We absolutely CANNOT go into a new season with a plan that Martinez and Shaw will be fit. That’s crazy.
What do we still need? Aka The never ending story
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
We'll need a new starting RCB (Todibo) and backup RCB (Tosin), a new LB (Miguel Guttierez) so that we can assume one of Shaw or Martinez will be fit to be LCB, and then the new LB can start if Shaw is out, but can rotate with him to keep him fresh if all are fit anyway. And then if both are out, we can pick 2 from Todibo, Tosin, kambwala to start. It's not ideal but they're parts of the squad and you gotta keep a role for them and assume it won't be this bad, but at least have some level of reliable backup there.
We can’t assume anything. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!
martinez, none of us know is he going to be the same player again or will he be prone to injuries going forward?
we know that shaw can’t stay fit for a full season, the evidence is there on his record.
For sure. But they are part of the squad so they are inevitably given a role. You can't sign replacements but then consider them as parts of the squad in case the injury is a one off. But you can prepare to be flexible in the event of some injuries, which we weren't this year.
Guttierez at LB keeps us safe there if Shaw is injured or fit, I'd assume Malacia will play a bit more but he'd have to work back into his role or is sold summer 2025. LCB between Martinez and Shaw as the main choices, but if both are out, then yeah we still have some cover. But you can't do squad planning where you replace them, but then still have them in the squad. Either sell them or keep them and have a role for them. But given both are starting 11 players and very good players, we can't replace them and assume they'll be injured for good without selling them. They're on far too much money for that and we have far too much to do. That's why we just sign some flexible players who can cover around.
My point is we need to ensure that there is cover for these 2 positions. Malacia I’d forgotten because he was out for a year too. We don’t want to be using inadequate players at left back like we have done this year.
likewise for both CB roles too since Varane is also unreliable. Nearly a full defence needed. So whoever we buy, young or old should be good enough for first team now, because no doubt they will get plenty of playing time!
likewise for both CB roles too since Varane is also unreliable. Nearly a full defence needed. So whoever we buy, young or old should be good enough for first team now, because no doubt they will get plenty of playing time!
We need to hedge ourselves against long term injuries to the two players who play key positions on one side of the pitch. It's not negotiable and you can never have too many good players because games are too many and you need to rotate anyway. What is key is that we scout and recruit well so that hopefully getting an LB and LCB in costs us a combined fee below 80m and 200k in wages for both.
That’s exactly the point, more football, faster players, more injuries, even without European football we need 9/10 defenders for next season;
And at the same time we need to address our current weaknesses in this part of the team;
1. Centre Backs lack mobility, speed and ability on the ball
2. Key players like Martinez and Shaw have injury issues
3. Four of our CB’s are near or over 30
4. Full/Wing Backs lack creativity and talent on the ball
5. Struggle to play a high line due to lack of Pace and defending wide areas
6. Lack a leader/Captain from the defence who can see the game in front and shout instructions to team mates.
We need to be decisive, we can’t sell Martinez, Shaw or Mallacia this summer however we can sell/release the following, R Varanne, V Lindelof, AWB and J Evans.
We might only receive £20m for AWB and £10m for V Lindelof. So £30m however we would save RV(350), VL(120), AWB(100) and JE(60) a total of about £630k per week on the books this adds about £36m per year in transfer and wages to the current accounts.
To solve the issue’s above we need two CB’s, a RB and a LB.
Player signings for Defence;
CB - J C Todibo (40m/80k) 5 year contract on Budget (£8m+4m=£12m per year)
CB - J Branthwaite(63m/80k) 5 year contract on Budget (12.5m+4m=£16.5m per year)
RWB - J Frimpong(35m/120k) 5 year contract on Budget (7m+6m=£13m per year.
