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What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
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Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,785
Varane is leaving, Martinez has been very unlucky with injury and Evans is ancient. Meanwhile Maguire and Lindelof have 1 year left in their contract and aren't good enough so we either sell them now or they leave on a free. I'd say we should go for 3 CBs. Braithwaite, Todibo/Yoro and Kelly/Tosin.,Evans stays for another year with Kambwala as cover.
 

redNATION

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Near the Tannhäuser Gate
you realize that this list would cost around 500m?
Our rebuild clearly can’t take place over one summer, we’ve screwed up our transfers so badly it’ll take 2-3 windows to fix it. We’ll need to focus on priority positions (CB, CDM, striker) this summer and perhaps the younger players we can target in another window. Yes it would cost 400-500m, but is that unusual for us? Seems par for the course, given what ETH has already spent.
 

AdNani

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Jun 25, 2014
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You are going to be left short if you’re banking on shaw and Martinez. They are going to pick up injuries next season as well
Martinez has never had a season like this one before so nothing to suggest that.
Shaw I have no doubts will pick up injuries
 

golden_blunder

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Dublin, Ireland
Martinez has never had a season like this one before so nothing to suggest that.
Shaw I have no doubts will pick up injuries
Martinez has just suffered a very bad injury then a reoccurrence. I suspect he will be prone to niggling injuries going forward.
 

jesperjaap

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Jun 23, 2014
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5,777
Martinez has never had a season like this one before so nothing to suggest that.
Shaw I have no doubts will pick up injuries
Well we have been unfortunate with the Malacia injury too. I personally think its solved by signing a quality left back.

Fit and on form Martinez/Shaw start

Martinez injured, Shaw canplay lcb new signing plays lb

There is still the cover of Malacia in those options and ideally we get a young lcb too.

Add Amass and Kambwalla and there isplenty of cover.

Signings maybe like Dorgu/Anselmioprobably only costs £50m and plenty of other names too.

I thinkits just vital we are brave andvery quik this summer in terms of moving players out. As there are a good 8 have to move ons andjust as many should move ons.We ould genuinely raise £300m from sales, spend £350-400m andpotentially solve lots of our problems....of course it isnt that simplewhen youlook at what Chelsea spent last year....mainly on good players too.

But this "take 2-3windows at elast t rebuild"....its nonsense,hearthat every seasn
 

Matt Varnish

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Aug 21, 2023
Messages
1,037
Martinez has missed 48 games in two seasons.
A calf strain being the latest, with Mount out with the same problem I'm beginning to think the training is suspect, rather than players being injury prone.
 

croadyman

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Mar 9, 2018
Messages
35,099
My signings would be:

CB: Simakan
CB: Sildilla
LB: Ait-Nouri
CDM: Zubimendi
CM: Joao Gomes
ST: Zirkzee


The biggest name is Zubimendi but he has a release clause for 52 million.
It might be difficult to take two players from Wolves and if I only had to make one, it would be Ait-Nouri who I think is the next left back to make a move to a bigger club.

Simakan is a powerful centre back, currently at Leipzig and I believe he is made to be a premier league player. Sildilla plays for Freiburg in the Bundesliga as a CB/RB and is a very interesting young talent for us to look at. I believe he will make a move to a bigger German side soon and everyone will question why we didnt go for him when he was available for a cheaper price. I would also keep an eye on Kim Min-Jae' situation at Bayern, depending on how the new coach is, he might be a terrific option here.

Zubimendi would be the most important signing we've made in years. He would sit in that midfield next to Mainoo and be able to dictate play for us, has a great work ethic and incredibly press resistant.

They might not be flashy names, but these are players who are young but experienced, versatile, good on the ball, great work ethic and all seem to have a good character.
Well when you look at recent years maybe not targeting flashy names is the way forward
 

jesperjaap

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Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,777
In an ideal world I would actually sell aout 16 and buy 9,but trying to keepit realisticas possible whilst stillmaking ab big change. I would have liked Arhie Gray but the Leeds links and possible promotion, left him out. Also most will prob moan at Dalot sale.....I dont rate him,I do Bissakaandwant to keepa defensiverb....so maybejustswap them being realsitic...prob similar withLindelof/Varane....anyway


The Def Sells/Release
Lindelof
Maguire
Dalot
Eriksen
Casimiro
VDB
Pellestri
McTominay
Martial
Sancho
Greenwood
Rasies about £200m

Diomonde £50m
Neves £100m
Varela £50m
Dorgu £30m
Anderson £40m
Desire Doue £25m
Jonathon David £30
£325m

£125m Net Spend

Onana/Bayindir
Anderson/Bissaka
Diomonde/Varane
Martinez/Shaw
Dorgu/Malacia
Neves/Varela
Mainoo/Doue
Fernandes/Mount
Rashford/Garnacho
Antony/Amad
Hoijlund/David

The key signing here is Doue as I have put him in as Mainoo back up, but I think he can play that roll, that roll alongside Mainoo with a single pivot behind, lw,rw number 10...he saves uf a fortune in the current window both inmaking signings, whilst stop u shaving to move more on, but allows us to plan ahead for possible replacing of Rashford, Fernandes, Antony......actually think our best side long term would be him and Mainoo in front of Neves (potenital world class midfield), but short term, would quickly replace Rashford on the left,Garnaho right side.

Kambwalla, Amass,Fletcher, Lacy - All get chances too....possible progression to next summer sales of Malacia, Varane, Fernandes,Rashford, Antony
 

Mmm-Qatarian

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Messages
1,484
I'm going to try to split my response to this into two parts - the sales and the buys. I'm going to start with the sales, and the way I intend to structure this part of it is to go through each member of the squad on a position-by-position basis listing whether I would keep or sell the player. I will offer a rough estimation of how much I expect we might be able to get for each player I think we should sell (and I intend to be very cautious here), and I'll give a brief explanation at each positional juncture explaining my choices where I feel it's necessary.

Goalkeeper: Andre Onana (keep), Altay Bayindir (keep), Tom Heaton (sell, free agent). Not sure too much explaining needs to be done here. Onana has cemented himself as a solid starter this season after a rocky start. Bayindir should also stay provided he's happy, whilst Heaton is probably gone this summer with his contract expiring.

Full Back: Diogo Dalot (keep), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (keep), Luke Shaw (keep), Tyrell Malacia (sell, 5m), Brandon Williams (sell, free agent), Alvaro Fernandez (sell, free agent). The two big decisions here were Wan Bissaka and Malacia. I like AWB but don't see him as comfortable enough with the ball in the long-run, but I've decided to keep him simply because I think we need to strengthen too many other areas this summer to leave ourselves also needing a right back. Malacia is an unfortunate case. I think there's a capable player in him but, with Shaw as injury prone as he is, I don't think we can risk Malacia being his only back-up given his long-term injury this season so I'd probably look to sell him for whatever money we can get this summer.

Centre Back: Lisandro Martinez (keep), Raphael Varane (sell, free agent), Harry Maguire (sell, 15m), Victor Lindelof (keep), Jonny Evans (sell, free agent), Willy Kambwala (keep). This is probably one of our biggest needs this summer. Huge injury problems at centre back have, in my view, been one of our biggest issues this season so a revamp is needed here. Varane is an easy decision for me - his contract expires and I don't think we should be looking to give him a new one. Evans is also an easy choice - he's been commendable this season given that he's played far more than we could've expected but again, with his contract out this summer we should be letting him go. The big decision for me was between Maguire and Lindelof - some will want to see both gone but realistically I think we'll need to hang on to one of them or else we'll simply be looking to do too much this summer. I've opted to sell Maguire and stick with Lindelof. Whilst I actually think the former is a better player, his wages are also a lot higher and Lindelof offers the additional benefit of being able to fill in at full-back when necessary.

