Winks clearly went for a pass and not a shot on goal so not even half a chance to be honest. Spurs didn't even have a shot on goal in the first half. The second half was a different story. All those on goal shots that De Gea easily saved were half chances, the difficuly shots/headers he saved were big chances.
What happens when we come up against decent opposition? | Errr
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
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Is there an authoritative website that breaks down the stats by half? A Spurs fan offline is trying to get me to believe Spurs were equal United in the first half. My eyes did not see that, but I’d like to see what the stats say.
I rewatched the first half yesterday. After all the euphoria calm down. To be fair i though both teams are equal. Spurs build up is slower than ours. Ours is quicker and many long pass upfront. We didnt bossed the midfield, but spurs are clearly having difficulty getting the ball forward.
Whether we won or lost yesterday, the performance in itself was a huge positive.
Rarely in recent times have we gone away and taken the game to a league rival, and we definitely rocked spurs early.
Fair play to them though they’ve got character and determination in that team. Could have been very different.
We need to learn to keep the ball better when under pressure as a few times we won it back, then just hoofed it. Lingard / young especially were poor in that sense.
Rarely in recent times have we gone away and taken the game to a league rival, and we definitely rocked spurs early.
Fair play to them though they’ve got character and determination in that team. Could have been very different.
We need to learn to keep the ball better when under pressure as a few times we won it back, then just hoofed it. Lingard / young especially were poor in that sense.
He was one on one with the goalkeeper without realising and went to pass, course it’s a huge chance.
We were better the first half, not by a lot but still better. Spurs were top 5-10 minutes in the second the United were about on par until about the 63rd after Pogba's second got saved. After that it was all Spurs.
No, he passed it. Whether he realised it or not doesn't matter and doesn't make it a chance, not even a huge chance. Had he gone for goal and De Gea saved, then sure. He didn't.
So going through on goal isn’t a chance now? He had a chance to score feck sake.
How did he have a chance to score when he didn't even try to score? It wasn't like he missed kicked it and it went through, he clearly passed it hoping someone would get to the end of it, how is that a chance? Had someone actually got a touch, then that would have been a chance. So no, it wasn't a chance.
That's not correct. Did you miss stat that we had most fast breaks in one game than 17 under Jose? We carried a counter attacking threat and there was clear game plan to hit spurs in the space between CB and FB. I didn't see long balls or hoofing at all just DDG messing a few times with distribution.
Well, Poch didn't have much Plan B when Erikson didn't show up. So I say Ole was about as good as Poch. Pep never had a Plan B neither, his Plan A worked most of the time but when it doesn't, it doesn't. It was the same at Barca but perhaps BM was slightly better. Klopp had introduced Shakari as Plan B and seemed to bring in some variation in his game plan.
Yes for the 1st half but no for the 2nd. Our 1st half clearly dominated the MF and every counter attack from that point was dangerous, while Spur hardly created any real chance. But in 2nd half it was more like Mourinho's game, sit back and absorb the attack, with Spurs all over us.
What you seem to be missing is that every shot and/or save is subject to probabilities, and probabilities are cumulative.
So sure, De Gea may be "expected" to save a particular shot, but that just means the probability was high. Let's say he had a 90% chance of saving each shot, then each one has a 10% chance of going in. Stack 11 of those on top of one another and suddenly the probability of saving them all is actually very small. That's why it was an amazing performance.
What? Do you understand what "chance" means? The Cambridge English dictionary defines it as "an occasion that allows something to be done" while the Oxford Dictionaries define it as "a possibility of something happening". Winks had a great CHANCE to score a goal or to assist a teammate.
Do you think that when a striker is through on goal, one on one and gets tackled in the last minute or the keeper gets the ball off his feet, that doesn't count as a goalscoring opportunity? Because, well, that's an incredibly stupid view to have.
