What is Ole doing!

[Teja]

There's a time for creating tactics threads, but not after a loss in the CL to Young Boys

Thread's a trainwreck at this point, I suggest closing and reopening during the international break or something when everyone has calmed down.

 

[He'sRaldo]

individual brilliance when we win - can’t be Ole’s tactics, has to be individuals when we win. But don’t talk to me about individual errors when we lose, because in that situation it must be ole’s fault

That's the whole point. Win or lose, most of it rests on individuals. The input from the coaching staff is limited. The issue is that some can only see it when we lose due to individual mistakes, but never the other way around.

In terms of coaching impact, Bruno/Pogba/Greenwood pulling something out of their arse to get a goal is no different than Lingard making a terrible backpass to cost a goal. And that's why some of us are consistent in our complaints about the issue; win, lose, or draw.

 

[Dve]

I think the style he wants to play doesn't suit the personnel we have if honest. We don't have enough workers in the midfield engine room, there is too much reliance on flair players to produce but when the opposition get the ball those same players are not adept at pressing.
Part of me is wondering if we should look at playing a 4-4-2 diamond with Ronaldo up top and Bruno directly behind him and then a more narrow midfield triangle, a bit like Zidane did with Ronaldo.
Or even an aggressive 3-5-2 with plenty of bodies in the middle of the pitch?

You seem to have forgotten that we are top of the league and joint with City, scoring more goals than any other team in the PL. One loss with 10 men away in Europe, and we need to start from scratch? I think not.

 

[Real Name]

There is no other way to describe a man completely out of his depth and his loyalist supporters blinded by his love.
This is a guy who couldn't have landed a job in Championship on his own merit, got the reins of one of the biggest clubs in world on a platter.

Even you and I wouldn't do much worse with the talent at his disposal.

OK that's even more silly and childish.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

You really don't see bigger picture there, don't you? That is his main and only plan; go there and improvise. That is why we can't create a chance against organised teams.
The way how he leads United, any manager from division 3 to PL can do. Throw in biggest names and "play football lads". Ffs, how many proof do you people need?
4 years in charge. Top players signed. And we were still dominated by YB, Wolves and Saints without creating decent chances.

This is becoming total farce. Seriously, do you people support FC Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or Man Utd?

The level of excuses he gets made for him is starting to get ridiculous. We have a world class squad & we have been outplayed by 2 average teams & 1 shit team. So far this season we have 1 & a half good performances. It was the same most of last season, dog shit performance with zero cohesion & no plan whatsoever saved by a piece of brilliance by an individual.

 

[Real Name]

The level of excuses he gets made for him is starting to get ridiculous. We have a world class squad & we have been outplayed by 2 average teams & 1 shit team. So far this season we have 1 & a half good performances. It was the same most of last season, dog shit performance with zero cohesion & no plan whatsoever saved by a piece of brilliance by an individual.

So I guess there was tons of individual brilliance last year?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

So I guess there was tons of individual brilliance last year?

Erm.. yeah?

Do you think Ole is a good coach? Honestly? Do you think fans of Bayern, PSG, Madrid, City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc would clamour for him at their club? You already know the answer. Everyone knows the answer. He’s a nice guy I get it but let’s not delude ourselves. He will cost us in plenty of games this season.

There is a reason fans of our rivals celebrated his new deal.

 

[Real Name]

He gets his starting tactics a lot more frequently than not, but his in game management needs to improve.

As I have said previously he sets the team up with a set structure and basic instructions, but delegates to the players to make in game micro-adjustments to come out on top. It's a mimic of what Fergie did.

If he can start getting the in-game calls right in the big games, and win a trophy I reckon success could compound on itself because he's doing most other things well and sometimes its just the extra belief that wins a game. Its a big season for him. He needs to win something.

Thank you for some sense in the sea of kneejeerking.

 

[Real Name]

Erm.. yeah?

Do you think Ole is a good coach? Honestly? Do you think fans of Bayern, PSG
,Madrid, City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc would clamour for him at their club?

Football is not that simple that a team finished 2nd in the league all thanks to just individual brilliance and luck. Thats my answer. We had a good team last year but not that good that they did it all thanks to their individual brilliance.

I already said what I think of him in this thread and what needs to improve. And yet some of you are dishing one hyperbole after another like he's the worst manager in 4 leagues of English football or any manager would set up United like he does across the English football. I don't know why it can't be discussed without so many silly takes as those

Don't get me started on PE teacher stuff. Why stop there, why not call him Gollum like rival fans do.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Football is not that simple that a team finished 2nd in the league all thanks to just individual brilliance and luck. Thats my answer. We had a good team last year but not that good that they did it all thanks to their individual brilliance.