Midfield: Casemiro (keep), Kobbie Mainoo (keep), Bruno Fernandes (keep), Mason Mount (keep), Sofyan Amrabat (sell, loan expires), Christian Eriksen (sell, free), Scott McTominay (keep), Donny van de Beek (sell, 5m), Hannibal Mejbri (sell, 10m). I think the big controversy here will be the decision to keep Casemiro. This is, to be clear, also one that I am very undecided on. The reason I've opted to keep him is because for starters I think he'll be extremely difficult to sell, and also because if we do get rid of him then we are going to need two signings in defensive midfield this summer when we're already going to need a minimum of six players. Finally, with a lot of the players I'm deciding to let go being experienced leaders, I do think that having Casemiro around to bring those qualities could yet be of some value to us. I think the only other possibly controversial one here is keeping hold of McTominay - I've decided to do that because I think he's a solid squad option and, again, I think I have to be realistic as to how much we can hope for in terms of incomings this summer.

Wingers: Alejandro Garnacho (keep), Marcus Rashford (keep), Jadon Sancho (sell, 30m), Antony (keep), Amad Diallo (keep), Facundo Pellistri (sell, 10m), Shola Shoretire (sell, free agent). A less controversial round here I think, with most of the decisions being fairly self-explanatory. I am somewhat torn on Rashford but, in the end, I think again with so much work needed in other areas we don't want to be looking to replace him too. I think having Garnacho, Rashford, Antony and Amad as your four main wide options, with Mount capable of playing there too and perhaps a few academy players being brought into the fold, leaves us in an OK position here for now.

Strikers: Rasmus Hojlund (keep), Anthony Martial (sell, free agent), Mason Greenwood (sell, 30m). Honestly don't have much to add here. I think all three of these are fairly self-explanatory.

So to summarise then, here are all of my sales listed in order of my estimated price tag: Jadon Sancho (30m), Mason Greenwood (30m), Harry Maguire (15m), Hannibal Mejbri (10m), Facundo Pellistri (10m), Donny van de Beek (5m), Tyrell Malacia (5m), Christian Eriksen (free), Tom Heaton (free agent), Brandon Williams (free agent), Alvaro Fernandez (free agent), Raphael Varane (free agent), Jonny Evans (free agent), Anthony Martial (free agent), Sofyan Amrabat (loan expires)

In other words, you'd be seeing 15 of the senior squad leaving with around 105 million made in transfer fees. This is a lot of outgoings for one summer, but it looks somewhat more attainable when you consider that seven of the players on the list will be going this summer anyway provided that they are not offered a new deal. The bigger bonus from these sales, though, is that it'd shave around 87 million off of our annual wage bill, which is a pretty sizeable chunk of the current total which stands at 180 million. (Source: sportrac)

Finally, then, let's look at the remaining senior squad with these sales in mind. For now, I'll not be including academy players outside of the ones who have already played significant minutes this season. I'll be listing players' ages in brackets, alongside the letters HG to denote any senior (i.e. aged 21 or over) homegrown players.

Andre Onana (28), Altay Bayindir (26), Diogo Dalot (25), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (26, HG), Luke Shaw (28, HG), Lisandro Martinez (26), Victor Lindelof (29), Willy Kambwala (19), Casemiro (32), Kobbie Mainoo (19), Bruno Fernandes (29), Mason Mount (25, HG), Scott McTominay (27, HG), Alejandro Garnacho (19), Marcus Rashford (26, HG), Antony (24), Amad Diallo (21), Rasmus Hojlund (21)

With this in mind, we'd have 15 players above the age of 21 needing registering for next season in the Premier League, 10 of whom would be non-homegrown. We thus wouldn't have any major concerns around the Premier League's homegrown rules, with an allowance for up to 17 non-homegrown senior players in a squad.

The registration rules for UEFA competitions should also not prove too difficult, since there you are required to have eight homegrown players with four of them trained at the club's own academy for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21. Mainoo, McTominay, Garnacho and Rashford satisfy the second criteria already, and when you add in Mount, Shaw and Wan Bissaka you're only left needing one more homegrown player to satisfy the first as well. This could come from a new signing , or even from registering an academy player as the third choice keeper.

Additionally, I think the age profile of that squad also starts to look a bit better. You've got a good core of ten players in the peak ages of 24-28, with five further young talents under the age of 21 and three in Bruno, Lindelof and Casemiro bringing more experience to the table.

These sales decisions will, of course, form the basis for my second part post where I'll look into the potential signings that I think might enhance this squad in the summer.
 

aeh1991

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Apr 13, 2022
Messages
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RCB: Todibo 35m
LCB: Inacio / Hincapie 40m
LB: M.Gutierrez 25m
RB: Frimpong / Vanderson 25-35m
DM: Varela / Zubimendi 45m-55m
CM: Thuram / Dewsbury-Hall 30m
RW: Nico Williams 35m
CF: Sesko 40m

Onana
Frimpong-Todibo-Martinez-Shaw
Mainoo-Varela
Nico-Bruno-Garnacho
Sesko
 
Last edited:

Ghostrider318

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Newbie
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Dec 8, 2014
Messages
430
I wonder how much it would cost to get Gibbs-White out of Forest? He's a brilliant player - would do really well at a top team.
They paid like 30m something for him . No way they sell for anything less than 60-70m. Even then, he will occupy Brunos place
 

ROFLUTION

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Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
7,688
Location
Denmark
The (realistic) players I think has that modern play style and would be great to develop. Such a shame some of them are much injury-plagued.

Joao Pedro
Neto
Zaire Emery (18) - 1 year left on his contract
Alphonso Davies - 1 year left on his contract

No brainers:
Tosin

The most important one I can't find a solution to, a big physical and technical player to partner with Mainoo in central midfield and free up Bruno. Someone like Bruno Guimaraes.
 

aeh1991

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Messages
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The (realistic) players I think has that modern play style and would be great to develop. Such a shame some of them are much injury-plagued.

Joao Pedro
Neto
Zaire Emery (18) - 1 year left on his contract
Alphonso Davies - 1 year left on his contract

No brainers:
Tosin

The most important one I can't find a solution to, a big physical and technical player to partner with Mainoo in central midfield and free up Bruno. Someone like Bruno Guimaraes.
A.Davies is likely joining Real and Zaire Emery is 99% extending.
 

Roboc7

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Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,722
LB - Maatsen
CB - Diomande
DM - Zubimendi
CM - Thuram
RW - Bardghji
CF - Sesko

I think that is the type of window we need to add some balance to the squad, realistically probably have to go for cheaper option at CB than Diomande and Zunimendi might be out of reach as well though.

All the players out on loan will either be sold or loaned so from current squad I’d offload Evans, Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen, Amrabat, Antony and Martial.

There are plenty of others we need to get rid of and we need more players in but there is only so much that can be done in one window. I think INEOS will also try and bring in a youngster or two who get loaned out like the CB from Boca etc.
 

Woziak

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May 8, 2018
Messages
3,776
I'm going to try to split my response to this into two parts - the sales and the buys. I'm going to start with the sales, and the way I intend to structure this part of it is to go through each member of the squad on a position-by-position basis listing whether I would keep or sell the player. I will offer a rough estimation of how much I expect we might be able to get for each player I think we should sell (and I intend to be very cautious here), and I'll give a brief explanation at each positional juncture explaining my choices where I feel it's necessary.

Goalkeeper: Andre Onana (keep), Altay Bayindir (keep), Tom Heaton (sell, free agent). Not sure too much explaining needs to be done here. Onana has cemented himself as a solid starter this season after a rocky start. Bayindir should also stay provided he's happy, whilst Heaton is probably gone this summer with his contract expiring.