LB/LWB - M Guiterez(25m/75k) 5 Year contract on budget( 5m+3.9m = £8.9m per year
This would mean the club would have increased their yearly budget on defence by £14m per year from £36m which was freed up by selling and releasing players in the summer window to a new cost of £50m, that might be too much, so Wilcox and Asworth, might swap out Todibo for Tosin Adarabioyou or simply not sign Frimpong.
It’s important to note that if they sell Alvaro Fernandez for £7m that would represent pure profit and could make it easier to go for the 4 players named above requested.
My personal opinion is that the club will recruit 3 defenders, 2 CB’s and a left back and the Bournemouth Left back Milos Kerkez who at 20 would only cost £20m and £40/50k per week wages which is (£6m combined on the accounts) which might be a surprise call.
To really make significant improvements the club needs four defenders and at least two quality Centre Backs. A Man United Squad that featured these options in defence would be a huge improvement;
D Dalot, * J Frimpong(HG), L Shaw(HG),
*M Gutierrez, H McGuire(HG), L Martinez,
* J Branthwaite(HG), J C Todibo, W Kambwala(HG), T Mallacia,
That’s enough options for a team that might only play 40-45 games next season without European football. If we qualify for Europa I’d sign another defender who can cover on a free and the surprise option would be Lloyd Kelly whose 25, available on a free and versatile if we can’t sign Tosin Adarabioyou. The potty marquee signings will be replaced with more hardworking players that can’t believe their luck that they are playing for Man United, whether we as fans like it or not.
Jason Wilcox will know Adarbioyou, J Sancho, J Frimpong and many others that he might feel are better options for the club, watch out soon for United being linked soon for D Solanki, K Dewsbury-Hall, A Gray, A Scott and many more young English players coming through right now.
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They are two of our 5 best and most important players. Neither of them are aging out any time soon, and should both be part of the plan moving forward. They're two of the very few that SHOULD, in fact. The only others I'd put on that list for sure are Dalot, Mainoo, Garnacho, and Hojlund...and even Hojlund shouldn't even be considered a nailed-on starter next season.
Shaw played 47 matches last season, Licha played 45. You have to operate under the assumption that they'll be ready for another season like that.
We desperately need a new right center back, a new holding midfielder, and a new right winger in the first eleven, at the very least. If we don't prioritize upgrading those positions for next season there's really no point trying to find a couple left-sided defenders as well because we'll just be in another battle for 6th through 8th.
How many have they played this season?
what’s Shaws average over the past 5 years?
im not debating that they are good players, they are but they are unreliable, especially shaw. Martinez we don’t know yet but he’s had 2 bad injuries this year
Call me crazy, but if we signed Frimpong I would play him as a right winger. Dalot and Frimpong working together down the right side of the pitch would be lethal.
That being said, why would Frimpong come to a Conference League club when he could go to basically any club in the world now? He's a menace and everyone will want him.
Hell, City will need to replace Walker at some point soon, and Frimpong would absolutely eat in that lineup.
That's why you don't go in assuming both will be regularly fit, but you can't replace them fully. Sign a LB who is ready to start and younger since we need that anyway, and that way Shaw can swap between LCB and LB when needed, or be rested normally. Likewise Martinez can be rested for Shaw when needed. If both get freak injuries, then you play the other CBs like the 2 signings we'll need to make at RCB anyway in addition to whoever will remain from kambwala/Evans/Maguire/Lindelof/Varane.
Has anyone watched Ait-Nouri from Wolves? He has caught my eye offensively every time I've watched him. 22 years old, knows the Prem, and has 2 years left on his contract.
Yes I like him. Seems to have a good solid all round game. Might be out of reach for this summer though.
This is where I differ from you, I assume that both will be out at various stages of the season with injuries and quite possibly at the same time. I just want us to ensure that we are covered for that eventuality.
Otherwise I think we’re both saying the same thing
I wouldn't really want Dalot and Frimpong in the same lineup. I think you'd be better off having the left back play as a third CB in possessions (a job both Shaw and Martinez are well suited to) so that you could give Frimpong the freedom of the right wing plus somebody coming infield for him to bounce off. He'd be incredible.
