So what's the point of sacking mourinho if the next manager cant get better than 6th? Are we guaranteed to win the league in 3 years if we persist with being shit this season and next season?
What is the absolute minimum that United should achieve next season?
- Thread starter fastwalker
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I'm not sure we've got enough evidence yet that sacking Mourinho was the right thing to do. It seems obvious the players aren't good enough to me.
Not correct, they got no considerations. LVG made it past his first season because he made top 4, second season 5th and an Fa Cup win (Sacked). Jose made it past his first season due to Europa win allowing CL qualification, if it was just 6th place and a league cup Jose would of been gone that year also. So in reality there's no leeway if you miss top 4 having started the season unlike Ole who came in half way through. That's not to say he wont be fired too if top 4 isn't in the bag next season.
If the Glazers were willing to put the money into the rebuild . Then we should be challenging. If not, then another season 6/7th.
Realistically, top 4...but even that will be a struggle without quality signings. Leicester, Everton and Wolves are breathing heavy
I'm sure Ole will be targeting top 4 this season, but it won't be easy to get there. It's likely a 4 way battle for 2 spots as it was last season. I think getting CL qualification is the right place to set the bar, although in truth the football was so dire last season that if we were to finish 5th or 6th but play an attractive and attacking style I may accept that. As long as the rebuild continues and more signings are made at the end of the season.
Long term, the goal must always be to win titles, but you've got to have a realistic look at our short term situation and understand we're nowhere near that. It'll take at least 3 years to mount a challenge and that's if we make the right signings, which frankly I'm not confident about.
Long term, the goal must always be to win titles, but you've got to have a realistic look at our short term situation and understand we're nowhere near that. It'll take at least 3 years to mount a challenge and that's if we make the right signings, which frankly I'm not confident about.
Top 6 is a realistic goal. Sacking Solskjaer should only be considered if United fall out of the top 6. Top 4 would be quite a feat, but it's unlikely and it's unreasonable to put that sort of expectation on the squad. What people must understand is that a football club is not the exact same thing as its squad, and it's squad quality that determines the sporting achievement of the club. While United should easily be in the top 4 given their history and revenue, it's currently not a reasonable expectation because the squad quality isn't there, and this is what determines the sporting achievement. As long as United don't have a top 4 squad, the blame is not on the manager when United don't achieve top 4. The blame falls on the board.
I accept 6th if there's a special case of having 5 promising under 21 academy that shows promises, fought tooth and nail and fall short of 4th. I accept 6th if we're overhauling the backroom coach. I accept 6th if we're being ruthless and booted the deadwood and forced our hands to play our youngster. I accept 6th if it means young jones smailing rojo martial sanchez being moved on and we endure 1 season of being understaffed while trying to find the right player.
Simply finishing 6th while playing the same old dross of young n co doesn't merit anything. It serves no purpose. Simply finishing 6th with same old problems of martial rashford pogba lingard stinking the place is a sackable offence
Show me something that makes me accept finishing 6th, not the other way around finishing 6th and hiding behind the we cant do better than 6th. You might ended up 6th but i want to see what changes to give ole another season, real tangible changes, not some cliche of wait till he gets his own squad
We have top 4 squad though. We finished 2nd wiht practically the same squad that finished 6th.
Top four is the absolute minimum we should expect. The lack of transfers is worrying but I think they will come. I'm very disappointed that we do not already have the majority of them sorted in time for the start of pre season but I think they will come. I'm not buying the rumours about the measly 100 million budget, I just think we are unorganised and inept and I'm fecking sick of it too but we will improve and get top four. Chelsea and Arsenal are in a worse spot than us despite finishing the season in better form and I'm not buying this horseshit about Leicester and Everton overtaking us. Stop being so bloody dramatic.
You never know what's going to happen in the transfer window but currently we aren't a top 4 team.
If we have the same team at the start of the season as we do now, the only hope we'd have is if one of our big money let downs like Sanchez or Lukaku suddenly finds form. That is James turns out to be the Welsh Messi.
If we have the same team at the start of the season as we do now, the only hope we'd have is if one of our big money let downs like Sanchez or Lukaku suddenly finds form. That is James turns out to be the Welsh Messi.
Chelsea will have the same squad as last year minus Hazard plus a much less experienced manager. Even if we do nothing to improve our squad we should overtake them by virtue of them having taken a few steps backwards.
These issue's should have been immediately addressed following the sacking of Moyes, now in 2019 we're talking about a 3 year rebuild which should have been achieved post Moyes. It's going to be a decade minimum then before we're considered big boys again. Heavily dependant on whether the board make further errors or not, it could be as long as its been for Liverpool if we're not careful..
