What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

[lex talionis]

The need for a striker is so overwhelming the obvious first, second and third priority it’s that it’s ridiculous to even think about other positions until we’ve dealt with the striker problem.

Yes of course we could use an upgrade on Eriksen, an upgrade on AWB, better cover for Varane and Martinez, and for some, an upgrade on De Gea. Not that it’s impossible to do all that if Qatar and sprays money out of a bubble machine but that may not actually happen. We do need to spend, but if we don’t bring in a proper striker we can bring anyone and we still won’t compete for the PL trophy. Bring in a proper striker in the class of Kane or Osimhen and we’re in the hunt even if all we do is bring up promising young players, add some depth to the CF position (Martial is a permacrock and probably can’t even be sold now) and CM positions, and clear deadwood such as McTominay and Jones, and we can talk about the PL.City would still be the favorite, but they wouldn’t be having a laugh at our squad IF we have a proven CF leading the line.

 

[kaku06]

A midfielder or 2 who can control the fecking ball can pass under pressure and can control the tempo of the game. I’m sick and tired of mcfred and even Bruno being utterly incompetent at these things.

 

[bosskeano]

i think it's pretty obvious we need to add a legit striker and a top class mid....along with a rotational mid that adds depth and quality

 

[Kag]

We need at least six more players if we’re really serious about competing.

De Gea needs replacing.

Maguire needs moved on and younger competition for Varane brought in.

Wan-Bissaka isn’t the long term answer; we need a better right back.

We need an understudy for Casemiro, as well as a long term partner for him.

Then there’s the striker issue, which we all know about.

Yesterday, the spine of our team was De Gea, Maguire, McTominay and Weghorst. Ten Hag has this lot punching well above their weight.

 

[Steve 007]

Top top striker.
Midfielder with versatility to push to be our first starter. It’s no coincidence we are not as good recently since Ericksson got injured and Casimero got his suspensions.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

A midfielder or 2 who can control the fecking ball can pass under pressure and can control the tempo of the game. I’m sick and tired of mcfred and even Bruno being utterly incompetent at these things.

I agree but Who though.?

 

[Olecurls99]

I agree but Who though.?

Maxence Caqueret

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Maxence Caqueret

Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.

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This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives

 

[Mainoldo]

Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.

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This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives

Great read.

He’s basically two players. If we don’t get him. Rabiot and Bellingham covers his loss.

 

[Matthew84!]

If Utd sign Kim Min-Jae, Bellingham or Rice, Kane or Oshimen, then sell Maguire, McTominay and Martial,
That'll be a good window,
If money for RB or GK,

 

[daba]

Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.

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This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives

Great read.

He’s basically two players. If we don’t get him. Rabiot and Bellingham covers his loss.

Thanks for sharing, really interesting read.

Quite fitting that Bennacer signed on with Milan, I think he’d have been an excellent buy given he has some of Fred’s tenacity paired with De John’s skill set.

I agree it feels like De Jong is pretty unique and either you go for a worse version (statistically) or you cover it with two players. Not against Bellingham and Rabiot at all.

Other combos I quite like would be:

Ugarte or Caicedo with Kokcu or Le Fee

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

My top 5 summer signings:

Ramos - 65m pounds + adds on (120k pw)
Raya - 20m pounds (100k pw)
Romeo Lavia - 45m pounds (100k pw)
Kim Min-Jae - 45m pounds (200k pw)
Veiga - 35m pounds (110k pw)

Total: 210m pounds + adds on and 630k per week wages

Sell:
Maguire: 25m (200k)
Lindelof: 15m (120k)
VDB: 15m (120k)
McT: 25m (60k)
Martial: 20m (250k)
Elanga: 10m (5k)

Total: 110m pounds and 755k per week wages

God, is Martial on that much? There's no way we're getting rid of him until his contract expires. Would be a good window but I still don't think it would address our midfield's poor build up. Lavia is more of a Casemiro understudy and Veiga seems to be an advanced eight who can carry and has a knack for scoring. I think we need someone who is secure in possession and can really connect the defence and the attack in build up. FdJ is the blueprint because he's good at both carrying and passing but at the moment our midfield is full of risky passers (Bruno, Casemiro and even Eriksen) or have technical flaws (Fred, McTominay) and none are press resistant (and this extends into defence too) with Varane, AWB and DDG being poor in this regard.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Thanks for sharing, really interesting read.

Quite fitting that Bennacer signed on with Milan, I think he’d have been an excellent buy given he has some of Fred’s tenacity paired with De John’s skill set.