Full Back: Diogo Dalot (keep), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (keep), Luke Shaw (keep), Tyrell Malacia (sell, 5m), Brandon Williams (sell, free agent), Alvaro Fernandez (sell, free agent). The two big decisions here were Wan Bissaka and Malacia. I like AWB but don't see him as comfortable enough with the ball in the long-run, but I've decided to keep him simply because I think we need to strengthen too many other areas this summer to leave ourselves also needing a right back. Malacia is an unfortunate case. I think there's a capable player in him but, with Shaw as injury prone as he is, I don't think we can risk Malacia being his only back-up given his long-term injury this season so I'd probably look to sell him for whatever money we can get this summer.

Centre Back: Lisandro Martinez (keep), Raphael Varane (sell, free agent), Harry Maguire (sell, 15m), Victor Lindelof (keep), Jonny Evans (sell, free agent), Willy Kambwala (keep). This is probably one of our biggest needs this summer. Huge injury problems at centre back have, in my view, been one of our biggest issues this season so a revamp is needed here. Varane is an easy decision for me - his contract expires and I don't think we should be looking to give him a new one. Evans is also an easy choice - he's been commendable this season given that he's played far more than we could've expected but again, with his contract out this summer we should be letting him go. The big decision for me was between Maguire and Lindelof - some will want to see both gone but realistically I think we'll need to hang on to one of them or else we'll simply be looking to do too much this summer. I've opted to sell Maguire and stick with Lindelof. Whilst I actually think the former is a better player, his wages are also a lot higher and Lindelof offers the additional benefit of being able to fill in at full-back when necessary.

Midfield: Casemiro (keep), Kobbie Mainoo (keep), Bruno Fernandes (keep), Mason Mount (keep), Sofyan Amrabat (sell, loan expires), Christian Eriksen (sell, free), Scott McTominay (keep), Donny van de Beek (sell, 5m), Hannibal Mejbri (sell, 10m). I think the big controversy here will be the decision to keep Casemiro. This is, to be clear, also one that I am very undecided on. The reason I've opted to keep him is because for starters I think he'll be extremely difficult to sell, and also because if we do get rid of him then we are going to need two signings in defensive midfield this summer when we're already going to need a minimum of six players. Finally, with a lot of the players I'm deciding to let go being experienced leaders, I do think that having Casemiro around to bring those qualities could yet be of some value to us. I think the only other possibly controversial one here is keeping hold of McTominay - I've decided to do that because I think he's a solid squad option and, again, I think I have to be realistic as to how much we can hope for in terms of incomings this summer.

Wingers: Alejandro Garnacho (keep), Marcus Rashford (keep), Jadon Sancho (sell, 30m), Antony (keep), Amad Diallo (keep), Facundo Pellistri (sell, 10m), Shola Shoretire (sell, free agent). A less controversial round here I think, with most of the decisions being fairly self-explanatory. I am somewhat torn on Rashford but, in the end, I think again with so much work needed in other areas we don't want to be looking to replace him too. I think having Garnacho, Rashford, Antony and Amad as your four main wide options, with Mount capable of playing there too and perhaps a few academy players being brought into the fold, leaves us in an OK position here for now.

Strikers: Rasmus Hojlund (keep), Anthony Martial (sell, free agent), Mason Greenwood (sell, 30m). Honestly don't have much to add here. I think all three of these are fairly self-explanatory.

So to summarise then, here are all of my sales listed in order of my estimated price tag: Jadon Sancho (30m), Mason Greenwood (30m), Harry Maguire (15m), Hannibal Mejbri (10m), Facundo Pellistri (10m), Donny van de Beek (5m), Tyrell Malacia (5m), Christian Eriksen (free), Tom Heaton (free agent), Brandon Williams (free agent), Alvaro Fernandez (free agent), Raphael Varane (free agent), Jonny Evans (free agent), Anthony Martial (free agent), Sofyan Amrabat (loan expires)

In other words, you'd be seeing 15 of the senior squad leaving with around 105 million made in transfer fees. This is a lot of outgoings for one summer, but it looks somewhat more attainable when you consider that seven of the players on the list will be going this summer anyway provided that they are not offered a new deal. The bigger bonus from these sales, though, is that it'd shave around 87 million off of our annual wage bill, which is a pretty sizeable chunk of the current total which stands at 180 million. (Source: sportrac)

Finally, then, let's look at the remaining senior squad with these sales in mind. For now, I'll not be including academy players outside of the ones who have already played significant minutes this season. I'll be listing players' ages in brackets, alongside the letters HG to denote any senior (i.e. aged 21 or over) homegrown players.

Andre Onana (28), Altay Bayindir (26), Diogo Dalot (25), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (26, HG), Luke Shaw (28, HG), Lisandro Martinez (26), Victor Lindelof (29), Willy Kambwala (19), Casemiro (32), Kobbie Mainoo (19), Bruno Fernandes (29), Mason Mount (25, HG), Scott McTominay (27, HG), Alejandro Garnacho (19), Marcus Rashford (26, HG), Antony (24), Amad Diallo (21), Rasmus Hojlund (21)

With this in mind, we'd have 15 players above the age of 21 needing registering for next season in the Premier League, 10 of whom would be non-homegrown. We thus wouldn't have any major concerns around the Premier League's homegrown rules, with an allowance for up to 17 non-homegrown senior players in a squad.

The registration rules for UEFA competitions should also not prove too difficult, since there you are required to have eight homegrown players with four of them trained at the club's own academy for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21. Mainoo, McTominay, Garnacho and Rashford satisfy the second criteria already, and when you add in Mount, Shaw and Wan Bissaka you're only left needing one more homegrown player to satisfy the first as well. This could come from a new signing , or even from registering an academy player as the third choice keeper.

Additionally, I think the age profile of that squad also starts to look a bit better. You've got a good core of ten players in the peak ages of 24-28, with five further young talents under the age of 21 and three in Bruno, Lindelof and Casemiro bringing more experience to the table.

These sales decisions will, of course, form the basis for my second part post where I'll look into the potential signings that I think might enhance this squad in the summer.
A Fernandez has a 5 year contract, it expires next summer which is why a transfer fee would have been collected had he played 50% of Benfica’s Games at €7m, United could activate +1 on B Williams and Greenwood next month to protect their values and Eriksen has one year. Left on his contract, he had a 3 year so my guess is he will command more than DVB as a value possibly £7.5m and DVB lucky if we get £2.5m from Ajax. Plus it’s not as simple of what we sell in terms of value and what we buy, PSR/FFP does not work like that it’s more about combining their amortised transfer value and their yearly contract against your overall budget.

How any Fan can want Maguire sold this summer after how he’s shown up this season is beyond me, he’s more than suitable as 3rd/4th choice CB and Lindelof should go before him. He’s showed character and leader that is thread bare in this current squad?
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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"Martial...He's isolated Skrtel here..."
A Fernandez has a 5 year contract, it expires next summer which is why a transfer fee would have been collected had he played 50% of Benfica’s Games at €7m, United could activate +1 on B Williams and Greenwood next month to protect their values and Eriksen has one year. Left on his contract, he had a 3 year so my guess is he will command more than DVB as a value possibly £7.5m and DVB lucky if we get £2.5m from Ajax. Plus it’s not as simple of what we sell in terms of value and what we buy, PSR/FFP does not work like that it’s more about combining their amortised transfer value and their yearly contract against your overall budget.

How any Fan can want Maguire sold this summer after how he’s shown up this season is beyond me, he’s more than suitable as 3rd/4th choice CB and Lindelof should go before him. He’s showed character and leader that is thread bare in this current squad?
Pretty simple actually, hes far off the profile needed of any team that wants to defend high and wide up the pitch. Has nothing really to do with his play this year (he’s been good) but more so the fact that we need starters and backups that can all play within the same instructions instead of having to constantly compensate based on who is picked on the day.