I already said what I think of him in this thread and what needs to improve. And yet some of you are dishing one hyperbole after another like he's the worst manager in 4 leagues of English football or any manager would set up United like he does across the English football. I don't know why it can't be discussed without so many silly takes as those

Don't get me started on PE teacher stuff. Why stop there, why not call him Gollum like rival fans do.

Ok, how about this.

If Real Madrid sack Ancelotti, and they have a choice of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel & Ole. Which one can you be 100% absolutely certain they aren’t approaching?

You know the answer.

I’m not saying he’s a PE teacher or the worst manager in Europe or whatever. Im saying he isn’t good enough to take this team where it has the ability to go. My point is, we know he isn’t anywhere near the best in class, so why on earth is he here? If we had an elite manager we would have a real shot in the league & CL. With Ole, deep down everyone knows, we don’t.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Ok, how about this.

If Real Madrid sack Ancelotti, and they have a choice of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel & Ole. Which one can you be 100% absolutely certain they aren’t approaching?

You know the answer.

Since it's Real Madrid, of course, we know the answer: Pep.

 

[Jibbs]

Ok, how about this.

If Real Madrid sack Ancelotti, and they have a choice of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel & Ole. Which one can you be 100% absolutely certain they aren’t approaching?

You know the answer.

I’m not saying he’s a PE teacher or the worst manager in Europe or whatever. Im saying he isn’t good enough to take this team where it has the ability to go. My point is, we know he isn’t anywhere near the best in class, so why on earth is he here? If we had an elite manager we would have a real shot in the league & CL. With Ole, deep down everyone knows, we don’t.

We have a thinking manager in Conte available at the moment, but I am sure we will miss the bus and continue with the dross.

I get it why there is so much support for Ole in the media, as it is dominated by class of 92, Ole makes it possible for all these ex players to maintain their clout over the club and keep themselves relevant. You do not see this happening at any other well run club in EPL.

 

[VidaRed]

Ole should have gone 4-4-1
------------------------DDG------------------------
--Dalot---Varane---Maguire---Shaw--
--Mason----Matic----Fred----Sancho--
---------------------Ronaldo---------------------

 

[Real Name]

Ok, how about this.

If Real Madrid sack Ancelotti, and they have a choice of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel & Ole. Which one can you be 100% absolutely certain they aren’t approaching?

You know the answer.

I’m not saying he’s a PE teacher or the worst manager in Europe or whatever. Im saying he isn’t good enough to take this team where it has the ability to go. My point is, we know he isn’t anywhere near the best in class, so why on earth is he here? If we had an elite manager we would have a real shot in the league & CL. With Ole, deep down everyone knows, we don’t.

OK I get it after you wrote basically the same post in different ways 3 times already. Klopp, Tuchel, Pep.

You don't think he's the worst manager but your posts sound like Ole is just a mascot who just tells the players to go on and have fun and boy did our players have fun last year.

 

[fergieisold]

“Do some Hollywood shit” perfectly sums up his tenure here. Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood, and so on, so many of our goals scored have been a result of one of those players trying some “Hollywood shit”

So now we want a manager that doesn’t want their best players to produce good football to decide games. I don’t know where to start with this one

 

[Real Name]

We have a thinking manager in Conte available at the moment, but I am sure we will miss the bus and continue with the dross.

I get it why there is so much support for Ole in the media, as it is dominated by class of 92, Ole makes it possible for all these ex players to maintain their clout over the club and keep themselves relevant. You do not see this happening at any other well run club in EPL.

There are about 3 or 4 of class of 92 players in the media and not every week and they have been critical of Ole few times. Media is dominated by ex Liverpool players so I think you missed with that one.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I refuse to believe this squad is not good enough to win either EPL or even CL. United has the most squad depth of all teams, yet we have a PE teacher for a manager. Compare him with Pep, Klopp and Tuchel and it becomes evidently clear this guy wouldn't win a thing with prime Xavi and Iniesta in the side.
His fanboys and class of 92 friends in media will still big him up and shift the blame elsewhere. I wish United board had the acumen and decisiveness of Chelsea.

That's a total lie.

City, Chelsea and Bayern all have more depth in the 2 competitions you have mentioned. Not to mention Liverpool now have their whole squad back.