I agree it feels like De Jong is pretty unique and either you go for a worse version (statistically) or you cover it with two players. Not against Bellingham and Rabiot at all.

Other combos I quite like would be:

Ugarte or Caicedo with Kokcu or Le Fee

Bennacer extended but I'm nearly sure he kept his 50mn release clause so he should be available for that fee.

 

[daba]

Bennacer extended but I'm nearly sure he kept his 50mn release clause so he should be available for that fee.

If that is true, he should definitely be high up our list if De Jong is seemingly impossible.

 

[daba]

God, is Martial on that much? There's no way we're getting rid of him until his contract expires. Would be a good window but I still don't think it would address our midfield's poor build up. Lavia is more of a Casemiro understudy and Veiga seems to be an advanced eight who can carry and has a knack for scoring. I think we need someone who is secure in possession and can really connect the defence and the attack in build up. FdJ is the blueprint because he's good at both carrying and passing but at the moment our midfield is full of risky passers (Bruno, Casemiro and even Eriksen) or have technical flaws (Fred, McTominay) and none are press resistant (and this extends into defence too) with Varane, AWB and DDG being poor in this regard.

I’m pretty sure Martial will stay here as back-up ST next year, unless ETH is adamant he needs a better presser as back-up. In that case we’ll probably just take a big hit and send him out on loan for no fee and paying 50% of his wages. And get either Weghorst or another cheap signing in.

 

[Erik the Red]

Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.

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This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives

This is really interesting. Any data on Eriksen and Tielemans??

 

[croadyman]

A midfielder or 2 who can control the fecking ball can pass under pressure and can control the tempo of the game. I’m sick and tired of mcfred and even Bruno being utterly incompetent at these things.

Yes that is easily second priority behind a striker,this team needs to recycle ball so much better than is currently happening.

I would then go GK/RB as both are still issues in the first XI,would make a backup for Casa 4th on list and cover for CB maybe 5th even 6th.

Wildcard free agent signing would be Thuram or despite shenanigans last summer Rabiot

 

[croadyman]

We need at least six more players if we’re really serious about competing.

De Gea needs replacing.

Maguire needs moved on and younger competition for Varane brought in.

Wan-Bissaka isn’t the long term answer; we need a better right back.

We need an understudy for Casemiro, as well as a long term partner for him.

Then there’s the striker issue, which we all know about.

Yesterday, the spine of our team was De Gea, Maguire, McTominay and Weghorst. Ten Hag has this lot punching well above their weight.

Yeah I would go 7 in total which are in order of priority

ST
CM
GK
Backup DM (ideally can play 8 too)
RB
Backup CB
Backup ST

 

[Erik the Red]

Yes that is easily second priority behind a striker,this team needs to recycle ball so much better than is currently happening.

I would then go GK/RB as both are still issues in the first XI,would make a backup for Casa 4th on list and cover for CB maybe 5th.

Wildcard free agent signing would be Thuram

How about:

Costa
Min Jae
Frimpong
Rabiot
Tielemans
Kane
Thuram

That should be very affordable, with three free transfers amongst them, and a buyout clause as well. That would allow us to have a competitive squad now, and gradually replace the aging stars like Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen and Kane over the coming years. Min Jae would be the Varane replacement, phased in over the next couple of years, and we can look at the other positions. I like Evan Ferguson for the striker role, and we can determine whether FDJ will ever move.

 

[Erik the Red]

Yeah I would go 7 in total which are in order of priority

ST
CM
GK
Backup DM
RB
Backup CB
Backup ST

Without seeing your post, I have listed the seven players for you...

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

God, is Martial on that much? There's no way we're getting rid of him until his contract expires. Would be a good window but I still don't think it would address our midfield's poor build up. Lavia is more of a Casemiro understudy and Veiga seems to be an advanced eight who can carry and has a knack for scoring. I think we need someone who is secure in possession and can really connect the defence and the attack in build up. FdJ is the blueprint because he's good at both carrying and passing but at the moment our midfield is full of risky passers (Bruno, Casemiro and even Eriksen) or have technical flaws (Fred, McTominay) and none are press resistant (and this extends into defence too) with Varane, AWB and DDG being poor in this regard.

To be fair Kim Min-Jae and Veiga aren’t really my preference as I haven’t watch them much. I only pick them because they have reasonable release clause which makes them realistic target but the point is my top 5 would be striker, 2 midfield, keeper, and centre back.