I think we can take teams like Arsenal or Chelsea, we've proved that we can do it now by beating Spurs away. PSG however, "that is another cook" as LvG would say. They simply have a better team than we do. It's hard to imagine us stopping the likes of Neymar, Cavani, Di Maria and Mbappe with our current defence. If only we could get in a proper commanding CB to partner Lindelof before then..
Haha!
Actually it a possibility or probability of anything happening.
That still doesn't apply to football or how the stats are correlated. Stats show zero shots on goal hence Winks didn't have a chance at goal since it wasn't his intention.
He had a chance to pass which he did but nothing came of it but there was no chance at goal. Again, if someone had got a foot or toe to it then it would be a chance to score a goal or in footballing terms, 'a shot on goal'. Winks' 'chance' didn't even record at a shot at goal.
In football terms no. If the striker takes a shot and that gets blocked, it's marked as a blocked shot not even as a shot on goal i.e. a chance to score. If a keeper saves it i.e. like De Gea did, then it's a shot on goal and that would be a good chance to score. If the shot goes wide or over then it a missed chance.
Your view is naive.
I think you confuse chance with shot. I'd say it's understandable but it really isn't.
The Spurs onslaught has not started when Lloris saved from Pogba. I would say it was the turning point. That would have made it 2-0 to us. It was as good as any save DeGea made against Spurs. Yes he made one save like that while David made a few more good saves.
That would be panic and not thinking, reverting back to the last couple of seasons. It takes a while to readjust and get the new tactics in your brain all the while
Spurs are very very talented attacking side, and when they had the ball specially at the second half they were so much better, but football is about winning and I'm happy to take the win over anything, at least now we can give good teams a go, we can play our style against anyone. PSG will be a very difficult ask for Ole specially with our current defense but don't underestimate us, we can hurt them too and who knows.
Arse up next, if we want to earn some silverware, we need to do the business on Friday.
We need some big win to set us up for PSG. Beat Arsenal and Liverpool and we shouldn't fear anybody.
Not sure it’ll be a full team considering we play Burnley on Tuesday.
Saying that though Sanchez / Lukaku / mata aren’t bad replacements. Tricky to know what to do, but right now catching the league is important.
Much as I love Ole and hope he stays I feel that the dynamics of the modern game demand a more high profile manager to attract the type of player we need to make that leap forward. Amazingly, I have been wrong before.
I don't have any worried about us attracting top players. United will always do so and if anything it is more dependent on our success than our manager. It's the rest that are hard to guage - long term tactical prowess, development of youth, quality in the transfer marker etc
We should go with our best team against Arsenal. Burnley at home should be a routine win even if we bring in a few players for rotation. Anyway, there is a solid 3 day gap in between which should be more than enough to recover.
It's time they think of Rashford Martial, Sanchez Lukaku pogba as threats as well. The challenge for us will be to keep the ball and win it back better before they create chances.
We were not attracting those with LVG and neither with Moyes. Mourinho 's past reputation attracted some very good players for us, we should take that into consideration.
I really want to beat Arsenal! I hope he plays a strong team. I really do think we can beat them! They looked decent against Chelsea but Chelsea looked toothless and out of ideas, I think a lot of teams could've beaten Chelsea at the weekend. Play a strong 11 and we can win that game. I'd love another win at the Emirates haha!
Under Moyes we had Kroos had agreed to the move only for the board to pull the plug. LVG we bought Martial/Di Maria, had Falcao come on loan. Not always about buying world class players as proven with Veron under Fergie. We need to start buying players who fit the profile of the club and not because some bloke on Twitter had him on Footy Manager and he scored a bagful.
Their defence is far more tragic than ours. Their win against Chelsea was overdue after their narrow defeat earlier against them during the season. Crazy match that one was.