And yes I’d ditch Lindelof as well. Which is why I’ve said we need 3 CB’s this summer
 

Offsideagain

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Martinez has missed 265 days due to injury at United. Is this because he's unlucky, the ferocity at which he plays or is he just not cut out for the PL. I'm not sure. A fit Martinez that can play 90-95% of the games would be the building block where we should start to rebuild. All great teams build from the back. That's why SJR has brought in Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada to sort out the best players available rather than EtH's favourites that have been indifferent. I know Ineos from the Chemical Industry and can guarantee they will get the best and get the best out of them. Rashford's recent behaviour will not have gone down well with Brailsford. When all these guys are in post, we will recruit well and sell the dross. Don't be surprised if a bonus scheme isn't introduced either. Paying players huge salaries whether they perform or just jog about will be ditched I think and if they don't like it, they can leave. Exciting times at last.
 

Woziak

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Pretty simple actually, hes far off the profile needed of any team that wants to defend high and wide up the pitch. Has nothing really to do with his play this year (he’s been good) but more so the fact that we need starters and backups that can all play within the same instructions instead of having to constantly compensate based on who is picked on the day.

And yes I’d ditch Lindelof as well. Which is why I’ve said we need 3 CB’s this summer
He’s the one CB you keep for one more season just because of his physicality and his aerial ability, bringing in elite Mature CB’s like Bastoni , Todibo or KMJ who are both getable are what’s needed, Tosin from Fulham even on a free is not an upgrade, Branthwaite hugely overrated especially for £75m and the others are unproven in PL, if we are buying unproven keep Harry for one more season and look to have 5 cB’s like Bastoni, L Martinez, J C Todibo, Harry Maguire and Willy Kambawla, I’d keep Evans for one more year if his body is up to it too.

Release Varane - £340k per week wages £18m saved on the budget which needs to be 80/85% of revenue, V Lindelof transfer has been paid so if we received £15m and removed his wages £5m per year that could free up £20m on the budget since we owe no fees in amortisation for the player.

Signing J C Todibo and Bastoni, both 24 and 25 are quick enough to defend wide areas, play in a 3 or a 4 and cost probably ;

J C Todibo (40m on a 5 Year is £8m plus £6m or 120k weekly wages) Total cost £14m

Bastoni (70m on a 5 year amor Is £14m plus £8m wages or £160k weekly wages) Total cost £22m

Those two will add £36m to budget annually for the next 5 years. We would be saving about £25m per year from dealing the other two, add Evans and that’s another £3m.

The following year we can go get O Diomende or Antonio Silva and get rid of Maguire and still get a small transfer fee as we extend his contract on lower wages, it’s clear he just wants to stay at the club and right now if your 2 or 3 nil up and you want a CB to shore up the defence and hold on to a league, he’s more than adequate.

We have far too much work to do this summer to get 3 CB’s in, we actually need to get rid of 12 or 13 players and bring in 8 or 9, it’s no longer 5 or 6!

We need ;
2 * Centre Backs
Right Back
Left Back
Defensive Midfielder
Centre Midfieler
Right winger
Centre Forward


We might need a 3rd midfielder as well or a left winger if we sell Marcus this summer.
 

Krakenzero

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I'm going to try to split my response to this into two parts - the sales and the buys. I'm going to start with the sales, and the way I intend to structure this part of it is to go through each member of the squad on a position-by-position basis listing whether I would keep or sell the player. I will offer a rough estimation of how much I expect we might be able to get for each player I think we should sell (and I intend to be very cautious here), and I'll give a brief explanation at each positional juncture explaining my choices where I feel it's necessary.

Goalkeeper: Andre Onana (keep), Altay Bayindir (keep), Tom Heaton (sell, free agent). Not sure too much explaining needs to be done here. Onana has cemented himself as a solid starter this season after a rocky start. Bayindir should also stay provided he's happy, whilst Heaton is probably gone this summer with his contract expiring.

Full Back: Diogo Dalot (keep), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (keep), Luke Shaw (keep), Tyrell Malacia (sell, 5m), Brandon Williams (sell, free agent), Alvaro Fernandez (sell, free agent). The two big decisions here were Wan Bissaka and Malacia. I like AWB but don't see him as comfortable enough with the ball in the long-run, but I've decided to keep him simply because I think we need to strengthen too many other areas this summer to leave ourselves also needing a right back. Malacia is an unfortunate case. I think there's a capable player in him but, with Shaw as injury prone as he is, I don't think we can risk Malacia being his only back-up given his long-term injury this season so I'd probably look to sell him for whatever money we can get this summer.

Centre Back: Lisandro Martinez (keep), Raphael Varane (sell, free agent), Harry Maguire (sell, 15m), Victor Lindelof (keep), Jonny Evans (sell, free agent), Willy Kambwala (keep). This is probably one of our biggest needs this summer. Huge injury problems at centre back have, in my view, been one of our biggest issues this season so a revamp is needed here. Varane is an easy decision for me - his contract expires and I don't think we should be looking to give him a new one. Evans is also an easy choice - he's been commendable this season given that he's played far more than we could've expected but again, with his contract out this summer we should be letting him go. The big decision for me was between Maguire and Lindelof - some will want to see both gone but realistically I think we'll need to hang on to one of them or else we'll simply be looking to do too much this summer. I've opted to sell Maguire and stick with Lindelof. Whilst I actually think the former is a better player, his wages are also a lot higher and Lindelof offers the additional benefit of being able to fill in at full-back when necessary.

Midfield: Casemiro (keep), Kobbie Mainoo (keep), Bruno Fernandes (keep), Mason Mount (keep), Sofyan Amrabat (sell, loan expires), Christian Eriksen (sell, free), Scott McTominay (keep), Donny van de Beek (sell, 5m), Hannibal Mejbri (sell, 10m). I think the big controversy here will be the decision to keep Casemiro. This is, to be clear, also one that I am very undecided on. The reason I've opted to keep him is because for starters I think he'll be extremely difficult to sell, and also because if we do get rid of him then we are going to need two signings in defensive midfield this summer when we're already going to need a minimum of six players. Finally, with a lot of the players I'm deciding to let go being experienced leaders, I do think that having Casemiro around to bring those qualities could yet be of some value to us. I think the only other possibly controversial one here is keeping hold of McTominay - I've decided to do that because I think he's a solid squad option and, again, I think I have to be realistic as to how much we can hope for in terms of incomings this summer.

Wingers: Alejandro Garnacho (keep), Marcus Rashford (keep), Jadon Sancho (sell, 30m), Antony (keep), Amad Diallo (keep), Facundo Pellistri (sell, 10m), Shola Shoretire (sell, free agent). A less controversial round here I think, with most of the decisions being fairly self-explanatory. I am somewhat torn on Rashford but, in the end, I think again with so much work needed in other areas we don't want to be looking to replace him too. I think having Garnacho, Rashford, Antony and Amad as your four main wide options, with Mount capable of playing there too and perhaps a few academy players being brought into the fold, leaves us in an OK position here for now.

Strikers: Rasmus Hojlund (keep), Anthony Martial (sell, free agent), Mason Greenwood (sell, 30m). Honestly don't have much to add here. I think all three of these are fairly self-explanatory.

So to summarise then, here are all of my sales listed in order of my estimated price tag: Jadon Sancho (30m), Mason Greenwood (30m), Harry Maguire (15m), Hannibal Mejbri (10m), Facundo Pellistri (10m), Donny van de Beek (5m), Tyrell Malacia (5m), Christian Eriksen (free), Tom Heaton (free agent), Brandon Williams (free agent), Alvaro Fernandez (free agent), Raphael Varane (free agent), Jonny Evans (free agent), Anthony Martial (free agent), Sofyan Amrabat (loan expires)

In other words, you'd be seeing 15 of the senior squad leaving with around 105 million made in transfer fees. This is a lot of outgoings for one summer, but it looks somewhat more attainable when you consider that seven of the players on the list will be going this summer anyway provided that they are not offered a new deal. The bigger bonus from these sales, though, is that it'd shave around 87 million off of our annual wage bill, which is a pretty sizeable chunk of the current total which stands at 180 million. (Source: sportrac)

Finally, then, let's look at the remaining senior squad with these sales in mind. For now, I'll not be including academy players outside of the ones who have already played significant minutes this season. I'll be listing players' ages in brackets, alongside the letters HG to denote any senior (i.e. aged 21 or over) homegrown players.