 

[Devil You Know]

(Realistic) ins:
Ferguson
Kamada
Frimpong
Lukeba
Raya

Outs:
De Gea
Maguire
Fred
VDB
Martial
Dalot
Elanga


First choice:

Raya
Frimpong--Varane--Licha--Shaw
Cas-Kamada
Antony--Bruno--Sancho
Rashford​

Second choice:

Heaton
AWB--Lindelof--Lukeba--Malacia
McT--Eriksen
Pellistri--Amad--Garnacho
Ferguson​

 

[LuckyScout78]

Updating:

I haven't mentioned and recommend this guy and player before. After a closer look of him: Stanislav Lobotka

If not De Jong. Stanislav Lobotka is the deep laying cm playmaker United and Ten Hag shall go for. As a complete and allround cm playmaker. I rate Stanislav Lobotka over Eriksen and Sabitzer.

So this is mine new updatings :

+ A top and beast of CB = Haven't decide yet. Kim Min Jae or Antonio Silva from Benfica

+ Stanislav Lobotka. Deep laying cm playmaker

+ A top CF. Osihmen, Kane, Ramos and others alternatives = haven't decide yet which i would pick yet



Clearly the 3 positions where Ten Hag and United need to strength most. 3 positions where United can improve most.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Updating:

I haven't mentioned and recommend this guy and player before. After a closer look of him: Stanislav Lobotka

If not De Jong. Stanislav Lobotka is the deep laying cm playmaker United and Ten Hag shall go for. As a complete and allround cm playmaker. I rate Stanislav Lobotka over Eriksen and Sabitzer.

So this is mine new updatings :

+ A top and beast of CB = Haven't decide yet. Kim Min Jae or Antonio Silva from Benfica

+ Stanislav Lobotka. Deep laying cm playmaker

+ A top CF. Osihmen, Kane, Ramos and others alternatives = haven't decide yet which i would pick yet



Clearly the 3 positions where Ten Hag and United need to strength most. 3 positions where United can improve most.

I like Lobotka but he just extended his contract unfortunately

 

[IFC 1905]

I don’t know why the world isn’t behind Thiago Almada yet

We need Thiago Almada. We absolutely need him.

 

[IFC 1905]

I don’t know why the world isn’t behind Thiago Almada yet

We need Thiago Almada. We absolutely need him.

This is from a game the other day, MLS. The league is weak as feck, but you can see the control, the passing range, the goal scoring ability. He looks like a 15 years old but with a little bit of work he can be spectacular. Every attacking chance went through him.

21 years old. Already a world champion with Argentina, he will command the next generation along with Enzo, Garnacho, Nico Paz.

He was combining with Messi yesterday and you can see he plays at the same speed Messi does, which is not easy to do at all, they looked to each other constantly.

Can't be that expensive.

 

[golden_blunder]

Pay release fee of Kim Min Jae
Swap Victor Lindelof for Dumfries
Sign Evan Ferguson 50m + 10 in future bonuses
Sign Moussa Dembele on free
Sign Mike Maignan for 60m
Sign Rabiot for free
Sign McAllister for 60m

sell/release/swap
Lindelof - swap
Maguire - 30m
McTominay 25m
Dalot 25m
Henderson 25m
Martial - 30m
Greenwood - release
Williams - 5m
VdB - loan till he gets fitness back then sell

Maignan / DeGea
Dumfries / AWB
Varane / Shaw
Martinez / Kim
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rabiot
McAllister / Eriksen
Bruno / Sancho
Rashford / Diallo
Ferguson / Dembele
Anthony / Pellestri

squad capable of challenging for league and cups

 

[croadyman]

Pay release fee of Kim Min Jae
Swap Victor Lindelof for Dumfries
Sign Evan Ferguson 50m + 10 in future bonuses
Sign Moussa Dembele on free
Sign Mike Maignan for 60m
Sign Rabiot for free
Sign McAllister for 60m

sell/release/swap
Lindelof - swap
Maguire - 30m
McTominay 25m
Dalot 25m
Henderson 25m
Martial - 30m
Greenwood - release
Williams - 5m
VdB - loan till he gets fitness back then sell

Maignan / DeGea
Dumfries / AWB
Varane / Shaw
Martinez / Kim
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rabiot
McAllister / Eriksen
Bruno / Sancho
Rashford / Diallo
Ferguson / Dembele
Anthony / Pellestri

squad capable of challenging for league and cups

We may well have to look at this sort of window if those fecking leeches dig their heels in further. Erik deserves his first choices after being forced to only get loan deals and pass on the likes of Gakpo in January

 

[bucky]