I think we still have enough pull to sign him, but I don't think we'll sign a right back unless someone leaves. And I don't think either of them will.
Agree on where to play him, he’s another who has a very strong relationship with Jason Wilcox who was his coach from 2013/14 to 2016/17 he had Foden, Tosin, Brahm Diaz, Jeremie Frimpong and Jadon Sancho plus many more.
I don’t think United fans realise what a good move Wilcox is, especially with recognising young talent. After his success as a youth manager he became their Academy Director until 2023, this guy knows a young talent and then some.
Did I read that Newcastle may need to offload players to balance their books? I’d be made up if we could take Isak off them. One hell of a finisher that lad
When you watch the CL teams, you really just think it's Garnacho and Mainoo assuming normal progression in a year or 2, along with Lisandro and Dalot (not super sharp but physically up to it) who fit at the top sides, and then I guess Bruno or Hojlund (assuming normal progression in a couple years) at a Dortmund or Atletico QF sort of team that is a bit lucky to make the semis.
CB - Todibo
DM - Onana
RW - Olise
ST - Toney
DM - Onana
RW - Olise
ST - Toney
Its really hard for me to see how only 4 new players will bring such dramatic change to this team.
I’m banking on Martinez not having such bad luck and Shaw (bigger gamble) staying fit. For example.
Onana
Dalot-Todibo-Martinez—Shaw
Onana
Mainoo Bruno
Olise—Toney—Garnacho
With Hoijlund rotating with Toney, on paper looks a far far better team than what we have now
What we need is a trainer and fitness team that can stop all these injuries occurring before we sign new players. We could have the best 11 in the world but it's no good if they get injured in training or aren't fit enough to get through a season. We still don't have a real Leader, someone to inspire the players. Rolling about and waving your arms about doesn't do that. I don't see anyone in the current squad to fit that role.
Who needs a competent manager when you have true leader
What is the expectation with that team? Midtable?
Hell of a player you mean, good on the ball
We just need to avoid what we did with Ten Hag. Yes he is good and all but we shouldn't sign every youth player he has ever worked with or deferring to him over our scouts. Frimpong is a great wingback but could be a disaster at fullback in this league and lose all the confidence he has now.
Watching last night's leg of the CL semis man we are so far off the standards required for that level. One moment at around the 48th minute stood out to me, Kroos misplaced a pass to Rodrygo and he was ashamed of himself like he had pooped in his own pants - here Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford et al do this routinely and they take it on the chin like it's normal.
Work off the ball from all the four sides was immense, the only player we had who measured up to that was Fred. We know he had his issues on the ball but Madrid and City have like 20 Freds who all have nearly the technical ability of Mata/Xavi. Here a player controls the ball once and we treat him like he is the 2nd coming of Scholes.
Whatever positions we fill we need that work rate, the standards reinstated to what they were before and it shouldn't be optional. Work off the ball is prerequisite at that level.
Here's my take on that:
3x 90m
------------------------------Hojlund--------------------------------
-----------------------------Wellbeck (free)---------------------
Garnacho--------------------------------------Palmer (90m)
Amad-------------------------------------------------------Antony
-------------------------------Bruno----------------------------------
-------------------------------Mount---------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------Neves (90m)-----------Mainoo--------------
----------------Oyedele (21s)------------Mount--------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaw-----------------------------------------------------------Dalot
Malacia--------------------------------------------------------AWB
----------------------Martinez-------Silva (90m)--------------
------------------------Shaw------------Maguire------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------Onana----------------------------------
---------------------------------WGAF----------------------------------
My head hurts. This is going to take years to fix. I think the smart plan is to sign the best u23 players on the market every summer that Real don’t hoover up. Supplement that with free transfers and youth players from our own setup. Churn the talent. Nobody has a free pass here anymore. If you’re coming here to sit on your arse we will admit our mistake call you out and move you on. Keep everyone on their toes. Always be striving for better, from the very top down. I think genuinely that’s the main ingredient that’s been missing this whole time. The glazers had to cajoled into making even minor changes for the better. Hopefully under this new thing our owners will be constantly raising the bar. Things can go stale very quickly when it comes to talent and large amounts of money if there is no challenge or common goal there. We need to send the message that isn’t going to be the sell out destination for second rate social media stars and players on the way down anymore.