 

[Denis79]

The decision to park the bus against Young Boys, from 35 mins on was shocking. Taking off DVB, Bruno and Ronaldo. Terrible. Shocking choices. But more than that, he wasn't able to motivate the players on the pitch. Any other team in the same situation City, Liverpool or Chelsea. They would go on to win that game 2 or 3 nil. We threw the towel in.

Completely agree, It was like he had no idea what to do when they equalized. We let them in, we removed all our threat going forward and allowed them to commit even more men in attack, very poorly and strangely done by Ole.

 

[Dve]

I refuse to believe this squad is not good enough to win either EPL or even CL. United has the most squad depth of all teams, yet we have a PE teacher for a manager. Compare him with Pep, Klopp and Tuchel and it becomes evidently clear this guy wouldn't win a thing with prime Xavi and Iniesta in the side.
His fanboys and class of 92 friends in media will still big him up and shift the blame elsewhere. I wish United board had the acumen and decisiveness of Chelsea.

In September already? Wow. High demands.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

We have a thinking manager in Conte available at the moment, but I am sure we will miss the bus and continue with the dross.

I get it why there is so much support for Ole in the media, as it is dominated by class of 92, Ole makes it possible for all these ex players to maintain their clout over the club and keep themselves relevant. You do not see this happening at any other well run club in EPL.

How many times/threads do you want to use the CO92 argument (or say fanboys)?

Can you not make a post without pissing on the manager or any poster/pundit who says positive things?

Surely if you're so sure Ole's shit, you can clearly list all the reasons why and in a mannered post?

And presumably, if we play well against someone (let's say West Ham this weekend), you'll also post the positives?

 

[padzilla]

You seem to have forgotten that we are top of the league and joint with City, scoring more goals than any other team in the PL. One loss with 10 men away in Europe, and we need to start from scratch? I think not.

We also have not played anybody we couldn't have expected to have comfortably beaten and bar the Leeds game, we haven't put in a completely dominant display.
In fact against Young Boys, Southampton and Wolves we were largely disjointed and second-best for long spells, even against Newcastle we looked far from convincing for long periods and two goalkeeping howlers from them changed the game largely.
We are still no closer to putting in consistently dominant displays against teams we should be battering out of sight.
To give Ole credit he has recruited well, by and large, and we are in a better position than when he took over but I can't help but feel he doesn't have what it takes to get us over the line and make us PL or CL champions again.
If anything he might be better suited to a role upstairs as a director of football type but in terms of getting the team performing to the level required he seems someway short.

 

[::sonny::]

I have never seen a manager who is always talking with his assistants

I think he asks them a suggestion of what to do

Tactically all the decisions are made by mckenna

Other coaches stuff are on Phelan

 

[Dve]

Erm.. yeah?

Do you think Ole is a good coach? Honestly? Do you think fans of Bayern, PSG, Madrid, City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc would clamour for him at their club? You already know the answer. Everyone knows the answer. He’s a nice guy I get it but let’s not delude ourselves. He will cost us in plenty of games this season.

There is a reason fans of our rivals celebrated his new deal.

Please remind me where we sit in the league and how many teams have scored more than us. I´m getting confused.

 

[Real Name]

I have never seen a manager who is always talking with his assistants

I think he asks them a suggestion of what to do

Tactically all the decisions are made by mckenna

Other coaches stuff are on Phelan

Nice assumptions based on absolutely nothing. And managers talk to assistants all the time, that's what they're for, not for throwing towels..
You should watch more games in general it seems.

 

[Andycoleno9]

OK I get it after you wrote basically the same post in different ways 3 times already. Klopp, Tuchel, Pep.

You don't think he's the worst manager but your posts sound like Ole is just a mascot who just tells the players to go on and have fun and boy did our players have fun last year.

Oh boy, yes they did. Winning top 4 trophy is always top stuff.