Pay release fee of Kim Min Jae
Swap Victor Lindelof for Dumfries
Sign Evan Ferguson 50m + 10 in future bonuses
Sign Moussa Dembele on free
Sign Mike Maignan for 60m
Sign Rabiot for free
Sign McAllister for 60m

sell/release/swap
Lindelof - swap
Maguire - 30m
McTominay 25m
Dalot 25m
Henderson 25m
Martial - 30m
Greenwood - release
Williams - 5m
VdB - loan till he gets fitness back then sell

Maignan / DeGea
Dumfries / AWB
Varane / Shaw
Martinez / Kim
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rabiot
McAllister / Eriksen
Bruno / Sancho
Rashford / Diallo
Ferguson / Dembele
Anthony / Pellestri

squad capable of challenging for league and cups

Dumfries is not an improvement over Dalot or AWB. Shaw is not going to be the backup RCB. Ten Hag clearly wants his LCB to be left-footed, which Kim is not. Unless the plan was to play him at RCB instead of Varane, when is he injured or needs a rest, this won't happen. Even as second choice, I don't think we should look at Dembele, we need a more reliable striker, when Ferguson is still young and learning.

 

[golden_blunder]

Dumfries is not an improvement over Dalot or AWB. Shaw is not going to be the backup RCB. Ten Hag clearly wants his LCB to be left-footed, which Kim is not. Unless the plan was to play him at RCB instead of Varane, when is he injured or needs a rest, this won't happen. Even as second choice, I don't think we should look at Dembele, we need a more reliable striker, when Ferguson is still young and learning.

Dumfries is without doubt better at attacking. So have one better going forward and one better at defending.

Dembele possibly right but he’s as good as the likes of Thuram. Obviously in an ideal world we’d spend more but the list I have would cost around 180m not including wages or agent fees

 

[sullydnl]

This is the starting 11 I'd be looking to get to, because with the right players it could be a side that seriously challenges (even if it isn't perfect).

X
X - Varane - Martinez - Shaw
Casemiro - X
Antony - Bruno - Rashford
X
​

And given we usually try to sign around four players a year, it isn't necessarily that far away.

But there will likely be signings other signings needed for squad composition too. CB being the obvious example given both Maguire and Lindelof may want to leave this summer, though there may be other exits we don't anticipate too. So we probably won't have the resources to hit all those starting eleven positions this summer.

But still, signings in any of those position have the potential to improve us a lot. One of the fun things with this team at the moment is that we're already doing relatively well while also having very clear, easy upgrades to make. It's hard to imagine we won't be better again next season.

​

 

[bucky]

Dumfries is without doubt better at attacking. So have one better going forward and one better at defending.

Dembele possibly right but he’s as good as the likes of Thuram. Obviously in an ideal world we’d spend more but the list I have would cost around 180m not including wages or agent fees

Surprised that you value Dumfries from attacking point of view so much. I'm fairly sure, I've read posts of you on here that were along the lines of what happened to defenders that can defend. Regardless of that, Dumfries is not all that in possession, we already have quite a few players that lose possession relatively often or are unsuited to a possession-based style that we most likely will transition to. Dumfries is ill-fitted for that approach. If it's true that Ten Hag has been giving our recruitment department very specific demands of what he wants from his players, then I'm fairly sure someone like Geertruida is more suited to what he is looking for.

Thuram might not be what we are hoping for as the solution to our striker conundrum, but he's definitely better than Dembele. There is a reason one is making arguably the deepest squad on international level, while the other is second choice to Lacazette on club level.

For what it's worth I agree with your value approach in terms of recruitment and I like players like Maignan, Kim, Mac Allister and Ferguson.

 

[daba]

Surprised that you value Dumfries from attacking point of view so much. I'm fairly sure, I've read posts of you on here that were along the lines of whappened to defenders that can defend. Regardless of that, Dumfries is not all that in possession, we already have quite a few players that lose possession relatively often or are unsuited to a possession-based style that we most likely will transition to. Dumfries is ill-fitted for that approach. If it's true that Ten Hag has been giving our recruitment department very specific demands of what he wants from his players, then I'm fairly sure someone like Geertruida is more suited to what he is looking for.

Thuram might not be what we are hoping for as the solution to our striker conundrum, but he's definitely better than Dembele. There is a reason one is making arguably the deepest squad on international level, while the other is second choice to Lacazette on club level.

For what it's worth I agree with your value approach in terms of recruitment and I like players like Maignan, Kim, Mac Allister and Ferguson.

I think it’s pretty obvious Thuram would be a better signing given he’s currently having a much better season, is more versatile and very much on an upward trajectory.