Who would you go for instead then?
M Olise and Frimpong are a coach like ETH’s wet dream, he simply plays Dalot or L Shaw as left inverted full back which means we set up 3251 Todibo is a right sided centre back that is comfortable shifting accross to play a high line and allow the wing back right to push up high up the pitch, when you have the ball he would simply push Shaw or Dalot to play alongside Kobbie Mainoo in deep lying playmakers with the new DM dropping between Martinez and Todibo if we buy him to make a there with pace that attack the ball. Frimpong and Olise would operate a slinghot right attacking side where one comes inside and the other goes outside, they constantly change and cause the opposition nightmares. Both hugely creative which is why we need another number nine, to finish the chances, Sesco or Solanki would be both be great signing with these two. Ironically this would be an ideal role for Amad too, who’s more of a playmaker/winger.
With that system, AWB will never be good enough to play right wing back as he offers very little going forward.
Frimpong was at city under Wilcox and he’s another well known United fan, so yes he would come to us, I’m pretty confident of that.
The reality without Europa or CL football the budget will drop from £250m net to more like £125m and that’s the rumour.
Plus what we sell, so more critical than ever this season is to sell players, realistically I can only see the following going out the door and a much reduced prices to what people think.
V Lindelof(15m), T Malicia(10m),
B Williams(5m), A Fernandez (Don’t see this being triggered) returns back
R Varane(Free), Casemiro(20m), DVB(5m), Hanibal(10m), F Pellistri(10m),
C Eriksen(5m), M Greenwood(25m) ,
F Pellistri(10m), S Amrabat (Returned)
That’s 11-12. players for approximately £100m or £30m saved yearly on the budget however Greenwood and
B Williams will be shown as net profit so will help, the real saving is the wages because releasing or selling all these players will save the club £1.4m per week or add £70m to the £30m transfer, probably releases £100m on our annual budget.
For Example - J Branthwaite at £70m on a 5 year contract at £4m per year or 80k per week would cost £14m for transfer fee amortised and an allowance of £4m for wages so £18m per year out of the budget.
Add A Victor Osimhen at £125m and £400k per week and that costs £25m plus £20m which is 45M per year and leaves you not much less, maybe enough to buy 1 elite midfielder and a cheap left back maybe
I don’t see the club selling A Fernandez, H Maguire, Amad, S Mctominay, AWB, J Sancho and Antony. The last two wages are far too high, Antony will stay and Sancho will go on loan again.
This summer with no European football, the club needs to sign at least two very good free signings but they still need a signing on fee.
Plus what we sell, so more critical than ever this season is to sell players, realistically I can only see the following going out the door and a much reduced prices to what people think.
V Lindelof(15m), T Malicia(10m),
B Williams(5m), A Fernandez (Don’t see this being triggered) returns back
R Varane(Free), Casemiro(20m), DVB(5m), Hanibal(10m), F Pellistri(10m),
C Eriksen(5m), M Greenwood(25m) ,
F Pellistri(10m), S Amrabat (Returned)
That’s 11-12. players for approximately £100m or £30m saved yearly on the budget however Greenwood and
B Williams will be shown as net profit so will help, the real saving is the wages because releasing or selling all these players will save the club £1.4m per week or add £70m to the £30m transfer, probably releases £100m on our annual budget.