Andre Onana (28), Altay Bayindir (26), Diogo Dalot (25), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (26, HG), Luke Shaw (28, HG), Lisandro Martinez (26), Victor Lindelof (29), Willy Kambwala (19), Casemiro (32), Kobbie Mainoo (19), Bruno Fernandes (29), Mason Mount (25, HG), Scott McTominay (27, HG), Alejandro Garnacho (19), Marcus Rashford (26, HG), Antony (24), Amad Diallo (21), Rasmus Hojlund (21)

With this in mind, we'd have 15 players above the age of 21 needing registering for next season in the Premier League, 10 of whom would be non-homegrown. We thus wouldn't have any major concerns around the Premier League's homegrown rules, with an allowance for up to 17 non-homegrown senior players in a squad.

The registration rules for UEFA competitions should also not prove too difficult, since there you are required to have eight homegrown players with four of them trained at the club's own academy for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21. Mainoo, McTominay, Garnacho and Rashford satisfy the second criteria already, and when you add in Mount, Shaw and Wan Bissaka you're only left needing one more homegrown player to satisfy the first as well. This could come from a new signing , or even from registering an academy player as the third choice keeper.

Additionally, I think the age profile of that squad also starts to look a bit better. You've got a good core of ten players in the peak ages of 24-28, with five further young talents under the age of 21 and three in Bruno, Lindelof and Casemiro bringing more experience to the table.

These sales decisions will, of course, form the basis for my second part post where I'll look into the potential signings that I think might enhance this squad in the summer.
Sorry, I know you took a lot of time to make this in depth analysis and I don't mean to be reductive but, doesn't this esentially mean keeping the same main squad of this season bar Maguire?

Surely some of the players that aren't performing now could go on loan and make some space in the squad and/or in the salary sheet?
 

Woziak

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Sorry, I know you took a lot of time to make this in depth analysis and I don't mean to be reductive but, doesn't this esentially mean keeping the same main squad of this season bar Maguire?

Surely some of the players that aren't performing now could go on loan and make some space in the squad and/or in the salary sheet?
Exactly Casemiro, AWB, Lindelof, Antony, Scott Mctominay and Rashford all need to be moved on, if we have to keep one then Scott is the player we keep. But the rest have to go and Rashford had enough chances ?
 

Mmm-Qatarian

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A Fernandez has a 5 year contract, it expires next summer which is why a transfer fee would have been collected had he played 50% of Benfica’s Games at €7m, United could activate +1 on B Williams and Greenwood next month to protect their values and Eriksen has one year. Left on his contract, he had a 3 year so my guess is he will command more than DVB as a value possibly £7.5m and DVB lucky if we get £2.5m from Ajax. Plus it’s not as simple of what we sell in terms of value and what we buy, PSR/FFP does not work like that it’s more about combining their amortised transfer value and their yearly contract against your overall budget.

How any Fan can want Maguire sold this summer after how he’s shown up this season is beyond me, he’s more than suitable as 3rd/4th choice CB and Lindelof should go before him. He’s showed character and leader that is thread bare in this current squad?
Will address each point in turn:
  • Fair about Alvaro Fernandez. I wasn't aware of that.
  • I wouldn't bother taking the risk on Brandon Williams because I'm not sure how highly sought after he will be anyway. I'd just let him go now. Greenwood I'd also be looking to sell, as I mentioned in the post. If extending his contract inflates the amount we get for him this summer, then we should do it. I wasn't really looking to get that in-depth to be honest. I did specify that I'd generally be cautious with the fees I think we'll get for each player, and I think 30 million for Greenwood is a reasonably fair cautious estimate.
  • I'm uncertain on the precise figures either Eriksen or Van de Beek would command but we really are splitting hairs here - it's probably at most around a 2 or 3 million pound difference to the total either way.
  • I didn't mention anything about our budget for next season, so I don't know why you brough this up? I know that you don't just make 105 million on player sales and literally all of that just gets to be added to your transfer budget. I'm not smart enough to know the ins and outs of how it works, so in my next post on the list of players I'd buy I'll just be going with a rough figure that I think might be reasonable.
  • To be clear, I'm not massively opposed to Maguire staying. If the club opt to sell Lindelof and keep Maguire, that wouldn't rile me up. I just think you have to keep one and I decided on Lindelof primarily because he can also fill in at full back, and I think given the massive amounts of injuries we suffer that flexibility can be quite important. I can see arguments as to why you'd want to keep Maguire instead, though.
 

Mmm-Qatarian

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Sorry, I know you took a lot of time to make this in depth analysis and I don't mean to be reductive but, doesn't this esentially mean keeping the same main squad of this season bar Maguire?

Surely some of the players that aren't performing now could go on loan and make some space in the squad and/or in the salary sheet?
Not at all really. As I mentioned, you're taking out a huge chunk of the wage bill with the sales I've put forward in that post.

Given how crap we've been this summer, I know it's tempting for people to say we should just sell everyone and sign around ten new faces to replace them, but reality has shown that this seldom comes to fruition and is often not particularly wise anyway. I'm trying to be realistic with what is achievable and sensible, meaning I'm looking primarily to clear out the deadwood this summer in terms of players who are earning lots of money and not playing very many games for it. Maguire was the only real difficult choice in terms of the players I've decided to sell - I can definitely see arguments for why it should be Lindelof instead.
 

Mmm-Qatarian

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Pretty simple actually, hes far off the profile needed of any team that wants to defend high and wide up the pitch. Has nothing really to do with his play this year (he’s been good) but more so the fact that we need starters and backups that can all play within the same instructions instead of having to constantly compensate based on who is picked on the day.

And yes I’d ditch Lindelof as well. Which is why I’ve said we need 3 CB’s this summer
Honestly, much as it pains me to say it this is the conclusion I've come to. Not so much really that he's "far" off the profile, but that he's too far off of it given his wages. The fact that Lindelof is on quite a bit less money is another factor in my decision to keep him rather than Maguire around. I just don't think it's feasible to be needing three centre backs this summer when we have so many other areas that need improvement.

I say all of this, by the way, as someone who really likes Maguire and has defended him constantly from criticism I've felt was unfair. He's not one of the players I desperately want to see go but I just think that this summer is probably the right time to move him on and look to bring in a younger second-choice option to Licha on lower wages who is slightly more suited to the playing style we ultimately want to achieve.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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"Martial...He's isolated Skrtel here..."
Honestly, much as it pains me to say it this is the conclusion I've come to. Not so much really that he's "far" off the profile, but that he's too far off of it given his wages. The fact that Lindelof is on quite a bit less money is another factor in my decision to keep him rather than Maguire around. I just don't think it's feasible to be needing three centre backs this summer when we have so many other areas that need improvement.

I say all of this, by the way, as someone who really likes Maguire and has defended him constantly from criticism I've felt was unfair. He's not one of the players I desperately want to see go but I just think that this summer is probably the right time to move him on and look to bring in a younger second-choice option to Licha on lower wages who is slightly more suited to the playing style we ultimately want to achieve.
I mean the main areas that need to be improved are the spine of the team. We lack any sort of athleticism or PnP through the center of the pitch, so bringing in Tosin on a free + 2 top young CB prospects would instantly change the entire dynamic of that unit for around 100m. We can't rely on Martinez at this point because there's no telling whether these injuries will keep reoccurring or if he'll still be the same player when fully fit (he also probably needs to be upgraded on anyways if we want to play a high line as he doesn't defend wide spaces well compared to other top CB's).
 