 

[devilish]

Ole is not as tactically inept as most make him to be but there's no denying that tactically he's weak. For example playing with a high line with Maguire as the most advanced option is kind of stupid. The guy lack the pace to track back which means that he often gets involved into these 50-50 decisions that will either make him look good or stupid. Against young boys Ole switched ended up switching to a 3 men CBs system. That was a mistake as it clearly showed that defense wasn't drilled to that system at all. He should have kept the 4 men defense by bringing in Varane for Ronaldo and then move Lindelof as RB. Meanwhile Dalot should have been brought in instead of Sancho. Pogba would have moved on the left (a role he knows how to play), VDB and Fred would have taken CM, Bruno would have moved into a false 9 system, Dalot would have moved as a defensive RW with Lindelof (RB), Varane and Maguire and Shaw in defence. That system would allowed the team not to change too much from the initial formation and would have provided ample flexibility/cover. If Young boys went wide then Lindelof and Shaw would be assisted by Dalot and Pogba in midfield. If they went narrow then Pogba would move narrow and Bruno would go deep

Another mistake done by tactically weak managers (ex Southgate) is to expect defenses to soak all the pressure. It doesn't work that way. Midfield should take a major role in slower the game and dictate tempo. Defense and the forward line should help of course by closing gaps and add bodies in midfield when they can however the 'siege' should mostly happen in midfield not in defense. That's because waves upon waves will increase the chances of making mistakes and you would want those mistakes to happen as far away as possible from goal as possible.

As said multiple times, if Ole needs to make things work then he needs to surround with experienced coaches who know what winning is all about. Having just Phelan as mentor is a bit too little.

 

[Dve]

We also have not played anybody we couldn't have expected to have comfortably beaten and bar the Leeds game, we haven't put in a completely dominant display.
In fact against Young Boys, Southampton and Wolves we were largely disjointed and second-best for long spells, even against Newcastle we looked far from convincing for long periods and two goalkeeping howlers from them changed the game largely.
We are still no closer to putting in consistently dominant displays against teams we should be battering out of sight.
To give Ole credit he has recruited well, by and large, and we are in a better position than when he took over but I can't help but feel he doesn't have what it takes to get us over the line and make us PL or CL champions again.
If anything he might be better suited to a role upstairs as a director of football type but in terms of getting the team performing to the level required he seems someway short.

Hard to beat teams you haven´t played.

He will - and should - only be judged by the results, mate. Second last year, since then, he´s added Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane, and currently sits top of the league. Can´t argue with that.

 

[Real Name]

Oh boy, yes they did. Winning top 4 trophy is always top stuff.

That's the childish and silly posts I'm talking about. Thank you for your contribution.
If you're interested in a mature, normal conversation I'm here.

 

[Jibbs]

That's a total lie.

City, Chelsea and Bayern all have more depth in the 2 competitions you have mentioned. Not to mention Liverpool now have their whole squad back.

Liverpool and City hardly have any squad depth compared to United, Both these teams would struggle to finish top 6 under Ole.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

OK I get it after you wrote basically the same post in different ways 3 times already. Klopp, Tuchel, Pep.

You don't think he's the worst manager but your posts sound like Ole is just a mascot who just tells the players to go on and have fun and boy did our players have fun last year.

No they don’t. You have to entirely missed the point. Why does it have to be Ole is great or Ole is a PE teacher? Why can’t we just call it what it is, Ole is decent, but he’s not good enough.

I brought up those 3 managers because those are our title rivals & my point was we are going to be hindered in the title race because we have a vastly inferior manager to our rivals.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

So now we want a manager that doesn’t want their best players to produce good football to decide games. I don’t know where to start with this one

Point well & truly missed.

 

[Jibbs]

There are about 3 or 4 of class of 92 players in the media and not every week and they have been critical of Ole few times. Media is dominated by ex Liverpool players so I think you missed with that one.

It is not just class of 92, there's Rio, Hargreaves and Evra … all of them reap the benefit of their association with United, and continue with their circus. With absolute zero benefit for the club, but it seems that they all are influential enough to affect the club negatively.

 

[sp_107]

Ole's chmpion league record -4 wins and lost 7 out of 11 matches ...No problem, this will be 16 wins and 7 losses by end of this season

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Another mistake done by tactically weak managers (ex Southgate) is to expect defenses to soak all the pressure. It doesn't work that way. Midfield should take a major role in slower the game and dictate tempo. Defense and the forward line should help of course by closing gaps and add bodies in midfield when they can however the 'siege' should mostly happen in midfield not in defense. That's because waves upon waves will increase the chances of making mistakes and you would want those mistakes to happen as far away as possible from goal as possible.

As said multiple times, if Ole needs to make things work then he needs to surround with experienced coaches who know what winning is all about. Having just Phelan as mentor is a bit too little.