Arsenal are there for the taking no doubt about it. We need to attack there defence from the off. Never nice to see a player get injured but Bellerin being out means they will now use Litchsteiner who is a huge downgrade. Martial should have a field day on the left hand side. With Pogba/Lingard/Rashford/Martial we have so much more goal threat then they do. This is the game so far this season that i've wanted us to win the most as the FA Cup presents a great opportunity for silverware and I just love beating Arsenal.
It'll be a hybrid team for both Arsenal and Burnley. Probably something like Bailly-Lindelof at CB - Smalling coming on as sub, and then replacing Lindelof for the Burnley game, Dalot-Valencia at FB, and then Fred in MF for both games (replacing Matic, Herrera respectively) and Lukaku-Sanchez starting both games, with one of Jesse, Martial, and Rashford taking up one of the front three positions.
And then for PSG we'll have the first choice XI out, depending on fitness and form. Hopefully Bailly gets in, or Smalling prove his fitness, so that we no longer have to play Jones., and Shaw's injury doesn't prove to be too bad. Other than that, I think we'll see the team that we had out the last two weeks.
The game against Arsenal will come down to who plays the strongest side, if both sides play similar sides to 3rd Round then I’d fancy us to win hopefully pretty comfortably, I suspect it’ll be a rotated squad that’s a bit stronger than last round for both sides.
For United maybe something like (4-2-3-1) Romero, Dalot Jones Lindelof Young, Herrera Fred, Sanchez, Pogba Mata, Lukaku. Front 3 Very likely to be Rotating in think, back been 4 hard to predict on a game to game basis for years now, I’d like Matic in there but he’s 30 & I think likely to play against Burnley on Tuesday, Pogba & Lindelof in there to continue his good form & show that United are taking this seriously, for as good/bad they’ve been or whether we’d like them to play this game Fred, Sanchez, Lukaku, Mata need minutes & unless it’s Quarter-Finals or later the FA Cup it’s always going to be used for a bit of rotating despite opponent.
Maybe questions as to how Emery will approach the FA Cup being in his 1st Season in England by all accounts the Copa Del Rey & Coupe de France aren’t nearly as prestigious as the FA Cup.
Here’s hoping to 8 in a row & a 2nd away win over a ‘Top 6’ side in a row! I’m sure if we do, the media will still find ways of telling us how ‘easy’ it’s been for Ole & anyone could have done it.
For United maybe something like (4-2-3-1) Romero, Dalot Jones Lindelof Young, Herrera Fred, Sanchez, Pogba Mata, Lukaku. Front 3 Very likely to be Rotating in think, back been 4 hard to predict on a game to game basis for years now, I’d like Matic in there but he’s 30 & I think likely to play against Burnley on Tuesday, Pogba & Lindelof in there to continue his good form & show that United are taking this seriously, for as good/bad they’ve been or whether we’d like them to play this game Fred, Sanchez, Lukaku, Mata need minutes & unless it’s Quarter-Finals or later the FA Cup it’s always going to be used for a bit of rotating despite opponent.
Maybe questions as to how Emery will approach the FA Cup being in his 1st Season in England by all accounts the Copa Del Rey & Coupe de France aren’t nearly as prestigious as the FA Cup.
Here’s hoping to 8 in a row & a 2nd away win over a ‘Top 6’ side in a row! I’m sure if we do, the media will still find ways of telling us how ‘easy’ it’s been for Ole & anyone could have done it.
The team looked dead on their feet the last 20 minutes, I'm worried we will burn ourselves out if we play 3 games in 11 days with the same team.
They'll use the young kid Ainsley-Niles? he's very quick but obviously inexperienced. I can't see them using Lichsteiner as he was awful last game.
When we beat Arse, it's just Arse with an awful defense. When we beat PSG it'll be that they're missing a midfield and Neymar is in poor form. When we beat Liverpool it's because of wind and long grass. I'm guessing we'll have to beat all of them including City for Ole to finally get some recognition. I really think we could do it too, if we got Koulibaly..
Koulibaly, a Matic replacement, a RW and a RB and I wouldn't bet against us.