Mmm-Qatarian

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I mean the main areas that need to be improved are the spine of the team. We lack any sort of athleticism or PnP through the center of the pitch, so bringing in Tosin on a free + 2 top young CB prospects would instantly change the entire dynamic of that unit for around 100m. We can't rely on Martinez at this point because there's no telling whether these injuries will keep reoccurring or if he'll still be the same player when fully fit (he also probably needs to be upgraded on anyways if we want to play a high line as he doesn't defend wide spaces well compared to other top CB's).
See, I'm just really not sold on Tosin.

I get that he's a free agent but I think you're probably downgrading on Lindelof or Maguire with him. I understand that fan sentiment is not the be all and end all but Fulham fans really don't seem too concerned about the prospect of losing him.

Put it this way, in the scenario you're describing you're going into the season with your centre back options being Licha (who we've both agreed can't be relied on for the whole season), Tosin, and two prospects. I just don't see that as being strong enough. I'd sooner stick with one of Lindelof or Maguire (who, whilst not perfect, have both proven themselves capable stand-ins at centre half), invest in a fairly young first team option and perhaps a prospect as Licha's rotation/back-up.
 

Woziak

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Will address each point in turn:
  • Fair about Alvaro Fernandez. I wasn't aware of that.
  • I wouldn't bother taking the risk on Brandon Williams because I'm not sure how highly sought after he will be anyway. I'd just let him go now. Greenwood I'd also be looking to sell, as I mentioned in the post. If extending his contract inflates the amount we get for him this summer, then we should do it. I wasn't really looking to get that in-depth to be honest. I did specify that I'd generally be cautious with the fees I think we'll get for each player, and I think 30 million for Greenwood is a reasonably fair cautious estimate.
  • I'm uncertain on the precise figures either Eriksen or Van de Beek would command but we really are splitting hairs here - it's probably at most around a 2 or 3 million pound difference to the total either way.
  • I didn't mention anything about our budget for next season, so I don't know why you brough this up? I know that you don't just make 105 million on player sales and literally all of that just gets to be added to your transfer budget. I'm not smart enough to know the ins and outs of how it works, so in my next post on the list of players I'd buy I'll just be going with a rough figure that I think might be reasonable.
  • To be clear, I'm not massively opposed to Maguire staying. If the club opt to sell Lindelof and keep Maguire, that wouldn't rile me up. I just think you have to keep one and I decided on Lindelof primarily because he can also fill in at full back, and I think given the massive amounts of injuries we suffer that flexibility can be quite important. I can see arguments as to why you'd want to keep Maguire instead, though.
Ok I understand what your trying to do and just so you and others understand, the 80% FSP Rule from UEFA on wages/Transfer amortised fees/ Agent fees against revenue will only apply if we qualify for Europe this season, if we do not which is 8th place or lower and a defeat in the FA Cup Final the rumoured changes to the PL is that they will adopt a similar FFP policy going forward but 85% will be allowed for teams that do not qualify for Europe.

Contrary to the popular belief that United can’t spend much money this summer without a huge player exodus, they actually can, because of the Following ;

1. The revenue for last year was £648m and projected to be higher this season due to CL football and another run to the Fa Cup Final. Rumours are £675m is expected, under UEFA rule which I’ll assume United qualify for European Conference League, 80% would be an allowance of £540m for the club to spend on their accounts which must be shown to UEFA at the end of 2024/25 season.

2. The £540m must include annual wages and bonus for all the players, staff, coaches, etc, it must also include any manager settlements, Payments made to recruit a new coach or DOF, existing Amortised Transfer fees which are owed by year and One off Agent Fees.

3. There have been multiple lists recently of Deloitte’s wages for top clubs and agent fees paid last year. I’ve included last years so we can try and find a base for the club.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/12/chelsea-spend-premier-league-record-75m-on-agents

So if the club was to operate this summer in a similar way to last year, wages would be £305m, Agent Fees, £34m, Amortised existing transfers (Club currently owes £318m) or about £96m per year, now add ETH and Coach Fees to be sacked £15m and potentially £10m for Dan Ashworth and Jason Wilcox. That’s a total of £460m/£470m

4. The club would therefore have approximately £80m free this summer for new players and wages if no player was sold, released or sent back to their club. This is why academy players are so crucial, they have no cost to offset on the books so they represent 100% net Profit.

5. You rightly mentioned certain players will simply be released or not have their contract renewed, R Varanne(340k),
S Amrabat(90k), A Martial(250k,
B Williams(60k), S Shoretire(15k),
J Evans(60k), T Heaton(25k)

Those seven players alone without commanding any transfer fees would reduce the wages by £840k per week or £43m per year. The club now would have £123m Transfer budget for player purchases and Salaries.

6. Assuming Jason Wilcox can see what we can, with a huge caveat that Jadon Sancho played under him and I doubt if ETH is off He’ll be sold or loaned out, let’s look at obvious transfers out, in other words transfers that can be made easily because player wages are not a concerns for the buying team; Mason Greenwood (25m/75k), C Eriksen(5m/180k), Casemiro(25m/350k),
V Lindelof(12.5m/120k),
F Pellistri(7.5m/25k), DVB(5m/120k).


If we manage to sell all of those this summer that will be an incredible start. Remember that amortised transfer debt includes payments that still need to be made on Casemiro(3*12m), DVB(1*8m) so the money we receive for those two won’t even pay off the amortised debt, The other transfers however all offer profit, Lindelof Transfer fee has been paid, Eriksen never had one and Pellistri and Greenwood offer huge profit. The club would save another £840k per week wages so add another £43m to the transfer budget plus £30m net profit from academy players and you have a final budget of £190-200m for transfer fees and new player wages

7. Summary, the £190-200m is not the club transfer budget but more likely £350-400m as all new transfer and salary fees will be spread over the length of the contract given to new Players.
I saw a brief today in online article That. United are looking to buy Bastoni, FDJ and Jamal Musiala, for £253m, the actual Cost would be ;
Bastoni £70m on. 5 year Contract at £200k per week would Cost (£14m+11m)=£25m.
FDJ £80m on. 5 year contract at £400k per week would Cost
(£16m+20m)=£36m
J Musiala. £100m on 5 year contract at
£400k B per week would cost
(£20m+20m)=£40m


Of course this is never happening but United providing they sell and release the. Players mentioned, could sign all three. Plus another 3 or 4. Elite players for. £40/50m and Still pass. PSR.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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See, I'm just really not sold on Tosin.

I get that he's a free agent but I think you're probably downgrading on Lindelof or Maguire with him. I understand that fan sentiment is not the be all and end all but Fulham fans really don't seem too concerned about the prospect of losing him.

Put it this way, in the scenario you're describing you're going into the season with your centre back options being Licha (who we've both agreed can't be relied on for the whole season), Tosin, and two prospects. I just don't see that as being strong enough. I'd sooner stick with one of Lindelof or Maguire (who, whilst not perfect, have both proven themselves capable stand-ins at centre half), invest in a fairly young first team option and perhaps a prospect as Licha's rotation/back-up.
Note when I say prospects I’m not talking about Academy players. I’m talking about experienced 1st teamers that are young. And again it’s pointless keeping Maguire and Lindelof if the situation arises where they have to start means you have to adjust the entire defensive gameplan. Neither one can defend wide space, you’d be stuck having to revert to a deep line again. No thank you.

And Tosin as 4th choice with the ability to possibly improve while having the physical tools we need is fine.
 

Woziak

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Note when I say prospects I’m not talking about Academy players. I’m talking about experienced 1st teamers that are young. And again it’s pointless keeping Maguire and Lindelof if the situation arises where they have to start means you have to adjust the entire defensive gameplan. Neither one can defend wide space, you’d be stuck having to revert to a deep line again. No thank you.