For Example - J Branthwaite at £70m on a 5 year contract at £4m per year or 80k per week would cost £14m for transfer fee amortised and an allowance of £4m for wages so £18m per year out of the budget.
Add A Victor Osimhen at £125m and £400k per week and that costs £25m plus £20m which is 45M per year and leaves you not much less, maybe enough to buy 1 elite midfielder and a cheap left back maybe
I don’t see the club selling A Fernandez, H Maguire, Amad, S Mctominay, AWB, J Sancho and Antony. The last two wages are far too high, Antony will stay and Sancho will go on loan again.
This summer with no European football, the club needs to sign at least two very good free signings but they still need a signing on fee.
We shuld be moving on 14-15 this and buying 8/9.....and with some young talent ut there we could do it for pretty much a zero net spend.....but Dalot will stay and so will Rashford when there are much better players fr both positions whih forme outside of cb and actually priorities that could signifiantly move usforward and wecould makea profit doing so butno....we willcontinue with a bang average rb and pssibly sell the betterone and continue paying £300k a weekfor a talentedplayer that has probably had 50-80 good to great performances in near 40 and more awful ones....make that make sense
We need to up the athleticism of our side. We need to become a machine. That doesn't mean brute strength and size, that means we need a left back that can be up and down for 90 minutes at close to full intensity, we need centre halfs that are animals in the air and have the speed to play a high line and still be able to cover the space behind them. We need midfielders who have a third lung.
It is not as fanciful as it sounds, I watch all the top teams have a base line of athleticism, Real Madrid, Atletico, Bayern, Bayer Leverkusen (this year), Inter, Liverpool etc
We need savages in our side, mentality monsters, and a system that brings out the best in them.
It is not as fanciful as it sounds, I watch all the top teams have a base line of athleticism, Real Madrid, Atletico, Bayern, Bayer Leverkusen (this year), Inter, Liverpool etc
We need savages in our side, mentality monsters, and a system that brings out the best in them.
Completely agree so who would you like to see us bring in this summer,bear in mind we may well have no European football at all
My signings would be:
CB: Simakan
CB: Sildilla
LB: Ait-Nouri
CDM: Zubimendi
CM: Joao Gomes
ST: Zirkzee
The biggest name is Zubimendi but he has a release clause for 52 million.
It might be difficult to take two players from Wolves and if I only had to make one, it would be Ait-Nouri who I think is the next left back to make a move to a bigger club.
Simakan is a powerful centre back, currently at Leipzig and I believe he is made to be a premier league player. Sildilla plays for Freiburg in the Bundesliga as a CB/RB and is a very interesting young talent for us to look at. I believe he will make a move to a bigger German side soon and everyone will question why we didnt go for him when he was available for a cheaper price. I would also keep an eye on Kim Min-Jae' situation at Bayern, depending on how the new coach is, he might be a terrific option here.
Zubimendi would be the most important signing we've made in years. He would sit in that midfield next to Mainoo and be able to dictate play for us, has a great work ethic and incredibly press resistant.
They might not be flashy names, but these are players who are young but experienced, versatile, good on the ball, great work ethic and all seem to have a good character.
A quality Centre Half with a good injury record... Gleison Bremer is reportedly on our radar this Summer.
You are going to be left short if you’re banking on shaw and Martinez. They are going to pick up injuries next season as well
CB: Bremer
CB: Yoro
LB: Theo Hernandez
RB: Frimpong
CDM: Youssouf Fofana or Zubimendi
CM: Joao Neves
LW: Dream would be Vini Jr, otherwise maybe Johan Bakayoko and Nusa (as young prospects)
Striker: Jonathan David
CB: Yoro
LB: Theo Hernandez
RB: Frimpong
CDM: Youssouf Fofana or Zubimendi
CM: Joao Neves
LW: Dream would be Vini Jr, otherwise maybe Johan Bakayoko and Nusa (as young prospects)
Striker: Jonathan David
you realize that this list would cost around 500m?