However, if we are signing another striker (whether that’s Kane, Osimhen, Ramos, Ferguson etc) I think someone like Dembele would be happier playing second fiddle for a few years.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

Current thoughts, assuming we get taken over -
GK: Keep DDG but allow him to mentor a young ball playing GK like Bart Verbruggen from Anderlecht
RB: Neither Dalot or AWB are top drawer. Try to get DD on a reasonable new deal and sell AWB as he has more value. Bring in Jeremie Frimpong from Leverkusen.
LB: Shaw and Malacia are fine here.
CD: Maguire needs to go and Lindelof wants to go. Bring in Giorgio Scalvini (right footer) from Atalanta and William Pacho (left footer) from Antwerp to shadow Varane and Martinez.
DM/CM: Casemiro is the man. Jude Bellingham is a must sign. I'd also bring in Krephren Thuram as someone who can drive forward from just in front of the defence, ala FDJ. Backups are Eriksen, Fred and Mainoo.
AM: Bruno Fernandes becomes permanent captain. Sancho as backup.
RW: Antony and the returning Amad Diallo are good for this position. Bruno to play here as needed too.
LW: Rashford needs a new deal. Garnacho to back him up. Sancho as a rotation option here and other AM/wing positions.
ST: Osimhen will be ridiculously expensive. Kane too old. Therefore, I'd go for Evan Ferguson for the long term future with Marcus Thuram on a free in rotation. Martial kept around because he's on too much to sell and is still very talented the few occasions he's fit.

 

[Appletonred]

Assuming Qatar will be the new owners:

Out:
Jones
Maguire
Martial
Greenwood
Mctominay
Henderson
Telles
De Gea
Wan Bissaka

In:
Bellingham
Osimhen
Palhina
Timber
Costa
Ferguson

 

[daba]

Current thoughts, assuming we get taken over -
GK: Keep DDG but allow him to mentor a young ball playing GK like Bart Verbruggen from Anderlecht
RB: Neither Dalot or AWB are top drawer. Try to get DD on a reasonable new deal and sell AWB as he has more value. Bring in Jeremie Frimpong from Leverkusen.
LB: Shaw and Malacia are fine here.
CD: Maguire needs to go and Lindelof wants to go. Bring in Giorgio Scalvini (right footer) from Atalanta and William Pacho (left footer) from Antwerp to shadow Varane and Martinez.
DM/CM: Casemiro is the man. Jude Bellingham is a must sign. I'd also bring in Krephren Thuram as someone who can drive forward from just in front of the defence, ala FDJ. Backups are Eriksen, Fred and Mainoo.
AM: Bruno Fernandes becomes permanent captain. Sancho as backup.
RW: Antony and the returning Amad Diallo are good for this position. Bruno to play here as needed too.
LW: Rashford needs a new deal. Garnacho to back him up. Sancho as a rotation option here and other AM/wing positions.
ST: Osimhen will be ridiculously expensive. Kane too old. Therefore, I'd go for Evan Ferguson for the long term future with Marcus Thuram on a free in rotation. Martial kept around because he's on too much to sell and is still very talented the few occasions he's fit.

If Jude isn’t possible who do you like?

I’d quite like to see Bennacer and either Lavia or Rabiot come in.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

If Jude isn’t possible who do you like?

I’d quite like to see Bennacer and either Lavia or Rabiot come in.

All three are good but I’m less sure on Rabiot with the inconsistency and the baggage that accompanies him.

Different profile of player but Ugarte at Sporting is also impressive.

I don’t even necessarily see a definite need for Bellingham in terms of profile of player but he just feels like someone we can’t miss out on. I can see him becoming the best English player in many many years and he just screams future captain. English players are often overrated and overpriced but they are still important to have around a PL squad and Jude could be the best available. Especially as I’m not convinced by many of our emerging academy players.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.

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This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives

Very interesting

 

[bucky]

I think it’s pretty obvious Thuram would be a better signing given he’s currently having a much better season, is more versatile and very much on an upward trajectory.

However, if we are signing another striker (whether that’s Kane, Osimhen, Ramos, Ferguson etc) I think someone like Dembele would be happier playing second fiddle for a few years.

I'm fairly certain, if we were to go for Kane, Osimhen or Ramos, we wouldn't be signing Thuram. Thuram only makes sense, if we choose to reinforce other areas, which would limit our budget, and/or go for players like Ferguson, who'll need time.

 

[jesperjaap]

I agree but Who though.?

Well Bellingham or DeJOng are the obvious choices , but not sure either want to come....and I think out huge money transfer goes on a striker anyway Caqueret, Kmbempe Thuram are two good options I feel and neither cost a bomb in terms of current fees