And Tosin as 4th choice with the ability to possibly improve while having the physical tools we need is fine.
Question is Maguire as bad as fans really think, he can play in a 3 as a sweeper with the other two CB’s defending the wide areas he can defend aggressively on the ground and in the air, he’s not going to be around for more than 2 years, Maximum one, we have so much to do, I can barely see us buying 2 CB’s let alone three and Tosin has practically signed for spurs, we are far too slow with free transfers and SJR getting Wilcox in so quickly was to try and combat this. Now Jason Wilcox was Tosin Adarabiyou Youth Coach, so he knows him, Frimpong, Sancho and many others.

Let’s assume the obvious and he’s already been in contact with some of these players, Wilcox will be well aware that he has to remove, sell, release players to free up room on the Books for wages and transfers.

Harry Maguire signed a 6+1 year contract at the time and the £80m transfer fee was amortised over 6 years which was allowed at the time. He has 1 more year left plus 1 if we wish to activate left. The club are committed to paying his remaining fee next year, the last instalment which is £13.5m plus his wages of £9.875m so a total of £23.375m, no one is going to pay his £189k per week wages so we need to keep him for one more year, extend, then we can offer an Italian team a £15-20m cut price deal next year when he’s 32 and the Italians with their tax benefits will be match his wages, plus he is used as good egg in the dressing room even when he’s not playing.

For the Record, no player is really free, their signing on fees are normally ridiculous and paid in the same way their wages are now. So for example If we signed Tosin, Rabiot and Ross Barkley all on free transfers this is how the real cost would look on the accounts.

Tosin Adarabiyou - wages agreed 80k on a 5 year contract, Market Value £30m, Agent agrees £15m signing on fee £12m to Player, £3m to Agent. Club has to pay Tosin signing on fee normally upfront, sometimes amortised but agents always up front.
Lets assume we amortise the player, we pay first instalment this summer of £2.4m and agent £3m - £5.4m of actual
Cash paid out this summer against maybe £9m if we bought for £30m.
The ongoing cost would then be (£2.4m signing on fee plus £4m wages so £6.4m per year or £123k per week for a 4th choice CB)

Ross Barkley - This one makes huge sense, he’s on 30k per week, super fit playing the best he has in ages and would be a huge upgrade on Eriksen for a fraction of the cost. We offer him £70k per week and his value is £15m so half of that is £7.5m plus £1.5m Agent means over 2 years which is all you would give him. The club would pay 1 year and agent fee upfront of £5.25m and his cost on the books would be (£1.875m signing on, £3.5m salary so £5.375m per year total)

Adrien Rabiot - This one is expensive his value is £40/50m he would want £20m signing on fee and probably half up front plus £200k per week wages on a 4 year contract. We pay him and the Agent £15m upfront and then his (Signing on fee is £2.5m over 4 years plus £10m per year wages making a total of £12.5m and a total financial commitment of £65m
Free signings are never really free they just lose the headline of transfer value.

Christian Eriksen has cost United already £25m in signing on, Agent Fee and wages, was he worth it ?

It’s important to note the club really could spend huge this summer but the real block is actual cash, SJR only paid off £120m of the credit card to make this value available to meet amortised existing debt and offer something like £150m in real terms, if we sell well we could have £200-250m, if Sir Jim decides to invest more for a greater share of the club like another £100m then we could spend £400m without sanctions providing we sell £50m of academy players.
 
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Borussia Teeth

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Question is Maguire as bad as fans really think, he can play in a 3 as a sweeper with the other two CB’s defending the wide areas he can defend aggressively on the ground and in the air, he’s not going to be around for more than 2 years, Maximum one, we have so much to do, I can barely see us buying 2 CB’s let alone three and Tosin has practically signed for spurs, we are far too slow with free transfers and SJR getting Wilcox in so quickly was to try and combat this. Now Jason Wilcox was Tosin Adarabiyou Youth Coach, so he knows him, Frimpong, Sancho and many others.

Let’s assume the obvious and he’s already been in contact with some of these players, Wilcox will be well aware that he has to remove, sell, release players to free up room on the Books for wages and transfers.

Harry Maguire signed a 6+1 year contract at the time and the £80m transfer fee was amortised over 6 years which was allowed at the time. He has 1 more year left plus 1 if we wish to activate left. The club are committed to paying his remaining fee next year, the last instalment which is £13.5m plus his wages of £9.875m so a total of £23.375m, no one is going to pay his £189k per week wages so we need to keep him for one more year, extend, then we can offer an Italian team a £15-20m cut price deal next year when he’s 32 and the Italians with their tax benefits will be match his wages, plus he is used as good egg in the dressing room even when he’s not playing.

For the Record, no player is really free, their signing on fees are normally ridiculous and paid in the same way their wages are now. So for example If we signed Tosin, Rabiot and Ross Barkley all on free transfers this is how the real cost would look on the accounts.

Tosin Adarabiyou - wages agreed 80k on a 5 year contract, Market Value £30m, Agent agrees £15m signing on fee £12m to Player, £3m to Agent. Club has to pay Tosin signing on fee normally upfront, sometimes amortised but agents always up front.
Lets assume we amortise the player, we pay first instalment this summer of £2.4m and agent £3m - £5.4m of actual
Cash paid out this summer against maybe £9m if we bought for £30m.
The ongoing cost would then be (£2.4m signing on fee plus £4m wages so £6.4m per year or £123k per week for a 4th choice CB)

Ross Barkley - This one makes huge sense, he’s on 30k per week, super fit playing the best he has in ages and would be a huge upgrade on Eriksen for a fraction of the cost. We offer him £70k per week and his value is £15m so half of that is £7.5m plus £1.5m Agent means over 2 years which is all you would give him. The club would pay 1 year and agent fee upfront of £5.25m and his cost on the books would be (£1.875m signing on, £3.5m salary so £5.375m per year total)

Adrien Rabiot - This one is expensive his value is £40/50m he would want £20m signing on fee and probably half up front plus £200k per week wages on a 4 year contract. We pay him and the Agent £15m upfront and then his (Signing on fee is £2.5m over 4 years plus £10m per year wages making a total of £12.5m and a total financial commitment of £65m
Free signings are never really free they just lose the headline of transfer value.

Christian Eriksen has cost United already £25m in signing on, Agent Fee and wages, was he worth it ?

It’s important to note the club really could spend huge this summer but the real block is actual cash, SJR only paid off £120m of the credit card to make this value available to meet amortised existing debt and offer something like £150m in real terms, if we sell well we could have £200-250m, if Sir Jim decides to invest more for a greater share of the club like another £100m then we could spend £400m without sanctions providing we sell £50m of academy players.
No Italian teams will pay 20m+ for a 32 year old Maguire, nor will Maguire sign a new deal just to be sold. You need to stop playing championship manager
 

daveskimufc

Full Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
1,050
I wouldn't keep many. We need a big summer 5+ in, 5+ out

Gk. Onana/bayandir
Rb dalot/NEW
RCB NEW/Maguire
LCB Martinez/NEW
LB Shaw/Malacia
Dcm. NEW/NEW
Cm mainoo/mctominay
Acm. Fernandes/mount
Lw. Garnacho / NEW
Rw amad/ NEW
St hojlund/NEW

Get rid
Lindelof £15M
AWB £20M
Casemiro £20M
Eriksen £5M
Martial FREE
Antony £25M
Rashford £30M
Varane FREE
 

userman

New Member
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Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
301
Question is Maguire as bad as fans really think, he can play in a 3 as a sweeper with the other two CB’s defending the wide areas he can defend aggressively on the ground and in the air, he’s not going to be around for more than 2 years, Maximum one, we have so much to do, I can barely see us buying 2 CB’s let alone three and Tosin has practically signed for spurs, we are far too slow with free transfers and SJR getting Wilcox in so quickly was to try and combat this. Now Jason Wilcox was Tosin Adarabiyou Youth Coach, so he knows him, Frimpong, Sancho and many others.