Some people will choose to overlook this, because of the "tactically weak" label you're applying, but, for me, this was the biggest concern from yesterday's performance. I can understand the mitigating circumstances, but it's criminal to just sit back and hope for the best in today's football. And Southgate, due to NT football not being played at the same level of intensity or tactics as club football, may get his lucky break. Nowadays, at club football, the days when you could just park the bus and snatch enough victories to win major honours are long gone. The vast majority of teams have a plan to hurt you, if you allow them to have the ball. It's basically what has destroyed Mourinho's career at this level, his insistence on believing that the opposition will self-destruct, if you surrender possession to them and wait for them in your third. In contrast to Southgate, Italy's transformation under Mancini was miraculous. They looked like potential winners right from their opening game.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Liverpool and City hardly have any squad depth compared to United, Both these teams would struggle to finish top 6 under Ole.

Obviously a WUM.

 

[Lash]

No they don’t. You have to entirely missed the point. Why does it have to be Ole is great or Ole is a PE teacher? Why can’t we just call it what it is, Ole is decent, but he’s not good enough.

I brought up those 3 managers because those are our title rivals & my point was we are going to be hindered in the title race because we have a vastly inferior manager to our rivals.

Well mainly because you come out after an obviously bad result to back up your narrative and considering we're 5 games into the season, you have no idea if he is or not yet.

 

[devilish]

Some people will choose to overlook this, because of the "tactically weak" label you're applying, but, for me, this was the biggest concern from yesterday's performance. I can understand the mitigating circumstances, but it's criminal to just sit back and hope for the best in today's football. And Southgate, due to NT football not being played at the same level of intensity or tactics as club football, may get his lucky break. Nowadays, at club football, the days when you could just park the bus and snatch enough victories to win major honours are long gone. The vast majority of teams have a plan to hurt you, if you allow them to have the ball. It's basically what has destroyed Mourinho's career at this level, his insistence on believing that the opposition will self-destruct, if you surrender possession to them and wait for them in your third. In contrast to Southgate, Italy's transformation under Mancini was miraculous. They looked like potential winners right from their opening game.

We're not even parking the bus correctly. If we wanted to do that then we should have taken the battle in midfield. We should have gone in a 4-4-1 system with Bruno as a false striker, Pogba as a LW/Mezzala, VDB and Fred in midfield and Dalot as RW. At their back we would have had Shaw, Varane, Maguire and Lindelof. That team could adapt to anything young boys could throw at them. If they went wide (as Ole hinted) then Dalot and Pogba would have assisted Lindelof and Shaw and Bruno would have gone a bit deeper to help out if needed. If they went narrow then Lindelof would have moved more centrally, Dalot would have slotted in Lindelof place, Pogba would have moved more centrally with Shaw taking all the LW/LB duties with Varane or Maguire helping him. You can have the best defense in the world but wave upon wave will finally break them. Which is why AC Milan of the late 80s and early 90s had people like Rijkaard, Ancelotti and Albertini in midfield.

There's potential in Ole. He's a great man manager and he understand the club. However he needs to accept help coaching wise and tactically.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Well mainly because you come out after an obviously bad result to back up your narrative and considering we're 5 games into the season, you have no idea if he is or not yet.

What narrative? The narrative of wanting us to win trophies?

5 games? So do we just ignore his prior 2 & a half seasons?

 

[Lash]

What narrative? The narrative of wanting us to win trophies?

5 games? So do we just ignore his prior 2 & a half seasons?

It's clear you've made your mind up, so you're not actually interested in any real objective discussion on it, your just aligning everything that happens with your already held view. Ie after one bad result, further reinforcement of your already held view, when one result isn't the measure of success.

Of course not, but we've had the best window in probably the last decade and I think a fairer assessment on whether we will win trophies is maybe when we have a squad capable of doing so (there's no arguing that's the case now) if he does or not. Yes I think we should have won the EL, but it went down to a coin toss, so I'm willing to believe we potentially can and should go one further this year and win something.

 

[devilish]

It's clear you've made your mind up, so you're not actually interested in any real objective discussion on it, your just aligning everything that happens with your already held view. Ie after one bad result, further reinforcement of your already held view, when one result isn't the measure of success.

Of course not, but we've had the best window in probably the last decade and I think a fairer assessment on whether we will win trophies is maybe when we have a squad capable of doing so (there's no arguing that's the case now) if he does or not. Yes I think we should have won the EL, but it went down to a coin toss, so I'm willing to believe we potentially can and should go one further this year and win something.

it shouldn't have been a toss coin though. We had a far better squad then them and yet we ended up on penalties. These things are happening on a regular basis. Villareal, Wolves (they should have annihilated us), Young boys etc. We might be winning games but luck often helped more then it should have done and our tactics are abysmal.