Top 6 my ass.
Other then City and Lpool we have the best Squad!
Chelsea lost their top player.
Arsenal are wank.
Top 4 is a MUST!
Can you imagine calling this lot the 3rd best squad in the league? More than a few key players would struggle to get into mid and lower table teams. Backups are laughed off as reliable Premier League talent.
We must keep Kansai Paint, Militta and Milly happy. Our electrical styling partner - Remington - should also be appeased. Cup Noodles are fairly content at the moment, but you never know when they will become uneasy with our business model.
Perhaps it is time to really grab the scruff by the neck and go huge with another Chinese partner? Well - one can hope, right?
Perhaps it is time to really grab the scruff by the neck and go huge with another Chinese partner? Well - one can hope, right?
Leicester won the league. Our average league position for the last 6 seasons is 5th.
At last something different from transfer discussion. I think we should not worry too much about the points or position.
Next season is all about creating an identity, inventing a style of play and then giving it a real go. We all know how pool and city play, I know it took them time but it has to start somewhere and I hope that will be the case this coming season.
For once I don't want to see the deflated souls crumbling when the going gets tough. I hope we see players giving their all for the badge fighting till the last minute.
At last I want to see the youth given ample time so that can help their progress. I hope that will also result in high energy performances and will help in freshening the squad.
Next season is all about creating an identity, inventing a style of play and then giving it a real go. We all know how pool and city play, I know it took them time but it has to start somewhere and I hope that will be the case this coming season.
For once I don't want to see the deflated souls crumbling when the going gets tough. I hope we see players giving their all for the badge fighting till the last minute.
At last I want to see the youth given ample time so that can help their progress. I hope that will also result in high energy performances and will help in freshening the squad.
I want to see a modern style of football that we dont deviate from even if we lose some ugly games or end up being in 8th place as long as you can see a team that will be great in some years with the correct additions. Now, if United as a club can show patience and Ole has a clear plan... well, that remains to be seen. But these days, «attacking with speed, and working hard» will not be enough, Ole. The evil circle of having to reach top 4 at all costs has to stop. Basically , I dream about a Klopp-Liverpool-story, where u can sell a star player without the team even noticing it and where squad players like Milner can still be useful. Oh my... im dreaming , sorry
First things first, winning the International Champions Cup, the jewel preseason cups.
That's true actually - I think they well struggle massively without Hazard. We will be scrapping tooth and nail for that 4th spot with them and Ars then!
Top half finish.
Top four. No question. Plus a trophy - any one will do.
Absolute nonsense. United's squad is vastly inferior to Spurs', slightly worse than Chelsea's and a little better than Arsenal's if Pogba and De Gea stay.
The biggest thing for me is to see the improvement on the field. When Klopp took over Liverpool they didn't get the results but you could see what they were trying to achieve. In year two they got better but still finished behind us and still took a step forward from the previous year. Now they are one of the top teams in Europe. Ok....I've been talking about Liverpool in a positive manner for too long now. Need to go throw up...
This
Sign another player
Just 4th at this stage. But with our current window we coming sixth.
Need a CB RB CM to be in with a shout for 4th.
To guarantee it and actually try be a good team we need to add a CDM and a RW to that.
Need a CB RB CM to be in with a shout for 4th.
To guarantee it and actually try be a good team we need to add a CDM and a RW to that.
Based on the Huddersfield and Cardiff performances last season, the minimum requirement from United next season is staying the PL... and I'm not joking! I remember the 'too good to go down' season in 1973/74, the Denis Law back-heel and all that... still have nightmares of that season.
I'm not bothered if Ole is a good manager or will become a great manager, right now I want him to be a 'lucky manager'.
I'm not bothered if Ole is a good manager or will become a great manager, right now I want him to be a 'lucky manager'.
Let's revisit this thread in late August when the window closes.
But historically and sustainability-wise -- the minimum we need is to be targeting a top 4 slot but the reality will be different as we need to bed in the new players of which there may be 3-4. A new style in our approach etc.
More critically, we need patience.
Looking at the Big Picture -- It looks like Woodward is investing in the long term judging by the two very young kids so far coming in (and if Bruno's next.) No galacticos or knee-jerk purchases.
So, I can't see Woodward jumping the gun by pulling the trigger on Ole if the results go badly next year ie mid-table like an 8th or 9th position. Besides, he will need Ole to be around if anything to be his lightning rod for all his failures of the past. He will be seriously exposed if he sacks Ole.
So we can give Ole a free pass next season if anything just so the folks here can stop moaning about him whenever we lose a game.
Its the season after, 2020-2021 that we need to start judging Ole ie the proverbial three transfer window pass.