Let’s assume the obvious and he’s already been in contact with some of these players, Wilcox will be well aware that he has to remove, sell, release players to free up room on the Books for wages and transfers.

Harry Maguire signed a 6+1 year contract at the time and the £80m transfer fee was amortised over 6 years which was allowed at the time. He has 1 more year left plus 1 if we wish to activate left. The club are committed to paying his remaining fee next year, the last instalment which is £13.5m plus his wages of £9.875m so a total of £23.375m, no one is going to pay his £189k per week wages so we need to keep him for one more year, extend, then we can offer an Italian team a £15-20m cut price deal next year when he’s 32 and the Italians with their tax benefits will be match his wages, plus he is used as good egg in the dressing room even when he’s not playing.

For the Record, no player is really free, their signing on fees are normally ridiculous and paid in the same way their wages are now. So for example If we signed Tosin, Rabiot and Ross Barkley all on free transfers this is how the real cost would look on the accounts.

Tosin Adarabiyou - wages agreed 80k on a 5 year contract, Market Value £30m, Agent agrees £15m signing on fee £12m to Player, £3m to Agent. Club has to pay Tosin signing on fee normally upfront, sometimes amortised but agents always up front.
Lets assume we amortise the player, we pay first instalment this summer of £2.4m and agent £3m - £5.4m of actual
Cash paid out this summer against maybe £9m if we bought for £30m.
The ongoing cost would then be (£2.4m signing on fee plus £4m wages so £6.4m per year or £123k per week for a 4th choice CB)

Ross Barkley - This one makes huge sense, he’s on 30k per week, super fit playing the best he has in ages and would be a huge upgrade on Eriksen for a fraction of the cost. We offer him £70k per week and his value is £15m so half of that is £7.5m plus £1.5m Agent means over 2 years which is all you would give him. The club would pay 1 year and agent fee upfront of £5.25m and his cost on the books would be (£1.875m signing on, £3.5m salary so £5.375m per year total)

Adrien Rabiot - This one is expensive his value is £40/50m he would want £20m signing on fee and probably half up front plus £200k per week wages on a 4 year contract. We pay him and the Agent £15m upfront and then his (Signing on fee is £2.5m over 4 years plus £10m per year wages making a total of £12.5m and a total financial commitment of £65m
Free signings are never really free they just lose the headline of transfer value.

Christian Eriksen has cost United already £25m in signing on, Agent Fee and wages, was he worth it ?

It’s important to note the club really could spend huge this summer but the real block is actual cash, SJR only paid off £120m of the credit card to make this value available to meet amortised existing debt and offer something like £150m in real terms, if we sell well we could have £200-250m, if Sir Jim decides to invest more for a greater share of the club like another £100m then we could spend £400m without sanctions providing we sell £50m of academy players.
I get your overall point that there's basically no such thing as "free" transfers, and I do appreciate reading your posts. One friendly input though, as I've noticed it in many of your posts, you seem to mix up Amortization and actual cash-flow: Amortization is a non-cash expense, and refers to the balance sheet (depletion of intangible assets). Negotiated payment-structures/installments of a deal(a player purchase) aren't linearly symmetrical with the amortization (depletion of that players book value), in fact they can deviate completely from each other.
 

Woziak

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,776
I get your overall point that there's basically no such thing as "free" transfers, and I do appreciate reading your posts. One friendly input though, as I've noticed it in many of your posts, you seem to mix up Amortization and actual cash-flow: Amortization is a non-cash expense, and refers to the balance sheet (depletion of intangible assets). Negotiated payment-structures/installments of a deal(a player purchase) aren't linearly symmetrical with the amortization (depletion of that players book value), in fact they can deviate completely from each other.
Yep your right, I should be clearer on this but our basic cash position at The club is non existent, the club was on life support until Sir Jim used his cash injection to purchase more shares in the Club. The revolving credit card payment which was paid with this is injection is simply trying to appease the banks with INEOS acting as a blue chip covenant to give United some financial credibility this summer.

I agree on the this and 6 to 7 years ago when we actually had cash reserves, the club was able to buy players in either one or two instalment’s. The point I’m trying to make to a lot of CAF fans, it’s not as simple as we sell 10 players for £150m and then use £100m set aside to spend £250m on all transfers, FSP/PSR are huge issues but more importantly paying an Agent, as most are paid in one instalment on agreement of players transfers and rarely have very little to do with amortization, but can sometimes and normally would have to be shown as a separate line in the accounts normally as a one of expense payment for that financial years records.
 

Overhaul FC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 19, 2023
Messages
259
Hojlund
Garnacho Fernandes Greenwood
Y. Fofana/A Onana Mainoo
New LB Martinez New CB Dalot
Onana

I believe we should be 3 top signings away from a very good starting 11 when everyone is fit.

I think the new hierarchy should identify and give Ten Hag a new LB, CB to partner Martinez and a CDM/CM to play with Mainoo.

Greenwood has to come back for next season and save us buying another random winger that would fail.

We then would need around 3 squad level players as backups to Hojlund, Mainoo and at CB. These could either be young players or personally I'd go with players with more experience as no doubt we'll be losing some senior players over the summer like Casemiro, Eriksen, Maguire or Lindelof and Amrabat.
 

Insanity

Most apt username 2015
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
4,477
Location
Location
Hope to see a big churn. I think we need to bring in at least 6 players in the next transfer window. The must positions to strengthen for me:

- A top quality striker. I hope it's Isak.
- A quality winger with pace and dribbling ability who can play on either side.
- Two good CB's.
- A top quality left back
- A top quality CM

I would like an established striker and young players with huge upside potential for the rest of the positions.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,457
Starting to think with the sheer number of holes in the squad we have to go 3 at the back next year in terms of results, unless we can sign at least 4 quality first choice players which is probably not unprecedented, but pretty damn rare.

Though I'm also fine with 4 at the back if it's part of a proper rebuild around young players, even if we look like Chelsea.

But 3 at the back you can at least maybe see working in a way I just can't get there with 3 major signings and a couple younger/cheaper players doing a job backing up Hojlund, the new DM and Dalot.

----------------------------Garnacho/Amad---------------Hojlund/ST-----------------------
LWB/Shaw-----Mainoo/Mount----DM/DM2-----Bruno/Mount-------Dalot/RWB
----------Lisandro/Shaw--------Maguire/Evans-------RCB/Kambwalla-------------------
--------------------------------------------------Onana--------------------------------------------------

as basically the core of the squad, withe bolded as first choice. It's the only way you can see a functioning starting XI with just 3 signings I think.

It doesn't really change things squad-wise other than moving on from Antony and Rashford but you still have 2 wide players around in Garnacho and Amad and Mount is probably best used as both a 4th winger (to have an option to tuck inside) and backup to Bruno anyways, particularly if we buy a proper rampaging LWB who can play 4 at the back if/when we do switch back.

Just looks more balanced than say:


------------------Garnacho/LW------Hojlund/ST-------Antony/Amad---------
---------------------Mainoo/Mount----DM/DM2-----Bruno/Mount-----
--------LB/Shaw--------Lisandro/Shaw-------RCB/Maguire-------Dalot/RB------------
--------------------------------------------------Onana--------------------------------------------------

which I think would require a prime Thuram and Makelele just to be decent defensively.
 

Danish Wizard

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
1,405
It all depends on how the club wants us to play, and who they want to be the manager.
It's also not realistic to sell 10+ players and bring in 7-8 new players in one window. Yes, that is necessary to get us competing again. But this will take a couple of years.