winger.

I'm not really sure there's any, but I think pace is the most important one for a winger. Then it really depends on what type of 'winger' you want - an Arshavin who playmakes from the wide area, a Ronaldo who offers an all round attacking threat with a more clinical edge or a Valencia who gets up and down that wing and whips in the crosses.
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If offered a choice between Ronaldo, Arshavin and Valencia, I'm sure everyone would take Ronaldo as he offers much more. All round attackers are worth their weight in gold.
 
It depends on one trait you do best, and hone it to perfection.

Becks only knows how to cross, but he's damn good at it, and look what he provides.

Aaron Lennon - Speed

Ronaldo - Well, he's good at more than one trait

Park / Kuyt - Productivity, pressure, stamina

It's how you play the cards dealt to you and using them to the best of opportunity. Off course, basic football traits as well, but take a look at successful wingers, they are well known for one of their traits, master a few more you're world class.
 
R.Nilsson7 said:
Depends on which team. If you're a winger for Manchester United you most score at least 15 goals a season, be two footed, score screamers, use step-overs, perform in big games and have the tag "world class" on you, otherwise you're just an average player. : rolleyes :
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Good, so you got the memo as well then.
 
Addis said:
Pace isn't that important, as long as you have agility and acceleration. It takes at least 3 seconds or so to reach full speed. When wingers beat their man though, it's usually because they've put the defender off balance by using feints or trickery in a split second and used their acceleration to leave behind their marker.

With Messi, this gives the illusion that he's very quick when actually he has a head start on the defender because he was done by the feint. For example of Messi's lack of great pace, check the video of Kaka dispossessing Messi in an international game and burning him off, even with the ball at his feet.
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That was because Kaka himself is exceptionally fast.
 
Acceleration is probably more pivotal to a winger than raw-pace. But both usually come hand in hand anyway.

Being able to carry the ball/ball control.

Off the ball movement.

Ability to deliver the ball, be it a cross from out wide, or cutting in and laying it off.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Acceleration is probably more pivotal to a winger than raw-pace. But both usually come hand in hand anyway.

Being able to carry the ball/ball control.

Off the ball movement.

Ability to deliver the ball, be it a cross from out wide, or cutting in and laying it off.
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After watching Giggs, Beckham you'd suggest that pace + acceleration isn't everything about this game.
 
Very true, but they've got exceptional footballing brains, and skill.

The modern day prototype player will need pace and acceleration - the 'modern' footballer will eventually become an athlete.
 
Ronaldo and Messi plays more like attacking midfielders/ playmakers these days.
Both more often than not comes very deep to pick up the ball. They are simply to good to be restricted in one spesific role (as in providing width/ crosses).

Valencia plays as the traditional winger, staying out wide, looking for the cross from the byline, has the pace to beat his man etc.
 
surf said:
If offered a choice between Ronaldo, Arshavin and Valencia, I'm sure everyone would take Ronaldo as he offers much more. All round attackers are worth their weight in gold.
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It also depends upon the kind of strikers you have in the team, if you have forwards like Torres or Saha or Rooney then Ronaldo
With a RVN, Huntelaar type, a conventional winger like Valencia would be an equally good choice
 
I would say that in recent times there has been a shift from the orthodox winger towards creative, inside-forward types. Examples of the latter include Arshavin, Benayoun, Modric, Hleb and Silva. Part of the reason for this is that full-backs are becoming more athletic and for a winger raw pace is often not enough to ensure a productive return. Furthermore, a lot of the real width in modern teams is provided from the full-backs given that they have the athleticism to get up and down the park.

Nani Nana said:
If you take a look at Barcelona, you'll find nobody reckoning they play in a 4-5-1 tactic. It is a 4-3-3, with Thierry Henry (hardly a winger) and his counterpart Messi take place on the edge of the attack. Further proof these players aren't wingers.
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Just because a team plays 4-3-3, it does not mean the wide forwards cannot function as wingers. Having seen Messi in the flesh last season, positionally he played as traditional a winger role as is possible: waiting constantly on the touch-line for the ball, to ensure the pitch is as big as it can be. What he does when he gets the ball is obviously where you think he deviates from an orthodox winger. Ultimately however, if he cuts inside and sets up Ibra for a tap-in from 10 yards; or if he goes down the outside and drills it across for Ibra for a tap-in from 10 yards; he is performing the same function.
 
Gio said:
I would say that in recent times there has been a shift from the orthodox winger towards creative, inside-forward types. Examples of the latter include Arshavin, Benayoun, Modric, Hleb and Silva. Part of the reason for this is that full-backs are becoming more athletic and for a winger raw pace is often not enough to ensure a productive return. Furthermore, a lot of the real width in modern teams is provided from the full-backs given that they have the athleticism to get up and down the park.
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A fact underlined when you look at all modern attacking full backs. All started out as wingers or attackers of some sort. Of course attacking fullbacks are nothing new but they arguably have the most demanding roll in a team as they have to overlap constantly and get back costantly to defend. Most natural wingers end up as full backs unless they are useless defensively.

Most modern players who play on the wings are equally as adept as playing through the middle, the modern forward playing anywhere across the front 3.
 
MUFC_Fatso said:
It also depends upon the kind of strikers you have in the team, if you have forwards like Torres or Saha or Rooney then Ronaldo
With a RVN, Huntelaar type, a conventional winger like Valencia would be an equally good choice
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No. With any kind of striker Ronaldo would be a better choice than Valencia.

The answer to the question is simply being productive. It doesn't matter if you cut in like Mess/ Ronaldo or play the more traditional way like Giggs and mix it up. It's about producing quality in your performance.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Most modern players who play on the wings are equally as adept as playing through the middle, the modern forward playing anywhere across the front 3.
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Yup, I think attacking midfielders these days are more rounded and athletic footballers than they were in the past. Talented but slow/unfit attacking midfielders like Andy Reid are an anachronism, having largely been replaced players with good technical, tactical and physical qualities.
 
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