But historically and sustainability-wise -- the minimum we need is to be targeting a top 4 slot but the reality will be different as we need to bed in the new players of which there may be 3-4. A new style in our approach etc.
More critically, we need patience.
Looking at the Big Picture -- It looks like Woodward is investing in the long term judging by the two very young kids so far coming in (and if Bruno's next.) No galacticos or knee-jerk purchases.
So, I can't see Woodward jumping the gun by pulling the trigger on Ole if the results go badly next year ie mid-table like an 8th or 9th position. Besides, he will need Ole to be around if anything to be his lightning rod for all his failures of the past. He will be seriously exposed if he sacks Ole.
So we can give Ole a free pass next season if anything just so the folks here can stop moaning about him whenever we lose a game.
Its the season after, 2020-2021 that we need to start judging Ole ie the proverbial three transfer window pass.
Win the Europa League or Top Four or sacked!
Top 4 with an actual sense of some sort of playing identity being implemented.
Winning Europa (and/or other cups) would be a bonus.
Winning Europa (and/or other cups) would be a bonus.
The only thing I'll be looking at this season is the style of play. If it seems like we are growing an identity and some balls in the way we play, I don't care about the results. I want to feel like the team is well coached. If the results somehow don't go our way but we continue improving in our play, that's fine. I'm guessing we will finish 4-6th. That should be a decent season all things considered.
The bare minimum is a season like LVG's first season in terms of results: finished in top 4, played good football at least for some spells (especially the Spring of 15), beat top teams.
A decent Sporting Director would be a good beginning.
I understand some people still being in the mentality of 'we have to progress quickly, top 4 then challenging for the title' etc. However, I think this is farfetch'd at the moment because we're too far behind and City/Liverpool don't look like slowing down any time soon. My opinion is that we could spend £500m+ over the next two seasons and I'd probably expect us to finish 3rd at best despite this investment. The other teams around us and above us have better and experienced managers and for the most-part better players which is going to take us a few years to catch up on. If we are looking like title winners in 2-3 years then I'd say we are overachieving and doing things ahead of schedule.
However, because Arsenal are Arsenal, Chelsea are looking at a ban and getting in a manager with even less experience than Ole... You'd have to think that 4th place is extremely attainable next season if we sign the right players and play near our best for most of the season. However, I'm very much on the side of thinking that 5th would be acceptable at this point in time (unless we invest more money in players that I think improve our first XI) and would lead to Ole getting another season at the helm. It might sound defeatist to a lot of fans who still have this 'we're Man Utd we have to be the best' mentality. I just think that's too far gone right now. I've accepted that we are poor and it's OK for a short time to be more realistic and pessimistic as long as we see improvements in the football and I can enjoy watching my team more than the last few years.
I'd take a good cup run (hopefully winning one) and finishing 4th now.
However, because Arsenal are Arsenal, Chelsea are looking at a ban and getting in a manager with even less experience than Ole... You'd have to think that 4th place is extremely attainable next season if we sign the right players and play near our best for most of the season. However, I'm very much on the side of thinking that 5th would be acceptable at this point in time (unless we invest more money in players that I think improve our first XI) and would lead to Ole getting another season at the helm. It might sound defeatist to a lot of fans who still have this 'we're Man Utd we have to be the best' mentality. I just think that's too far gone right now. I've accepted that we are poor and it's OK for a short time to be more realistic and pessimistic as long as we see improvements in the football and I can enjoy watching my team more than the last few years.
I'd take a good cup run (hopefully winning one) and finishing 4th now.
Avoiding relegation.
The only achievements required are a team willing to play for the manager and a manager with a philosophy that’s worth playing for.
We aren’t one of the top four teams in the league so can’t be judged a failure if we miss out again. The failures, as we all know, are higher up.
The only achievements required are a team willing to play for the manager and a manager with a philosophy that’s worth playing for.
We aren’t one of the top four teams in the league so can’t be judged a failure if we miss out again. The failures, as we all know, are higher up.
15 of the teams are very beatable by us - there's not much excuse not to be competing for 4th place, surely?
If our performances significantly improve but we just miss out on Top Four and a trophy I'd still back Ole to get another season.
Because at some point you have to bleeding pick a horse and stick with it.
Because at some point you have to bleeding pick a horse and stick with it.
Minimum would be 5th of course because its still progress.
We're not going to challenge the the title in the next couple of years and I'm fine with that. Get a solid plan in place, get a likeable team together, and personally that'll do for me.
We're not going to challenge the the title in the next couple of years and I'm fine with that. Get a solid plan in place, get a likeable team together, and personally that'll do for me.